How do signals get jammed?

23:41So you just make a bunch of noise at the same frequency where they're trying to hear it. And maybe you're closer to the receiver than the original sender is. So you can create a bunch of loud noise to make it hard for them to hear. Okay. So you need to make sure that it's the same wavelength so that it's not interfering. It's just overlapping and making noise. Exactly. And let's pull those two things apart because a lot of the listeners suggested that signal jamming could use destructive interference. So let's dig into that for a minute and remind ourselves, what is destructive interference? Well, we're thinking about electromagnetic signals as waves.

24:17Waves are complicated and they can interfere, right? You have the double slit experiment. You have all sorts of weird optical effects. You have like in your living room when you're listening to the TV, there's like spots where it's louder and quieter at the same distance from the TV. What is going on? Remember that waves can add and they can subtract. So waves go up and down, right? If you slap on the surface of your bathtub, you make waves that are up and down in the surface of the water. If you slap with the other hand, then those waves overlap with each other. And if one wave is going down the same time the other wave is going up, then they cancel out.

24:50Up plus down equals nothing. So this is destructive interference. It's not like you have two waves that are in the same place at the same time and you can detect both of them. They literally add up to zero, and so they cancel each other out. That's destructive interference. I miss being a kid. I can't remember the last time I took a bath. That was like a thing I did when I was eight. But it sounds like fun to smack on the surface of a bath and play with the waves. It is fun. You're doing physics experiments. That's right. But this is hard to do. In order for this to happen, you have to have two waves that are exactly the same height and the same frequency and out of phase by 180 degrees.

25:28Which means that like one of them is shifted so that it's going down when the other one is going up. Otherwise, they'll constructively interfere. Two waves that are both going up at the same time will add up to a double wave. And so this is hard to arrange. And it's amazing that your noise-canceling headphones can do this. What they do is they have a little microphone inside them, so they detect the sound that's about to hit your ear, and then they generate exactly the waves needed to cancel out that sound. So the two play on top of each other and literally cancel out. Okay, so I have a question.

26:01So I'm imagining our podcast being transmitted and for some crazy unimaginable reason, someone's trying to jam us. Someone doesn't want our message to get through. Right. Okay. So the wave that's carrying our podcast. Yeah. Is it like as we speak, the waves are getting generated? So, you know, like when I see our audio files on like Audacity, are they being generated like that? Or is it like there's constant waves being created as the message gets sent out across, you know, the sky? And like at the top of one wave is our cannibalism joke and the bottom of the next wave is our white chocolate joke.

26:47And could I guess what I'm wondering is, could you generate a wave to destructively interfere or would you need to know what somebody was going to say to generate the wave? Like how how complicated would it be? Does that question make sense? Yeah. Great question. It is complicated, especially because our podcast and almost all audio comes at multiple frequencies. Like I speak at a range of frequencies. You speak at a different range of frequencies. like my voice would sound very different if I only spoke at one frequency, right? There's a whole range. That's what contributes to it sounding like me and somebody else sounding like somebody else.

27:23That's why like violins sound different from pianos, even if they play the same note, right? They have a different like mixture of frequencies. So that's number one that makes it complicated. But you're asking like, do you need to know the signal in advance to destructively interfere? And also we're not talking about jamming right now. We're talking about destructive interference, right? Just to clarify what that is. So the best way to destructively interfere is, yes, to know exactly what the signal is in advance and to play the anti-version of it, right? The one that wiggles down instead of up, and then it would perfectly cancel out.

27:52Usually, your noise-canceling headphones don't know that, right? But they have a microphone, they listen to the sound, and then they calculate what you would need to do to counteract it and generate that on the fly. That sounds really complicated. It's very cool. Yeah. Yes, it's incredible. But it only works when those two waves overlap very locally, right? They generate that noise so that in your ear, the two waves go the opposite directions. But those two waves don't go the opposite directions everywhere, right? They generate it so that those two waves are out of phase right in your ear. But they're not out of phase somewhere else.

28:28Just like, you know, how when you walk around your living room, sometimes the sound constructively interferes and it's loud. Sometimes it's quiet, right? That's because phase depends on distance, right? Where you are in the wiggle, are you up or down? Depends on how far you are from the source. So you can do destructive interference, and that's an excellent way to cancel out somebody's signal, but you can only do it one place. So if you're the Soviet Union and you want to jam, like, broadcast a voice of America across Europe, there's no way to do that with destructive interference unless you're, like, buying everybody noise-canceling headphones and putting them on their head.

29:03Each one would have to generate a different cancellation signal based on where that person is, right? There's no way to cancel it broadly all over Europe or even over like a two meter span. It's very, very sensitive and very, very localized. So destructive interference, very cool, very powerful, very amazing technology, but not the basis of signal jamming because you can't do it over a broad area. All right. So destructive interference out. Not nice. instead signal jamming is much cruder it's just your annoying sibling shouting in your ear right and so you're right you have to target the right frequency if kelly is expecting to get a signal from daniel at a certain frequency then to jam that signal you just make a bunch of noise at the same frequency and you want to make it like unpleasant or you want to make it like really loud and uninteresting you know to drown out the interesting stuff and so like early jammers from the Soviet Union, for example, they used to be powered by a diesel engine.

30:03So like a diesel engine generating the electricity you needed to generate the signal. And they were like, well, what signal are we going to send? And they decided just to send the sound of that diesel engine as the jamming signal at that frequency. So, you know. Because it happened to be the right frequency or they adjusted it up or down to be the right frequency. Yeah, they adjusted it. But it has like a little bit of natural variation, which makes it harder to filter out, you know? So it's like a jugga, jugga, jugga, jugga, jugga. It's like a really annoying sound. sound effects. Yeah, I know.

30:31Or other classic choices are bagpipes, which I think is just like, you know, choosing to weaponize Scottish culture, I guess. Not cool. I mean, you can't send haggis over the airwaves. So this is like the second best thing we can do. Yeah, good. Can you find a third way to isolate our Scottish listeners, Daniel? I'm just speaking to the power of their culture, you know? I see. Yeah, to be aware. I'm a big fan of Scots. I've hired several Scottish postdocs. I've recently been to Scotland. I wore a kilt. I had a great time. Love Scotland for the record. Do you love haggis and bagpipes, Daniel? Let's move on.

31:11Daniel, where does the phrase jamming come from? Because I don't usually think of jamming as meaning like make a lot of noise to drown out something else. I think of jamming as like, you know, putting a wrench in something to stop it altogether. I mean, this is a really fun question because jam has so many meanings, right? Like there's a strawberry jam you make at the end of the summer. And I used to think that that was the connection with signal jamming, that like you were throwing a pot of jam onto somebody's radar dish or whatever. But it's not. It's more like a log jam, you know, how you can like have a traffic jam, things get clogged up.

31:49And so signal jamming is like clogging up signals, not making strawberry jam, or not hanging out and playing the electric guitar with your goth friends in the garage in the afternoon, which is also another kind of jamming. Or we be jamming. I'm not going to do any more singing. I don't want to alienate any other groups of people. We'll move on. Alienate? You're getting invitations. Somebody out there was like, that's the voice I need on my hip-hop album. Well, but then I went and sort of almost sang, so they're going to rescind that invitation immediately. So, all right, moving on. But the basic idea is you create a signal that's hard to filter.

32:27If you're trying to interfere with me sending messages to Kelly, for example, and you create noise at just one particular frequency, Kelly could just delete that from what she's hearing and listen on another frequency. Or I can shift my frequency a little bit so it's not on the noise frequency. And you're going to talk to me like this instead?

32:48and so you know to be effective at jamming you want to do it broadly over a few frequencies and you want to send something that's harder to remove like we know that noise can be removed our amazing audio wizard matt removes noise from these tracks all the time but the hardest noise to remove is like variable noise unpredictable noise so if you want to be hard to remove you got to generate unpredictable noise. And that's why like bagpipes or diesel engines are better than just like a single piercing note. Okay. All right. Are there other ways to jam? Yeah. It's like an arms race of cleverness here.

33:24Some people do things like capture the real signal and then modify it and retransmit a deceptive version of it. So, you know, you're like taking Daniel's message and you're adding a bunch of quantum woo to it. And then you're sending that to Kelly and she's getting very confused because it sounds like Daniel, but it's full of nonsense. And so this is like more powerful, more subtle signal jamming. But basically all these things are loud radio shouters. Just be really, really loud. And the idea is to have your jammer close to the receiver. So you're trying to interfere with the signal sent from California to Virginia.

34:00So you set up near Kelly's farm, you create one of these jammers. You're not going to interfere with my signals going to Hawaii or whatever, but you're going to interfere with Kelly getting the signal because you can be louder for Kelly than I am because you're closer to her. These jammers, when they're effective, typically fairly localized. Why can't a jammer that's sending like a diesel engine sound or whatever be just as effective as the original message if it's sent out as strongly as the original method? It can, absolutely. If you have that much power to send out a really loud jamming message, then yes.

34:35And we can talk about some examples of that. But typically, the range depends on the power and the proximity. You can buy a cheap handhold cell phone jammer that works 30 to 50 meters. So you can walk around in a way that nobody can get a phone call or nobody can send you a phone call. The military has more powerful jammers that work hundreds of meters away. But I should note before I talk about these things, these things are totally illegal. Oh, okay. I was going to ask why more people haven't messed with their exes using these things, but okay, totally illegal. Yeah, totally legal. In almost every country in the world, it's illegal to build one of these things, mostly because they interfere with emergency communications.

35:18It's hard to overcome these things. And if somebody needs to make a phone call, a 911 call or something, it could be bad. Like there's a guy in 2002 in France who installed a jammer because he was frustrated by his kids' use of phones late at night. And he knocked out service for the whole town for like hours and hours. And yeah, that guy got in a lot of trouble. Oh, no. So, you know, parenting gone, high tech wrong. So how did he get a jammer? Or was he like super smart and he made his own jammer because he just kind of knew what he was doing? These things are totally legal, but you can buy them.

35:54Oh. Okay. Yeah, people are out there building them and selling them. And so, yeah, for sure, they exist. And you could probably even buy one online. It's not that hard. But anybody out there who's listening should know these things are totally illegal. And so when you get caught, don't say, Daniel told me how this works and I decided to do it. Yeah, no, we're talking jail time, fines, rights. Don't blame DKEU. We told you so. Exactly. And these things just get more and more sophisticated. Our description of messages was essentially how analog messages work. You're encoding it somehow directly into the waveform.

36:31But modern communication is mostly digital, right? We're transforming the waves somehow into digital signals, zeros and ones, which involves some sort of binning, right? So you have thresholds, et cetera, et cetera. And these digital signals also use complex modulation techniques. So like you're shifting the phase. there's all sorts of back and forth between like the receiver and the transmitter do they recognize each other you know okay i'm ready send the signal now okay i got it this checksums back and forth it's not as simple as just like i'm broadcasting in the clear for anybody to listen to and so more complicated digital signal jammers can be really subtle they can like send a fake handshake to say hey i'm the sender and they can keep doing that and it like traps the receiver in an infinite loop, it's sort of like almost more like hacking than like jamming.

37:21You're just confusing the receiver so it can't actually hear the real message. Oh, wow. And so you can't like change the channel at that point or? And so the response is to like shift the channel constantly, you know, defense mechanism. We'll get into that in a minute. There are approaches to avoid this, but there are other technologies that are easier to jam like Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. Like if you have many devices, they avoid talking over each other. Before your phone transmits via Bluetooth, it listens via Bluetooth to hear, is anybody else transmitting? If so, I'll just wait. So they avoid colliding with each other.

37:54And so if you just are constantly shouting at that frequency, you basically block all Bluetooth. So you can block Wi-Fi and Bluetooth more easily because they're very polite technologies, right? They're avoiding colliding with you. And so if If you're just really, really rude and loud all the time, then a continuous transmission like that can effectively block signals. Oh, good. We're becoming more vulnerable over time. Lovely. All right. Well, let's take a break. And when we come back, let's take a bit of a stroll through jamming history and see times that this has been used in the past.

38:56We'll be right back.

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40:56All right. Welcome back to Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. And now that we're all experts on the science of jamming, let's take a little stroll through the history of jamming. And Daniel will tell us about when jamming has been used in the past. Yeah. So, you know, we developed electronic transmissions in the early 1900s. So, you know, radio and all this kind of stuff. And then it was very, very important in World War II. The radio and radar became very important. And radar is just sending out more electromagnetic pulses and seeing how they bounce back and using that to detect jets, et cetera.

41:30And so radar jamming became very important. You didn't want to be spotted when you were zooming in for your bombing sortie. And so airplanes could send out false radar signals. You send out pulses that make it sound like you got bounced back from something else or et cetera. Then you could jam radar. If you're just constantly sending pulses at somebody's radar, then they can't hear anything. If your planes are coming in, but you have another device that's like shooting a huge amount of radar specifically at that listener, then they can't use their radar to detect your planes. I guess as someone who's more of a fish person than a bird person, I was thinking of the submarines.

42:07Were they jamming the submarine radars too? Yeah, exactly. The same kind of thing happens for submarines. You can also jam radio like the BBC broadcast over the continent. And the Nazis were not big fans of the BBC. They thought it was, you know, left-leaning media bias, as we often hear. And so they tried to jam that radio, essentially just broadcast at the same frequency as loudly as possible so that you just can't hear the BBC. Wow. And then there's hilarious stories like Russians left mines all over Finland, but these were radioactivated mines so they could be remotely detonated. Oh, yikes.

42:44And so the Finns figured out what frequency it was, and they played polka music continuously for like five months at that same frequency. So the Russians couldn't activate their mines. And then by that point, the batteries in the mines had died. That's amazing. I know. I love the polka defense. Does polka music come from Finland? I don't think so. I thought it was more German. I associate it more with like Oktoberfest, so I don't know why they chose polka music. I mean, they must have liked it, right? Because they were going to have to listen to it for a long time. All right. So after World War II came the Cold War.

43:23I'm guessing jamming was important then too? Yes, exactly. So the BBC and the Voice of America tried to broadcast into the Soviet Union and the Soviets didn't like that. And so they tried to jam those signals. Same way, they just like create loud broadcasts at the same frequency to interfere. But it's interesting because how well you pick up a distant radio station depends a lot on the atmospheric conditions. Is there a lot of wind between you and there, which changes the density patterns in the air, which creates refractions and reflections? It's sort of like optics. And so as the day goes on, you might hear the BBC louder or quieter or the jammer louder or quieter.

44:01So you might be able to pick up the BBC during some parts of the day during certain weather conditions. The jamming is not 100 % effective. You can also, as a defense mechanism, use directional antennas. The simple model of antenna we talked about before was just like you have a tower, it picks up electrons, but you can also build them to have a more complex structure so they're better at picking up signals in certain directions. Like, for example, this microphone I'm talking to, our audio guy tells me that it's a directional microphone. If I speak at the front of it, then it picks me up better than if I'm speaking at the side of it.

44:35And that's just because of the structure of the electronics inside of it that resonate better with a signal from one direction. And so if you want to only pick up signals from the UK and not from Moscow, you don't want to use a general antenna. You want a directional antenna. Helps you overcome the signal jamming a little bit. Except the Soviets would want to pick up the message from Moscow and not from the UK. But yes, I see your point. Exactly. Well, let's go to one of the best states in the United States. Let's hear about jammers in New Jersey. I was born in New Jersey, so I do so love New Jersey.

45:10So as a reminder, jamming is totally illegal, but there was a guy in 2013 in New Jersey who wanted to evade company tracking. Like he was driving a work truck and the company had a GPS tracker on it and he didn't want them to know when he like, you know, went in and out or took a nap in the side of the turnpike for two hours or whatever. So he bought a cheap GPS jammer and he put it on his work truck and it worked, but it also jammed all the systems at Newark Airport, causing huge chaos for airport traffic. And yeah, so he was fined tens of thousands of dollars for creating that hassle. So again, these things, totally illegal, do not use them.

45:51I mean, he's lucky like planes didn't crash into each other and a bunch of people died. He's like, he didn't go to jail or something. But yes, totally illegal, friends. Exactly. And jamming extends not just on the surface of the Earth. You could also interfere with communications into space, right? A lot of our communications these days goes via satellite. And satellites require sending messages up to the satellite and then receiving messages back down from the satellite. So that's two opportunities to interfere with the signals. There's uplink jamming and downlink jamming. Are satellites, do you think they're like any more or less susceptible?

46:29Because they have like, do they have specific places where messages are received that you could like sneak up to and jam? Or everything has that and so that doesn't make them any more susceptible? No, they are more and less susceptible. Like on one hand, they're less susceptible because they're far away. And so like if you want to interfere with uplink jamming, then you need to really send a powerful signal to get to the satellite. Like if you want to interfere with that signal from the ground, you send a signal at the same frequency. And that's powerful because you could like disrupt everybody who's using that satellite if you overwhelm the satellite with some signal.

47:04But you need a really powerful signal to do that, to get to the satellite. On the other hand, satellites can broadcast over a huge range on the surface of the earth, right? And so if you want to mimic satellite transmissions, that's much, much harder because you'd need to like access where everybody is. And so to make it harder for ground receivers to receive those messages from satellites is pretty tricky because they have such a broad range. I thought you said it was going to be easier and harder, but it just sounds like it's harder and harder. Okay. Well, the easier bit actually is, unfortunately, this is pretty easy to do.

47:41Like, it's not expensive or complicated to interfere with satellite communications. There's a fairly low threshold of technical competency you need to do this, which is why we see interference with satellite communications from lots of countries around the world. Indonesia, Cuba, Ethiopia, Libya, Syria, all these places have, for military reasons, and so does the US, of course, technology to interfere with satellites. And again, this is totally illegal in U.S. law and also violates International Telecommunications Union. But if you want to buy one, they're like the size of a hockey puck. So it's not expensive.

48:19It's not complicated. It's not even very big. And this is a potentially very large issue. The United Nations put out a warning calling for urgent protection of radio navigation satellite service to support accurate global navigation and timekeeping. So it's definitely a big issue. And it's actually happened. Like satellites have definitely been jammed. Tell us stories because this kind of stuff keeps me up at night. Like if something happens to all of our satellites, I mean, one, I've been living in Charlottesville, Virginia for six years now. I still use my GPS. I would be toast if satellites were, you know, out of commission tomorrow and I couldn't use GPS anymore.

49:00Well, I read this hilarious interview with General John Hyten, who's head of the Air Force Space Command. And somebody asked him if there had been actual instances of satellite jamming. And he said that in 2015, there were 261 cases where they had been jammed from getting information from their satellites down to the ground segment. And then the interviewer asked them how many of those cases were from adversaries, bad actors or enemies or other governments. And he says, zero. What? Then where are they coming from? He says these are almost always self-jamming. People broadcast, the military is broadcasting constantly at all sorts of frequencies.

49:41And so they just are not organized enough to not jam themselves. And so he thinks that 200 times in that one year, they unwittingly interfered with their own signals. Because the EM spectrum is very, very complicated. And a small mistake can create huge strategic impacts. So this is definitely an issue. But presumably – so I don't remember hearing in 2015 that we jammed ourselves in something absolutely catastrophic happened. So presumably these are mostly minor things that we do that have happened. Exactly. The small delay, we can't hear from the satellite, we lost the connection to the satellite, what's going on, reboot the machine, okay, now it's working.

50:21That kind of situation is what I'm imagining. But there are times in conflict zones when this has definitely happened. Like Libya, in 2006, jammed a mobile satellite provider called Tharia, and a long investigation concluded the jamming came from Libya. So they decided they were going to jam this whole provider of mobile satellite communications. And is Tharia a Libyan company? Were they trying to – was it a company that the Libyan government didn't like, or was it some other countries? It's not clear. It came from Libya, and the government of Libya is one of the shareholders of this company. So it's not even really clear exactly what the motivation was.

51:00Huh. All right. And then in Iran in 2002, there's another case of jamming. And of course, in conflict zones right now, like Russia has been accused of jamming GPS signals to interfere with the Ukraine military. And also, Russia was accused of affecting flights over Eastern Europe by jamming GPS signals. There was a time when the European Commission president, her plane was forced to land because signals were jammed. She was forced to land in Bulgaria. Wow. And they suspected interference by Russia. Yikes. For a lot of these things, I wonder how hard it is to figure out who did the jamming. Because if you like remove the – if you turn off the jammer and you remove the device, it's probably hard to know like did a country jam our stuff or did we self-jam?

51:50And to be clear, I'm not trying to be like, well, do we really know it's Russia? I'm not trying to exonerate Russia in this particular instance or anything. I'm just saying this kind of stuff is hard, which I wonder could make it used in war situations more often just because it's the kind of thing that you can like say, oh, we didn't do it. Prove it. Prove it if you think we did. Yeah, because these signals can go really far distances, it's hard to tell exactly where they're coming from. And then even if you figure out where they were coming from, the jammer is not necessarily there anymore. And so, yeah, it's pretty effective and pretty easy to hide.

52:23But there are other things you can do to defend yourself. You can increase the power of your signal, just be louder than the noise. You can use a directional antenna like we mentioned earlier. Or you can change frequencies. Like instead of just broadcasting on one frequency, you can have a plan with the person listening to your signal of how you're going to change frequencies. Like we agree on a schedule and we'll switch, we'll hop between frequencies. That makes it harder to jam. It does mean, I mean, with satellites, you have to apply for frequencies through the International Telecommunications Union.

52:56So I wonder if that makes it hard to have secrets for like which frequencies you're going to bounce between because you need to register for the frequencies you're going to be using. Yeah, but usually you register for a range. And so if you move within that range in a specific pattern, then it can work. And in fact, this was an invention of Hollywood actress Hattie Lamar. She co-invented frequency hopping technology back in 1942 to help prevent the Nazis from jamming radio-guided torpedoes. Yeah, very cool. She's a Hollywood actress and a radio frequency genius. And that technology is used like now in modern Wi-Fi and GPS and all sorts of stuff.

53:34That's awesome. That's cool. Way to go. And advanced drones also do this to avoid being jammed. I mean, if somebody's controlling a drone, they're doing it using signals. And if you can jam those signals, they can lose control of their drone, right? So the higher end drones have this sort of technology where the controller and the drone agree on the frequency schedule, essentially, to avoid being jammed or to be less susceptible. But really, the best defense against being jammed is to find the jammer and turn off the jammer, you know, in some way. That's really the best thing you can do. When you say turn off the jammer, I guess when I think of the jammer, I think of the person who's doing the jamming.

54:12And I was like, well, Daniel, that sounds very intense. But yes, I guess turn off the equipment. But all right. Well, I had fun jamming with you today, Daniel, and I learned a lot. So that is how signal jamming works. And I hope that understanding the physics of this technology gives you more insight into how everything around you is working, how they're all talking to each other, and how mostly it works seamlessly, even if we get frustrated at our dishwashers. And our electrofishing boats. And if my dishwasher is sentient and is tapped into the podcast network and is listening to this, I'm not apologizing.

54:48Message to my Bosch. You're doing a great job. I appreciate you. Thank you for your hard work. All right. And you all are doing a great job of expanding your minds in this extraordinary universe. Thanks, everyone. Until next time.

55:09Thanks, everybody, for listening. Please go and do us a favor and rate the show on whatever podcast app you're using. It really helps people find us. Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is edited by the amazing Matt Kesselman. He really is a wizard. You can also find us online on Blue Sky, Instagram, and XDNKUniverse. Come engage with us. You can email us at questions at danielandkelly.org. We really do want to hear from you. And you can find our website, www.danielandkelly.org, where you'll also find an invitation to join our Discord, where everybody comes and talks about the amazing universe.

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