Bryan Kohberger changes his mind. Son wants mother's killer back in court. Plus, Missing in America.

0:00With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank Guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. That's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash BankGuy. Capital One N-A member FDIC. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Well, now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back.

0:40So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Good morning, everybody. It's the start of another workday for the Dateline team. So this story is developing. It's right outside of Dallas. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.

1:14I am very curious about the motive. He has real doubts about it himself. They check her safe and that gun is gone. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's July 30th, and here's what's on our docket. In Kansas, a former Marine was convicted at trial of stalking his estranged wife and then strangling her. Now, her son wants to put him on trial again. The son has pointed out that Brian was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace. In Dateline Roundup, a judge weighs in on the prosecution's case against TikTok singer David. And emotions run high at the trial of the former labor and delivery nurse accused of murdering her three children as her ex-husband takes the stand.

2:03You could see how emotional it was for him. You know, he seemed to have trouble breathing at times. Plus, Josh Mankiewicz will be here with a preview of his latest season of Missing in America and why you should listen. If somebody hears this, thinks that maybe I know something about this, it could make all the difference. But before all that, we're heading to Idaho for a stunning development in the quadruple murder case that gripped and terrified the nation. It has been a little over a year since Brian Koberger stood before a judge and pleaded guilty to the murders of four University of Idaho students, Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kernodal.

2:45Did you, on November 13, 2022, enter the residence at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felony crime of murder? Yes. In return for his plea, the prosecutor agreed to drop the death penalty, and Koberger was sentenced to serve four consecutive life sentences at a maximum security prison just outside of Boise. The judge had these final words for him. The time has now come to end Mr. Koberger's 15 minutes of fame. It's time that he'd be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration. Now, it appears Koberger has changed his mind. This week, he filed a petition with the court asking essentially for a do-over.

3:29He says he was coerced into the guilty plea, that he is innocent, and he wants a trial. Here to help us understand what this could mean for the case and the families is Dateline producer Shane Bishop, who has covered this story from the beginning. Welcome back to the podcast, Shane. You bet. Hi, Andrea. Hey, Shane, before we get into what Koberger is claiming in this petition, let's rewind the clock. What evidence, Shane, did investigators say they had to zero in on Koberger? Well, the key piece of evidence was a drop of blood found on a knife sheath that detectives said the killer left near the body of Madison Mogan.

4:03Analysts then used DNA and genetic genealogy to link Koberger to the knife sheath. And a search of Koberger's computer record showed that he'd purchased a K-Bar knife and a sheath just months before the murders. Koberger pleaded guilty just a few weeks before trial. The victim's families had mixed feelings about that. We heard some emotional testimony at his sentencing. Let's take a listen. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human, a body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction. He chose evil. He feels nothing. You'll sit with it long after this is over. That is your sentence.

4:40And it was written on the wall long before you ever pled guilty. You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. Then, fast forward a year, here comes this petition. How much of a surprise was this to you, Shane? Well, I think it came as a complete shock. It certainly did to me, although in my experience, it's hardly uncommon for convicted killers to arrive at a state prison to serve their life sentences. and before long realized that forever is a long time, especially in a situation like Koberger finds himself in because he's in protective custody because of his notoriety and he's locked down 23 hours a day.

5:17Yeah, I didn't even realize he was in protective custody. Shane, walk us through this petition that he filed. I think Koberger's most startling claims have to be that he is actually innocent and that he was pressured by his defense attorneys to falsely confess to these murders. Kohlberger writes in his petition that his counsel told what he calls elaborate lies to him about life on death row and promised him that a life sentence would mean a number of things, including immediate contact visits, freedom of movement inside the prison, and employment. None of those are allowed when you're in the restrictive housing or protective custody like he is now.

5:53And the last thing Kohlberger claims is that his attorneys failed to disclose what he calls exculpatory evidence. So just to be clear, Shane, exculpatory means evidence that Koberger is saying could prove his innocence. Does he go into detail about what this evidence is that he's talking about? He does. He mentions in his petition that his attorneys didn't tell him about, quote, clumps of unknown hair found in Ethan Chapin's hands, end quote. Okay, so we really first heard about this hair from a book written by a former FBI agent who didn't work on this case. It's called Broken Plea. Shane, break it all down for us.

6:30The author says he interviewed a defense expert named Brent Turvey, who believes that this hair Koberger is referring to, and I should be clear, this hair has been variously described as a clump, a wisp, a strand, or even just as debris found in Ethan's hands. Turvey claims that this is all proof that more than one killer was involved. When the book came out, Koberger's former defense team pushed back, telling the Idaho statesman that Turvey was speaking on topics outside of his area of expertise. We know from other cases, Shane, that we've covered that it takes a lot to undo a guilty plea like this.

7:09It's extremely rare, right? Almost unheard of. Yeah, Andrea, Idaho Criminal Rule 33c says that once a person is convicted, a petitioner has to prove a manifest injustice occurred to set aside a plea after sentencing. Maybe the plea wasn't voluntary. Maybe it wasn't entered into knowingly or intelligently. Or the petitioner can claim there was inadequate representation. Seems like Koberger has maybe been reading some law books in prison. Does he mention ineffective assistance of counsel at all in this petition that he wasn't represented properly, which seems to be the crux of this, right? Yeah, that's exactly what he argued.

7:47But one veteran Idaho defense lawyer I spoke to believes it's going to be tough sledding for him. Lead attorney Ann Taylor and her team filed dozens and dozens of motions on Koberger's behalf. And that defense attorney told me, quote, they pulled out all the stops. They did everything that could have been done on Koberger's behalf. We should say we've reached out to Koberger's former defense attorney, Ann Taylor, to see what she thinks of all this. And at the time we're taping this, she has not responded. So, Shane, what is next for Koberger now that he has filed this? The original judge who took the plea, Stephen Hippler, will look at this post-conviction petition.

8:23He'll decide, yes, Brian Koberger will have an evidentiary hearing or no, he won't. If the judge says no, Koberger can then take it to Idaho's Supreme Court. But it seems like any answer on this is months or more likely years away. How have the families reacted to all of this now? You know, finally they were getting some peace. He pled guilty. And now it's all being brought up again. Haley Gonsalves' family is the only one to put out a statement. And their statement read in part, quote, We would have preferred a death penalty trial. We believe fully in the evidence. Instead, Brian Koberger received exactly what he asked for.

9:02a deal that spared his wife. Know this, he hates that life. He wants another chance to roll the dice. I would imagine if Koberger did somehow manage to get a new trial, that they would go for the death penalty, given that he's reneging on this deal or trying to. Maybe Kaylee's family, it's what they want. They've always wanted the death penalty very badly, and I think there's no doubt the prosecution would seek it. It's such a heartbreaking case, Shane, and I know you're staying on it. You've been on it for years. So we look forward to hearing from you again about how this proceeds. Yeah, I'll stay on it.

9:38Thanks, Andrea. Coming up, a former Marine stands trial in Kansas for stalking and murdering his estranged wife. But even after his conviction, her son says it's not the end of the story.

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11:15You can find our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.

11:25On Thanksgiving Day 2024, Ryan Woolham planned to have lunch with his mother, Monica McKay. But when he showed up at her house, he found her dead in the bathtub. Investigators immediately suspected foul play. Three months later, they arrested Monica's estranged husband, Brian McKay, accusing him of beating her and then drowning her. Brian maintained his innocence, and his defense argued investigators pinned her death on the wrong man. But after a nine-day trial, a jury convicted him. Last week, Brian walked into the Shawnee County Courthouse in Kansas for sentencing and came face-to-face with Monica's sons.

12:04It turns out they are not done pursuing justice for their mom. Dateline producer Keith Greenberg was in the courtroom and is here now to bring us up to speed. Keith, thanks for being here. Thank you, Andrea. I'm always happy to be here. Keith, let's start with some background on this couple, Brian and Monica McKay. What was their story? Monica McKay started out as a nurse. Then she worked her way up to becoming a hospital administrator. Brian is a Marine veteran. He served in combat in Iraq. And he also has a master's degree in electrical engineering. They were married in 2009. They had a blended family.

12:46She had two sons. He had a daughter. But there were always kind of hiccups in the marriage. And they divorced at one point. Then they reconciled and remarried. And at the time of the murder, they were in the midst of another divorce. Okay, so this time she was done with him. She wanted a divorce and they were no longer living together. And Keith, it was Monica's son, Ryan, who found her body. What did investigators think when they arrived at the scene? So investigators come by, and there she is in a half-filled bathtub. And although there's no visible signs of a struggle in the house, there are some signs of abrasions on her.

13:31The other thing that Ryan was quick to point out was that his mother didn't even use that bathtub. So, Keith, investigators, of course, wanted to talk to her estranged husband, Brian. What did he tell them? Yes. You know, after Brian moved out, he had purchased a new property and he was clearing away brush and, you know, trying to make this property into a place to live. And that's what he said he was doing part of that day. And he said he hadn't seen Monica or had any dealings with her since she filed a restraining order against him one month before she died. Tell us about that. She had a very bad feeling.

14:14As I mentioned, Brian has a master's in electrical engineering. He's technically very savvy, and she had the distinct impression that he was spying on her. According to the arrest affidavit, there was one instance where she was talking with a friend on the phone, and Brian texted Monica and was repeating some of the things she said, and he wrote, quote, the Alexa isn't private. So he was using her Alexa to listen to her. Yeah, and Monica's son, Ryan, told detectives he found covert recording devices, cameras, microphones hidden in her home. He believed, her son believed they were hidden by Brian, and that led to this protection from stalking order.

14:57I mean, her friends and family all felt the same thing. Keith, investigators found something else that was suspicious. A red Jeep was caught on security camera footage near Monica's home with similar characteristics to Brian's car. Yes, that's true. So in February 2025, Brian McKay was arrested and faced several charges, including first-degree murder and stalking. He pleaded not guilty and headed to trial in May of this year. You spoke, Keith, to the district attorney, Michael Kagey. What did he suggest was Brian's motive? He said he wanted money. He wasn't doing too well financially. But he, you know, he stood to profit quite a bit from accidental death insurance.

15:47And so he tried to create the guise of an accidental death. What is the defense's argument against all of these allegations? Well, interestingly, Monica was starting to date again. She had met a guy named Eric Lessig. And Monica and Eric went on their first date 12 days before Monica was murdered. And almost immediately, she gave him a key to her home. And so, you know, the defense's contention was, if you investigate a little further, you might find out that there might have been some things going on involving Monica McKay that didn't involve her husband. Yeah, I spoke with the DA and he emphasized to me that law enforcement did its due diligence.

16:34They looked at every possibility. And once again, it always came back to Brian. The defense also argued that the timeline didn't add up when we're talking about that red Jeep that the prosecution believed was Brian showing up at Monica's house. Yes, the defense goes, hey, you look at the time the red Jeep was there. Nobody could have committed this type of elaborate murder. in such a short period of time. The jury, Keith, was not convinced. Brian was found guilty. And that brings us to his sentencing. You were there in Kansas last week. Give us some color on what you saw in the courtroom. Her side of the courtroom was packed.

17:12They were just workers, friends, family members. She was very, very well liked. And, you know, the son spoke. Tyler, the older son, he mentioned his mother was a nurse. And he said, not only did she save countless lives, she brought life into the world. There was this feeling like the world truly was robbed of someone who was giving to it and not taking from it. The judge really threw the book at Brian. So the defense asked for 25 to life. And they spoke about his military service and how he had never been in trouble before. But it didn't matter. The judge sent 50 to life, and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever, you know, see a day of freedom.

18:01Yeah, and Brian is not done. He is facing another legal battle. Monica's son, Ryan, has filed a wrongful death suit against him. I went to a hearing in the wrongful death case, and the judge made it clear. A jury of his peers found him guilty of murdering Monica. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is how much the family is entitled to. Ryan Wollum, the son, has pointed out that in those weeks where Brian was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace, he feels that should be taken into consideration. It will be a bench trial with a judge and it will be like a real trial with witnesses.

18:49And so he's going through this again. When is this trial set to get underway? The trial is set to begin on September 23rd. Keith, thank you so much for bringing us this case, and we'll keep an eye out for this civil trial set to begin. Great. Thank you.

19:10Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. More details from the prosecution's case against accused murderer and TikTok star Singer David. And Lindsay Clancy's ex-husband testifies about her behavior in the days and hours before she killed their three children. Plus, Josh Mankiewicz on the haunting disappearance of a young woman from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana.

19:49team and every industry. TheSameMonday.com with built-in AI, scaling your work from day one. TheSameMonday.com that your team will actually love using. TheSameMonday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Yes, TheSameMonday.com.

20:15Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Sue, good to see you. Thanks for having me. First off, Massachusetts, where the trial of 35-year-old Lindsay Clancy is underway. Prosecutors allege Clancy, a former labor and delivery nurse, murdered her three young children and then jumped out of a second-story window. Her defense says she was suffering from some kind of psychotic break, and Lindsay has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. On Monday, we heard opening statements. Sue, tell us what we learned from the prosecution through their opening statement.

20:50Well, Andrea, the prosecutor, Jennifer Sprague, asked the jury to focus on Lindsay and what she did. She said that Lindsay had been interacting normally with other people in the hours before the murders. The prosecutor was trying to undercut the idea that Lindsay was somehow mentally unstable. This was a woman who acted intentionally, rationally and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal to kill. Sue, this has to be tricky for the prosecution because so many people are aware now of postpartum depression. And we've seen a lot of cases that end tragically this way. Did the prosecution offer up an alleged motive for the murders?

21:33Well, prosecutors said Lindsay didn't like her life and that she wanted to escape by killing herself. And that meant taking the kids with her. What did Lindsay's defense attorney have to say in his opening statements? Kevin Reddington started by describing Lindsay as a doting mother, someone who adored her children. He described Lindsay's growing struggles with her mental health and her determined but futile efforts to get help. He indicated that she was over-medicated, and he said it drove her into psychosis. And he didn't hide his scorn for the prosecution's alleged motive. This is not a righteous prosecution.

22:12They're looking for every single piece of evidence that they can to show some ridiculous concept that she wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she didn't want to be a mother anymore. So one of the elements of this case that has captured a lot of attention as well is that Lindsay's ex-husband Patrick Clancy is standing by her and is telling people not to judge her. We got to hear from him. We heard initially he was going to be a defense witness, but here he was for the prosecution. What did the prosecution want the jury to hear from him on this first day of the trial? The most important thing, Andrea, that they wanted from him was to hear his description of his children.

22:57And you could see how emotional it was for him. You know, he seemed to have trouble breathing at times. Cora was into princesses.

23:10And she had a lot of friends. What kind of things was Dawson interested in? He was in the firefighters and trucks. Alan? It was just a happy baby. That pain and that grief really brought home to the jury what was lost that day. The prosecution also focused on Lindsay's behavior leading up to the murders. They asked Patrick to remember some fun family outings, you know, going to a water park, going to the beach. And it all sounded so normal, not what you might expect from somebody, you know, suffering such a mental health crisis. And the prosecutor showed Patrick a bag of Lindsay's pill bottles and got Patrick to admit that he didn't know if Lindsay even took all the drugs she'd been prescribed.

23:53This has to be so hard for this man, my goodness. And we should say that Patrick was very clear that Lindsay had been struggling and he pushed back on the prosecutor at times. Lindsay switched providers. Yes. And why did she do that? Because whatever she was doing, it wasn't working. She was only getting worse. He testified that Lindsay seemed desperate and that she wasn't sleeping and she was talking about suicide. And at one point, she even talked about harming the kids. But he testified Lindsay seemed better right before the killings. Who else can we expect to testify at this point? The prosecution and defense both said that they would be calling several expert witnesses.

24:42Also, the defense has said we're going to hear from a hospital worker who was in the room when Lindsay woke up from her coma and heard her first words. OK, we will stay on top of that story as this trial continues. Next up, news out of California in the case of singer David, who was famous on TikTok, his legal name, David Anthony Burke. He is accused of killing 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Her remains were found in the trunk of David's Tesla last September. David has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him, including sexual abuse of a minor and mutilation of human remains. He has been in court in downtown Los Angeles for a preliminary hearing that we talked about on the podcast last week.