Talking Dateline: Conversations at CrimeCon Part 1

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1:05Hey everybody, it's Josh Mankiewicz, and today we have a special edition of Talking Dateline. This week, instead of going behind the scenes of a particular episode, we want to take you back to a live conversation from CrimeCon 2026 in Las Vegas, Nevada. Now, I'm known at CrimeCon as the mayor of CrimeCon. I did not give myself that title. I actually would be thrilled if I could get rid of that title and somebody else could take it. But at the moment, I haven't. So I'm not the self-appointed mayor. I'm appointed by others. So at this session of CrimeCon, I sat down with Ellison Barber, who was an NBC News correspondent, but also the host of the Netflix original podcast called Allegedly.

1:48That's produced by our colleagues at NBC News Studios. Now, Ellison and I sat down and discussed all things Dateline, Everything from how Dateline began covering murder cases to how I got my own start to my colleague and my frenemy, Keith Morrison. I don't even like to say his name out loud. We talked about all of that. So here we go.

2:13Hello. Hi, everybody. I cannot see you because of these lights, but I hear you out there. so one of you made me the key to CrimeCon City key it says mayor on it here I just want you to know I have it and it's a cherished possession although I do believe that the mayor of CrimeCon like other offices that we all hold dear should probably have term limits anyway but thank you and wonderful to see everybody. Let's talk Dateline. Yes. When you think about your career, why did you want to start covering these cases and focus on crime in the first place? I did not want to start covering these cases. Really?

3:05Who made you? Our now retired executive producer, a guy named David Corvo,

3:15said to me one day, like, we're going to, you know, I'd been at Dateline 10 years And we'd done, as many of you probably remember, we were doing all kinds of stories within an hour. And we were doing like five or six stories within those 60 minutes. And they were all unrelated. And he said to me, we're going to start trying to do these sort of murder cases over an hour. I remember thinking, you are? We're doing that? I remember thinking, like, nobody's going to want to watch that. So clearly, yeah, you want to come to me for ideas about where America is going. And now, like, look where we are, right?

3:53So I certainly did not see this county. But then I went to Reno, Nevada, and I did the story of Brianna Denison, who had vanished and then subsequently was found, murdered. And then we did the story again now that there had been that sort of giant change to it. And that was sort of the first, I think it was the first hour on a murder case that I did. and the reaction from the audience, there was not any mistaking that. And that was one. And also, I got some satisfaction out of covering that story in a way that I had not anticipated. And then we were kind of off and running because all the other stories were getting a sort of similar response.

4:36And it was a, I suddenly realized we had sort of tapped into something that I had not seen out there. So I can't really take any credit for this because not only was it not my idea, I thought they were nuts. Why have you stayed with it? How has that changed for you? You know, when I started in journalism, which was 50 years ago, I was first I was working on the assignment desk in the middle of the night and, you know, weekends and that kind of thing. And the first job that I was promoted to, I was at ABC News and I was a I was the off air reporter covering the U.S. House, which I did for three years back in the late 70s.

5:13And I really thought at the time that sort of covering Washington was the be-all and end-all of journalism, and that if I was lucky, you know, I'd be the White House correspondent someday, something like that. But I was a political reporter for a long time. And then I came to Dateline and did these other kinds of stories for a couple of years. And then we started on crime and the criminal justice system. And I saw how that connected with people in a way that Washington coverage didn't. but that was a way of sort of like recognizing I sort of came to recognize how you know if you want to understand human emotion if you want to understand you know love and hate and greed and lust and and the things that drive people then you need to be covering crime which I didn't realize, but it's unquestionably true.

6:04And it's been very, very, very satisfying. It has been. You had the first live event in Nashville. Tell us about that. I mean, I imagine some of the people here have been there as well. What was that like for you? Are there going to be more? Yes, there are going to be more. There's going to be another one. I don't know exactly when it's going to be. I don't think it's going to be in Nashville again. I think it's going to be somewhere else, but I'm not sure where that is. But look, it's, I mean, it was like sort of concentrated crime con because a lot of people are here for a lot of different reasons.

6:40But everybody who was there in Nashville at that event was there just to see us and talk with us. And that was great. There was a very long period of time in television in which you really could only guess at what the audience was thinking or what they liked. And that was through the ratings. But of course, like, that's a really imprecise way of doing it. Because if there's, you know, if there's a football game on opposite you, you're not going to do as well as if some other program is on. And that doesn't really have anything to do with how well you're presenting your story. So events like this and the thing we did in Nashville and social media, like, sort of changed everything.

7:19All of them are opportunities for me and for all of us to sort of figure out like what you were thinking. And that's a much more precise way. And for me, an interesting way of finding that out than, you know, just sort of reading the numbers. When you think about your time at Dateline, if you could go back and talk to yourself in those early days. Yeah. What is the advice you would give yourself from today? Do a better job of buffing Keith's car.

7:52yeah have you started to get better at that i have it's like a whole wax on wax off thing but it's a uh yeah he was he gets very angry if it's a lamborghini what are we talking yeah yeah yeah yeah let's go with that sure um like what advice would i give my earlier so i mean first of all like like i i didn't um you know i didn't see this coming um i would say now like i wish i had started this sooner. You know, I sort of came to Dateline in the middle of OJ. It was already, the trial was already going on. So I, I didn't, I didn't do the direct trial coverage. Stone Phillips was, was our anchor then and he did most of it.

8:32And I did a couple of like, sort of like, like just side stories to it. But yeah, I, I would, I, my only wish is that we'd started doing this a lot sooner because there's a lot of untold stories out there and they connect with people and they tell you things about what's happening in America that sort of wasn't getting covered for a long time. I always say whenever people ask because people have known for years that I'm like my relaxing time is that I watch Dateline and it's like if I'm coming back from a long work trip whatever I'm just like I'm gonna relax and just watch Dateline and I often will joke about that because I know a lot of people don't understand why I'm so interested in it.

9:11And it's easier to just be like, oh no, I'm a freak and kind of like leave it at that. But I feel like everybody in this room knows and the way that I feel about it is that I'm like, there are so many layers as to why people are interested in covering it, watching it, reading it, following cases. And for me, it manifests in so many different ways. And one of them is that I really believe when bad things happen, information, factual information is the best chance we have at preventing bad things from happening in the future. I also think that I want to be aware of when bad things happen, who the people are.

9:41And I want to honor them and I want to hold space for them and their families. And I want to remember the next time I see a statistic that it is real people and real names and people who matter. I also want to have an awareness of what a red flag maybe looks like. And I also want to have a better understanding of the criminal justice system that's so big and so robust. It has the potential to impact everyone. Yeah, and the great thing is over two hours, you can do all of that. Yeah. You know, unless you are very well known, your murder is probably not going to get a tremendous amount of ink in your local paper and probably not a lot of time on television.

10:14The great thing about Dateline is that, you know, we can talk not just about the actual crime and the tick tock of how it was solved, but also who the person was. Not just how they died, how they lived, what they meant to other people in their life. what went wrong, how this could possibly have happened. And that is a huge luxury in journalism to have that much real estate to tell a story and that much time to do it. Because sometimes it's a month, two months, three months. You have a lot of time to assemble that story and get around. Some of the stuff I'm working on right now, you won't see until the fall.

10:53Let me ask you about Keith Morrison. Yes. For starters, do you want to clear up if it is best friends or arch nemesis? Okay, we really, I do owe you all this answer. Yeah, I hate him. Okay.

11:13Yeah, sadly, that's not true. He is the sweetest guy. Everybody at Dateline adores him, including me. and the great thing about Keith is that whether I have been posting when I'm going to his house which is always like I show a picture of it it's a castle you know he's got a he's got a moat or it's in a you know it's I've been doing that and I put up all these photoshopped pictures of us during the Olympics posting our heads on other people's bodies and all all this other stuff he's been remarkably tolerant because like when I started posting the Olympic stuff we were about four days into it and uh and this is what i was still on twitter and it was getting this giant response and i thought to myself yeah you know maybe you should have said something to him about this and then i hadn't and then he came to me on a week later and he's like what are you doing and i'm like yeah just roll with it you don't have to do anything okay uh so was he like my my my and and leaned?

12:16Did he lean? He did. He was always leaning against something. Yeah. But he's, yeah, he is, he's been very tolerant of all my antics and he is, he is exactly who you see on television and he's a wonderful guy. You know, I don't think I need to tell you guys this. As great as Keith's voice is for television, and it is great, it is like perfect for podcasts. So let's just have applause. How many of you have I put into a deep sleep? Yeah, okay. Right. But now, how many of you has Keith put into a deep sleep? Yeah, that's, yeah. Asked and answered. Coming up, Ellison and I talk about the creation of my podcast, Missing in America, and also some cases that I'm keeping my eye on.

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14:42Talk to us about the way Dateline has sort of evolved over the years, right? Like, I think of Dateline and I watch it every night before I go to sleep. Like, clockwork. So, like, I'm so hooked and committed. But I also know I'm constantly interested in all of the different side projects that have come out of it. One that I know you have been really involved with and are passionate about is the Missing in America podcast. Right. Talk to me about the way that it has evolved. Where does that stand? Now, this began back in 2005 when I did a story. I'm probably the first story on television and one of the first stories everywhere about how TV was not covering anybody except missing white women.

15:22And that was in 2005. And from that came a couple of things. One is that conversation, that story, that spawned the Black and Missing Foundation, which is a wonderful outcome of that. It also led to our digital series called Missing in America, which actually ended up finding a couple of people who were missing and solving a couple of cases. Not as many as I would like, but some. And from that came this podcast series. For you, and you touched on it a little bit, but when you look back at the stories that you have told particularly in terms of people who are missing, what are the ones that really stay with you today?

16:02I mean, last season, one of the stories we did was that of Nancy Snow, who went missing from Annapolis, Maryland, like the day after the 1980 election. She was a campaign worker, Republican Party, and she just vanished off the face of the earth. And there's been one suspect during that time, but there's never been any arrest. And she's never been found. No trace of her has ever been found. And her daughters have sort of, you know, they've grown up always kind of wondering what happened to their mom. And what was so personal to me about that story was that I was covering politics back in 1979, 1980.

16:48And I was pretty sure I had met her. Like, she wasn't a friend of mine and she wasn't a source. But I knew what she had done. She had worked for the RNC on the Senate campaign side. And I'd covered the Senate campaigns in 1980. And I was like, we were in the same room. Like, I was introduced to her. When I saw that story, which was many years later, that's why I wanted to do it for Missing in America. And I would love it if that, you know, if our story had sort of kicked loose some tip that had changed things, but so far it hasn't happened. Every time we do one and we put that episode to bed, the producer and I always say to each other, wouldn't it be great if this solved it?

17:23Right. I mean, I really can't think of anything that would make me happier than having some piece of information that came through and resulted in either somebody being found alive or somebody being found so that their family could sort of go from that point and maybe solve the case as well. Maybe maybe lock somebody up. Are there any cases that are that you will tell us are on your radar that you haven't covered, but you want to? Well, my friend Madison McGee has a podcast called Ice Cold Case in which she's trying to solve the murder of her father. She's not at CrimeCon this year, unfortunately, but I did a thing with her in previous years.

18:06And when she finally does eventually solve that case and figure out what happened with her father, like that's going to be a Dateline story, absolutely. This is one reason why I keep sort of like expecting every time I talk to her that she's going to say, well, we know the answer. And so far, they don't know the answer, but they're definitely getting closer. And she has also sort of lit a fire under law enforcement over the years. So I'm sort of looking forward to see what happens with Madison. When we get back, I answer some questions from the audience. They had a lot of them. The first few weeks of school are the best time to catch up on last year's skills.

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21:40The people that are fairer in complexion. Is it something that Dateline and is it something that these programs are actively thinking about, about how to elevate those stories that maybe come from populations that are not as fair-skinned, parts of their stories that may be more problematic, lower socioeconomic backgrounds? but these are still very important stories to tell. Yeah, there was a time on Dateline which we would not do a story in which the person who had died was doing anything that might have exposed them to harm. So that all sorts of stories about, like, people in the commercial sex business and people who had done any kind of...

22:32who were involved, who had a criminal record for things. Like, that sort of ruled them out. But that was a long time ago. Like, we're really not doing that anymore. I mean, I did a story some years ago about the girls on the West Mesa outside of Albuquerque, all of whom were street sex workers. And that's a case we're still on top of because it's not clear that it's been solved or not. Nobody's been locked up for it. Maybe they know who did it. Maybe they didn't. Maybe that person's dead. Maybe they don't know. I think the idea that the victim couldn't have been doing anything illegal no longer rules you out at Dateline.

23:12And certainly for the last 20 years, I mean, since I did the story about Tamika Houston, the story which, as I was saying, sort of spawned the black and missing foundation, we're definitely not covering only fairer-skinned people. We're doing stories that look like America, and I've never been prouder of that. And that's also true in Missing in America.

23:35Yeah, I know for us, we have an episode on Gilgo Beach. And I thought so much about what I'd heard his daughter say in a documentary about how he didn't see the women he killed as people or as human. And I took a moment, and I think it's in our show, of where I sat and went through because I researched everything I could find about all of the people who were killed, beyond what they'd done for work, beyond the way that they died. and usually I'm so good at not crying in stories and I like I think my voice cracked where I choked up even reading it but just going through and focusing on like of one of those people where it was like her family she'd grown up in North Carolina and around the time of her funeral there'd been stuff that I'd read about where one of the pastors who done her funeral had talked about how even when she didn't have a lot one of the things she loved was giving gifts especially to her nieces and around Christmas time and how that was like her favorite time because even when she didn't have enough she would always want to find ways to give them gifts and to take care of the people around her and like having moments and stories and that's the thing that I've always loved watching Dateline as a viewer is that I feel like I usually walk away of hearing snippets of who that person was and remembering that and I think also for us it's like I love when people send story tips and ideas like I have a running list that I've started of people as they've started watching and being like, hey, what about this case?

24:52What about this case? And I'm like collecting and saving in a Google document because all of the stories, it's like I want to tell all of them. And constantly for me, every time I hear a story, I tend to see and read things about people who have lost their lives and just think I wish I had the opportunity to meet them and wanting to know who they are beyond this like horrible thing that happened to them. And I think that is what's like so true about like the true crime community. It's like most people are coming from that place of really caring and caring about people. And I think constantly how much I see that care in your reports on Dateline.

25:26And even in the podcast, all the ones that you've done on Missing in America, like Daniel Robinson, who went missing, I think the five-year anniversary of him going missing, right? He was working on a geology site, him going missing. And I know you've covered that extensively. It's an inexplicable story. Yeah. It's a great question. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. We're here. Hi. Hi. My name's Emily. I have more of a journalism-related question. I'm a little picky about my true crime, and one thing that I think Dateline does really well is by the end of the episode, they answer all the questions that I had.