Talking Dateline: The Bluegrass Mystery

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1:11Hi, everyone. I'm Andrea Canning, and we are Talking Dateline. And today we're joined by Blaine Alexander to talk about her episode, The Bluegrass Mystery. And if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here. Later, we'll have an extra clip from Blaine's interview with one of Ella Jackson's friends about the two words she'd use to describe Ella as a mom. But first, let's talk Dateline. Hey, Blaine, how are you? Let's do it. Andrea, I'm so glad to see you. How are you? Good, and I hope that you had a wonderful birthday because I know it's a big one.

1:45Congratulations. 40 years, which is wild. Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to say 30. I thought you were 30. You're so sweet. You look 30. Thank you, Milo. So I'll take it. I'll take all of that energy as I enter my 40s. Okay. Thank you. So, all right. So let's get right to this episode. Blaine, first, just give us a little recap of the Bluegrass Mystery and what it was about. So this is a story that takes place in Kentucky, as the name might tell you. This centered around Ella Jackson. She is somebody who was a fantastic mom by all accounts. She had an adult son, Philip, and a younger son who's about six years old named Alex.

2:22But one day, her husband called 911 to say that she'd gone missing. Please don't do anything until about 24 hours later when her adult son calls and says, you know what? This is not like my mom. This doesn't seem good. Please investigate. Investigators, look at three men in her life. Her current husband, Glenn, her ex-husband, Jason, to whom she's still very close and friendly, and her adult son, Philip. And so through a number of different twists and turns, they ultimately settle on Glenn Jackson, her current husband, who had killed her and disposed of her body. Yeah. I mean, let's start from the beginning, that 911 call.

2:56That was one of the most bizarre 911 calls I think I've ever heard, where, you know, he's saying, you know, I heard on a show, you don't wait to report someone missing. And then he's talking about how everything is great, like with him. Or I just, what is happening in this 911 call? It was the oddest thing that I have ever heard. Can I just let that? Can I help you? Hi, my name is Glenn Jackson. This is not an emergency. I haven't heard from my wife for over 24 hours. Okay. Is the child with you? Yes, yes. He's fine. Everything's great. I don't personally think anything is wrong, but I heard on a show a while back that you don't wait three or four days to report somebody missing.

3:43Right. And I kept, I kind of refer to this as like the tale of two 911 calls, because you have these two calls that come in and about 24 hours apart. But yes, the first one is from Glenn Jackson, her husband, who has no concern in his voice, doesn't seem worried. In fact, he basically says, this isn't a big deal. My son and I are good. It's just that my wife has gone and I don't know where she is. And so most people listening to that would say, oh, that's an odd reason to call 911. But when I spoke with the investigator who led this entire thing, he told me that he really gives so much credit to Philip, Ella's adult son, for making that second 911 calling saying, please check into this.

4:19This is not my mom's normal behavior. You need to look further into this. It reminded me of when I was a local news anchor reporter in Cincinnati. I was working the night beat, you know, and I had been sent to the police station to cover some story. and this man came in to the little waiting area where I was waiting to do my interview. He comes in and he tells them at the window that his wife is missing. And he's very calm, like doesn't seem really too concerned. I'm sitting right there listening to the whole thing. And I said to him, I was like, do you want help from the news? Like I'm a news reporter.

5:00Would you like? And he's like, no, no, no. I'm no. It's fine. We're not there. And I was like, all right, you know, I guess it's probably fine. She'll turn up. And sure enough, her body was found behind a motel. And it went unsolved for a really long time until I, you know, I looked it up not too long ago. Like, whatever happened to that woman? And he pled guilty to her murder. So I was there the moment he reported her missing in the police department. I just happened to be sitting there on a bench listening to the whole thing and thinking, This guy is a little too calm. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of how it is, right?

5:36Like we say this a billion times whenever we do these stories. There is no guidebook or playbook of how you should react when something like this should unfortunately befall your family. But if your wife is gone missing, if someone you love is just gone and you don't know where they are, yes, you would expect a certain level of, you know, fervor, concern, something. I have to be honest. I also think as uncomfortable as that situation would be to be in, I think I would probably go down to the police station and say, hey, is there somebody I can talk to? But I digress, Blaine. That's so funny. So let's talk about Jason, who you mentioned was the ex-husband.

6:20This was unbelievable to me. So as much as I thought based on that opening 911 call that Glenn had done this, then I hear about Jason and the fact that he has a wife who was murdered and it was unsolved. I was like, okay, Jason, wow, Jason must have done this. You know, I was really, it really threw me for a loop because what are the odds? And now your second ex-wife has been murdered and you're still close to that ex-wife. if I thought maybe he's not over her and, you know, he did this. It is really unbelievable that there's somebody who essentially lightning would strike twice, right? Like that you would be somebody whose wife is murdered in cold blood.

7:02I mean, he's young. They're just starting their lives together. And then decades later, almost essentially the same thing happens, right? He was still very emotional when he spoke about his first wife, Irina. Like he started tearing up and I think it even caught him by surprise, right? Because this is 20 plus years removed from this crime. And it still chokes him up. It's interesting, though, he drew a distinction because I asked him, I said, how does one get through something like that, have another tragedy happen and then get through that again? And he said he sees them so very differently. He says his first wife, he's like, this is like the product of a system.

7:34Whatever happened, whoever would go up to someone and just kill them in cold blood, there was some sort of societal something that made this person the way they were, right? That was kind of his rationale of it. But he said, but when he talks about Ella, the fact that she was killed by somebody with whom she was supposed to have been the safest, her spouse, that is the one that really angers him because that's the place where you're supposed to be safe. That is a cruel – like that's more of a cruel crime in his mind. But to your question though, Andrea, about – certainly it makes him look suspicious.

8:05And that's exactly what Detective Friend told me. That's what the chief told me. Even if they were very suspicious of Glenn, there's no way that you cannot take a second and third look at Jason when you hear that. It sounds like he struggled a little bit with the interview, even though he's an open book. He had nothing to hide. But it sounds like it was very hard for him to sit down and talk about all this. I think it was hard for him to talk about his first wife to a degree because that is still so raw. I think in talking about Ella, his focus was very much, I want to get justice for her. And so he channeled it.

8:40There's grief, but also there's, like I said, anger. And there was a lot of just like, no, we're going to nail this guy. I mean, it must be really unsettling to know that Irina, his first wife, that that crime is still unsolved to this day. How many years has it been? More than 20 years, easily. Well, here's what's strange about this, Andrea. This happened right in the midst of the D.C. sniper case. Oh, my gosh. I remember that like it was yesterday. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's something that all of us remember. We remember just the terror. And so when we went to Prince George's County and I spoke with the detectives there, I mean, they just kind of talked about, remember, the fear.

9:13Like everybody, they were hanging, remember, tarps over gas stations so people could pump their gas. And it was just terrifying. And so initially, when they found her just shot, dead, nothing taken, no robbery, they thought, oh, my God, is this another sniper victim? And so they investigated it like that for a little bit, but then they realized it doesn't fit the pattern. So, yeah, I mean, is there anything, Blaine, I was just thinking, since it's unsolved, Irina's case, are there any details that you can give to people listening if there's any tips to be called in? This is something that the Prince George's County executive wanted to speak about because it is – I mean, at the end of the day, it's a cold case.

9:51And they were very eager to have the opportunity to speak about this case. It happened off the Green Line. She was walking from the metro station to her apartment, and she was shot point-blank range. Nothing was taken, no cards, no credit cards, no money, no anything. She was found with a can of mace in her hand. And that's it. They didn't see that there was any sign of a struggle or anything. No? No, no assault. Part of the reason why they thought sniper initially, because there seemed to be no reason. No rhyme, no reason, no anything like that. I asked the detective, I said it was almost like somebody was laying in wait, waiting for her.

10:24He said, yes, that's what it seemed like. So somebody who would have known that she lived there, that she takes the metro, that she kind of walks that path. But yes, they are looking for any tips. And so they said, hey, if it jogs any memories, if anybody remembers anything, to please call Prince George's County. Do you know her last name? Hans. Hans? Okay. Yep, Irina Hans. Who should people call if they have a tip? They should call Prince George's County Police Department. Okay. And that's 1-866-411-TIPS. And her name was Irina Hans. So they're looking for any information. Well, I'm sure she has a family who would love to get more answers, including Jason.

10:59Jason, absolutely. Blaine, when we get back, we are going to play a little bit more of your interview with Ella's friend, Jolynn, who is going to talk to us about what an incredible mother Ella was. insurance is not one size fits all that's why drivers have trusted progressives name your price tool for years just tell progressive what you want to pay and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget visit progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building.

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12:41You know, what a wonderful twist in a really horrible story that Jason and his wife for adopting Bella's son, Alex. I mean, that was really amazing. You know, it's one of those things where you never know kind of how a story will end. And happy endings are so very rare when we do these types of stories. But that really was just a beautiful wrap up of all of this. I think the whole thing, the relationship between Jason and Ella is just a beautiful reminder that love can take so many different forms. They didn't work as husband and wife, but they still really had love for each other and wanted to remain in each other's lives.

13:23To the point that Ella, I mean, it was clear that Jason was the person she trusted when she was trying to get away from Glenn. She would call Jason when she was trying to figure out how do I, you know, I'm not in a good marriage. I'm not in a good situation. What should I do? That was the person that she kind of went to for advice. And so their love didn't work in a marriage setting, but it really did work. I mean, he is the person that kind of took over. So he said, you know, I know what Alex meant to her. Like, I love him simply because she loved him. And so that's really what started. And I have to give a shout out to Natalia as well, because that's Jason Hans' current wife.

13:58His wife. And what a beautiful show of love on her part to just say, gosh, we don't have kids, but okay, come on in. We're going to adopt her. Become a full-time mom. I mean, that is something. Oh, what good people. And Ella, by all accounts, it sounds like she was an incredible mom. And I know we have an extra clip from one of Ella's friends talking about Ella as a mom. Who are we going to hear from, Blaine, in this clip? We're going to hear from JoLynn Stevenson. She is a neighbor of Ella's, lived nearby, and basically watched Ella raise Alex and got to know her very well. They go from, you know, just being, oh, neighbors, we wave, to becoming really, really good friends.

14:38And so she speaks beautifully about the kind of mother that Ella was. Ella took motherhood very seriously. Very seriously. It was her primary focus in life. What did that look like? Just kind of describe that for me. All in. All in. It was, that was her main focus. She felt, or at least it seemed that she felt, She could throw as much love and joy and, you know, a real wonderness of childhood into her children that maybe what she had been through wouldn't be forced onto them. Her sons really were the center of her world. All the time. Absolutely. Yeah. How would she, whenever a parent talks about their child, there's typically this kind of sound of pride in their voice.

15:27I mean, you can feel the love. You can feel the pride. How would Ella talk about her sons? Exactly as you said, with pride. Being the center of her world, I never heard her speak negatively about them. I never heard her be frustrated with them. I'm sure she was. I'm sure she was. I'm a mother. I know. You're a mother. You know. But she never said, oh, my gosh, driving me crazy. He's driving me. He's doing all this stuff. She never used those moments to burden someone else with that frustration. It sounds like she was just really mindful of the energy she put out to everybody around her. Yes. And I, to this day, do not know how she did it.

16:10It's a skill. It's an incredible skill. Yeah. It's an incredible skill. Yeah. I don't know how she did it. So that was Jolynn. I mean, you could just hear Andrea when she talks about her friend. She just admired her. I mean, she was kind of a mom role model for her. she talks about just the many ways that Ella would pour into Alex. And we keep talking about Alex, of course, because he was the younger one, but it was the very same with Philip. But by this time, Philip was an adult. He's grown. I mean, they had a close relationship, but it was very different. But I mean, would read to him constantly.

16:41I mean, just filling his mind with science. And it's interesting because when I met Alex, you know, and we said he didn't want to show his face current day, but he really wanted to be there to honor his mom. He's a brilliant child. I mean, worldly, it's clear that he travels a lot now with Jason and Natalia, but he traveled a lot with his mom. You know when you come across kids and you're like, oh, you're going to do well. Like he is one of those children. And so you can see just the nurturing that his mom poured into him even at an early age. And so Jolynn really captured that, I think. I love that.

17:14I love that. I mean, that is one of the best endings, you know, that I've seen in a while where the son runs into the arms of two loving people who really want him. Yes, exactly. And are going to, you know, keep him hopefully on the right track, which it sounds like he's doing great. Yeah. And who actually knew his mom. Like Jason actually knew his mom and can really speak about his mom. So it really is such a beautiful situation for him. One of the things that really struck me from the story that we see so often is victims speaking through their own words from before they died. And this was a really good example of a victim who had big concerns and kind of knew that something might happen.

18:06I mean, she made close to 70 kind of secret recordings. of these interactions that she had with Glenn. The reason that she was trying to get all of her ducks in a row, according to Jason, was that she was fearful of what would happen to Alex if she were to leave. Because she said, this is according to Jason, to the investigators, that she feared that Glenn had connections, he had money, he had means, and that were she to leave, that he would be able to take custody of Alex. And so she was trying to work with an attorney. She was trying to work with advocates to kind of figure out what she could do to get out of the situation, but also make sure that she kept custody of her young son.

18:44And so that was, by all accounts, kind of the delay in getting out. But in the meantime, she was very clear that she was endangered. And so she was recording. She wrote in her journal to say basically this about her husband. And then, as you heard from Philip in one of the police interviews, she even told her adult son, hey, if something happens to me, here's where you need to look. All the red flags were there. And he is just an odd guy, Glenn. He is. He drops to his knees at the park when he's been annoying women. And then the officer sees him and he drops to his knees and says, this is how I talk to students.

19:20And you're like, yeah, these are not kindergarten students. These are college students. Basically adults. Yes. I'm so glad that we got that body camera video because it really had nothing to do with the story, but it gave a very good window into the type of person that Glenn was. And this is just his oddities. I mean, I think Detective Friend did a very good job of describing it in our interview. And I should mention that was the first time Detective Friend had ever sat down, ever done an interview. That was the first time he'd spoken about this. But he really talked about in those long interviews that he would have with Glenn, just how strange it was.

19:55I mean, this is somebody who's just would be, I guess the word filibuster comes to mind. I mean, would sit and filibuster and just have these kind of meandering explanations. But then, yes, the body camera video, he's out there at a dog park talking to women, but obviously they're very uncomfortable, uncomfortable enough to call police. He squats down, keeps getting back up. I mean, all of it together just paints a picture of a very strange individual. But the detective was very clear, but he was like, you know, this is somebody who always wanted to be the smartest person in the room, right? And that's the same thing that Jolene said about him.

20:30That's the same thing that Dana, another one of Ella's friends, said about him. All of them were like, he is this person who wanted to be the smartest person in the room and kind of had this way of talking down to people in a sense. Meanwhile, he was like the weirdest guy in the room. Yeah, strangest. For sure. I would say. Okay, so I do, I never want to be judgy. However, I will say this. I love this intro, by the way. I'm sure this man is very nice. But the friend who did not tell the police when Glenn basically confessed to killing Ella, and then he was like, I didn't know if it was a real confession.

21:10I'm like, how about you err on the side of caution? I mean, the confession itself was wild, right? That Glenn called him over under the guise of, hey, let's get our kids together. Let's have a play date. And he takes his phones. He describes how Glenn took both of their phones and put them in the car, like away from them. Oh, my gosh. And then comes back and kind of, you know, the way that we were standing leaning against the car, that's kind of how the conversation went, essentially, according to him. This is not enough for this man. And he confesses. And he confesses, yeah. That this might be real.

21:41And, you know, and you heard me ask him. I was like, why not take this to police? He eventually did. But he said, yeah, she hadn't been found. I didn't know if it was real. Really wasn't sure. Um, there, there are some questions I know that some, some folks have over that, but that's, yes. Well, you were very nice to him, but I was like, come on, let's just use some common sense here. Uh, the, you know, a lot was made of the, the sentence that Glenn received and I'm sorry, but like he could be out by 2034. First of all, he's on house arrest. Then they give him time served for his house arrest.

22:18And then it's this short. So let's talk about the house arrest. To make bond on murder charges first is wild, but to come out and to be able to be on house arrest for five years, I mean, that is an incredibly long time. And Joanne talks about the fact that, I mean, remember, she still lives nearby. And so she sees the guy walking to the mailbox, like she sees him knowing that he's been arrested for allegedly killing her friend. That's just got to be terrifying in and of itself. But then move on to that and then he or move on past that. And it's the Alford plea that he takes. And just Alford plea for anybody who's listening.

22:51It's basically acknowledging that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict you without actually pleading guilty to it or taking responsibility. And that just incensed a lot of people. It really did. Don't blame them. And then yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then that sentence is short, like you said. All right, Blaine, coming up next, we are going to highlight some of the questions and comments people have. Love it. Coming up. All right. Looking to scale your outcomes beyond search and social? Realize is Taboola's AI-powered performance platform, driving incremental growth by engaging high-intent users across a global network of 600 million daily active users on premium websites.

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