Sean Combs: The last personal assistant and an interview with Joe Tacopina.

0:00This is On Trial, a special series from Dateline True Crime Weekly, bringing you daily coverage from the Sean Combs racketeering trial. He has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him. I'm Andrea Canning, and it's Friday, June 20th. Wednesday, court was canceled when one of the jurors got sick. And yesterday, court was dark for the holiday. Today, the prosecution resumed its case calling Brendan Paul, another Combs' assistant. He was arrested last spring when federal agents raided Combs' Miami and L.A. properties. Brendan is one of the last prosecution witnesses. So we have asked celebrity defense attorney Joe Tacopina to give us his assessment of the prosecution's case, how the defense has responded, and what to look out for as the defense takes over next week.

0:48That's coming up. But first, NBC News correspondent Chloe Malas was in the courthouse this morning for Brendan's very revealing testimony about Combs' day-to-day life in the past couple of years. Hey, Chloe. Hey, Andrea. So, Chloe, when these raids happened last March, federal agents searched two of Sean Combs' homes and they stopped him at a private airport in Miami. What happened there? So they went to go seize phones and other devices from Combs, his chief of staff, KK, and other employees, and that's when they arrested Brendan Paul, who was one of Combs' assistants. He had cocaine on him. So, Chloe, he testified that the cocaine belonged to Combs?

1:31So, yes, what we learned today during Brendan Paul's testimony is that he had found some white powder in Combs' hotel room. And so he put it in his bag and then he went to the airport and he forgot, he says, that he had it on him. And that when the feds showed up and they went through his bag, he testified that his stomach dropped when they found the drugs. But he did not throw Combs under the bus in that moment. He said, this all is mine. Chloe, the seizure of the phones and devices you talked about, it's really important because it's a big reason we've seen so many text messages and voicemails and emails in this case.

2:10What was on Brendan Paul's phone that the prosecution particularly wanted to focus on? It really gives us, Andrea, an inside look at everything that was going on behind the seams of Combs' life and how it all worked between the assistants and KK. So there is a photo that we saw today while Brendan Paul was on the stand. It had ecstasy and something called 2C, which is ketamine in it. This is a photo taken in early 2023 inside Combs' office at his Mapleton home in California. And he took this picture because it was left on the desk. And he said that he sent the photo to other assistants to ask, where should I put this?

2:53And you're also seeing text messages between Brendan Paul and drug dealers, as well as other assistants. We also saw a photo that he had taken of baby oil and Astroglide in some sort of like a cabinet in Combs' home because he was actually sending it to somebody else on the team, showing them this is how you organize all of it. It all comes back to the baby oil in the end, though, doesn't it? It does. And the Gucci pouch. What was in the Gucci pouch? Right. So the infamous Gucci pouch came up again. Yes. So the Gucci pouch, according to different testimony in it, were different types of drugs and cash and that it was either Combs who would be holding this and taking it with him in cars and to these freak offs or also on private planes.

3:36But also it was the job of the assistants to make sure that he always had it. But Brendan testified under cross-examination that he was not a drug mule, that he only bought drugs five to ten times for Combs, that this was not something that he was doing all the time. And these were not kilos and kilos of drugs. These were small amounts for personal use. And you really saw Brian Steele trying to hammer home the point that Combs would get more creative while he was working on music while on drugs. I mean, I kept thinking back to like the 1960s and the 70s, Andrea, of all different types of musicians that were very proudly on all different types of drugs while they were making some of their greatest hits.

4:18And I'm not justifying drug use or buying drugs or any of that. But Steele also on cross-examination of Brendan Paul said, you really learned a lot, right, from Combs. You enjoyed being around him. And Brendan Paul said, yes, he learned a lot. This was a job he really wanted. And Brendan testified that he did other things for Combs as well, besides getting drugs for him. Yeah, I mean, everything from packing and unpacking Combs' suitcase. Remember, he was a personal assistant. He would go places before Combs got there and set it up. And he also talked about working on the Love album that dropped while he was working for Combs.

4:54But he also did talk about setting up those hotel rooms for freak-offs. Brendan testified that he would do all of this in close coordination with Christina KK, who was the chief of staff and with other assistants. So because of that, there were a lot of group chats that came out of this. Why were those important? The point of showing these group chats, Andrea, is because the prosecution has maintained that Combs was running a criminal enterprise and using different employees to carry out illegal activity. And so you saw that KK had oversight into really so much of Combs' life, that she was the intermediary between a lot of these assistants and even some of the women that he was dating.

5:37And the big question is, where is KK? And will we see her on the defense next week? I've heard no. Yeah, I'm so curious about that. Chloe, did Brendan have anything to do with the hotel nights? He did. He would get the baby oil and he testified the Astroglide and, you know, even buy soup. It seems like Combs wanted soup in these hotel rooms. And he would sometimes bring professional lighting and he would also clean up afterwards. But Brendan testified that these were nights that were personal for Combs. The defense asked if he thought these hotel nights, king nights were criminal. And he said no.

6:18That's right. Right. And on direct examination, you had the prosecution saying, OK, so you brought Combs cash on one of these nights? And he said, yes, five thousand dollars. But you don't have Brendan Paul being able to say what was the cash used for. Right. I mean, Combs is a wealthy man. Wanting five thousand dollars brought to him is not illegal. Brendan Paul, like another personal assistant who testified last week, testified that he never saw or heard Jane express that she didn't want to do these nights. That's right. Brian Steele said, did she ever seem upset afterwards or sorry? Brendan Paul testified no.

6:58He said, did she ever seem like she didn't want to participate in these nights ahead of it? And he testified no. And Brendan Paul said that he saw Jane after almost every single hotel night. And again, remember, he was granted immunity to testify. So you would think that he's telling the truth because he can't be prosecuted for anything he says as long as he is being honest. Brendan also testified that although he worked a lot of long hours for Combs, he never resented it. Brendan testified that on one occasion he worked for several nights without sleep. but that was what Combs and other employees were doing too, because they were putting out the love album.

7:39And on redirect, the prosecution asked, how do you feel about Sean Combs? Some of his final words on the stand were that his feelings toward Combs are complicated. And I think that's what you're seeing, Andrea, with several of the witnesses. Chloe, last time we talked, there was a issue brewing with juror number seven. What has happened with that? The judge decided that he can stay After all that hullabaloo and back and forth, but who knows what's going to happen in the next week or two. All right, Chloe, when we come back, we'll hear from defense attorney Joe Takapina, who has represented Michael Jackson and the rappers Meek Mill and A$AP Rocky.

8:17We have asked him to join the show today to give us his impression of the job Combs' stacked defense team has done so far.

8:32Welcome back, everybody, and welcome, Joe. Thank you for being here. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Chloe. You're getting both of us. Wow. So, Joe, to start out with some transparency, Combs' team approached you to join his defense team, right? Yes. I met with Combs a few times in the federal prison, and I declined, obviously, to get involved because of a host of things, timing. I just came off a six-week trial in Los Angeles with the ASAP Rocky case. And it just wasn't, you know, for me, a case of this magnitude, you know, you need a year to prepare this properly. At least I do.

9:09That's how I do it. But there were some other factors as well that I'll feed to myself. But listen, you know, I do think it's a defensible case in some regards. Others, maybe not so much. But I'm glad I made the decision I made, let's put it that way. Joe, you met with Sean and I realized they were private conversations. Can you give us any insight into his demeanor? Was he confident, arrogant, desperate, scared? You know, how did he seem? Not arrogant. I wouldn't say confident or scared, but just, you know, in this vortex of this maelstrom of stuff coming at him and he knew he was getting ready for it.

9:47He seemed to me, and he actually said to me, that he's a different person now. And I could see that. The guy that we've heard about and looked at and watched was abusive. But he also said that. He goes, I was different back then. I was someone who, I was so jerked up on drugs at all times. Yeah, and in prison, presumably, he does not have access to drugs. No, he doesn't. But the bottom line is this. He is someone who regrets his past contact. So I think, you know, he understands what this looks like. I also think he understands that, you know, the day after he allegedly raped Cassie, she sent him a very nice text message that I saw.

10:30I think the jury is now saying, you know, that's hard for a jury. Everyone reacts differently, Andrea. I don't want I think sex crimes prosecutor. So I don't want to say here's how you have to react. There's no blueprint for this stuff, right, when you're a victim. But on the other hand, this is all fair game. Why do you think this is something that the feds pursued versus this being in state court with domestic assault, rape? I mean, there are some things that have been brought up that are not, you know, past the statute of limitations. Jane, who testified, she claims domestic violence in 2023.

11:05She claims all sorts of things that are recent. What do you think the Fed saw when they looked at Diddy and they looked at this? Diddy. I think they saw Diddy. I think they saw a big target, a big prize. Look, here's how you know that's the case. He's charged with the violation of the Mann Act. The count that actually, if you want to be a legal analyst, pure straight down Broadway, he's in trouble on that one. Because it's simply a federal offense to transport prostitutes over state lines for prostitution. That's it. So he can't get out of that one. Well, he can, but it's like an antiquated charge.

11:40It's like charging out the phone with tax evasion. I mean, you know, you had Elliott Spitzer, the New York governor, who was dead to rights on that. He admitted he did that. His phone records, his emails, he was finished. He was dead. The federal prosecutors in the Southern District looked at that case. They didn't charge him. The violation of the Mann Act is a very, you know, curious charge, just for it that way. And honestly, factually, there really is no defense. Penny Garagos, in our opening statement, tried to say, well, but he wasn't paying them for six. He was paying them for their time.

12:11It's the best they can do on the defense side. You know, really what they have to vote for here is that the jury is like, ah, you know, this case is about baby oil, about applesauce on cheeseburgers, about the most horrific things I've ever seen. But a racketeering enterprise, I do not see. And I don't think— But isn't that called jury nullification? That's what it's called. They could go in closings and say, all right, you want to hit him with transportation to engage in prostitution, then throw all professional athletes in prison, throw a bunch of celebrities in prison. What do you suggest that the defense does in closings?

12:50You can't say, well, then every other athlete who's done this, and Elliot Spitzer, the things I just said, you can't say that to a jury. It's not part of the evidence in this case. There's no evidence that every professional athlete or all this other stuff. But you can't say it without saying it. Well, you have to basically say this, ladies and gentlemen, I think you know what's going on here. I think you understand the landscape. Violation of the Mann Act, you are the conscience of this community. Yeah, it's judge, whatever his name is, courtroom. It says it right there on his flap. But when it comes to what's right in our community, you are the judge of the facts.

13:21When it comes to if what was done here was fair, you are the judge of the facts. Don't let anyone tell you how you have to vote on any count. because if you think what was done here was selective, unfair, unjust, then you get the last word. No one could tell you what your vote has to be. You have to sort of say something like that. I mean, I just did that. But there's a way to do it without getting shut down by a judge. You don't need a federal judge to tell you you're making inappropriate arguments in front of a jury. So, Joe, as we wind down the prosecution and get ready to start the defense, how would you tackle the defense strategy?

13:56The defense case is a case of reasonable doubt. Let's be real. I mean, it sort of was the same with my ASAP rocket trial. And the judge will give an instruction on what a reasonable doubt is. It's a very powerful charge. And I spent a lot of time in my last trial focusing the jury on the term reasonable doubt and what it really means. Do you have a doubt based on a reason? If you do, nah, I'm kidding. That's what they have to focus on here. I wouldn't get too bogged down and bring on much of the defense case. Their defense was through cross-examination, chopping up witnesses, getting inconsistencies brought out, motives brought out, and putting them on the stand.

14:28I understand they're not going to now, thank God. That would have been—we, first of all, would be covering this case until December, number one. The cross-examination would go on for months. But there's just things we can't answer. And it would take away from all deficiencies in the prosecution case, in my opinion. When you say reasonable doubt, Karen Reed pops into my head, given what we've been through this week. your best guess. I know every jury's different, but do you think Diddy could see some prison time? He could, and he could not. I mean, I'm not in there. I'm not looking at the jury, although I will tell you, having tried 120 jury trials, when I look at a jury, it's not like you get really any insight.

15:06You just don't. And sometimes, more often than not, you get misled by a face or something where you think you're reading something. Oh, they like me. Oh, they don't like me. That's why I specifically have stopped looking at jurors when I try cases. I'm laser focused on what's ahead of me I can't control what they're thinking other than my performance but I think look they can clip him on everything okay they can nail him on everything and the reason they could is not because I think they've proven a racketeering enterprise I don't think they have I don't think they've proven sex trafficking but their goal in this case was in part to get the juror to hate this guy so much and based on the evidence in this case he's hateable I mean, it really is.

15:47I mean, it's just the way he treated normal people, let alone his girlfriends. Listen, there's a reason they played that tape like 15 times already. They're going to play it five more times than an estimation. I mean, that tape is an incident of domestic violence. Now, they're going to argue it means other things. I understand that. But, you know, you sort of reduce the impact of that, the power of that tape when you play it over and over and over. The next time a jury sees it, they're going to be like, okay, here we go again. Some jurors could say, hey, they're overselling their hands here. You know, that's sort of what I would do.

16:21Well, we will see. Joe, you are a legendary attorney, and we are honored that you came on the podcast. We're so appreciative, and you gave us such good insight into this. Thank you. Thank you so much, David. Thank you very much for having me. Chloe, thank you for having me. And, okay, guys, we'll speak to you. Thank you so much, Joe. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with a new episode on Monday. If you want to read the latest developments and analysis from inside the courtroom, check out the NBC newsletter Diddy on Trial. Go to NBCNews.com slash Diddy to find that. On Trial is produced by Frannie Kelly with help from the Dateline True Crime Weekly team.

16:58Our senior producers are Alison Orr and Liz Brown-Korloff. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

17:13Thank you.