Talking Dateline: Deadly Detour

0:00Insurance is not one-size-fits-all. That's why drivers have trusted Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years. Just tell Progressive what you want to pay, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Visit Progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, You keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place, so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done.

0:46Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

0:59Hi, everyone. I am Blaine Alexander, and today we are talking Dateline. I'm so happy to be joined by my good friend, Josh Mankiewicz. Hi, Josh. Hello. We are here to discuss your episode, Deadly Detour, and what an episode it was. So if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed, and then come right on back here for this conversation. Later, we'll have an extra clip from Josh's interview with several jurors from this case, then Josh will answer some of your social media questions about the episode. All right, Josh, my friend, let's talk Dateline.

1:33Just for our viewers who may not be as familiar, just kind of give us a quick rundown of what happened here.

1:39Blayne Alexander:Well, you know, Tex McIver was an attorney in Atlanta and a very big deal and had been for a long time. And he was married to Diane, who was also a very big deal in business in Atlanta. And so they were sort of this power couple. And they had this property way, way, way outside of town. And they had been there for the weekend and they were coming back. And as they were getting off the freeway, something happened. In Texas' version of what happened, he thought he was driving into the middle of a Black Lives Matter protest, which he was not. But he did say that. He was not driving, and Diane was not driving.

2:34Blayne Alexander:Driving was their friend, Danny Joe. Because he was afraid of what he thought was about to happen, and I will say that that sort of strains credulity a little bit, Tex took out his gun because he thought he felt at risk. And then nothing happened, but Tex kept his gun in his hand. And then And as they continued to drive, they went over a bump. Tex awoke with a start. He may have dozed off. Not really clear. But the gun went off. Now, admitting to holding a gun, falling asleep, and accidentally firing it is probably in itself some kind of crime. But what happened was he, the bullet went, he was in the backseat.

3:31Blayne Alexander:The bullet went through the front seat and hit his wife, Diane, during which she uttered a memorable phrase, which, you know, we called this deadly detour. But the only thing anybody remembers about this is her words, Tex, I think you shot me. And she was correct. He had shot her. And then they then drove to Emory Hospital, despite the fact that there were closer hospitals. And they took Diane to the emergency room, and they were not able to save her. She died as a result of being accidentally or, depending on who you ask, deliberately shot by her husband. And that was the basis of this story.

4:21I want to just talk about how big of a case this was. And this is something that you certainly bring forward in the episode itself. But it was so interesting for me watching this because I remember this whole thing playing out in real time. I remember it's crazy that it was a decade ago, but I was a local reporter when all of this happened. And the biggest thing that I remember, aside from us covering all of it, was you talked about the Cori Towers, this kind of iconic tower in Atlanta. And it's right at the interchange of 75, 85 and 20. So basically, if you're driving down the highway, you're going to see it.

4:52And her picture was up there for such a long time. I mean, it was something that everybody knew about and everybody noticed. How did you come to find out about this story, Josh?

5:01Blayne Alexander:You know, I think we read it in the paper. Or your station in Atlanta called us, which also does happen. and say you know as you know I mean we get we get alerts from local stations around the country all the time about stories that they're working on that they think might end up being a dateline story and it's the kind of story that makes a great dateline episode I mean the two of them Tex and Diane were memorable characters both in real life in Atlanta and sort of in the trial and the aftermath that followed. Did you ever cover either one of them before this? Did you know about them? Not before the shooting.

5:43No, not before the shooting. I was familiar with the company, with Corey, but I wasn't familiar with either one of them by name. But certainly, after all of this happened, I mean, and everybody started digging into it, I did. Here's what's interesting, though. I'll tell you the interesting way that this overlapped. The property that you talk about, this beautiful property that they had where they had their ranch, It was in Eatonton, Georgia, Putnam County. I know it well because my husband and I actually used to own property. Certainly nothing like that, by the way. Nothing even close to that.

6:13Let's be clear. Not even almost that grand. But we had some land and it was literally less than two miles away from where the ranch is. Like, I know exactly where that is. And so -

6:23Blayne Alexander:And so you know how isolated that is, that area, right? Oh, very. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you're going to commit a crime, if you want to get rid of your spouse and claim it was an accidental shooting, that's the place to do it. You're not going to have any witnesses. That's the place to do it. But also because, again, there was a shooting range there. Everybody's shooting guns there, right? So a shooting accident certainly does not stretch the limits of believability, right? And so something like that would have been easy to cook up out there. But I want to talk about Dani Jo. I love that you were able to talk with her.

6:56I love that she was as candid as she was. I love that we just had her voice in all of this. Because, I mean, how rare is it that we actually have the person who was right there when the crime happened? Usually these things happen in isolation or whatever it is. You don't hear from the person who was sitting right there when all of this unfolded. And so I'm curious if there are any behind the scenes you can tell us about her conversation. I'm just curious about what her demeanor was like as she was recounting all of this to you.

7:24Blayne Alexander:Here's the thing about Danny Gile. She was completely unafraid of what might happen in that interview. You know, a lot of people we talk with, you and I, right, they are worried about how they're going to come off. And they're worried about possible legal ramifications that might follow, right? Are they going to get charged? Are they going to be implicated in some way? Are they going to get sued? Danny Jo was not worried about any of that. She was completely forthright. And, you know, her testimony, like, did not get Tex off the hook. And although there was rampant speculation at the time that, you know, she was in on it with Tex, either because they were having an affair or because he was going to, like, cut her in on the money or something like that.

8:24Blayne Alexander:none of that turned out to be true either uh there was no relationship between danny joe and tex except a friendly one and she was sort of as much diane's friend or maybe more so than the than tex i mean there was nothing going on there which is again as i sort of was talking about before like like if you're gonna kill your wife you are not gonna do it in front of somebody who you don't know is going to back up your own story. Sure. You're going to do it with somebody who's going to say, oh, yes, that's absolutely right. There were people running toward the car with guns, and Tex took out his gun and accidentally shot Diane.

9:07Blayne Alexander:But there was none of that. I mean, she did not make Tex sound better in her testimony. She did not back up his story. And, you know, she was, I thought Danny Joe was a very sort of honest broker of all the facts in this case. And then she also, you know, drove around with me through the route they had taken from the shooting scene all the way to Emory Hospital, which is, again, a long way. Absolutely. Absolutely. I have to say, one of the things that really struck me about Danny Joe was that we saw the moment that she learned that Diane MacGyver had died. That was what that was really I just felt so bad for her in that moment.

9:52One, she's taken her friend to the hospital and I could see that she thought, OK, she shot in the back. This is wild. This is not good. But she felt comfortable enough that she was stable, that she felt OK leaving. But then to get that news via text message, mind you, which I thought was really rough. And then we see her kind of break down. You could just see how close they were. And then I just really felt for her.

10:17Blayne Alexander:You could. And I mean, that's the thing that says to me more than any other sort of investigative thing. I wasn't a part of this. You know, this is a terrible thing that I was a witness to, but that I played no role in this. And I think that's right. I think she didn't play any role in this. When we come back, Josh will share an extra clip of his interview with some of the jurors at Tex McIver's trial.

10:46There's a freedom in South Dakota. One that reminds you how travel is supposed to make you feel. No crowds, no rush, no pressure. Just the freedom to explore on your own terms. With over 5 million acres of forest and clear mountain lakes and national monuments, you're free to go fast or slow or whatever. Get your hiking boots dirty in the Black Hills. Get lost in the mazes of the badlands. or cast a line into the Missouri River. More into arts and culture? South Dakota offers creativity without constraints. There's unexpected art, local flavors, Native American heritage, and the freedom to explore at your own pace.

11:29Plus, family fun is whatever you want it to be. Kids can run ahead, parents can slow down, and everyone can enjoy the moments you never saw coming. South Dakota, free to roam. Start planning your adventure at TravelSouthDakota.com. Mint Mobile plans are only$15 per month. Wondering what's the catch? There isn't one. There are no gimmicks and no gotchas. Just unlimited talk, text, and data. Fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network. And an award-winning care team. That makes Mint Mobile a catch. You can bring your current phone and your phone number. Choose from three, six, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill.

12:17Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile. It's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash dateline. That's mintmobile.com slash dateline. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash dateline. That's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to$15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.

12:58This episode is brought to you by Penn Foster. Sometimes things don't go as planned, especially with high school. When you start to feel like you're falling behind, Having another option can make a real difference. Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program built for flexibility. So whether you're hoping to go back and finish what you started, or you're the parent of a teen who needs a different approach to education, there is a way forward. With self-paced courses, you have the freedom to learn on your own schedule. That way you can fit school around everything else going on in your life and stop falling behind.

13:39Don't just get back on track. Start moving forward with Penn Foster. Visit pennfoster.edu slash dateline to learn more.

13:54One of the big characters, we always talk about characters in our Dateline stories. Sometimes they're, of course, the people that we talk to. Sometimes it's the location, the city. In this one, I think that an unconventional character is Atlanta traffic. You start with Atlanta traffic. Atlanta traffic plays a big role in the way all of this went down. For some of our viewers who have never had the pleasure of visiting this fair city, I mean, I want to talk about Atlanta traffic because some people could look at this and say, gosh, is it that bad that you would need to exit and take this roundabout way?

14:25Yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.

14:28Blayne Alexander:I lived in Atlanta for three years from 1983 to 1986. Okay. So that'd be 40 years ago that I left, right? It was savage then. I can't even imagine what it was like in 2016 when this happened. It is one of the things that you have to plan. Sometimes I plan my entire week around how to navigate different things I'm doing around Atlanta traffic, right? between taking my daughter to school, doing interviews, just different things, because it is so unpredictable. And the only thing that's predictable is it's going to be bad at different times. And so hearing them say, okay, they had to exit because the congestion was just so bad, that makes perfect sense.

15:21That's not something that raises eyebrows. Yeah.

15:23Blayne Alexander:I mean, it was, look, look, we always look for something in a Dateline story to sort of get us out of the chair with the other person that we're interviewing. And sometimes, you know, you're walking around the crime scene. Sometimes you're visiting some important part of the story. But in this case, clearly, the thing that was most important was that this shooting happened during a car trip, which was then diverted to Emory Hospital. So we sort of started where they got off the freeway. And we ended at Emory, and we did it at night. And Danny Jo was driving. It was hard for her to drive, much harder for her to drive us than it had been to drive Texan Diane, because we had all these lights in the car to light the two of us up so that we could be seen on all the cameras that we put in the car.

16:19Blayne Alexander:So let's just say it was not optimum driving conditions, because we would get the stoplights, right? And you'd see people in the next car, like, look at it and it's like, what's going on in there? Why is that car lit up like a movie set? But I mean, so Danny Jo, I think, remarked a couple of times, like, she's like leaning forward, like, there's a lot of glare here, which there was not that night. Most people don't. Yeah. So that was the thing. But fortunately, we didn't have a problem. But to actually go through that route, what did you think when you were driving that with her? It's a long way.

16:59Blayne Alexander:It's a long way. And there is a hospital that is not only closer, but that handles gunshot wounds at a far greater number than Emory Hospital does. It's a level one trauma. It's great that she would take you on that drive, too. I think that that really helped and brought a lot to the story. Let's talk about guns and how guns fire. I love seeing you kind of demonstrating it at the end, right? The difference between firing it when it's cocked versus when it's not, pulling the trigger. Do you have a lot of firearms experience, knowledge? I don't. No. That's why we worked with a real firearms expert on this.

17:38Blayne Alexander:And you see him with me in the episode shooting the exact same model of gun that Tex used. And here's the thing. you've got to pull that trigger very hard for that gun to go off that is the thing i was i was surprised by when we sort of did that that test which is that is not a hair trigger you you have to you have to pull you have to put quite a bit of pressure on that trigger to get that gun to go off when you go over a bump on the road it's not that kind of hair trigger you have to pull that trigger sure absolutely let's talk about the trial um initially he was charged with involuntary manslaughter but prosecutors gathered more evidence they charged him with murder did they run the risk of overcharging him here kind of taking that next step i mean that's always a risk you know and that's always that's always a risk the prosecutors have when they have a case that's very high profile and you know there is some significant part of the of the the population in wherever it is that you live and wherever you're trying this case that, you know, sort of wants the book thrown at this person.

18:51Blayne Alexander:And that's when people do get overcharged because you have, you know, I'm not saying this happened in this case, but in a lot of cases you have like an elected DA who wants to appear tough on crime and is asking for the maximum penalty on everything. And the evidence doesn't always support the maximum penalty on everything. Before we get to the jurors, I want to, there was one piece that stood out to me during, I mean, several things about the trial stood out to me, but let's talk about the use of the prop, the prosecutor's use of the prop. He came out, he had that jar of muddy water. This was a thing that Clint is, Clint Rucker, no longer a prosecutor in Atlanta.

19:27Blayne Alexander:I think he's in private practice now. He, this is the thing Clint was famous for, was he would take this jar of water. I'm not sure from where, maybe out of the Chattahoochee. I'm actually not sure where it came from. But he would put this jar of muddy water on the wall that separates the well from the jurors. And he would say, this water is muddy. By the time I finish my closing argument, it will be clear. You will be able to see it. Then he talks for a while and he gives his closing argument. And then, of course, the silt has settled in this jar, this mason jar, and you can see through it. And so it's kind of a metaphor for what he's trying to achieve.

20:13Blayne Alexander:You know, Texas attorney, Bruce Harvey, who has a long ponytail, despite the fact that he's a grown man. Sorry. He has, I mean, come on. He has, on his shirts, he has a monogram on his shirts, Bruce Harvey does. And the monogram is, let me just make sure I have this right. I believe this is it. It says 13 and a half, 13 and one half. And that's his sort of mantra as a criminal attorney, which is 12 jurors, one judge, half a chance. Right? And that adds up to 13. And in other words, everything stacked against us, we have half a chance. That's the whole sort of attitude of criminal defense attorneys, which is not entirely wrong.

21:13Blayne Alexander:Prosecutors like Clint Rucker tend to go into cases like this with the deck stacked heavily in their favor. It's why prosecutors in murder cases around the country, like you talk to them, and they have records, one lost records in murder cases of like, you know, 28 and 1, 29 and 2. I mean, these are, they go in with the deck overwhelmingly in their favor. So Clint uses the mason jar with the silt and mud in it and the passage of time. And then Bruce Harvey has 13 and a half monogrammed on his shirts. Can I just say that everything you just ran down, that's so Atlanta. I love Atlanta. I mean, these are, both of these guys are fixtures in the legal community here.

22:01I've dealt with them a number of times. They're folks who are very familiar with the process, but yes, they have their ways that they go about arguing cases. And so it's always interesting to watch. We've got some characters down here. Let's talk about the jurors. We have an extra clip of you talking to some of them about their choice to convict Tex McIver, not of malice murder, but of the lesser charge, killing someone in the process of committing a felony.

22:28Blayne Alexander:All right, so you go in, and how quickly do you take a vote after deliberations begin? Pretty much right away. What was the first vote? Five, guilty, and then seven, lesser charge, or count one and two. And I felt like when we walked into the deliberation room that he was guilty. And we all thought he was guilty of something. We had a difficult time agreeing on what that was. and when you add all of the things up in this case too many things happen right next to each other to just say well he's not guilty the tempers fray voices raised there's some crying on some days crying there's yelling there was temper tantrums people storming out we we were making progress and then the air in that in the jury room was a defeat of you know we're 12 grown people it was respect for each other how come we couldn't come to a decision and we came back in we agreed as a group that we were going to give it one more shot we went back to our notebooks and found the evidence and that's that was i think the pivotal moment actually where we said look tex himself is the only person that said i woke up i had the gun and just went off and his own attorney the only testimony we had was it it wasn't caught so he had to pull the trigger and And I think that's what did it.

23:49Blayne Alexander:Not guilty of malice murder, not guilty of trying to kill his wife, but guilty of trying to shoot her? What, Tex was trying to shoot Diane, but not kill her? I don't get it. One of the things that we had to do with the murder charges, we had to determine, particularly for those of us who were in the guilty camp, can we truly find the intent? And we couldn't. Yeah, I mean, for aggravated assault, there's an intent to cause bodily harm, right? And when we looked at the evidence, that's the only action that we had actually any testimony around. And for the actual malice and hatred and the intent to murder his wife, there was a lot of reasonable doubt in my mind.

24:38Blayne Alexander:But there was no doubt that he intended to shoot her. Well, again, I think when you look at the moment where the gun goes off, did it go off unintentionally or did it go off on purpose? You think justice was done here? Yes. I do. I do. I remember once we came to that, to the final decision, I think everybody felt not a sense of relief that it's over, but a sense of relief that we made the right decision. A lot to consider there. That's interesting to hear that. Yeah, you know, and I mean, I think one of the things you can tell from that conversation is that they would have loved to be able to consider a charge of involuntary manslaughter.