Why Is My Phone Battery So Small? - DTNS WEEKEND

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2:27Welcome to a Daily Tech News Show special edition where we take a little deeper dive into a topic for you. Today, we've got James Thatcher, a.k.a. Big Jim here to tell us about battery shipping rules. And if you're like, why do I care about battery shipping rules? Well, they are keeping your phone's battery capacity from getting larger, at least if you're in the U.S. and the EU. So I asked Jim to look into this and see what he could find. As you are a logistics person, you work in the industry. Yeah, I work in international logistics. I've been doing this for well over 20 years. So what I have found is basically a lot of it comes back to the International Maritime Organization dangerous goods requirements, as well as the IACO, which is the International Air Transport Association and their IACO codes, which specifically talk about dangerous goods.

3:23So these are international, though. Yes. Well, there's also U.S. requirements that are monitored by the Department of Transportation. But I wanted to lead with international because we have an international audience, Tom. Of course. So, but yeah, no, the, the, the, the predominant force behind the U S rules and regulations is international. So anytime you travel or transport goods between two countries, you have to deal with various different IMO or IATO or I'm sorry, IATA requirements. As well as then if it's coming by rail, there's the IRB and there's a bunch of other things. And these are all things to make sure that there is safety and efficiency.

4:10This all falls back under hazardous materials, which lithium-ion batteries are definitely considered a hazardous material. If we remember back a couple of years ago where we had, well, thermal run-ons is the technical target for it. It essentially killed the Note. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we thought it killed the Note, but it didn't really. Well, we don't have the Note anymore. Well, yeah. It may have not killed it immediately, but yeah, it definitely damaged the Samsung Note brand a little bit with those fires. That was like 2016, you know, so it's been a minute. But yeah, lithium-ion batteries are volatile.

4:45Under rare but existent circumstances, they can catch fire. So you don't want that in your plane. You don't want that in your boat. So they have restrictions. What are the restrictions? So you have to keep your single cell of a phone or any lithium ion device that's integrated into a device. So cell phones, iPads, tablets, computers, et cetera. They have to stay – if it's a single cell, each single cell has to stay under 20 kilowatt hours, which takes you when you do the math to roughly 5 ,100 milliamp hours, give or take. And a single cell is not always what is in a phone, but usually when you're talking about phones, you only have one cell.

5:34Correct. Usually within phones, you have one cell. Now, OnePlus, I believe, has a dual cell that they work with. All your laptops have dual cells. Several tablets are now going into dual cells, if not triple cells, because of the rising use of them. But a lot of that then also gets into when you have a cell. Again, I'm not an engineer. I'm sure an engineer can point this out to us. But when you have a cell, you have to compartmentalize it in a certain way so that it is restricted from other cells. The big issue then becomes thermal run-on, like we saw with the Samsung Note, where the heat builds up and it basically creates a fire.

6:20and that fire can immediately spread to the other cells quickly. It's not like a regular fire as well. So normally, if you're in a cargo aircraft, I'm not even going to talk about passenger aircraft because that gets interesting, but if you're on a cargo aircraft and you're going to, you're in the middle of a flight and there might be a fire, the first thing you do is, to my understanding, is you'll trip a fire suppression system. And part of that fire suppression system will then also, you will basically depressurize the cabin. So you'll drop it down. So there's no oxygen. It's an oxygen less rich environment.

6:56And by doing that, that helps quench a fire down because you need three things for a fire. You need fuel, you need heat, and you need oxygen. Um, well, in a lithium ion, um, in a lithium ion fire, um, those items, uh, oxygen deprivation is not really a problem. It can work on very little oxygen and still, uh, burn very, very warm. So the idea then is that if you keep it to 5 ,100 milliamp hours or – or I can't remember. It's 20.5 kilowatt. It's 20 kilowatt hours. 20 kilowatt hours. Then you are reducing the intensity of a fire and making it easier to put out. Is that the theory? Well, the theory is that it is less likely that you will have a thermal run-on based upon that.

7:47So you're reducing the incidences by doing it. Correct, because as the cell size is shrunk, there's less likelihood of a rupture. And that's – to my reading and understanding, again, I'm not an engineer. I'm just going through the bags. Yeah, but that's the argument anyway. Right. Which is why your laptop can have a big battery because it's got multiple cells in there. Multiple cells in it. And each one of those cells is less likely to have thermal run-on. That all makes sense to me. Uh, it's also makes sense to me. Uh, and maybe it does or doesn't to people listening that, uh, a laptop can handle switching between multiple cells for its power source more easily than a less powerful and, uh, lighter device like a phone, which is why, again, the whole reason we're talking about this is why your phone generally doesn't go over 5 ,100 milliamp hours.

8:39because what happens if I create a 6 ,000 milliamp hour phone, right? That is above the limit. Can I just not ship it or what happens? No, no, no, no, no, no. So here's the interesting thing. Those restrictions specifically at the 20 kilowatt hour are specifically for air and ocean cargo. If you were going to, let's say, let's say we're back in the old days and we're at RIM up in Canada and we're making BlackBerrys. and for whatever reason, they're making BlackBerrys in Canada. And you're going to ship a bunch of BlackBerrys down to the US. You can use up to 60 kilowatt hours in a cell and bring it down into the US without issue, as long as it's by truck or by rail.

9:24Now, there's certain placards you have to put on it, et cetera, et cetera. But it's doable. It's doable. Now, is it more costly in that case? Oh, yeah, because your dangerous goods costs go way up because it becomes a different type of certification. And as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not a logistic expert. There are no truck or rail routes over oceans. Not yet. Okay. Working on it. I'm still waiting on Elon Musk to build my hyperrail from China to the US. I put this out there 15 years ago, and he still hasn't done it. Get off of X, Elon, and build my darn tunnel. So if I make a 10 ,000 milliamp hour battery in Guangzhou, I can sell it in Europe, but I have to send it by rail.

10:16Could I get it to North America somehow? No, you could. Yeah, okay. Now, could you get it to Europe? Europe's a different story because when I talk about the 60 kilowatt hour, that's a US restriction specifically. Ah, okay. So that's not one of the international restrictions. The EU is going to be completely different. The same thing is said in China and India. You'll see in China and India, they have much larger single cells that are for sale in those markets. And that's because those markets actually have the factories there. So it's a domestic move for them. It comes down to what their local laws and requirements are.

10:55I can tell you from my research, there are other ways you can still do this, but they become quite costly because it becomes what's called a class nine hazmat, which is the highest class you can. So if you wanted to build a phone and you wanted to have a single cell and you wanted to put 70 kilowatt hours in it for whatever reason, you can do it. But it will move it class nine cargo, which is the most expensive, most required paperwork and everything else and costly method of movement.

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14:24And then on top of that, every time that phone gets touched or sold, you have to include an entire DMG that goes along with it that talks about what happens if that item were to have a thermal run-on and all the components within it and everything else. What is a DMG? Is that something you just paperwork you file or is that in a box? So if you remember, most of us at one point or another worked in fast food or worked in a restaurant of some type. You'll know that there are for every chemical that's in that restaurant, regardless of how toxic or whatever it is, you'll have a toxic sheet or something on it that tells you if it's, you know, if you get this in your eyes, this is what you do.

15:10If it's skin exposure, this is what you do. DMG is very, very similar to that, except it's a lot thicker. and has a lot more detail as to chemical components and how things interact with one another. But would Samsung have to put that in the Galaxy box or is that just something? Yeah. So it increases the weight. Every single shipment. And when I say shipment, I'm not talking every case of phones. I'm saying every individual unit of a phone has to have this with it. And then let's say you are able to sell this phone. Right. And I have it in my pocket. Well, then I have to carry that with me everywhere I go.

15:54Because if I have an accident on the highway or if I want to get on a transport, first of all, you're not going to get on a plane. But even if you wanted to anywhere, you took it with you. You have to have that manual with you. Yeah. And they're not going to let you on the plane. So this is basically saying, yes, technically you could ship that level of a cell. but it's not practical. Right. It's too costly. Users aren't going to want to carry a DMG around with them. So that's just kind of off the table. Your other options are to make sure that you make it locally and you still have limits depending on which region you're in.

16:32And it's more expensive. So the complication of having it manufactured for a worldwide market and the cost probably is what's keeping battery size to be, generally speaking more often than not less than 6 ,000 milliamp hours or 5 ,100, I guess. 5 ,100 milliamp hours. But the other thing, I didn't say what DMG was. I just said the initial, sorry. DMG is Dangerous Materials Guide. So I need to specify what that means in case people are going to write in. But the other side of that is also, there's nothing that stops a company from having multi-cells. And I have seen, I had a OnePlus for several years and had multi-cells and it works fine.

17:18It's programmed to handle it. Now, does that programming take up a space on the hard drive? Is there a cost for that? Does it increase the weight of the phone, et cetera, et cetera? Yes. So these are just kind of things that manufacturers have to take into account. Not only that, but when you go above that 20 kilowatt hour per single cell, even if we wanted to do that, you have to do drop tests. You have to do all these other things that show certification that even if I take my phone here and I drop it, it's not going to start a thermal run on or cause an impact of some type. So because let's be honest, in the shipping industry, we're really known for our light touch of every single carton that comes through everybody's door.

18:04Right. So there's probably no movement or no possibility that those rules are going to change because the danger is not changing. The safety hazard is way too high. So regardless of administration, it doesn't matter. Those will not change. If it were to happen, there'd be problems. Building on what you're telling me, the possibility for higher capacity batteries are multiple cells, which companies can get better and more innovative at doing and do more things like OnePlus and figure out how to keep the cost down. So there's a possibility there. The other would be new kinds of batteries, something that doesn't use a material that is as regulated.

18:46We've had promises of those over and over and over for decades. So one of these days, one will hit, but we don't know that that's coming anytime soon. Or making it locally and getting under whatever your regional amount is, which already has happening in China and India and potentially could happen elsewhere as well. But again, remember that if you were to do that at that point under a single cell, you wouldn't be able to go on an aircraft. so that hampers that's going to limit yeah that's a lot of people from wanting a lot of people who can't afford it from wanting to buy it because yeah i don't know anybody who has a cell phone who doesn't want to get on a plane we already have people uh surprised in china when they have to throw away their external uh battery charger because it doesn't meet the certification standards they just put in place there so imagine if you bought a phone at the store you know at the t mobile store this Verizon store and then you got on the plane and they're like sorry you can't take And the TSA is really stringent at, hey, you really shouldn't be taking this through, and they're supposed to alert the airline.

19:52Because the TSA does have minor authority, but they don't have a lot of authority with regard to batteries and things like that. It's the airlines and their policies that really tighten the clamp because they have to adhere to the IATA rules. And again, the other thing is portable batteries. You know, I mean, this is a 10 ,000 milliamp hour battery. It's got multiple cells within it. You know, I mean, there's nothing wrong with just carrying an extra brick around if you need one. Yeah. At least that is the solution for now. Barring some kind of successful change in battery chemistry for phones.

20:35Well, until we get to the nuclear powered phone. Yeah, yeah. It's that or it's companies getting more innovative at being able to include multiple cells like you have in your external charger inside your phone. Big Jim, thank you so much for helping us understand this. I appreciate you digging in on this. I know this was something you didn't know off the top of your head. You had to do some work, so I appreciate it. This was, this was one of those ones. And this is what I enjoy about the show and the community is, you know, why are we doing it this way? And me having to learn even more. Yes, that's a hint for Tom's know a little more segment.

21:09But that being said, thanks for having me on Tom. And as always, if anybody needs to get ahold of me, feel free to drop a line in the discord. Just make sure you at me. um the other thing uh i want to direct people i haven't done it for a while but i'm gonna do it anyway direct people to go to my logistics haiku.com website which will uh lead you to my logistics haiku book uh just if you're bored it's only a buck i really don't make money off it but it's just good fun yeah no and they're good haikus i i couldn't i couldn't attest to that it's good stuff thank you jim i appreciate it man always thanks tom thank you for supporting the show everybody at patreon.com slash DTNS.

21:49We'll talk to you soon.

21:58The DTNS family of podcasts, helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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