Listener Questions #33

26:40You can only call it chocolate if it's got a minimum amount of cocoa. And so probably they produce example chocolate that people can use in their chocolate detectors or something. And I'm sure there's rules about what you can call peanut butter and what gets called peanut cream or whatever. And so they have to produce something that they can put into their measuring devices. Anyway, that's how NIST ends up making peanut butter. All right. All right. Peanut butter is delicious and I love it. But let's get back to the matter at hand. So Alka is asking about how we measure things, which is super fun because there's really interesting history here.

27:16But also there's deep physics and philosophy about how we measure things, what we measure and what we define and what that all means. We're going to dig into all of that. And what they're referring to in their question is that we've changed these definitions. We used to define a second, for example, as one 86 ,400th of a rotation of the Earth. And you're like, well, that's a weird number. Where does that come from? That's 24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds. That's literally the number of seconds in a day. So we were defining a second to be in terms of the Earth's rotation, right? So how long does it take the Earth to spin?

27:53Call that 24 hours and then divide those up into little bitty slices, which we call seconds. So that's an example of how we used to do things. Or the kilogram used to be like a rod of metal in Paris. And we say this is a kilogram and everything is measured in relation to that. I think the rod in Paris makes sense to me. That's like a physical thing, although it probably changes over time. But like the rotation of the Earth, that's like not something that most of us could measure. That's probably something that most of us can't measure. That seems like a hard way to measure a second. Well, even the original meter, the rod, is a reference, but it's supposed to come from a measurement of the Earth.

28:35It's like one ten millionth of the shortest distance from the North Pole to the equator passing through Paris. Oh, Paris is very important in standard measurements. Well, you know, French used to be the language of science. And a lot of this stuff was done in Paris by people speaking French. So these things are defined in terms of Earth-based measurements here. And then you create like a rod as an example. And then that becomes the reference. And the issue is that like this method is not super robust. You know, physical objects are not great at being perfect references because they're not perfect.

29:08They don't stay the same way. They're not eternal, right? They wear down, they get contaminated, they shrink, they grow, they lose atoms, they gain atoms. I feel personally attacked right now. I'm not talking about you. You are the prototypical Kelly. You will always be. If you gain or lose atoms, you're still one Kelly. Okay. All right. Thanks. Does that make you feel better? I guess. I'm not sure why. Whereas, for example, we used to have an international prototype kilogram, which was this cylinder of platinum and iridium that was stored near Paris. But over a century, it drifted in mass by 50 micrograms.

29:48Maybe it gained some, maybe it lost some. We don't actually know because it's the reference, right? And so we have a bunch of these around the world, and sometimes you bring them back together and you measure them, you realize, oh, they're different from each other. Whoops. Well, what does that mean? Which one is a kilogram? Well, this one, we've defined the kilogram to be this one, And so it's always a kilogram, even if the number of atoms in it changes. And so it's just not a great system. It's okay when you're getting started and you're like, look, let's just write down what this is and start from there.

30:19But in an era of like high precision measurements, do you want your fundamental units to have that much fuzziness in them? It limits your ability to measure the universe itself. Like if you don't know the speed of light to better than one part in six, you can't measure anything that the speed of light is connected to better than that. There's an inherent fuzziness in everything. And so people realized this and said, all right, let's upgrade it. Let's try to come up with a new system where the units are defined by properties of nature, things that we think are really not changing or define the context of the universe itself.

30:53Not just like, hey, some guy named Girard cut a piece of metal this long and now that's the length. OK. All right. But I'm guessing the new methods are going to be harder to understand by the general public, which is kind of the point of the question, right? But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's go ahead. What did we come up with? The new methods are more precise, which makes them less accessible. Yes, but they are the foundation of physics, which is why you get like cool iPhones and stuff. Which is inherently inaccessible. Is that your point? No. I'm just saying that the public benefits from physicists doing their job better, right?

31:28Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. So in 1983, we transitioned from this old system of like physical objects to this new strategy of defining units in terms of invariant properties of nature. So the second actually got an upgrade before then. The second used to be this like slice of a rotation of the earth. But of course, the rotation of the earth is changing, right? Every year, the earth's rotation slows down. But a second is still a second, right? But today's second is not the same as last year's second. You can see already, this is a headache. And when we meet the aliens, it'll be embarrassing to have like a second defined by like, oh, this planet we used to live on a long time ago.

32:06Like it just doesn't make any sense. And this kind of stuff really concerns Daniel. Yes, it's important. And so in 1967, they redefined the second and they used something they thought was really, really precise, which is the cesium-133 atom. And this is basically what goes into atomic clocks. It has this oscillation where the electron switches between two energy levels called the hyperfine transition, because the difference between them is really, really small. And so it just oscillates between these two things extraordinarily regularly, right? This is basically a clock of the universe. And in about 9.19 billion oscillations is what we used to call a second.

32:46So then they redefined the second to be 9 ,192 ,631 ,770 oscillations of the electron between these states in a cesium-133 atom. That's what a second is. And is there like a cesium-133 atom doing its transition somewhere that it's being counted and the seconds are counting according to that? And is it in Paris? Bien sûr, madame. I don't speak French. I don't know what that was. Oh, but you do accents. That was good. No, I'm embarrassed. No, all cesium atoms do this, and they do the same, because all cesium atoms are the same. And so you don't need a prototypical French version in a cafe somewhere.

33:34Anybody can capture cesium-133 and use it as a clock because it's a property of the universe. That's sort of the idea. Okay. So that was the upgrade for the second. It happened in 1967. The meter has a more hilarious history. The first one was 1799. They made the prototype meter in Paris, according to that definition, one 10 millionth of the distance between the equator and the North Pole if you go through Paris. But in 1889, they realized that they hadn't done a great job and they upgraded it. So number one, they realized it was a little too short. And like, again, you have to ask like too short compared to what?

34:08It is the definition of the meter. But they had another way to measure this distance between the pole and the equator. And they realized it was a little bit longer than the basis for the previous measurement. So they needed an upgrade. So the 1889 necklady was supposed to be an exact copy, but instead they made it a little bit longer. They also changed its shape a little bit. Instead of just being like a flat rectangle, they made it an X shape, which was supposed to reduce the flexing during measurements and increase its rigidity rather than just being a blob. And they changed it from just being platinum to being a platinum iridium alloy to try to make it more durable.

34:47And you see already they're struggling against the fundamental failure of this system, which is you have a blob of metal and you're using it as your reference. And it's absurd because it's still getting it longer and shorter. You know, it warms up in Paris. The rod gets longer. Does the meter change? According to this system, yes. That's insane, right? The speed of light goes down when it's warmer in Paris. Does that really make sense to anybody? No. And in 1960, they tried to get away from this and they redefined it to be the certain number of wavelengths of Krypton-86 emission. So remember, atoms have energy levels and electrons can go up and down.

35:24And when they go down, they emit light and that light reflects the energy level. And so that's a pretty basic thing in the universe, the gap between those energy levels and therefore the wavelength of light that's emitted. So they redefined the meter in terms of these wavelengths. And that's cool. But then they had another issue, which was that now we have a definition of time in terms of cesium atoms, and we have a definition of distance in terms of Krypton 86 emissions. Fine. And they both seem pretty basic, but now we have to measure the speed of light, right? Because we have a definition of meter and we have a definition of time.

35:59Now we have to measure how fast light is. But light is a fundamental constant. It's part of the universe. It's not something we should have to measure. And we're pretty good at measuring time, but measuring length is hard. Being really, really precise, like down to one part in 10 to the 8 or 10 to the 10 in length measurements is tough. And so that fuzziness in the length of a meter gets translated into fuzziness in the speed of light itself. And so now the speed of light is like something we're measuring, we're not sure about, but we know that it's fixed. The physics tells us it has to be fixed.

36:35So we have a system of units, which is a little bit at odds with a system of physics, which treats the speed of light not as like some number we have to measure, but like a conversion between time and distance, right? It's really deeply ingrained in our understanding of relativity. So then they had another idea. They were like, look, we're good at measuring time. We're not so good at measuring length. Why don't we just define the second? And then we can use the speed of light itself to define the meter. Okay. So they said, okay, take a second. And now a meter is how far light travels 1 299 ,792 ,458 of a second.

37:15Naturally. Naturally, right. Because we define the speed of light to be 299 ,792 ,458 meters per second. Oh. Right. And so you can define two of these things and then measure the third one. And so we decided let's define time because we're good at measuring that. and let's define the speed of light and then we'll measure the meter in terms of that, right? So the meter is not something we define anymore. It's something we measure. Instead of measuring the speed of light, we're measuring the meter. And that way, the speed of light can remain perfect and absolute and invariant. And when we measure like the mass of the top quark and try to get that precision down, we're not carrying along in that measurement somebody's fuzziness of the measurement of the length of a meter, which got propagated into the measurement of the speed of light, which now pollutes everything in our system.

38:04So, you know, one way to think about it is like you can either paint tick marks on a physical ruler and hope that never changes, or you can define distance in terms of how long something takes to travel at a fixed speed. And we chose that second option and we use the most invariant speed in the universe. And so what Alka is referring to is a recent change in 2019. In 2019, they slightly redefined the length of a meter to include the definition of a second. Before that, they referred to a second, but they didn't expressly say what a second was. Then another definition of a second. So they just updated it a little bit to make it more complete.

38:42There's no real change in 2019. Okay, so it wasn't an academic exercise for physicists with too much time on their hands and not enough funding for their worthwhile endeavors? No, it was an important exercise for physicists who are doing important work and don't have enough time for other worthwhile endeavors, but took some time out to do this anyway. And could use more money. And could use more funding, exactly. But it goes to show you how important it is to think clearly and crisply about these really foundational questions. You know, what is a meter? What is a second? You might blow these off as like silly philosophical endeavors, but if you don't do it right, then you're spreading fuzziness through all of your physics.

39:23And that has real consequences. You know, how are we going to make chips in your iPhones if we can't measure things down to the nanometer, right? Like, it's important that we get these things right. That's right. All right. So let's see what our listener had to say. Are they still disappointed in physicists or are they convinced by your argument? Oh, wait, I didn't get to make my Bob Dylan joke. The times, they are a-changing. Oh, good. That's the only reaction. Golf clap. All right. Well, in this case, both the length and the times have changed, but I think we have a good system now. All right.

39:58Well, let's send this off to Alka and see if Alka is satisfied with our answer. I heard back from Alka. He didn't want to record his own voice, but here's his response. Hi, Daniel. Thank you for your effort. I decided a year and a half ago that I wanted to know more about physics, and then I found your podcast. I don't think I will ever have an understanding of biology as just one weird fact after another gross fact, but I have learned so much about physics during this time. Therefore, I love the answer. Thank you very much. It completely measures up. Well, thank you very much, Alka. Really glad you're enjoying the podcast.

41:11We'll be right back. All business. PayPal Open. Grow today at PayPalOpen.com. Loan subject to approval in available locations. Make it a summer of life with Live Nation. Get four lawn tickets for just$99 and see the Black Crows and Whiskey Myers, MGK, Neo and Akon, Death Cab for Cutie, Chicago and Sticks, Toto, Christopher Cross, and The Romantics, and many more. Get your friends and grab tickets now at LiveNation.com.

42:12alone very far from earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me, and I left it on the mic. That's great. Because it served the story. People will say, like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.

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45:05Last question of the day is a super fun one from Mark from the greatest of our 50 states. Asking again about parasites and tongues. Let's hear the question. Hi, Daniel and Kelly. This is Mark from Virginia. I recently read about a parasite that attaches itself to a fish's tongue, consumes the tongue, and then becomes the fish's new tongue. And I thought to myself, oh my gosh, how horrible for that poor fish. But it got me to wondering, as a parasitologist, what do you think are the three most nightmare-inducing parasites that are out there? I mean, the things that really make your skin crawl, you know, perhaps literally.

45:54I look forward to being repulsed by your answer. Oh, man. All right. Kelly gets to be creepy today. So I should say that the answer to this question kind of varies depending on the day that you're talking to me. And we've already talked on the show about screwworms, which totally creeped me out. We've already talked on the show about Ascaris lumbricoides, also known as roundworms. We talked about them in our dirt worms episode. Those really are very high up on my list of nightmare inducing parasites. So I'm going to talk about three other parasites that creep me out. And I don't mean to glorify these parasites.

46:31Some of these are like really horrible for people. But these are parasites that like when I hear about them, they make my skin crawl and they make me feel uncomfortable. Does that mean that you don't root for them? You know, it's the classic like cheetah versus antelope. Whose documentary are you watching? Who are you rooting for? Do you find yourself incapable of rooting for these parasites? When the parasites that I'm talking about are not inhumans, I am able to root for them. But I am a big fan of the humans. And so when they're inhumans, I am not rooting for them. Well, even though Kelly doesn't seem to care, I feel bad for all the other hosts that have to suffer through these parasites.

47:09All right. So what's the first nightmare topping parasite? Loa Loa. which is a kind of beautiful sounding name, but it is the African eye worm. I think Loa means worm. So it's actually worm worm. And you find this in like central and West Africa. This is a neglected tropical disease. It is a nematode that gets injected into you when you are bitten by a certain kind of fly. The adults migrate through your body and they have babies that end up, they're like tiny little worms that move through your blood and they get sucked up by flies when they take a blood meal. But the adults are what causes the symptom that really kind of makes me very uncomfortable, which is that they can migrate, including they can migrate through your eye.

47:58Oh, man. And so sometimes people will be able to see a worm moving around the outer part of your eye. Like you can see it from the inside. Like it's part of your vision is this like worm like swimming across your field of vision. I don't think it's moving across the part where you detect things, but people can see it in the white part of your eye. Wow. Imagine a worm, though, looking back at you from inside your eye. Not cool. Not cool at all. Wait, I have a question first about the earlier part of the life cycle, because this is something I never understand. A fly bites you, and it's previously taken some blood that has these worms in it, and now it's biting you, and the worms get into you.

48:39So number one, the worms have to be really, really small because they're going through a fly bite. And how do the worms go from the fly to you? Like the fly is drinking the blood. Is it backwashing into you? Like how does that happen? Yeah. So when the fly takes a bite from somebody who's infected, the parasites go into the gut of the fly and then they like infect the fly and they go through like multiple different stages inside of the fly. I'm not an expert in what happens inside of the fly. I'm not an expert in what I'm about to say either, but I know a little bit more about it. But like when malaria gets into a mosquito, it also goes through multiple stages and then it moves into the salivary gland of the mosquito.

49:19And so when the mosquito goes and takes a blood meal and injects a bunch of like chemicals into someone so that you maybe don't feel the bite. So like mosquitoes inject like anesthetics and stuff in there so that you're less likely to feel it. You get the parasite injected in also. I don't think that when flies bite, it's exactly the same, but it could just be that like some of it gets left behind or, you know, some saliva gets left behind and then the parasites sort of move their way in. We talked about how with kissing bugs, they just kind of like poop and then you scratch it in. So there's a variety of different ways for insects to make it into your body after a blood meal has been taken.

49:59OK, so it gets inside your body. And then what does it do when it's in there? If you get two adults, they find each other, they mate, they produce these tiny little offspring called microfilaria, and they start moving through your bloodstream. And they are small enough that if a fly bites you, they can get picked up by the fly and the cycle starts again. But in the meantime, the adults are sort of moving around your body, including sometimes into your eye. And is that the thing that freaks you out? Is that the part that makes the nightmares, the eyeball part? The eyeball part is what freaks me out.

50:34Yeah. I mean, imagine looking in the mirror and seeing a nematode moving around in your eye. And does that mean that they have to like pull the worm out of your eye? Like eyeball surgery to remove worms? Yeah. Yeah. So actually it's like moderately good news if you see it in your eye because now somebody can get it. Oh. Now somebody can put a knife on your eyeball. Yay. And extract the parasite. So now it's not in your body anymore. And so it can be removed surgically. So that is, that's, that's parasite number one that Kelly finds creepy. All right. So we wake up screaming from that one. We get ourselves somehow back to sleep.

51:15And then we have a nightmare about parasite number two. What's nightmare number two today, Kelly? Nightmare number two. We can enjoy a little bit more because it's not infecting people. This is a copepod. So this is another crustacean. And so another thing that you can think of as being kind of related to like crabs and crayfish and stuff like that. It has a name that I will absolutely butcher.

51:39Lernaeocera branchialis. I don't know what it is with biologists and Latin names. Like, why do you guys have to share Latin names? They mean nothing to anybody. Nobody can pronounce them. They don't help anybody understand. Like, seriously, why are we carrying all this baggage? Okay. Some of them have common names. There's a system for this. I actually went through all of the paperwork once to register a common name for a species so that you wouldn't have to bother saying the Latin name. It has an official common name now. But anyway, this one doesn't have an official common name. It has a Latin name.

52:09We are going to call it the, what are we going to call it? Blood sucking copepod. A lot of them are blood sucking copepods. But anyway, here, listen. All right. We're going to move on. We're moving on. It's a marine copepod that infects a bunch of different kinds of fish, including Atlantic cod. Part of why we know a lot about it is because people eat Atlantic cod. And so it's a fish of importance. We're going to skip a lot of the life cycle. It has like a free living stage. It has a stage where it lives on a different kind of fish. But what you need to know is that at some point, males and females mate.

52:45And then the females go off in search of a final fish to parasitize. And when the females go off in search of that final fish, she finds, and we don't know exactly how she finds the host. In other copepods we've looked, and it has to do with like chemical cues, stuff like that, but we don't know in this case. But she finds the gills. And so in fish, the gills are, you know, the way that fish extract oxygen from the water. But she finds the gills and she attaches to part of what's called a gill arch. So the gills kind of, you know, they have this like arch shape. She finds a part of the gill arch where there is an artery that goes from the gill arch to the heart.

53:28Ooh. And she has this appendage that she sticks into the artery. No, she doesn't. Yeah, she does. No. Yeah, she does. Don't do it. Don't do it. She does it. And it grows into the artery until it ends up in the heart. Oh my God, no. And she starts drinking the fish's blood from its heart. Straight from the heart. And so she's got like - It's cold. She's got like a mouth in the heart and she's drinking blood from the heart and then she's got like her back end sort of, sometimes outside the fish's mouth, but like the back end has a bunch of eggs and like every two weeks she produces a clutch of eggs that then she like, you know, she's able to produce because she's drinking all of this fish's blood And then she releases these eggs to produce more of her babies.

54:17And she can do this like almost every two weeks. And so anyway, she gets her energy from the fish's heart directly. And what do you think it feels like for the fish? Awful. So like these fish. Why am I laughing? I know. So they have anemia, which means they're like low on blood, which is not surprising. They lose weight. They have sores. They have like fewer babies. A lot of them die. If you're a smaller fish, when this happens, you're even more likely to die. Sometimes the fish can't close their mouths because the like the you know, the moms are so big that they're like, you know, their back ends are like making it hard for them to close their mouths.

54:58So their mouths will become kind of like deformed. This parasite is like really gnarly and creepy. And wow. Yeah. So that's number two. Oh, boy. You made me feel bad for fishies. Yeah. All right. So that's number two. And we're going to shake that off and ready to get freaked out about the next one. What's the next one? All right. The next one is raccoon roundworm. And I know how you feel about me saying Latin names. So for your sake and mine, I won't bother. So this is a nematode. It reproduces sexually in the guts of raccoons. What a romantic place to hang out. Wow. I know, man. Friday night in the gut of a raccoon.

55:39That sounds great. I know. If only we were nematodes, you know? So raccoons tend to poop in places called latrines, which essentially what you need to know is that they poop in like the same place. And often groups of them will poop in the same place over and over and over again. They're so organized. Well, they're like sort of clean. Yeah. You know, like I appreciate that. These are the animals that like wash their food, right? Yeah, right. And I think they're super cute. I like raccoons. They are cute, yeah. But never take them as a pet. And we are going to get back to that at the end of this discussion.

56:12So they poop in the same spot, but the eggs produced by the nematodes are deposited in that poop. And if a squirrel or like a rabbit consumes that poop accidentally, like, you know, maybe a nut falls by the latrine and a squirrel picks up the nut. And when it eats the nut, it accidentally consumes some of the eggs. Those eggs will hatch. Pro tip, if your nut falls by the latrine, let it go, man. Let it go, man. It's gone. Find another nut. Exactly. There's another nut out there. Move on. That's right. That's right. But it hatches and it starts migrating. And it can migrate through the eye. It can migrate through organs.

56:51It can migrate through the brain. And it starts causing like tremors and like just sort of nervous system symptoms. and it could be that that makes the squirrels more likely to die so that they get scavenged by the raccoons. But that's what it does. But unfortunately, every - Wait, raccoons will eat dead, like infected squirrels? Yeah. There's a lot of bad decisions going on here. I'm feeling less and less sorry for these hosts. Yeah, well - You eating poopy nuts? You eating dead squirrels? What do you expect to happen? Man, Daniel, I think you shouldn't learn any more about nature because you're going to stop being sympathetic about anything.

57:29And maybe you should know less about nature. But every once in a while, unfortunately, a human will get infected because sometimes, for example, the raccoons will set up their latrine in a kid's sandbox. And a kid will play in the sand and then stick their hands in their mouth. And the parasite will migrate through their eyes or through their organs or through their brain. Oh, no. I know. And there was no bad decisions there. That's just a kid in a sandbox. That's just a kid in a sandbox, right? And so that is very upsetting to me. It is upsetting. And I learned about this parasite a few years before I had kids, but it really stuck with me.

58:11And so anytime my kid wanted to play in a sandbox, I would first dig through with my hands and look for anything that looked like poop. And my kid was like— You're such a wet blanket, aren't you? I am. I know. My daughter was like, Mom, you're embarrassing me. And I was like, I won't be embarrassing you if you've got parasites migrating through your brain. And she's like, you are absolutely embarrassing me. Oh, wow. And to be – okay, so just before people start like absolutely freaking out, there have been fewer of 25 cases according to the CDC of this disease documented in the United States. Only because moms have been cautious and careful like you were.

58:46Congratulations. Thank you. Yes. Some cases might have gone undiagnosed. You know, probably not a lot of cases. good news is that eggs take two to four weeks before they become infectious. So like if you see a raccoon latrine being like formed in your sandbox or in your attic or something like that, you've got time to do something about it before it becomes infectious. The CDC has instructions for how to deal with this safely. The instructions include using a propane flame gun. So it could be fun. But it's definitely more fun than getting raccoon roundworm. Yeah, way more fun, way more fun. But again, do that safely or call in a professional.

59:26Make good choices, people. Make good choices. And if it's a latrine in your attic, probably you shouldn't use the propane flame gun. Again, make good choices. But another thing that was kind of funny, but not funny, morbidly funny. The CDC website said you can get raccoon roundworm when you consume infectious eggs, usually accidentally and i was like usually cdc usually who are the people who are consuming these eggs not accidentally but not people making good choices that's for sure that's right that's right yeah but anyway bottom line here i see a lot of instagram videos of people who are like feeding 20 raccoons in their backyard with like cat food every night and they're like look at all my cute raccoons and dudes raccoons are super cute but if you're bringing them to your backyard they're gonna be pooping near your house yeah you you really like wildlife should be respected at a distance and i get it because i really love wildlife raccoons are super cute but you you need you need to keep your distance yeah and if you really want a nightmare you should google raccoon eats baby's face.

1:00:39And yeah, that maybe already tells you everything you need to know. Don't let raccoons into your house. What the heck? Daniel, that's horrible. What a horrible note to end on. Well, Mark, I think what I had to say was pretty creepy, but what Daniel had to say was even creepier. Let's see what you have to say about all of the creepiness that we just brought your way. I hope that was the nightmare you were looking for. How could it not be? Hi, Kelly. Thanks for that truly terrifying answer. Every time I look in the mirror now, I will be checking to make sure there are no worms wriggling through my eyeballs.

1:01:13I will not be Googling raccoon eats baby's face, but I'm kind of excited about taking a flamethrower to any raccoon latrines I come upon to make sure I don't accidentally eat the poop and get nematodes in the brain. As always, thanks for making such a truly awesome show. All right, thank you very much to all of our questioners Questioners and everybody who writes in, we love, love, love hearing from you. We are like parasites. We suck energy out of your curiosity. Okay, that's not the energy that I thought you were going to go for, but let's lean in. Thank you, everyone, for sharing your questions.

1:01:51You don't suck.

1:01:59Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is produced by iHeartRadio. We would love to hear from you. We really would. We want to know what questions you have about this extraordinary universe. We want to know your thoughts on recent shows, suggestions for future shows. If you contact us, we will get back to you. We really mean it. We answer every message. Email us at questions at danielandkelly.org. Or you can find us on social media. We have accounts on X, Instagram, Blue Sky, and on all of those platforms, you can find us at D &K Universe. Don't be shy. Write to us.

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