Does science fiction inspire real tech?

26:40But I don't think it's a big jump to imagine that like you might want bigger screens for some ideas. Like it doesn't seem like a completely different technology to me. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, Apple didn't invent the idea of a tablet. As in many cases, they came in very late, made it awesome and sold billions of them. Right. The idea for like a touchscreen tablet goes way, way back. The first patent was in 1979 by Team Hitachi for the idea. And Apple had a touchscreen Mac and Soft concept as early as 1984. You can see a prototype of it in the SF MoMA, actually. And in 1989, the predecessor to the Palm Pilot, the first maybe successful tablet was this grid pad, which is based actually on MS-DOS, for those who remember that.

27:33And then in 93, Apple came out with the Newton, which is like a little tablet device and you could interact with it. It didn't have a keyboard, right? It wasn't a smartphone. It really was like a proto-tablet. But there were lots of failed devices in the 90s. Like Microsoft came in and tried to build one, the WinPad, which never went anywhere. And people kept trying to build this and said, like, consumers are going to want it. In 2001, Nokia developed a tablet internally, but decided not to sell it because they said the market wasn't ready. And in 2005, they finally came out with a tablet. And then again, before Apple and the iPad, in 2008, the first Android tablets came out.

28:14So Apple wasn't even the first to produce the tablet like what we see today. In 2010, Apple came out with the iPad and pushed it to the mainstream. And by 2012, one-third of U.S. households had a tablet. That's amazing. And, you know, the power of Apple and their design and their slick interface and their marketing, I don't know. All right. So did the Star Trek pad inspire the iPad or other similar devices? So if you ask the guys at Star Trek, they think it did. Doug Drexler, he's one of the designers behind the pad. He said that iPads felt, quote, eerily similar to his team's vision. Quote, it's uncanny to have a PADD that actually works, he said.

28:56calling it the true Star Trek dream. And so they see a connection, right? They claim credit for it. But if you ask Apple execs, they are mum on the idea. Nobody at Apple admits that Star Trek inspired their work or even earlier designers of tablet computers. I don't know if that's an intellectual property issue and the lawyers have weighed in, but the engineers deny it. Would Doug Drexler say that he was inspired by earlier science fiction that came before him? Probably. I mean, I'm sure as a designer on Star Trek, he's read all that earlier science fiction, and he knows he didn't come up with the concept all on his own.

29:33But again, you know, it's a big step forward, right? Having it be ubiquitous, having it be in casual use, having them be so small and portable. These were new things for Star Trek to come up with. Okay, so I'd say this is definitely a point for science fiction. Yeah. And probably actually a point for Star Trek. So you're not having the full A City on Mars experience here. In fact, this is a very light ACOM experience. There's a lot more nuance here than I expected. Yes, yes. All right. So are we going to get to a technology that doesn't have anything to do with Star Trek? Or is Star Trek the only thing that's driven technology forward?

30:12No, let's go underwater. Many folks are under the impression that the book 20 ,000 Leagues Under the Sea, which came out in 1870, inspired people to build submarines and is like the reason we have submarines now. And it was a really cool book. A lot of concepts in that book, like electric propulsion and driving for a long time underwater and having self-contained life support. These were really cool concepts that we now see, of course, in submarines. And Simon Lake, who's a submarine pioneer, he cites Jules Verne as an influence, right? But the problem is that Like, people have been building submarines long before this.

30:50Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, the history of submarines goes all the way back to the 1500s. So, like, 300 years before Jules Verne wrote his novel. I gotta be honest, I would not want to be in a 1500s submarine. I can't imagine that was safe. There's a record that in the city of Toledo, two Greeks submerged and surfaced in the river Tagus several times without getting wet. And with the flame that they carried in their hands, still alight. So this is like, you know, one record of maybe some prototype submarine all the way back in 1560s. Did they probably have like a tube that went to the surface?

31:27It's not clear. There's not a whole lot more details there in the record. But it's like the first reference to maybe what could have been a prototype submarine. And then in 1578, the English mathematician William Byrne recorded in his book Inventions or Devices, one of the first plans for an underwater navigation vehicle. So there's evidence that the idea was around. The first time we're sure that somebody actually built a submarine is 1620. A Dutchman named Cornelius Drebbel built this thing, and it's powered by oars. And it looks kind of like a submarine, but with oars sticking out the side.

32:02Of course, the holes have cloth or rubber or something to keep it waterproof. And so it looks a little bit like a sub, and then it swims along. It's kind of like a mechanical fish. Like underwater. Yes, underwater. With like a, I know I'm harping on this tube, but like with like a tube that attaches you to the surface for breathing air? Oh, that's a good question. Also, I got to be honest, I would not trust a man named Cornelius Dribble. That sounds like someone who's trying to put you on. Apparently this thing was tested many times in the Thames, but failed to attract enough enthusiasm and was never used like in combat or anything.

32:37So this guy basically invented it in 1620. Holy cow. Yeah. The first military submarine was the Turtle, 1775. This thing is shaped like an acorn. It's basically for like one person. It was designed by American David Bushnell. And it's the first verified submarine capable of independent underwater operation. And the first time they used screws for propulsion, right? You know how like a modern submarine has basically a propeller, right, to push it along. So instead of like oars, they used screws, which basically, you know, you turn it and it pushes the water. Huh. And he would like run into things on purpose?

33:16What can you do? I guess he's just spying to figure out where things are. Is that? Yeah, I think at this point it's spying. And the U.S. Civil War actually was one of the first uses of submarines in actual battle. In 1864, the Confederate had a submarine called the H.L. Hunley, and it was the first military submarine to ever sink an enemy vessel. It sank the USS Hossatonic. Problem is, it also killed the crew instantly and sank the submarine. Yeah, thumbs down. Yeah, thumbs down. But, you know, progress, I guess. Of a sort? Of a sort. And then the French developed the first mechanically powered submarine in 1867.

33:56So we're still before 20 ,000 Leagues Under the Sea. This was the Plongour, which is French for diver. And it had compressed air inside, which I guess must have protected the inside a little bit so you can go a little bit deeper. And this probably was the inspiration for Jules Verne. So I think in this case, it actually went the other direction. Jules Verne saw this exciting development in submarine technology, and then he went further. So we've got a point for engineering now. All right. Yeah. And Verne probably saw this at the World's Fair in Paris that year and then extrapolated. Okay. So we've got two points for sci-fi, one for engineering.

34:33Exactly. And then submarine pioneer Simon Lake, he really was inspired by Verne, right? And he made the first open ocean voyage by a submarine in 1898. and then Vern sent Lake a telegram. So I think there might have been a little bit of healthy back and forth here, right? Engineers inspire science fiction who inspire more engineers, dot, dot, dot. The U-boats sink the Lusitania and we get into World War I. I love you in wet blanket mode.

35:01All right, I'm still doing two for sci-fi, one for engineering. If I remember 20 ,000 Leagues Under the Sea, one thing I think Vern did pioneer was like a really posh submarine. which I feel like most submarines have not taken up yet. As far as I know, most are a bit cramped and stinky. No velvet couches and like nice table for your drinks and stuff. No, no. All right, but let's leave the sea and let's start talking about communication. So a famous science fiction author is Arthur C. Clarke, and he's written lots of influential stuff, including not just fiction, he's actually written essays. and in 1945, he wrote an essay proposing that we build a set of satellites in geostationary orbit so we can have global communications, right?

35:48So this is pre-Sputnik. This is like visionary and saying, hey, let's put a bunch of stuff up in space so that I can talk to people on the other side of the world, right? At the time, this was seen as like wildly speculative, right? We didn't have commercial satellites at all yet. So it was kind of a cool idea. We had already the concept of geostationary orbits, people understood that that was a solution, that was something you can do. And in 1929, another guy, Herman Patachnik, already had thought about using satellites in space for observation and communication. But Clark was the first one to have this idea of really specifically how this would work and what the network would look like and to use satellites for orbit.

36:28In fact, these orbits are sometimes called Clark orbits now because they're inspired by this essay. Was Clark also an engineer? Like, was this the case of a sci-fi writer also being like an engineer? Like, I'm wondering if we could split this point. I think Arthur C. Clark is not officially an engineer. There's like no real education there. He's an all around nerd though. I mean, he was like inspired as a kid by dinosaur cigarette cards, enthusiastic about fossils. He's sort of like a futurist more than an engineer. Did you say dinosaur cigarette cards? Mm-hmm. Yeah. What do those three words mean together, Daniel?

37:11Cigarette cards are these things which appeared in packets of cigarettes that had images on them. You could have actors, or you could have pictures of dinosaurs or whatever, or football players or something. That was a different era. Okay. Maybe I watched too much Edwardian or Victorian television, so I knew these things. I'm all about masterpiece theater. I watched Masterpiece Theater when I was a kid. It was Disney. So I guess we were different kinds of kids. Okay, so it sounds like we're giving this point to sci-fi. All right, keep going. Yeah, absolutely. He got a lot of technical details right.

37:45Of course, these days, we're all about satellite-based communications. It started in the 60s, 64, 65, with the first launches of commercial satellite-based communication systems. These days, of course, you know, most of the satellites in orbit are Starlink satellites for internet. We are using one right now to have this conversation. We sure are. Thank you to Arthur C. Clarke for pioneering this idea. But I don't think the Starlinks are in geostationary orbit. No, they are not. They are in low Earth orbit, right? And the idea there is that they can be closer and so they're a lower latency. But you're passed off from one to another.

38:24It's a different system, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But we'll still give that to Clarke. All right, let's take a break and we will move from Arthur C. Clark to Heinlein.

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41:53All right, we are back. And we were just discussing what Arthur C. Clarke contributed to technology today. What about Heinlein? What did Heinlein contribute? So there's a great book called Starship Troopers. It came out 1959, which is mind-blowing that it's so old. It feels much more modern. You got to watch out. We did a survey and we have a number of listeners who are, let's say, older than we are. Oh, wow. And so I think that you don't want to be casting dispersions on the year 1959. No, no, it's the opposite. It's exactly the opposite. I feel like, wow, that book didn't come out that long ago, did it?

42:32It makes me feel like, okay, yes, maybe I'm saying I'm old and our listeners are too. Oops. Yeah, anyway, a cool idea that's in that book is powered armor, basically like an exoskeleton. And, you know, we've seen this, of course, much more recently. It's all over Avatar and it's an alien and all kinds of stuff. But some people give credit to Heinlein and Starship Troopers for the idea of powered armor. All right. So does this point go to sci-fi then? Give us the context. It's nuanced. The idea for this definitely predates Starship Troopers. In the 1890s, there was a Russian inventor, Nicholas Yagin, who invented a spring and piston-based apparatus for running and heavy lifting.

43:19He used compressed gas and springs. This is real steampunk exoskeleton kind of stuff. It must have been awesome. Yeah, totally. Unless it exploded. Yeah, I'm sure it was super dangerous. And then in 1917 in the US, we had the pedo motor, a powered soft exosuit. So this idea was definitely out there to use mechanical support for human labor. And even in 1958, so a year before Star Trek Troopers, General Electric came out with something called the Handyman, which is basically like robotic arms that you could use for heavy lifting and this kind of stuff. And then in 1960s, they worked on the Hardy Man, which was aimed at like full body augmentation.

44:02So like legs in addition to arms. So this thing was definitely in development and in the zeitgeist before Starship Troopers. I think that Heinlein here gets credit for like popularizing the idea and maybe like codifying the concept and then influencing, you know, engineers and science fiction down the road. So I wonder if GE was super excited when Starship Troopers came out because they were like, free advertising! Or if they were like, hey, we got scooped. That was our idea. There's probably some grumpy engineer at GE who's mad that Heinlein gets credit for this. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Fair enough.

44:37Something we definitely learned is that credit is not being applied correctly. Like Kirk and Shatner do not get credit for the flip phone. Yeah, right. Okay. But, you know, welcome to life. Am I right? Yeah, exactly. So it sounds like this point definitely goes to engineering, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Another concept we see a lot is voice control. You know, in Star Trek, for example, was one of the first places you saw natural language commands. In that show, they can just talk to the computer. They ask it complicated questions. They require context and analysis. It solves problems. It's like talking to a person.

45:13It's a very conversational interface. Whereas, you know, computers until very, very recently were much more like push button and you had to give them very specific commands. Yeah, and now it's kind of amazing. When I talk to AI and I'm trying to use it to practice Russian or something, it is amazing how natural it sounds. Yeah, it's really incredible. It's improved a lot. But this is something people have been working on, again, for a long, long time. In 1952, Bell Labs had something they called AUDRI, which was a tortured acronym for Automatic Digit Recognition. and its goal was just to recognize spoken digits zero to nine.

45:49You could just say numbers and it would recognize them. 52. So we did not have powerful computing back then. And then 10 years later, IBM had the shoebox, which could recognize 16 spoken English words. Most of them are like plus or minus, this kind of thing. So it's like a verbal calculator you can use. And this is because natural language processing is really, really hard. Language is complicated. It takes a long time to teach a human how language works because, you know, there are rules, but they're not precise and we don't always follow them. And small changes can mean big differences in meaning, right?

46:24One comma, for example, can really change what something means. So at the time, Star Trek was really far forward thinking. Like in 1966, nothing came close to what you saw on Star Trek. And folks at Google and Apple, in this case, explicitly cite Star Trek as an inspiration for Siri and Alexa. Huh. So I guess I'm going to kind of make a critique I made earlier, which is like, okay, so yes, science fiction came up with this idea first, but isn't it kind of obvious that at some point we'd rather not have to type something in and we'd want to just be like, you know, sit on our lazy butts and yell across the screen, like, turn the TV on, you know?

47:04Like, isn't it kind of an obvious thing? It's kind of an obvious thing, but it sometimes only seems obvious in hindsight. I think what science fiction does really well is show you how technology can transform life. What would life be like if we had this thing? Like you can say, yeah, that would be cool. But what would it really be like to be alive in that world and to live that way? And it was incredible what we saw on the screen, the way they could talk to the computer, this assistant they had, which was intelligent and never got tired. It was amazing and very forward thinking. Even if they didn't invent the technology or even the idea, they showed us what life could be like if we had it.

47:39And I think that is part of the inspiration. I think that if I was trying to sell a new technology, I would hire you to be the person to pitch it because that was very convincing. All right. All right. How about self-driving cars, which I am hoping that I can purchase by the time my kids are old enough to drive, which is happening way faster than I thought that it would. I know. So this first appears in science fiction in 1935. There's a story called The Living Machine, where there are driverless taxi cars in a futuristic society. And then it appears everywhere in science fiction. 1950s, The Magic Highway, Herbie the Love Bug in 1968, one of my favorite movies.

48:21It's not really a self-driving car. It's sort of like a car with a mind. And then, of course, Knight Rider in the 1990s, right? That's a car that not only can talk, but can drive itself. I'm not familiar with any of these. What, you don't know Knight Rider? Seriously? I know of Knight Rider. I didn't know that it was spelled K-N-I-G-H-T, but I see that in your outline, there's a K there. I can still hum the theme song to Knight Rider. Okay, go ahead. Which I will not do. But Matt would give you a musical accompaniment, probably. Let's just ask Matt to give us a musical background right now. All right.

48:59Knight Rider was very influential. I actually went to the Automotive Museum in LA where they have the Knight Rider, one of the prop cars. Very big moment for me. I have a picture standing in front of it, of course. Wow. Whoa. Yes. Thanks, Matt. I watched that in the spinoff version with the helicopter. Lots and lots as a kid. Anyway, this is big in science fiction. And of course, now it's maybe big in the real world. But this is something that, again, engineers were working on before it even appeared in science fiction. So in 1925, there were already cars without drivers. These are radio-controlled cars.

49:37So think of the RC car that your kids drive around, but just a real-sized version. They had radio technology, and somebody put radio technology together with a car. I was like, hey, this is cool. That's not a car you can get in and tell it where to go, but the driver's not literally in the car. So in principle, it's sort of separating the driver and the car. And then in 1930s, popular magazines already envisioned the futures with automatic cars. So you see articles and depictions where you have driverless cars already in the popular imagination in the 1930s. Oh, it sounded to me like engineering gets a point.

50:15Yes, absolutely. And then people have been working on this hard for a long, long time. You know, DARPA had these challenges. How long can you drive a car before it crashes? And it was hard. This is like mostly led by university teams and most of the cars crashed after like 10 meters or something. So the fact that we have like competing endeavors from Waymo and Tesla and Zooks and whatever these days that are like almost working is amazing. And in the sake of full transparency, my brother works for Waymo. So I have a conflict of interest there. Yeah, I didn't know that. Can your brother get me a Waymo car?

50:48My brother can't even get me a Waymo car. Yeah, I know. Or Waymo stock for that matter. Oh, all right. Well, bummer. Okay, so it sounds like we're giving this one to engineering. I think we've got time for one more technology. Let's end on 3D printers and we're back to Star Trek. I know. And Daniel's preferred device, the replicator, right? This is awesome on Star Trek because, again, it's something you can just use casually. It's not like you go into the lab and you have to sign up and it takes seven weeks to configure the machine. You just, like, want a cup of hot tea. You just make a cup of hot tea.

51:22Tea or gray hot. That beverage has not been programmed into the replication system. Or you can, like, build spare parts or whatever you need. There's no ordering anything on Amazon. Anything you need, it just assembles it from the raw ingredients. It's incredible. And it's everywhere. It's not like the ship has one of them. Like, everybody's got one in their quarters. It's like having a microwave. Earl Grey. Black. Oh, no, wait. What was it? Was it Earl Grey Black? Hot. Coats, it's hot. What do you want in it? Nothing. So this is exactly the kind of thing I would love to have around. And it's the kind of thing science fiction nerds love.

51:58But it was not invented, again, by Star Trek. This appears first in like 1945 in a short story by Murray Leinster. The idea of like feeding plastics into something. And then there's a moving arm that makes drawings in the air. And the stuff that comes out of it hardens. The idea of like a 3D printer really has much earlier roots than Star Trek. Cool. And then in The Midas Touch, a book by Frederick Pohl, there's the idea of matter conversion, that you can turn anything into anything. And then more recently, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson, has matter compilers, though these are probably inspired by Star Trek.

52:35So there's sort of a thread here in science fiction. Okay. All right. But did engineering predate the idea? So engineering does predate this. In 1971, there was a liquid metal recorder, basically sort of like printing with metal. The idea that you could use something which was a liquid and then hardened and you could use that to build up something. They call this additive manufacturing. The idea really emerged in the 80s. There's a guy named Chuck Hall who invented this concept of additive manufacturing, soft layers, which are added one at a time, and then cured to make hard with UV radiation or particles or something.

53:18It goes from soft to hard, and then you can build something. And so this came out in the 80s, which again predates the next generation. And back then you could buy one, you know, in the 80s, a 3D printer that would cost like two thirds of a million dollars in today's money. Yikes. People have asked Hall, like, were you trying to build this thing from Star Trek? And there's no evidence of that. He just thought this would be useful if we could like, you know, basically print stuff in 3D. You said he was doing it before Star Trek, so he couldn't have been, right? Yeah, exactly. But the idea appeared before Star Trek in science fiction, a concept of a replicator.

53:56He says he was not inspired by science fiction. But once the idea came out and 3D printers were more ubiquitous, Star Trek, again, had already prepared people. It's a lot like the flip phone. This concept was everywhere in Star Trek. People had the idea, oh, what if we could just build things out of their raw parts? And now printers are everywhere. It's like for$200, you can get a pretty good 3D printer. And now we use them to build things like rocket. Like I think Rocket Lab at least used to 3D print some of their rockets. Maybe they still do. And people are trying to 3D print things like livers and they can already do some stuff.

54:30Yeah, absolutely. Casts, right? Bones, things you can put in your blood vessels. Like if you need a really specific shape for something, then you can 3D print it. And so biomedically, this is a lot of applications. So it's a really cool thing. And it doesn't seem like it was inspired by science fiction, but, you know, maybe its use and its adoption was inspired by science fiction. Science fiction sort of prepared us for thinking about what life would be like if we had this and then made people more enthusiastic when it came around. So what do you think? Do we split that point then? I think maybe we should split it.

55:03Yeah, exactly. So where do we stand in the end, Kelly? Yeah, so here's the neat thing about the point system. I wasn't writing this down anywhere or keeping track of it at all. And so I think probably science fiction won, but I can't be sure because I didn't write it down.

55:21Well, for those of you keeping score at home, you know more than we do about the outcome of this episode. I was assuming Kelly was keeping track, so I don't remember either. Nope, nope. Well, that's what you've come to expect from an episode of Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Extraordinary detail, but not a lot of planning. I think my take-home message is that a lot of the stories that are out there about science fiction inspiring real technology are on sort of shifty ground and rely on facts that are more myth than reality. But there is real inspiration here. People are reading science fiction, thinking about those future worlds, and then trying to build them.

56:03And it goes back and forth. So I think that's definitely solid. Yeah. And I think that there are so many things that you hear in your daily life that when you dig in and you really look for the facts, the stories are so much more nuanced, which is why I kind of love that we have an hour long podcast where we get to like dig in and try to tell the more nuanced stories. And then we don't record things like points. And, you know, we just we do whatever it is that we do here. Well, if anybody's getting points, it's not William Shatner. It's Wan Ming Cheng for all the awesome props on Star Trek. So thank you very much to all the science fiction authors who envision possible future worlds.

56:40And thank you to all the scientists and engineers who make them happen. That's right. All right. Until next time, Extraordinaries, thanks for listening.

56:53Thanks, everybody, for listening. please go and do us a favor and rate the show on whatever podcast app you're using. It really helps people find us. Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is edited by the amazing Matt Kesselman. He really is a wizard. You can also find us online on Blue Sky, Instagram, and XDNKUniverse. Come engage with us. You can email us at questions at danielandkelly.org. We really do want to hear from you. And you can find our website, www.danielandkelly.org, where you'll also find an invitation to join our Discord, where everybody comes and talks about the amazing universe.

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