Secrets in the Ashes

28:47He was telling me how he just didn't understand. And I said, you don't understand what? Like how the fire started? And he said, no, I just I don't understand how John got out. I put plexiglass so thick on those windows and I cocked it up so much a grown man couldn't kick those windows out. Did you say why would you do that? No, I didn't ask him why. What I looked, I looked at him and I said, well, be grateful that he did get out. Yeah. And he just looked at me and he didn't say anything else. You want to be hearing from a father, thank God he got out, not how did he get out. That's what you'd think.

29:28That was not his reaction. The constable also met with Allison's friend, Keisha Ringland, who had a story about Delbert. It was the holidays of 2007. my husband and I had gotten into a really, really, really bad fight. Keisha went over to Delbert and Allison's house for support. And she says this is how Delbert offered to help. Delbert told me that he knew a way that he could get rid of my husband and make it look like it was an accident. And he was like, I can kill him. I can set the apartment on fire and make it look like an accident. And I remember thinking to myself, who would say something like that?

30:09What are you thinking about what Keisha is telling you? I mean, these are very damning statements. She's repeating what I've been hearing from other people about Delbert. Thompson had been going through the file and found other witnesses who'd been interviewed years earlier. And would you state your name, date of birth? Sherry Lynn Dennell. Sherry Dennell was Allison's cousin by marriage. Years earlier, she told Detective Madrigal that she heard a drunk Delbert boasting about killing his wife. He was talking about putting boxes in front of the doors to block her way. So Delbert said he had turned the gas on when he left to work that morning.

30:48And of course, Investigator Thompson listened to the interview with Delbert's wife, Allison. He would do the same thing to me that he did to Patricia. Allison had recanted, but now she and Delbert were divorced. You bring her in? I brought her into my office. We talked. Allison told Thompson her original statement was true. So this is a big deal. This statement that she's making. Yes. He actually told her, I'll do to you what I did to Patricia. The constable brought his case to then DA, Mike Shepard. He has pieced together with little pieces of evidence a case that strongly suggests that Delbert Mills killed his wife.

31:32He had talked to all the peripheral witnesses who helped put the full picture together. So you're all in agreement, let's bring in Delbert. Yes. Does that happen? It does happen. Would you spike your name? Delbert. A Texas Ranger named Todd Reed and a second investigator questioned Delbert as Thompson watched from another room. Got my stuff ready for work and everything. Left the house probably roughly about 6.30. Delbert said he left Patricia Lee and John sleeping safely with no sign of any fire. He got to work by 7. Sometime after 8.30 came the call. His house was on fire. By the time I got there, the fire trucks was there.

32:15There was an ambulance there. He said he flagged down a first responder. And she told me, she said, Delbert, Patricia didn't make it. Yeah, it still jokes me up to talk about it. And I said, it can't be. Delbert starts the interview by saying he still gets choked up just talking about it. Yeah. Did you buy that? I don't think that was a real emotional reaction. I thought he was staging it. Tony, he thought he started the fire. I have no idea if that's what I want to know. He must have some kind of idea. From what I can gather and stuff, from what I've been told, it was an electric fire. Did you burn the house?

32:58No, I did not. You know, as I knew, it was an electric fire, and that's what I was told. We know for a fact that you told several people that you burned that house down and killed your wife. No, I did not. Are they lying? Yes, they're lying. And the story that he and Allison started their relationship before the fire? He tried to deny that, too. I don't remember whether I kissed her or not. If I did, I never did get caught. because Patricia didn't catch me kissing her. Did you hear what you just said? Yeah, I said, I know what I just said. I said, if I did, I never got caught. You never got caught.

33:35So you're saying you did? No, I'm not saying I did. I'm not saying I didn't because I don't remember. Delbert agreed to come back a week and a half later and take a polygraph. Delbert took the polygraph. Delbert failed the polygraph. The failure of the polygraph is telling me as district attorney, we probably got our guy. Yeah. But I can't show this to a jury. We've got to get a little more. After investigators told Delbert he failed the polygraph, they questioned him again. And now his story started to change. Maybe he did have an idea how the fire started. Put my cigarette in the ashtray or on the ashtray, I don't know which.

34:11Where was the ashtray? Sitting on the coffee table. And when I went out the front door, when I slammed the front door, that lamp fell. If that lamp would have fell, it would have hit the couch and hit the coffee table. And I think that's what started the fire. It's still hard to admit that I may have started that fire. Of particular interest to investigators, where Delbert says the fire may have started? The living room. In his statement, he pinpoints the actual origin of the point of fire, which is one of the few things we had that was useful from our fire investigation. He would not have known that.

34:48That was not public record. Only the killer would know. Only the killer would know. Though Delbert had told multiple stories over the years about how he started the fire, investigators had a theory of their own. What we surmised he did was put a candle in a pool of lantern oil and let it burn down. Giving him time to get to work before the fire started, investigators had heard enough. Eight years after Patricia Lee's death, Delbert was arrested for first-degree murder. How good did it feel making that call to Sharon? It was pretty good. You don't get that kind of opportunity every day. Yeah. You get emotional just thinking back?

35:31At times. What gets you so... Don't tell anybody. You'll ruin my reputation. Delbert was in jail at last, but a question remained. There's no way he did it by himself. There's absolutely no way. I always thought she's more involved than anybody really knows. Yeah. I don't see how she could not be.

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37:37It was 2011, eight years after her Aunt Patricia Lee's death, when Jessica got a call. My mom called. And she said, they got him. And I said, they got Delbert? And she was like, yeah, they just arrested him. Mike just called me. She just cried. We sat on the phone and I remember her saying, we got Emily. You can rest now. This was a long time coming. It was a long time. John Michael was a teenager when his father was arrested. If he did this, he had to know that you were in the house as well. It's disturbing. To kill your wife, but then, you know, to potentially kill your young son. I guess that's what happens when you want to move on with your life with somebody else.

38:36And investigators had questions about that somebody else. She struck me as just a squirrely witness. She'd flip-flopped. She had at one time exonerated Delbert before vigorously trying to get him convicted. Over the years, Allison had offered up information to help the investigation. But Constable Thompson asked her to take a polygraph. Did she agree to take it? She agreed to take it. How did she do? She showed deception. She failed it. If the investigators were right that Delbert lit a candle in a pool of lantern oil to construct an alibi. It was a clever plan. Delbert wasn't smart enough for that.

39:18Allison was. Delbert wasn't. Delbert just acted it out. Delbert didn't have much education. No. Though Delbert now denies ever claiming he went to West Point, Jessica says he lied about his education. Not a lot of people get into West Point. But that was part of Delbert. He was a pathological liar. So was Delbert just the brawn while Allison was the brains? Even though there was no hard evidence linking Allison to the crime, that was Jessica's theory. I felt like she was the one that came up with the idea to set this fire and for him to get to work so that he'd have an alibi. Do you think Allison played a role in your mom's murder?

39:59Oh, definitely. I mean, they were having an affair together. I always thought she's more involved than anybody really knows. Yeah. I don't see how she could not be. And there was something else in the case file that pointed to Allison, something her cousin by marriage, Sherry, had said back in 2005. Sherry had some pretty damning statements to make about Allison that she says Delbert told her. Delbert told her that they had planned it. He said that he was glad the bitch was damned, that he's glad that, yeah, Allison had thought of the plan to kill her and that he went ahead and done it. You know, her and him done it together.

40:50This is the first person, really, to bring Allison into this in a big way. Into the actual planning and execution of the fire, yes. But Prosecutor Shepard knew that part of Sherry's story about Delbert couldn't be used in court, it would be hearsay and inadmissible. I mean, as hard as Mike worked on this case and as many people as he talked to, at the end of the day, we had zero competent evidence on Allison. Lots of suspicion, my own included, but no evidence. Allison was never charged with anything relating to the fire. Delbert Mills went on trial in January of 2013, waiving his right to a jury in favor of a bench trial.

41:35After just three days of testimony, the judge gave his verdict.

41:46Guilty? Guilty. What was his reaction to that in the courtroom? He just hung his head. The whole trial, he kind of looked like a whip dog. And that did not change when the verdict came out. Delbert was sentenced to life in prison. And sometimes it takes a while. I mean, it took 10 years, but it got it, so. It got done. You gave just a heartbreaking victim impact statement in the courtroom. And you faced your father. I had to. I mean, that was the only time I'd be able to ask him that question, you know, face-to-face. Delver, why didn't you take away the one who had all addressed it? The truth is the lead didn't love me.

42:28without her heart and my soul, my brother. Why? Why? Why did you have to take the one person who loved me more than anything?

42:42That unanswered question hung in the courtroom and hung over the lives of everyone who knew John Michael and his mother. And in the years ahead, the questions would only multiply. There are going to be people who find what you're saying right now despicable. Mm-hmm. And Allison, she would chart a new life as entrepreneur, podcaster, and politician. Hi, everybody. I'm Allison Salinas, and welcome to Citizen Watch. But what was her next plan? Something's going to happen, because that's my only way out. Can you see, though, the similarities between the two cases? You're the common thread.

43:34Seven years after Delbert Mills was convicted of murder, and about 300 miles north of that Goliad County courthouse, James Turrentine's phone pinged with a new message. He didn't recognize the number, but when he opened it, the name rang a bell. It was something along the lines of, Hey, this is Allison, I don't know if you remember me. It was Allison Mills, Delbert's ex-wife. She was my first real girlfriend. James dated Allison when they were in high school. Now, nearly 30 years after their teenage breakup, she was reaching out. How random was that? Very random. It was such a long time to go by.

44:12What does she want? Just to reconnect? She wanted to spend a lot of time discussing our lives where we've been in the past 28 years. What had been going on in your life, and what did she say had been going on in hers? I'd been living my life. You know, I'd been through some things, but, I mean, she told me that she had been married a couple of times, and she told me that she had been married to a guy who had murdered his wife. That's a lot. Yeah. What kind of questions did you have when she told you that her husband had been convicted of murder? I thought it best not to ask a lot of questions.

44:51It seemed more appropriate to me at the time to express sympathy, because that's a lot to deal with. Did she tell you what had happened? She said that he'd locked her in a house and set the house on fire. That was the extent of it. A few years after Delbert was convicted, Allison left Texas with her three daughters and started over in central Illinois. She had a new life and a new name. She was now Allison Salinas, remarried to a contractor named Patrick Salinas. She told me she was an entrepreneur. She said she was selling things online. Kind of made it sound like life was great for her. Allison had gone to college and was active in her new community in greater Peoria.

45:34I'm going to talk about a few things going on. She hosted a political podcast. Hi, everybody. I'm Allison Salinas, and welcome to Citizen Watch, where your voice matters. And she told James she had political aspirations herself. She made a primary run for the U.S. Senate, trying to get on the Republican ticket. Allison was running for U.S. Senate? What did she tell you about that? She said that she wanted to change things in the country, and it kind of surprised me. The local news covered a series of rallies Allison organized to support police. We need to bring out the human side of these cops to show them they're just like us.

46:11They're no different than us. I thought that's bold to be out in the public spotlight like that. But I wish her the best of luck. The campaign ended before she could get on the ballot. She dropped out, citing a cancer diagnosis. She told me that she'd been a cancer survivor. And then a few months, I guess, into our conversations, she mentioned that the cancer was back. James says Allison told him she couldn't afford her treatments. She asked him for money. That just seemed rather suspicious. And when I didn't answer her texts right away, she responded with, wow, like I had done something wrong.

46:49Like you weren't jumping to say, I'll give you the money. Yes, trying to make me feel guilty. And to me, that just seemed really manipulative. And I told her, I said, this feels like a scam to me. I'm not going to do it. So after this whole, like, asking for money for cancer, you decide to do a search? Yes. And what did you find? I found Facebook pages online where people complained about her by the hundreds. Hundreds? Hundreds. Just one after another after another. One of those people on Facebook was a woman named Kate Elliott. Kate first met Allison at a church in Peoria's East Bluff neighborhood.

47:32They were both volunteering to help plan a community fundraiser. Was she new to town at this point? Okay, so how did she even hear about it? There were flyers passed out through the neighborhood, and there is a Facebook page that also asks, you know, if you have any ideas for a fundraiser. You know, we're all meeting at a church. Her idea was a concert. Yes. She wanted to call it the East Bluff Jamboree. She came in and said that she had connections and she was going to have Nellie, Brad Paisley, and Gwen Stefani come to our little 250 seat amphitheater. Kate knew immediately that it sounded too good to be true.

48:10Allison started talking about, and Brad Paisley is going to be from this time to this time and Nellie from this time to this time. She started Googling the artists and saw they were booked to be in other places the day of the fundraiser. I'm telling her these things, and she goes, oh my God, I'm going to message their PR people right now. And she gets on her phone and starts, you know, typing away. And I said, you're messaging their PR people right now? She was like, yeah. She's like, I can't believe this. And I said, let me see. And she needed to go to the bathroom. And she went to the restroom.

48:43Did she come back? She did not. Kate was convinced Allison was planning some kind of scam. and the ease with which Allison pitched her A-list lineup told her this wasn't the first. With a degree in criminology, Kate trusted her instincts and began investigating Allison's past. You made it your mission to start warning people about her. Absolutely. I made a Facebook post that had every scam I could find about her and I left that public. Which is how she and James connected. But what they knew about Allison was just the beginning. You find some posts that are taking your suspicions to a whole new level.

49:24Oh, yes.

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51:08By the time Kate and James started comparing notes about Allison Salinas in 2022, Kate had posted her story about the fundraiser on Facebook. In response, she heard from dozens of people with similar allegations about Allison. Over the years, there's been so much more that's come out and she's never stopped. Right. Your allegation is she would organize a fundraiser, promise big names, sell tickets, then not deliver. Absolutely. I want to talk about this gala for the men and women in uniform. Allison was to host a charity gala honoring first responders as part of her Senate campaign. She booked the event with venue director Patty Green.

51:45So this was the event space. This was the event space, what it was to look like with the red, white and blue. She wanted it very nice, over the top. I mean, it was all orchestrated perfectly because she had down to the menus what they were going to do. All those little touches. Exactly. Tickets sold for$125. Allison said proceeds would go to local first responders. But a few days before the event, Patty says she started getting calls from concerned guests. What were they asking? They were saying, is this event really happening? Because, you know, we're not getting any information from her. She's not returning our phone calls.

52:24And are you trying to reach out to her again? Oh, yes. So then she just, she wouldn't answer my phone calls. She wouldn't answer my emails. So she's ghosting you. You're 100 % ghosted at that point. And there's this big event that is supposed to happen. Absolutely. According to the contract, Allison owed the venue nearly$10 ,000. She asked me to be her public relations manager. Brandi Dunn says she worked on Allison's Senate campaign for months. She and her husband Michael were also supposed to work the gala. Were either of you paid for your work? No, never. Not a dime? Not a single dime. How much money were you owed?

53:00$12 ,000. The Dunns sued Allison, hoping to recover their losses. Allison's campaign released a statement contesting the amount. The suit is still pending. So my name is Allison, and I'm a four-time cancer survivor. And remember how Allison asked James for money for her cancer treatments? Kate thinks it's all part of a con. My daughter Mary, she is completely in love with Close Malone. And I just want to see if anybody can get this out to him and give him a shout out so he'll see it. She would love to see him. You claim she used the cancer to get perks. Absolutely. So she got VIP treatment at Tiffany's concert.

53:36She had VIP treatment. She definitely did. You could see her with the singer. On stage, behind stage. Allison has said publicly that she's beaten several types of cancer. You believe Allison was lying about her cancer. Allison can't even keep track of how many times Allison's had cancer. Every time something goes wrong, she has cancer. So she stopped the Senate campaign because she had cancer. She stopped the bakery because she had cancer. The bakery, as in the Busy B's Bakery, a business Allison started after her failed Senate run with financial backing from family. The bakery, not the best reviews all the time.

54:17It was dead in the water before she opened. So you think she wasn't, they weren't even making the product? 90 % of things, no. And the ones that she did make, you can tell she made them. It looks like a three-year-old helped. Busy bees closed after a few months. Family members who invested in the bakery say Allison lied to them about the business and has yet to repay their money. And former employees filed claims with the State Department of Labor saying they were never paid. Allison defended herself on the local news. I told them I would figure it out and make sure their time was what it was, and I would give back to them.

54:54No, I didn't give them the time because I don't know how long it's going to take. Allison's criminal record shows one conviction for theft by deception in the state of Illinois, as well as convictions for theft and forgery in Texas. Kate was keeping track of other allegations against Allison and digging around in her past. You find some posts that are taking your suspicions to a whole new level. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Both Kate and James saw news reports about the murder of Patricia Lee Mills down in Texas. You see people mentioning this murder on social media. Allison had already told you about it.

55:31Yes. So you're reading about it, and then she's told you her story. How are things adding up to you? Things did not add up. and then I found the court documents where a lot of the testimony was discussed. And yeah, it was clear she had lied to me. What James saw contradicted what Allison had been telling him about her relationship with Delbert. She's telling you that she only got involved with him after his wife died. Yes. She told me that she met Delbert Mills a month after the fire. Kate's background in criminology drove her to build a timeline. I ended up going back and looking up the dates of her marriage.

56:14And with it being within 90 days of his wife dying, you know, she had a hand in it. You believe that? Firmly. It was quite a leap. From con artist to potential killer? Investigators back in Texas could never prove it. But for Kate and James, what happened next made their suspicions hard to ignore. She surprises you with a big ask. She did. I'm never going to be able to rest and be happy unless he's just somehow gone.

57:05James Turrentine believed Allison Salinas was a con artist. And he wondered if his high school ex was more involved in that murder down in Texas than she let on. Did you confront her with that at all? No. Why not? Because I wanted to maintain the status quo with her. To where she felt that she could trust me and tell me if she was planning any kind of new scams, what was going on with her. James says Allison texted and called him relentlessly for months. A lot of the discussion was about her husband, Patrick. What was she saying? She said that he didn't pay any bills, that he didn't really work very much.

57:43She referred to him as stupid, as though that was his actual name. You say she love-bombed you? Yes. How so? That I was the gold standard, that I was the one. She painted a very romantic picture. Allison also texted selfies to James. Regular selfies? Any suggestive pictures trying to win you over? She did, in fact, send me nudes, if that's what you're asking. And did you ever bite or? No. Never? No. But yet she believed that I was in love with her. She sounds like she's right out of a Lifetime movie. She does. And like a lot of Lifetime movies, things took a very dark turn. She surprises you with a big ask.

58:27She did. She wanted me to kill her husband. Patrick, the husband she'd been complaining about. How does this even come up? It started with subtle remarks. Things like, I wish he would just go away and never come back. And it progressed from there into full-blown conversations about orchestrating this man's death. If she is being truthful, her husband's life could be on the line. It is. She sent me a picture of him and said, there's your pic you need, as though that's what I need to know who he is, what he looks like, so that I can go up there and kill him. What did you say to her when she asked you to do this?

59:11I told her I'm not going to kill him. And she, at that point, instead wanted me to find someone else and hire that person to kill him. This is Officer Williamson, Pekin Police. Just so you know my body camera's on. James reached out to police in Pekin, Illinois, and spent more than 15 minutes telling an officer the story. She's like, well, you know, if you have some money, why don't you hire me a hitman or something like that? It needed to look like that. You see him and he'd be traced to her. Do you know if she has any, like, mental disabilities or, you know, anything of that nature? I'm trying to figure out the seriousness of this.

59:58So to be perfectly honest with you, so I'm not a medical professional, but I do have my own suspicions. I'm going to document everything that you're telling me, but my advice to you would be not contact her at all anymore. I would just block her number. Block her. You know, here again, if I do that, I think she's going to know something's up. I don't want to give her a reason to come down and, you know, cause problems for me in Texas or, you know, who knows whatever else. Yeah. Well, if you don't want to cause any issues by blocking her, then just don't respond to her. I mean, blocking her calls, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's just over.

1:00:39Yeah. That's not an end. She can just find someone else. Absolutely, she can. If James was waiting for the Pekin police to take immediate action, he was in for a disappointment. Months went by, and I never heard back from anyone. And it was at that point that I came to the understanding that I was on my own. He did have Kate on his side, and together they wondered if Allison's own words might get investigators' attention. So James developed a plan. Use an app on his cell phone to secretly record his conversations with her. I have to work in about 30 minutes, so I'll call you in a few. Once James hit record, it wasn't long before Allison was offering detailed scenarios about how to kill her husband, Patrick.

1:01:26It's not about the fact that he's allergic to selfish, but even that's too iffy. Huh. Because it takes a while for it to react, so he would have time to get help. So instead, she suggested luring Patrick to a remote location where a hitman would be waiting. I have to position him in a place where there's nobody at. but something happens. Right. And if there's anything involved with a gunshot, there wouldn't have to be a silence so there's no sound. Mm-hmm. And the shot would have to be destroyed. Right. Once again, Allison asked James to find a killer. I need your help finding someone. Huh. Well, that's not guaranteed.

1:02:10I mean, it's not like I have assassins on speed dial, you know what I mean? I know that. She chuckled. Like, this is just such a laughable situation. There was nothing funny about it. On these recordings, she's very calm and collected and matter-of-fact. Like, she's having a conversation about where you should go eat lunch. Yeah. It was very callous the way they should discuss these things. I don't know what it's going to cost. Am I at the social? I don't know. But I'll do what I got to do. Allison seemed to be thinking of all the angles. She suggested they start to withdraw cash in small increments to pay a hitman, a strategy to avoid suspicion.

1:02:52First time you do like 60 or 80 or 100 even. Don't keep the amount of saying. Because then that looks suspicious. And over time, you've pulled out 40, 50 bucks here,$100 here. Eventually, you have that 5 ,000 in cash now. She talks on these recordings that you have about how important it is that it not trace back. And she gets very detailed. The first thing she wanted to discuss was how she would alibi out. She always had to have that plausible deniability every time. That was first and foremost on her mind. Like, whatever's going to happen, it has to happen, number one, when I'm at work. Mm-hmm.

1:03:42or somewhere else where I can verify that I'm there. A work alibi was familiar to Allison. Her ex, Delbert, used it himself when Patricia Lee died in that fire. Allison also talked about the role she would have to play if and when the plan succeeded. The only thing that's going to suck is I have to go through the whole mourning process and all the whole crying and the whole widow process. You can hear her complaining that she'll have to be the grieving widow. She said that she would have to act like she was upset and it would all just be an act. What do you think when you hear all of these things that are being said on these calls?

1:04:26I knew that she was a terrible person. I didn't know that she was that heartless when she said, I'm going to have to play the grieving widow for a while and oh boo hoo. and it was just so cold. I'm never going to be able to rest and be happy unless he's just somehow gone. Allison had no idea James had recorded the calls, but she was about to find out, along with thousands of strangers who would hear every word. Not to mention a few people back in Texas who knew Allison all too well. My initial thought really was karma.

1:05:10Relax. Apple Pay is secure by design. When you pay with a physical debit or credit card, you're handing your card number over. With Apple Pay, your card number is never shared with the merchant. Apple Pay uses a device-specific number and unique transaction code to help process your payment, instead of your actual card number. Plus, Apple Pay doesn't keep transaction information that can be tied back to you, or sell your data to third parties for marketing or advertising purposes. Shop with confidence when you check out with Apple Pay. Terms apply. There's a pill version of Ozempic. Hello, I'm Ozempic.

1:05:44And I'm other GLP-1s kind of like him. Hey, did I hear there's a pill version of Ozempic? Yep, you sure did. Ask your doctor about which FDA-approved uses of the Ozempic pen or pill may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit Ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic semaglutide tablets, 9 milligrams, and Ozempic semaglutide injection, 2 milligrams. There's a pill version of Ozempic. It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair. And let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play.

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1:06:49In the years after his father's conviction for his mother's murder, John Michael struggled to find his way. There was substance abuse. I mean, that's how I dealt with it. I was trying to run from my problems, and that's the way it happened. He eventually got clean, got married, and had two daughters. I'm not the easiest to deal with, but my wife does a very, very good job at it. And I'm pretty sure every step of the way, my mom is there helping her. John Michael had lost track of Allison, the woman he always suspected had a hand in his mother's murder. He had no idea that two complete strangers had become obsessed with exposing Allison's plot to kill her husband.

1:07:34It can't go down as a homicide. It can't go down as anything but an accident. James and Kate's mission had reached a tipping point. They thought they'd recorded enough evidence to put Allison in prison for a long time. But since police hadn't taken an interest in the case, James put together highlights of the calls, and Kate posted them on Facebook. Something's gonna happen now. Because that's my only AI hot. None of you know me. James also used an AI-generated voiceover on the clip to suggest this might not be the first time Allison was involved in a murder plot. I can't help but notice some similarities between my situation and the murder of Patricia Mills in Victoria, Texas.

1:08:19Within a couple hours, we had 7 ,000 views, and then it just kept going. Most importantly, presumably the police are going to see this video. Yes. And hear about it. I tagged them in the post. Oh, that'll do it. That'll do it. 36 hours after that video was uploaded, I got a phone call from Detective Palmer with Beacon PD. There you go. Hi, this is Detective Palmer with the Pekin Police Department. I have to let you know just my phone calls are recorded. I'm not sure why. It was never followed up on before, but I am very, very interested in all of what was going on in this situation. She apologized to me for them not taking it seriously before.

1:09:10She said that she had been assigned to the case and that she was going to investigate. Now you had their attention. I'm sorry that it took this long for us to jump on the information. It definitely fell through the cracks and shouldn't have. But I am going to do my best to look into all of it. This time, the police moved at warp speed. In a matter of just days, the detective had done a deep dive into Allison Salinas, listening to the recordings, interviewing James and Kate, and reading up on the murder of Patricia Lee. On July 22, 2025, Allison came in for an interview. I just want to make sure that you understand the severity of how things could have played out.

1:09:56Oh, I do. I'm not oblivious to what could have happened, and I'm really glad it didn't. I don't want harm to come at anybody. And I really don't. like words were coming out of my mouth and it was just words when you say it's like just words coming out though you were thinking through all of the possible ways that like you could get get caught like you were thinking through all of those minute details like that's the part that alarmed me well it never alarm anybody but yeah I definitely didn't mean any of it it looks like you were talking with about the possibility of finding somebody to murder your husband.

1:10:41That's what it at least... That's what it looks like in the moment. In that moment. I get that. But understand, I don't want anybody to be hurt, ever. There's still consequences for having those conversations. So the seriousness behind how you were in the context, at this point, you're under arrest.

1:11:10speaking pd one female solicitation of murder she's compliant how are you feeling because of what you did she has now been arrested i felt a sense of relief i thought this will finally be over i have sad nerves patricia lee's sister sharon died two years earlier but others and Her family found poetic justice in Allison's arrest. My initial thought, really, when I saw what the charges were, was karma. Yeah. It may have not been for her part in my aunt's murder, but at least there was something coming to her, finally. You had one question after Allison's arrest in 2025. Mm-hmm. What's the statute of limitations on murder?

1:11:59You're thinking about your mom. Always. Always will be. Incredibly, the one person Allison chose to call after her arrest was her husband, Patrick. Yes, Patrick. The man she was accused of plotting to kill. I love you. I love you, too. Bye-bye. Bye. Patrick has stood by Allison. He agreed to sit down with us to defend his wife. I don't believe what they say. I don't believe that she is a bad person. She's put me in front of everything, even our kids sometimes. So therefore, I have no reason to believe that this is where her true heart is. She's your ride or die. Mm-hmm. We've been through so much, and we're still here.

1:12:50Well, there are going to be people saying, come on, Patrick, you know, wake up. How can you defend this woman? How can you defend your wife when it's right there, you know, in these calls, these things she's saying? What is your response to that? You don't know her. They don't know her. Nobody knows her the way that I do. To him, Allison was a victim of James. I don't have anything bad to say about Allison, and I haven't listened to none of those tapes. That's not necessary. I already know what's going on here. You're never going to listen to it. I'm not going to. It's not, there's no reason for it.

1:13:32He was selectively talking to her and trying to manipulate her and get in her head. He got in her head to the point to where she started talking about this stuff. Patrick says Allison was manipulated. What would she say to us? There are some people who feel that if you're capable of asking James to kill Patrick, that you were capable of asking Delbert to kill Patricia Lee.

1:14:15For Alison Salinas, it was a dramatic fall. Once an entrepreneur and Senate candidate, she was now charged with plotting to kill her husband, Patrick. From behind bars, she agreed to talk to us. I didn't want to hurt my husband, not truly. I didn't want anything bad to happen to him. He says that he is with you forever, despite it all, that you are his ride or die. Aw, that's my baby. You do love your husband? Very much. He's my soulmate. Allison says she was going through a rough time with Patrick when she first reached out to her old high school boyfriend, James. I didn't ask for anything except for him to be nice, for him to be loving.

1:15:03That's all I wanted, is I wanted to be loved. James says that you initiated, you know, the possibility of being together, that it was you, that you love-bombed him. You sent him nude photographs of yourself.

1:15:21and that he wanted nothing to do with a romantic relationship. That's a lie. That's a bold-faced lie. Wow. Okay. Allison says she went to Texas, where they consummated their romance in a hotel room. James says that never happened. He was able to manipulate my feelings. He played on my emotions. I mean, you said some pretty bad things in those calls about Patrick. I'm never going to be able to rest and be happy unless he's just somehow gone. You talked about using a silencer, you know, that he's allergic to shellfish. Maybe it could look like he had an allergic reaction and died. Yeah, those were all things that James brought up and he made me believe.

1:16:05But in my head, you're going to understand my mental stability at that point, too. That plays a big part. I've been on medication most of my life. Allison, you do know what was said on those calls looks bad. Just because it looks bad doesn't mean that that's the whole story. And people need to know what really happened. People need to know the manipulation. In Illinois, the charge against Allison was about a theoretical murder. But as for the actual murder in Texas committed by her ex, Delbert Mills? That was a horrible, horrible situation. Delbert is probably the worst human being I've ever met.

1:16:43The family says you started this affair before Patricia Lee died. See, that's not true. We didn't start seeing each other until shortly after and got married three months after. That ended up being one of my worst mistakes. Did you have any involvement in the murder of Patricia Lee? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That was horrible what happened to her. And that little boy did not deserve to lose his mother. Can you see, though, the similarities between the two cases? You're the common thread. See, I don't see it like that, though. I see it like I had problems with my husband, and some other man stepped in and played Night in Shining Armor, but I never really wanted to hurt my husband.

1:17:36There are some people who feel that if you're capable of asking James to kill Patrick, that you were capable of asking Delbert to kill Patricia Lee. No. Not at all. To me, that's an insane thought. Because I don't want my husband dead. I never wanted him hurt. I never wanted anything to happen to him. Allison claims the charges against her are tainted because of something very ugly she learned about James. You say that James is not to be trusted. Well, yeah, I know that now. Yeah. You have specific reasons for saying that. James is, I found out he's a registered sex offender. And I found out he lied to me for two years.

1:18:24Allison and Patrick brought up something very sensitive. That you, James, are a convicted sex offender and that you are not to be trusted. Okay. So, 20 years ago, I was charged with a sexual offense, and when I completed probation, the charge against me was dismissed. I am not a convicted felon. They claim that you essentially manipulated a young girl to get what you wanted, that you are capable of manipulating anybody, including Allison. I choose to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Yes, there is something terrible that I did in my past. I've done right by society since then.

1:19:13This was a very serious thing that you did. Yes, it was. You know, I made the decisions that brought me to the situation that I'm in today. Why should people trust you now, believe you? Because I believe in atonement. I believe in redemption. I believe it is possible to change. James says he was never the mastermind trying to convince Allison to kill her husband, and the recordings of their conversations prove it. He says Allison, with her long history of alleged cons, is the real manipulator. You've been accused of taking money from firefighters, police, veterans, duping the people all around you for money.

1:20:01What do you want to know? other than I didn't do it. I mean, there are many, many, many accusations. Accusations. So you've never stolen a dollar from anyone? No. I don't know. And it's just, then just everyone else is lying but you? It's not everyone's lying. There's more to the story than that. How's there more to the story? It's a lot of allegations, and nobody can seem to prove anything. It's just allegations. Allison says she is a cancer survivor and denies allegations she faked any illness. I've had cancer, I've beat it. That's all there is to clear it up. Allison says Kate is an internet troll out to get her.

1:20:43And James joined in her campaign of spreading lies. They keep replaying the same things to try to keep it in people's head, to make people hate me. When I opened my bakery, my first customer walked up to me and said, I'm in here because of the hate. Kate also said that you sold frozen pastries at the bakery that you didn't even make yourself. First of all, I never once said that I baked everything fresh. 90 % of what I did make was homemade. Made killer brownies, made killer cookies, made killer cupcakes. That's an interesting choice of words. Well, sorry. Interesting way to describe it. I mean, I don't mean it like that.

1:21:21I mean, they were just very good. No, no. It's just given why we're here. I mean, they were very delicious. What do you say to anyone who feels like you're blaming everybody but yourself? I'm not blaming everybody but myself. I'm filling in the holes that nobody cared to listen to. I just want the truth out there. That's all I want. Hundreds of miles south in a Texas prison, Allison's ex-husband Delbert is also proclaiming his innocence. And after two decades, he's ready to reveal the person he says is responsible for the fire that killed Patricia Lee. You have to know there are going to be people who find what you're saying right now despicable.

1:22:11There's always more to the story. To go behind the scenes of tonight's episode, listen to our Talking Dateline series with Lester and Andrea, available Wednesday.

1:22:30Charged with solicitation of murder, Allison Salinas was facing a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison if convicted. But the state offered a deal, plead guilty in exchange for a lighter sentence. After consulting with her public defender, she took it and is serving a 16-year prison term. You accepted a plea deal? Because I was told I had to, yes. What was said to you? I was told that if I even thought about having a jury trial, you're going to get 30 years. He scared me into a plea deal. He told me that was my only hope. So I agreed. I feel like it should have been a lot more. I do feel like had she gone to trial, had there been a jury, she would have had a longer sentence.

1:23:18John Michael is glad Allison is behind bars. Karma's a bitch. You get what you deserve. Is she diabolical? Is that how you would describe her? No, that's not. I just use the word evil. Evil. You think she's evil? She is evil. What did you think when you heard that she was indicted in Illinois? Well, I'd like to tell you I was shocked, but I was not. I thought, well, that tracks. That tracks. Delbert Mills, the man D.A. Shepard prosecuted for the murder of Patricia Lee, is serving a life sentence in a prison outside of Amarillo. Why did you decide to sit down and talk with us? To get the true story out there.

1:24:06What is the true story? The true story is I really don't know what happened that day. Did you kill your wife? No, ma 'am. I did not. Did Allison have anything to do with the death of your wife? That I do not know. I was not there. Despite those claims of ignorance, Delbert says he does know who is responsible for the fire and has kept it a secret for more than two decades. From what I was told by a six-year-old boy, and I swore to him in the back of the ambulance that day, I'd never tell another living soul, but I'm going to tell you. This is your son you're referring to? Yeah, this is my son.

1:24:39He said he set the couch on fire playing with a lighter at the end of it, which probably in turn set the curtains on fire, set the wall on fire that burnt the house down, that killed his mother. So now you're blaming your son. No, I'm not blaming my son. I'm telling you what my son told me when he was six years old in the back of an ambulance. Well, it sounds like you're blaming your son. You have to know there are going to be people who find what you're saying right now despicable. Mm-hmm. Based on all the statements that you made to people about killing Patricia. I know. Now you're saying that you think it was your son.

1:25:10No, I'm telling you what my son told me in the back of an ambulance. Okay. Why believe you? Why not believe me? Why not? Because there's witnesses who have said that you told them terrible things about Patricia Lee and that you confessed to starting the fire. I can understand that, too. I didn't do it. I could have been bragging about something I didn't do. Could have been or didn't. Probably did a couple of times. Delbert has professed his innocence for years, but he never implicated his son until now. I swore to him that I'd never tell nobody else. And he's my son, and I'll protect him to my last dying breath.

1:25:48If you're protecting him, why are you telling me? So the truth can be known. You know, your son has been through hell. I know he has. And now you're saying this, and you're acting like you're trying to be this good father, that you're protecting him. And you're not. This is— So basically what you're telling me, I should have said this from the start. I should have told somebody. Well, sure, if it's the truth. This feels so unfair to him to be doing this right now. I have to tell you, as a parent. I know it feels unfair. It feels really awful. I don't know whether it's true or not or whether he was just scared.

1:26:26But that's what he told me. And that's the only thing I know. I don't think you're going to win Father of the Year anytime soon, Delbert. I know that. I ain't trying to win Father of the Year. If he really wants to know what happened, Son, the only thing I can tell you is to get hypnotized, remember that day, and see whether what you told me is true or not. Other than that, I don't know. This sounds like a bunch of bull crap, Albert. I know what it sounds like. We showed John Michael what his father said about him. And he set the couch on a bar plan with a lighter at the end of it.

1:27:03I'm going to stop right there. I feel like I'm done because he's blaming me.

1:27:14After composing himself, John Michael returned. If you can blame a six-year-old for killing his mother when you're the one that actually did it, you don't have a heart. That's the most cold-hearted thing you can do. It's so infuriating. It makes the blood boil. John Michael's anger extends to Allison, too. He'd like to see her prosecuted for his mother's murder. But the current district attorney in Goliad says that won't happen unless credible new evidence emerges. Would you like to see the Goliad district attorney take another look? I say no because it's been so long and we've, you know, we've gone all this time.

1:27:59Yeah. And my aunt deserves to rest in peace. It's been a struggle, but John Michael has found a measure of peace for himself. Your mom would be really proud of you. Yes. You turned your life around. I had to. It was either turn my life around or end up in the ground. These days, John Michael dedicates himself to his role as husband and father and holds tight the memory of his best friend. The mother he lost so many years ago. She was the first person to show me what love was. I mean, how can that not be your best friend? She might not be here physically, but she's here in my mind. She's here in my heart.

1:28:56That's all for now. I'm Lester Holt. Thanks for joining us.

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