Lindsay Clancy’s defense. Luigi Mangione’s bombshell courtroom confession. Plus, ghost guns.

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1:27And then you've got this jailhouse informant. He said I overheard him. He told me everything. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news around the country, swapping tips and story ideas. We're on the cusp of hearing something. But that's where it gets murky. By sunrise, he's dead. It was a huge story. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's August 20th, and here's what's on our docket. In Manhattan, UnitedHealthcare CEO shooter Luigi Mangione makes a stunning admission. We heard from Mangione in his own words, actually describe the events leading up to the shooting in December 2024.

2:08In Dateline Roundup, the Alec Murdoch saga continues in South Carolina with some major rulings. And the first of three people charged in the murder of Microsoft employee Jared Bridigan is now on trial. Jared's widow takes the stand. She was immediately emotional. Plus, ghost guns. Police found one in Luigi Mangione's backpack. What exactly are they? And why do they make investigations so difficult? When you have a firearm that doesn't have a serial number on it, it isn't able to be effectively traced in the traditional method. But before all that, we're heading to Massachusetts for the trial of a former labor and delivery nurse accused of murdering her three young children.

2:51And a warning, some of what we'll be discussing is upsetting and involves mentions of suicide.

2:59After three weeks of testimony, prosecutors rested their case against Lindsay Clancy, the 36-year-old mother they believe was of sound mind the night of January 24, 2023, when she killed her three young children, Cora, Callan, and Dawson. Prosecutors called about 70 witnesses, including the children's father, Patrick Clancy, the psychiatrist who treated Lindsay, and the first responders dispatched to the horrifying scene. Jurors won't have to decide who killed the children. Lindsay already admitted to that. The question is, why did she do it? Lindsay says she was over-medicated and suffering from undiagnosed postpartum psychosis at the time.

3:43On Monday, the defense began calling witnesses, and jurors got to hear from those who knew Lindsay best. Here to walk us through their testimony is Nate Eaton of East Idaho News and host of the podcast Courtroom Insider. Nate, welcome back. Thank you, Andrea. Good to see you. Yeah, you too. So, Nate, the first witness the defense called was Margaret Hamp. She is a nurse who worked with Lindsay at the Labor and Delivery Unit at Mass General Hospital. Yeah, they worked together for about seven years. Margaret described Lindsay as a very compassionate nurse. She was kind. She really related well to the patients.

4:17She actually got emotional, often helping patients. When they were giving birth, it really touched Lindsay. She would cry and she would just say, that was so beautiful. You could just tell that she really loved being in that setting. And she went on to talk about how the two worked the night shift together. And Lindsay would often ask for parenting advice from her co-workers. Things like, how do I find the right daycare? To how do I monogram my lunchbox? box. She was a really involved mother. So Margaret Ham also described an instance where a patient arrived at the unit with plans to harm herself while she was pregnant.

4:54And she said this happened the summer Lindsay started working at Mass General. She recalled talking to Lindsay about mental health in pregnancy and postpartum. Right. And she actually asked her specifically if she had heard about the Andrea Yates case. Lindsay had not heard of it. Andrea Yates was the mother who confessed to drowning her five children back in 2001. She claimed she suffered severe postpartum depression. She was ultimately found not guilty by reason of insanity. Hamp described Lindsay's reaction to learning about the Yates case and says that Lindsay cried. And she said, how could a mother hurt her children?

5:33Lindsay's sister and mother were also among the first few defense witnesses. They described how Lindsay's mental state was deteriorating in the months before the children were killed. Here is her sister, Allison Osga, recalling how Lindsay was around Christmastime 2022. She was reporting her mood was worsening, as she described as depression. She was having more suicidal thoughts. Insomnia continued to be an issue. She was really not feeling like herself. Allison went on to say that Lindsay told her she had suicidal ideations every single day that month. Lindsay's mother, Paula Musgrove, she was asked about a text message Lindsay sent to her around that time, a little bit earlier than that Christmas.

6:24Yeah, and Lindsay's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, presented that text message, a message that Lindsay sent on October 20th. She had Lindsay's mother read that to the jurors. Mom, will you please come up and stay with me for a bit? I'm really sick. Something is wrong. I had horrible insomnia all night, and I just don't know how I'm going to get through the day. I started taking the medicine my doctor prescribed for anxiety, and I think it's made things worse. It's just really scary, and I don't want to be alone. Lindsay's mother went on to say that she stayed with her daughter for about a week after receiving that message.

7:03She testified that she stayed with Lindsay several other times in the months leading up to her children's death to help her daughter. And she said that Lindsay was so afraid to be alone that she even once asked her mom if she could sleep beside her, which she did. Lindsay also told her mom that she believed all the medications she was taking were destroying her mind. She said that she couldn't remember anything. She said, this isn't me. I just want to feel better and enjoy my kids again. Well, so Paula, her mom, told jurors that by Christmas, Lindsay was in a terrible state. And she remembered something else that was disturbing that Lindsay told her and Lindsay's then husband, Patrick Clancy.

7:49This is the first time we heard this, Andrea. Lindsay's mom described how Lindsay was very nervous when she told her mother and Patrick, I just have to tell you guys something. She told us that she had thoughts of harming the children. This is all very hard to hear, Nate. This is such a tough trial. How did Lindsay's mom appear on the stand? how painful for her to have to get up there in this courtroom of this very public trial and have to be talking about all this about her daughter. Yeah. I mean, she's testifying at her daughter's murder trial. It was an extremely emotional experience for her.

8:27Also, she's talking about the deaths of her grandchildren, whom she loved very much. She was a very involved grandmother. She became the most emotional talking about her three grandkids. I loved my grandchildren with all my heart. And you never know what it's like to love a grandchild until you become a grandmother. And it was the most beautiful thing. I love them with all my heart. So painful. Lindsay's mother wasn't the only grandmother to testify. Her former mother-in-law, Susan Clancy, also took the stand. Yeah. Now, remember, these are defense witnesses. So these are the witnesses backing Lindsay up.

9:10This is Patrick Clancy's mother, Susan, and Patrick Clancy was married to Lindsay and the father to their children. He's also standing beside her. He already testified in the trial. In fact, he was the first witness they called by the prosecution. So it's interesting now to see the mother testifying about how Lindsay reached out to her for help as well. Susan Clancy was a former labor and delivery nurse herself for 38 years. and she talks about referring Lindsay to a clinic at South Shore Hospital for Women struggling with postpartum. Right. Lindsay went to her mother-in-law and said, I need some help.

9:48And this is where it got kind of interesting. When the Commonwealth was presenting its case, they were certainly trying to paint Lindsay as a patient who didn't take her medications as had been prescribed. But Lindsay's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, asked Susan about this. She's answering both as a health care professional and as a grandmother here. Did you find that Lindsay was interested at all times in trying to get better and see doctors? Very much so. Did you find at all, do you have an opinion with your observations of Lindsay as to whether or not she was offered help and would just spurn it and not see doctors and not have treatment?

10:27She was begging for help. Nate, before we go, our local affiliate NBC10 in Boston, they've been in the courtroom and They've observed that more than half of the 18 jurors in this trial skew older, maybe in their 50s or above. Some may even be grandparents. It's an interesting demographic for a trial like this, right? Yeah, it is an interesting thing. But also think about the people that are involved in this case. You have Kevin Reddington, Lindsay's attorney. He's 75 years old, no-nonsense local guy who's done dozens, hundreds of trials over the years. He's held onto Lindsay's hand when she has sobbed during difficult testimony, kind of like in a grandfather or a fatherly kind of way.

11:08Then you have the prosecutors, both women younger, noticeably younger than Reddington. One often wears bows in her hair. And there's been multiple studies, Andrea, on how the age of jurors can impact deliberations. Those studies have found that older jurors are significantly more likely to convict versus younger jurors. But it's an interesting dynamic to see how this is unfolding every day. And we'll see if age really did play a factor at all or if it's more of a human type of connection or how these jurors ultimately reach their decision. And I know just as a mother of six, the more time that separates you from when you gave birth to your children, the more you start to forget how hard things can be.

11:52Absolutely. If you're going through this last year or within the past two years, you're going to remember far more clearer than if you were raising kids decades ago when the circumstances surrounding postpartum and mental illness weren't discussed as openly as they are now. Really good point, Nate. Well, we will keep an eye on this as the defense keeps calling witnesses. And, of course, a lot of people are waiting to see if Lindsay herself will testify. Feels like a tricky decision, but one she will have to make. Nate, thank you for these updates. Thanks, Andrea. Coming up, Luigi Mangione's double jeopardy battle and what's next after his plea.

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14:02On Friday, correction officers escorted Luigi Mangione into a lower Manhattan federal courthouse. He was wearing tan prison scrubs with his legs shackled. It will be two years this December since UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot and killed outside the Hilton Hotel in Midtown. Mangione had something to tell the judge. He pleaded guilty to two federal stalking charges, admitting he shot Thompson that chilly morning. But Mangione's saga is far from over. Less than an hour after the hearing ended, his defense team filed a motion asking to dismiss the eight charges he's facing in state court, including second-degree murder.

14:43He is still pleading not guilty to those charges, And now his upcoming state trial has been postponed indefinitely. NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett is here to break it all down and tell us what this means for Mangione. Laura, thank you for being here. So happy to join you. So we have both been covering this case for a while now, since the day of the shooting in December of 2024. There was the manhunt and then eventually the arrest of Luigi Mangione in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania. And so much has happened since then. But throughout it all, Mangione has maintained his innocence, Laura.

15:20Now here we are with him taking this plea. It is really big in this case. It's a really remarkable moment given just how aggressive and zealous this legal team has been. And even despite this guilty plea, my inbox is flooded with people saying he's not guilty, free Mangione. And so to have this moment where he finally, in his own words, had to admit that he was in fact guilty, it's just kind of stunning. Karen Agnifolo, one of Mangione's attorneys, she spoke outside of court after the plea hearing. Let's take a listen to what she had to say. Despite this being a single isolated event, Mr. Mangione has been unfairly treated since the outset in every way, fighting at the same time two simultaneous prosecutions in two jurisdictions who are trying to punish him twice for the exact conduct.

16:18Before we get to the actual plea, Laura, can you just give us a breakdown of what Mangione was charged with in both federal and state court? Yeah. Sometimes you see these sort of dual prosecutions going on parallel tracks. In this case, the feds came out swinging with a whole bunch of charges. They then, as a result of a bunch of defense motions, got whittled down to stalking. That's on the federal side. Then on the state side, he faces a charge of second degree murder as well as a number of gun charges. It's something that his attorneys, Andrea, have talked about double jeopardy as this principle of not being tried twice since the very beginning of this case when he was facing charges in Pennsylvania and in New York and on the federal and state level.

17:04And almost immediately, everyone sort of just brushed it aside as like, yeah, yeah, whatever. You can be tried in different jurisdictions. And only now in this moment, just weeks away from trial, does the whole prospect of double jeopardy really take on some salience because he is now, in fact, pled guilty and set to be convicted in federal court. This is like a game of legal chess, I feel like we're dealing with here. It's like a law school exam. This entire Mangione case is a law school exam. All right. So back to federal court. Just sort of give us some color in the courtroom. Who showed up to this hearing?

17:40So Brian Thompson's ex-wife and mother were there. We believe this is likely the first time they've actually been in the same room and confronted Mangione. They were emotional, as you might imagine, listening to him admit in open court to what he did. We did not see or have any reporting to suggest that anyone from Mangione's family was there. The judge asked Mangione to say in his own words why he believed he was guilty of the charges. So for the first time, we heard from Mangione, in his own words, actually describe the events leading up to the shooting in December of 2024. We heard him describe how he was in severe pain.

18:22He had back pain. He was navigating the health insurance industry. But we also learned, Andrea, that he actually reaches out to executives at UnitedHealthcare to learn the location of the investor conference where Brian Thompson was supposed to be in Manhattan. And he actually posed as an investor. And he said that he was managing over 50 billion in assets. And so he was requesting information about the conference for that reason. He talks about traveling to New York. He talks about how he got there. He talks about using the 3D printer to make the gun. Again, all of these little bits and pieces he's giving us, of course, as reporters, we want more.

19:00But they also are intentional, Andrea, because every time he talks about the gun, he's not just talking about it for like fun and to add detail. He's he's mentioning the gun because he's facing weapon charges in state court. So he wants to make sure he gets in all of the details so that he can encapsulate everything that could possibly come his way in state court to say, hey, look, see, I admitted everything in federal court. And we should be clear, Mangione wasn't offered anything in exchange for this plea that we know of, correct? No. So this is what's known as an open plea. And the prosecutors really wanted to emphasize this, because when we think about a deal, you think about like a tit for tat.

19:41someone got one thing, someone else got something else. Prosecutors want to emphasize, we got a guilty plea on the exact thing that we charged him with in the indictment. The state trial was set to go forward in just a few weeks, and that's why the timing of all this was so critical and so sensitive for him to get the federal piece of this buttoned up. Now that he has pled guilty in federal court and he has a sentencing date there, now we see in state court the judge postponing the state case because the defense is saying, well, he's now pled guilty. He cannot be tried twice for the same offenses, the same act, the same criminal transaction.

20:20Thankfully, New York law does not permit a person to be prosecuted and punished twice for the exact same crime under a statute that governs successive prosecutions. And we just filed our motion in state court explaining why the state charges must be dismissed under New York's double jeopardy protections. Laura, could something like this actually work? Yes, I think that there's actually a chance. The reason why, Andrea, is because New York law on this issue of being tried twice is very favorable to defendants. And it's much more all-encompassing than even the U.S. Constitution is when it comes to double jeopardy.

21:05The New York law says as long as it's all part of the same criminal transaction, then that person cannot be tried twice. What is the prosecution's response to this? And I'm talking about prosecutors in state court. Yes. So prosecutors in state court believe that this case should still go forward. They are going to fight her hard on this. Prosecutor's basic line will be this is not the same crime. This has different elements. So there's a stalking charge in federal court, which has a different element than a second degree murder charge in state court, for instance. Stalking and murder address different harms, and therefore you cannot see these two as the same for the purposes of double jeopardy.

21:50And he is still pleading not guilty to those state charges. That has not changed. As of this moment, he has still on record in state court having pled not guilty, but only saying that he believes the state charges should now go away entirely. OK, so as for his admission in federal court, federal guidelines for stalking suggest a sentence of 24 to 30 years. But the judge is not bound by that. So Mangione could actually face a much harsher sentence in prison. Laura, when will that sentencing take place? That will move forward to sentencing on December 18th. On December 10th, at the same time, the judge in state court is going to hear arguments from both sides about whether or not that case should still go forward.

22:37And so there's going to be a whole lot of paper flying in December around the holidays. Yeah, this is going to be a big month for all of this. Laura, thank you for so splendidly breaking this down for us because it is very complicated. And for those of us who are not attorneys, you're definitely making it a lot easier for us to understand. We appreciate that. Thanks. Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. Alec Murdoch is back in court ahead of his upcoming retrial. And one of the three people charged with murdering 33-year-old Jared Bridegan faces a jury. Plus, after Luigi Mangione's admission, we had questions about homemade firearms.

23:17A retired ATF special agent joins us to talk about ghost guns.

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25:04Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Carol Gable. Hey, Carol. Hey, how are you doing? Good. Up first, Carol, we are talking about former attorney Alec Murdoch. He was back in a South Carolina courthouse for his second pretrial hearing since his double murder convictions were overturned. And Carol, this is a saga you've been following from the very beginning. Remind us about the first murder trial and why Murdoch was granted a new one. So just to recap, Alec Murdoch went on trial in 2023 for the murders of his wife Maggie and his youngest son Paul. The jury found him guilty and he was sentenced to two life sentences.