Talking Dateline: A Perfect Spring Morning

0:03Hi, everyone. I'm Lester Holt. Welcome to Talking Dateline with Blaine Alexander Alexander. Today to discuss A Perfect Spring Morning, the title of her latest episode here on Dateline. If you haven't seen it, go to the Dateline podcast feed, pull it up, and then come right back here and listen to the discussion. By the way, you can also stream it on Peacock. So to recap, when loving mother and wife Leslie Preer was found brutally murdered in her Maryland home in 2001, investigators zeroed in on her husband Sandy, only to clear him. As the years passed, the couple's daughter, Lauren, pushed to keep her case alive.

0:40And finally, 20 years after the murder, new detectives got the case and found the real killer, Lauren's high school boyfriend, Eugene Gligor. First of all, Blaine, good to have you here. This is one you go in, you think you know pretty quickly where this is all leading. And then there are several points we're just left shaking our heads in this one. Give me your overall impression of doing this episode. Celester, one, this is our first talking dateline together. So I feel like this occasion should be marked. This is a special moment. I have no champagne, but I do have a cold cappuccino. There you go.

1:16And I've got this water right here. So there we go. No, I'm glad to join you, my friend. I mean, this one was a striking episode for me for a number of reasons. I mean, I think at the core of this, this is about a daughter who embarked on this decades-long quest to find her mother's killer. In talking with Lauren Prier, it was very clear immediately that she and her mom, Leslie, had the kind of mother-daughter relationship that you dream of having, right? If you're a mom, you dream of having with your daughters, that you dream of having with your mom. They were incredibly close. And, I mean, just good friends.

1:52She was an only child. And so that made her mother's very sudden, very brutal death all the more difficult for her to deal with over these years, on top of the fact that they were without knowledge of who the killer was for so long. So I was also struck by what Lauren has gone through in terms of the lasting impact, obviously, of losing her mother, ultimately losing her dad. But she has some real, I think, justified fears now as a result of all this. Yeah, I mean, I think a couple of things. We talked about in the episode about showers, right? Like how that was a difficult thing for her. Her mother was found dead upstairs in the shower.

2:33And so her best friend Lisa said that she would feel fearful every time she needed to get in the shower. She would call Lisa. Lisa would come over, basically sit with her in the bathroom. I mean, imagine that type of fear for a good majority of your life. The other piece of it is, again, that this was an unknown. So there's always the question of who did this and why? And if they were angry enough or whatever it was enough to kill my mother, might they come after me? Yeah, but people, members of the family, certainly the police, all suspected. In this case, the husband did it. Yeah. Not the case here.

3:08But the whole family seemed to pay a price because that suspicion went on for a very long time. It went on past Sandy Prier's death. I mean, he went to his grave with people in the family still suspecting that he could have been the person who killed his wife. He went to his grave not knowing who the real killer was and still feeling like, you know, there were all these people and all these eyes on him. So that's something that Lauren really spoke to when we sat down and talked. And it's clear that that's a pain that she still carries. You know, one of the things that I've been struck with, Lester, when I do these stories is when there are stories that where kids are caught in the middle.

3:45Whether it's, you know, a spouse did kill the other spouse and they were faced with the loss of two parents in a way. Or if there's suspicion over one of the parents and they kind of have to deal with that. And that's what Lauren dealt with. But also members of the family. I mean, Leslie's parents wondered, hey, is our son-in-law a killer? There was just a lot of turmoil that this caused in the family. Yeah, when Lauren finally confronted her dad and asked him point blank, did you kill my mom? And he said, no. That was a very powerful segment. Can you imagine that? I mean, it's one of those things where Warren admitted she was like, because the detectives, in her telling, because the detectives were kind of so sure that it was her dad, she started to have that thought in her mind too.

4:33Now, she was pretty clear with me. She never really believed that it was him. She really, you know, in her heart, but she did allow doubt to creep in to the point that she sat down and asked her dad. And he said, I'm only going to answer this once. No, it was not me. And she said, from that moment on, I dropped it, believed him. That was it. Yeah, and I was struck by, man, what if you're the parent and your child asks you a question like that? It's just, this whole thing is sad in so many ways. How worried was she when the police kind of hit that point where, look, this is what we got. And boy, it sure looks like the dad in this case.

5:12It's hard because she was so sure that it wasn't. Ultimately, once she believed her dad, she was frustrated because she said, listen, I know it's not him. Perhaps you all are not working the case as well as you should because you are focused on him. And so that did lead to some frustration for her too over the years. I'm wondering if he did himself favors the way he handled the police pressure. Obviously, they got him in the interrogation room and laid out their case and said, facts don't lie. In this case, looks like they got the wrong facts. Well, watching this, and I'm sure that some of our viewers could agree, there were some seemingly unforced errors there by Sandy, right?

5:53And you never know how someone is going to react when they're in a traumatic situation like that, when they're told that their loved one has been killed, when they have to answer questions on police. But it seemed like almost every single thing that he could have done wrong, he was almost checking all of those boxes, right? The reaction that he gave when he was told that Leslie had been killed, just the acting strange at the scene, according to a couple of people's tellings, going to a dump the night before her body was found, right? Like just all of these kinds of things that would lead investigators to say, well, that's kind of suspicious.

6:28We, of course, reported polygraphs are not admissible, not always reliable. But once again, the polygraph kind of started pointing toward the husband. When you volunteer to take a lie detector test and then you fail it, that just doesn't look good, right? When he said, I'm going to do it, I'm like, well, that's a stand-up thing. That's what innocent people do. Yeah, test me. Exactly. That's what you think too. And then you fail the test. It's like, oh no, that's what not innocent people do, right? Yeah. But we know that there are so many different factors that go into a polygraph. Let's say that you take it, but obviously you're nervous, you're upset.

7:07Your wife was just brutally killed. Who knows what's going to happen to impact the results? And to your point, that's why, again, these are not foolproof. They're not admissible. But again, it just never looks good when you fail one of those. And I know police don't want to jump to conclusions, but as you point out, this one had a lot of arrows pointed. It seemed to be pointing in one direction. The use of science, of course, ruled the day. They had a lot of evidence in terms of the blood patterns and what they found in the shower and upstairs. It seemed at one point that that was going to really solve the question of who killed her.

7:45That and once the DNA came, once they said, okay, we've got DNA. And I'm sure a lot of our consistent viewers will know, when you hear DNA, it's like, okay, great. What does that mean? Yes, exactly. Case closed. Let's find this person. But when it doesn't match anyone, then you're left with this question of, okay, we've got something in our hand that would theoretically solve this case, but we just don't know who to connect it to. For investigators, that's always a very frustrating thing in the first place. But I will say in this case, and I asked Detective Tara Augustin this, I said, did the fact that there was DNA that didn't match Sandy Prier, did that keep him out of jail?

8:21And she said, absolutely. Like, he would have very likely been arrested had it not been for the fact that his DNA didn't match. So yes, the DNA was there. And in many ways, that saved Sandy. All right, we'll take a break. When we come back, we have an extra clip of Leslie's brother, Bill, speaking at Gligor Sentencing. We'll be right back.

8:43Do you think that this case would have been solved if not for Lauren's persistence? I mean, she was on the police on a regular basis. I think that it was certainly her persistence, but I also think that it was the, you know, we always kind of say in Dateline, it takes fresh eyes to crack a case, fresh eyes on this case. This case passed through the hands of eight detectives, ultimately, before it was solved. And I think that it was these two new detectives who not only went through the cold case files, saw this, also spoke to Lauren and kind of heard her voice and heard the things that she'd been going through over the years that really kind of lit this fire in them to solve it as well.

9:22I want to talk about the detectives themselves. Detectives, Augustine and DuPois, they were, we could have done a whole lot more on them because, yes, they were a dynamic duo. These are two ladies. They're both mothers, working moms, as we said in the piece. They both happen to love Taylor Swift. literally have a, who doesn't? But they have a little banner in their kind of cold case area, cold case office. It's down in the basement of the Montgomery County Police Department. I went down there and it's nothing but just rows and rows of boxes and files and a few desks. And then they have this little Taylor Swift kind of banner hanging up there in the midst of all of these files.

9:57So they are very, very big Swifties. But they really had this fire in their belly of we are going to solve this case. And we talked a little bit about the science of this thing, but the DNA is obviously very important. It led them down this path to ultimately this new technology that allowed the investigators to kind of process this DNA evidence in a way that they weren't able to do back in 2001 or back, you know, in the years immediately following the case. And that's what ultimately led them to be able to find Eugene. It was really fascinating. I wanted actually more on this issue of genealogy.

10:29We've heard about it, you know, occasionally in stories, but it's fascinating. Yes. Not only DNA would link to a specific person, this would link to a family group and march police down a certain direction. When we talk about that genealogy, it's fascinating, yes, but it's really tedious work. And it's not a given that they get to use it. We could have given so much more in this episode on it, but we didn't want to sound like science wonks here. But it's this thing of going through and bit by bit looking at names that match, family groups that match from all of this information that's available.

11:03I mean, it really is this kind of painstaking work that they embarked upon. Yeah. And then when they find, I think, the match, the description of that moment was really, I think, it was very cool. It was. It was. So I was in their cold case office. So I was able to see, you know, her desk is kind of in the back of this room. And I can't emphasize enough, this is a basement. So imagine being back there, pouring over this information for days, days, days on end. And then finally she shouts out, I got it. I got it. You know, you kind of feel that electricity of like, oh, is there something? It's the movie moment.

11:43It's the movie moment. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And sure enough, she had it. So what do we know about Eugene Gligor? What's his story? And so one thing that we've learned from him in speaking with Lauren, speaking with Lisa, speaking with other friends of theirs is that I think the biggest chilling thing is that he was able to proceed and kind of live this life for more than two decades as though nothing had happened. Married, divorced, traveled a lot. I mean, he was, you know, it was an airport return that ultimately got him. Lauren had come face to face with him several times. And at one point, he even comforted her.

12:22And that always seems to just be so chilling to me that not only can you commit this crime, but then proceed to live your life as though nothing had happened and even come face to face with the people that you hurt so badly. And it really justified Lauren's sense of looking over her shoulder literally and figuratively with that same knowledge that this person is likely somewhere in my circle. That's frightening. And can you imagine ultimately finding out who that is and realizing this was a person that was in my house. This was a person that I saw. It kind of, it messes with your, you know, internal barometer of how do I trust people?

13:03The knowledge that the killer was someone she knew. That's a pretty heavy burden to carry around. Not only knew, but had spent time in the house, would go on vacations with them. I mean, their house, when you think back to kind of like your high school years, most friend groups have a house where all the friends would go. Whether you had a pool there or the parents were really cool and would let you hang out and didn't mind the noise, whatever. Their house was kind of like that cool house. That was the hangout house. And so Eugene was, of course, part of their friend group, was part of that group.

13:35So he was always at the house. He would be there hanging out. So he was familiar in the sense that Leslie was always very welcoming, would talk to the kids when they were there. So when you think about all of that, all of the kind of motherly love that Leslie poured into any kid who was in her house back in the day, including Eugene, then that just kind of heightens the sense of betrayal here that Lauren certainly feels. The question that hovers over the whole thing is why? Why did she die? So prosecutor's theory of this was that Eugene had a drug habit back then and was trying to rob the house to get money to feed his drug habit, was surprised by the fact that Leslie was there in the house when he went there and turned on her.

14:22They kept the back door unlocked. That's something that he would have known. They believe that's what he used to come in, go out, use the path to get away. And so they believe that he was possibly thinking, hey, I can go and grab some things. Leslie was there, and then it just unfortunately went downhill from there. Okay, so the suspect in this case, of course, confesses, so there's no trial, but there is a sentencing in court, and that always provides, I think, some really telling moments in any case. We've got some sound here that did not make this episode. It's the family, it's the brother in this case of Leslie addressing the court on the issue of sentencing.

14:59Here it is. As we were part of sensing the lessons kept, we heard the word closure. The word closure, the youth of mystical attempts to give summary leads to Leslie's family and friends. But for those of us who love Leslie, a person who never had a name, never met a stranger, closure is impossible. A pain and anger for the rest of our lives. There was no closer to proceeding for it. Last year, he went to his grade in 2017. Nor was the closure for my turn. He went to their grade, never knowing if his son was in regular or possible accused. May 7, 2001, St. DePriere was sentenced to life without his loving wife and his best friend.

15:54May 2, 2001, Lauren Woodard was sentenced to life without her mother and dearest friend. A sentence of pain and sorrow she will carry as long as she lives. May 2, 2001, Leslie said, brother and sisters, she was sentenced to life without her sweet, unloving and caring sister. The horror of this murder should be reflected in the sentence. He makes a good point, Blaine. How is the family supposed to find closure in a case like this, especially one that's dragged out over years and has implicated many people at points along the way? I always think that closure is one of those words, Lester, that it's often difficult to apply.

16:39Because what does closure really mean? And I think that, yes, do they know who killed Leslie? Yes. Has he been sentenced? Has he admitted to his crime and fessed up to it? Yes. But that almost opens up a whole new set of questions and feelings. I can speak only from having sat down with Lauren for an extended period of time twice that closure, maybe in the sense of what we think about it, that that's not going to exist here. I think that a piece of the nightmare for her is over in that she's able to, you know, have that question not hang over her head. It's certainly a big relief that she can now say with certainty that her father didn't do it and have the world know it too.

17:22But finding any sort of closure or relief, that's going to be a hard-fought effort. After the break, we're going to hear from some of you via social media, some of your burning questions about this episode and the way we do visits around here.

17:39As always, our stories generate a lot of discussion on social media. We've got some questions in there. You want to take a few? Yes, please. I'd love to. All right. Our first question comes from Pam on Facebook, who asks, why didn't the police follow up with the daughter's list of people like the ex-boyfriends? Pam, thank you for watching, and that's a great question. That's something that Lauren wanted to know as well. I mean, you know, in her telling, she certainly believes that there was a lot of focus because there was so much focus on her dad, on Sandy, that police kind of just leaned in on that and didn't really go back over some of the other folks.

18:15I mean, we mentioned in the story that at the time she mentioned Eugene Gligore's name, he was living out of state. There were a couple of other people that she mentioned that were out of state. It would have taken time. It would have taken resources. It would have taken a lot of things to travel and see them. And investigators really were strapped for resources at different times than this as well, because we talked about some of the other high-profile cases that kept popping up, Chandra Levy certainly being one of them. And so put all those factors together, plus the fact that they were looking so closely at Sandy, a lot of those things just slipped through the cracks.

18:45Okay, we have another question. This is from Winston at Pee Wee Winston, who asks, I've seen several stories on Dateline where the boss goes to the house when the employee doesn't show up for work. Interesting, because this is how this started. The boss wants to check on Leslie as to her whereabouts because she's apparently chronically late, and that obviously led to where we ended. I, you know, it's so interesting because this was a, and thank you, Winston, for your question. This was a point of discussion when we were kind of reviewing the story and putting it together. I don't know, Lester.

19:18I mean, I think our bosses love us. I'm not sure if someone would show up at our house physically if we did not show up to work. I just, I don't know. So, but I could see on the other side, people saying, no, that's completely normal. I'm going to go to my employee's house and check. I'm curious what you thought, though. Did that feel surprising? Well, I mean, I was trying to think what kind of an office, you know, what kind of job is it? You know, is it a small group of people? But I was hung up on that for a little bit. Like, that's a little suspicious. That's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. But that's why I'm not a police officer.

19:48Linda DeForest on Facebook asks, the police seem to go by first reactions of family members way too much. Not everyone has the same reaction. Sometimes they're in shock. And that's a good question regarding the father, the husband in this case. You know, some might argue, well, he didn't act like someone who's innocent. But then, of course, he consented, as we mentioned, he consented to the lie detector test. Who knows how someone is going to react in that type of situation, right? You might expect someone to fall over crying. You might expect, you just don't know. And so I completely agree with that.

20:26And you've seen people give what you would think could be a spot-on reaction of a grieving family member or grieving spouse. And they're the ones who did it. So you really can't tell. And Gligor shed a few crocodile tears. That was one of the memorable moments of this episode. The crying, the crying. And then finally, the detective was like, there's nothing coming out of your eyes. And he says, well, I'm dry. I'm parched. So, yeah, certainly a telling moment there. Okay. Hey, this is fun. We've got a couple of questions from our audiences at the Dateline Live event in Nashville last month. Oh, fun.

21:02This is from Simone, who asked, how long does it take to put a show together? It depends. We know that we had one already this season that was at least two years in the making. Because the nature of a lot of these stories, there's trials, there's retrials, there are delays. And, you know, we need to know at some point how this story ends. Exactly. That's a big part of what we do. Another audience member named Richie Rich asked, has there ever been a time where any of you were certain that you knew who did it but were totally wrong in the end? Richie Rich, number one. That's very cute. You raised your hand, Lester.

21:41Yes? Yeah, I think, you know, when we see these stories in advance sometimes, I try to, before we do these, I try to watch them in isolation as a viewer and try to, you know, record my impressions of them. But yeah, I mean, listen, life doesn't follow a smooth track in real life. So why should it in these cases? Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that you watch it as a viewer, though. Like, don't even read into it. You just kind of hit the link and just start watching. Cold. It's a fun way to watch. I try to do that much in my career, actually, is watch stuff in real time. Well, Blaine, absolutely fascinating story.

22:19Thanks for bringing it to us. Of course. Thank you so much for having me, Lester. All right. Well, that is going to do it for Talking Dateline this week. Remember, if you have any questions about stories on Dateline, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us 24-7 on social media at DatelineNBC. And if you have a question for Talking Dateline specifically, leave it on a voicemail at 212-413-5252 or send us a video on socials for a chance to be featured on an upcoming episode. We're going to see you Friday on Dateline. Until then, so long, everybody. Thanks for watching.

22:57Thank you.