Talking Dateline: The Other Side of Paradise

0:03Hey, everyone. It's Andrea Canning and we are talking Dateline. Today, I'm joined by Keith Morrison to discuss his episode, The Other Side of Paradise. If you haven't listened to this episode yet, it is the episode two below this one on your Dateline feed. So go there and listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come back here. To recap, when Sandra Gallis was found strangled to death in her car, her friends and family assumed her estranged husband, Darren, was responsible. But investigators didn't have enough evidence to charge him for the crime and the case went cold until new forensic testing and the man's calendar proved enough to make an arrest.

0:42For this Talking Dateline, we have a clip from Darren Gallus' sentencing from the letter Sandra and Darren's sons wrote in support of their father. Okay, let's talk Dateline. Okay, let's do that. Keith, I found myself just on a roller coaster in this episode. My heart was breaking for Larry the longer that this dragged on and on and on. And it did drag, that's for sure. It's been a nightmare for that poor family. He and his really delightful wife, who is not a public person and didn't want to be a public person. But, you know, the two of them together have just gone through hell for quite a long time.

1:20Keith, you actually learned about this story kind of in a roundabout way. You're our Hawaii correspondent, I feel like. And so you were in Hawaii and found out about this, right? We were doing another story, another really fascinating story there that took us a long time to do, as some of these stories do, about a polar player. And so we were shooting video around this little part of the island where our subjects hung out and saw this poster on a store window. and it was a poster put up by Larry Mendoza, her father. And it was so curious the way it was posted there, the way it was written. Vince Sterla, my producer, gave him a call and so began a very long series of communications back and forth over the years.

2:20But also we just followed it for a long time. and because the twists and turns were so extraordinary and so frustrating for all involved. Larry, of course, famously said something about how Hawaii is a paradise if you want to commit a murder. I remember him saying that. If you want to commit a murder, do it in Kauai because you'll never get caught. That was his attitude about it. Not that they weren't trying. The police departments were doing whatever they could. And in fact, one of the key detectives on this case was as dogged as anybody I've seen. He just kept at it and kept at it and kept at it until finally he found what he felt was the key.

2:59And, you know, the police chief we interview in the story, when he heard about Larry's story, he had just lost his own son. He just identified so thoroughly with Larry that he made a promise that he would do everything in his power to see that the case was solved. And that relationship was fascinating to watch, too. a wonderful guy, this police chief. I mean, he was tearing up during your interview. And he's not just tearing up for the situation and Sandra, but you can see he's tearing up about his own personal situation and feeling that empathy toward Larry. Look, Kauai is a lovely place. There must be two or three or four fictional detective stories with titles like Murder in Paradise or something like that.

3:52The idea of a paradise where nothing bad ever happens and a murder occurs is a kind of a trope of fiction. But in fact, in nonfiction, it happens too. And Kauai, which kind of in a way is like small town America, Hawaiian style, but it's very laid back and low key, and it's not sort of a fancy, big, super-duper resort-type place, with few exceptions. But otherwise, it's the kind of place where you just wouldn't expect anything bad to happen. But it also is the kind of place where sometimes it takes a little longer to get something accomplished. And often the news travels person-to-person as opposed to being a kind of an official record that is kept in some central organ.

4:46So it's a different kind of place. And it's lovely for it, but sometimes it makes it harder to kind of drill down on something like a murder. Yeah, yeah. And I felt that way, you know, covering some stories on, you know, the Virgin Islands, Caribbean locations. I have been to Kauai for a day. During my honeymoon, I went on the helicopter ride. ride, you know, they shot Jurassic Park there. But, you know, it is you do see when you go there, you see that paradise side of things. Right. And so I thought the title was very clever, the other side of paradise, because you do see these houses and neighborhoods that that you don't see as a tourist, but that people live there.

5:30That's their lives. That's they have jobs. And so it was it was a it was an interesting sort of like pull back the curtain. Right. On paradise. So you and Lori Vella went to the same island for your honeymoon. Oh, Keith. Oh my gosh. Why does that just feel so disturbing right now? You had to, right? You had to. Oh my goodness. It was beautiful though. I mean, that helicopter ride was magical. It was really incredible. It is a lovely, lovely island. What a beautiful place. Yes. In fact, it's one of my favorite places on the planet. And Vince and I have made friends there who will be friends for the rest of our lives.

6:15Nice. So the biggest question I have is, when are you going to give up one of your Hawaii stories to me? So Andrea can finally go to Hawaii. Well, you know. It's not happening, is it? The Tuesday after. You're not giving it up. Never. Never. I mean, it's nice, right? You know, no offense to like upstate New York in January, but, you know, kind of beats that. I used to go to Alaska a lot, too. And I love doing stories in Alaska. But we are, I haven't been there lately. Do you want to go to Alaska? You know, that's the only state in the entire country that I have not been to is Alaska. Yeah. And I would absolutely like to go to Alaska.

7:01Yes. It looks so beautiful. Lovely. All right. When we come back, we have a clip from Darren Gallis' sentencing from a letter Sandra and Darren's sons wrote in support of their father.

7:17So, Keith, is there some talk then that there could be someone else involved in this? There is really no talk at this point that there could be somebody else involved. The difficulty with the case was that there were really two possible suspects. One was her boyfriend, and then one was her soon-to-be ex-husband. He was estranged and living with a girl, right? So they both moved on. Any thought on why both Ryan and Darren failed polygraphs? Well, polygraphs are not very reliable. Well, when I say not very reliable, They're certainly, we are told repeatedly, an investigative tool that can be very helpful because it tells you, you know, when somebody is nervous about something or is hiding something.

8:10And it doesn't necessarily tell you whether they're, you know, they've passed or failed and therefore they're either guilty or not guilty. But it leads you in certain directions. But the fact that they both failed could have other reasons. Ryan, for example, who was later convicted of some very serious drug crimes. So what was he thinking as he's been questioned by the officers? What was he thinking when he found her body and didn't report it for a couple of hours? Was he thinking they're going to question me and they're going to find out that I am a drug dealer and they're going to put me in jail for that and I'm now caught because of what has happened to her?

8:52That's going to make a person pretty nervous during an interrogation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The police, you know, given that they believed Sandra's ex-husband, Darren, might have had something to do with this, what did they think the motive was? They'd been fighting over custody for a long time. There was no love lost between them. A very tense situation. So that's where the motive came from. And the way the calendar comes into it is that Darren, the ex-husband, kept a very careful record of every time he picked her up. If she was late by five minutes, he could mark it down. She was late that day, all of those kinds of things.

9:35But it was blank the last morning that she went over there. And the detective finally figured out that what happened there was that she went over, they had an argument, she left without taking the kids, And then somebody followed her. Was it Darren? That was what the prosecutor decided until the new prosecutor came along and said, we can't really prove it. The new prosecutor that came on, I realize being a prosecutor is not an easy job. Right. I realize that they want to have the right evidence and strategy to win. But I mean, did he do the right thing? I'd love to know your thoughts on that. Well, you know, I looked back.

10:26The interview I had with him was pretty contentious. And I, you know, I challenged him repeatedly because, you know, you and I have both dealt with prosecutors who would take on a case that difficult every day. Yeah, absolutely. Wouldn't have any trouble with it. A hundred percent. But he was just especially cautious, and he felt that because some evidence could point to another person, who, by the way, had an alibi, but maybe it was a manufactured alibi, you know, that kind of thing, that there was just the chances of an acquittal were strong enough that he felt that he should hold off. And in the end, he wound up offering this deal, which was to plead no contest to assault.

11:11So you plead no, what is it? Was it no contest? No contest. It means you're not pleading guilty, but no contest is kind of a gray area in between. You know, you're not going to challenge their assertion that you committed a certain offense. You're not saying you did it. You're not saying you didn't do it, but you're not going to challenge it. You know, the sentencing in these cases, you're always on a little bit of pins and needles. This one in particular, when we were waiting on the judge to give the sentence. To decide what the sentence would be, yeah. For Darren. And you could just feel it.

11:46Oh, yeah. You could feel the pressure. One of the more tense days I've ever encountered. It was quite something. And when she said 10 years, all I could think about was Larry. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Larry's still around. and Darren will be out soon and they'll have to figure out how to get along. That's all. I don't suppose they'll see much of each other, but life goes on. Or don't run into each other. One of the difficult moments of the story was when Larry had a heart attack. Yes. And I thought, oh no, please tell me that Larry's not going to die before he sees the end of this. Yeah. And that really had me on edge.

12:36I think getting to the end of this was really what kept him going in that whole difficult period. He just had to be there. He certainly was the center of this and the heartbeat of this story. He absolutely was. It was such an incredible journey that you went on with him. Yeah. And for a long time. I mean, just about 10 years. Oh, the moment where Larry, you know, says that he fulfilled his promise to Sandra, you know, even if it didn't turn out exactly the way he hoped, it was pretty much there. Right. At some point, you have to accept what you can get. And I think that's the way it was. But he had done his very best for her.

13:24And that is, in the end, what mattered. I think he was able to, I'm not sure what the right word is, but absorb it and go on with his life a little more, with a little more ease than he otherwise would have been able to. Because certainly he was tormented by it for so long. Right, because sort of, you know, what else is left for him to do at that point, right? He was on a crusade. Yes, he was indeed. And then the crusade was essentially over with that plea. What they would have liked, mind you, was to have some contact with their grandchildren. Oh, yes. I was going to ask you about that. That didn't happen.

14:05As far as I know, it's still not happening. Oh, that's terrible. Yes, it's very sad. And it certainly is something that they wanted to have happen. We see that a lot in these stories. You've seen it. I've seen it where the children take sides or, you know, they've been told one thing by, you know, that's Darren is the only parent they have now. Right. Because Sandra is gone and they don't want to lose Darren, too. You know, and you don't want to believe that your father would be capable of killing your mother. Right. So I do think in some cases it's it's easier to believe that or accept that. Now, in this case, we should just, again, Darren pled no contest to assault.

14:50Darren was not convicted of murder. Correct. So there's that, but there certainly are people who think Darren killed Sandra. There are, yes, indeed. And no matter what they think, he will be getting out of prison quite soon. Speaking of the sons, Keith, they wrote a letter in support of their father, which was read by Darren's attorney at sentencing. Let's take a listen to that. We're writing to you with regards to my father, Darren Gallus. We would like you to know the kind of man he is and has been to us throughout our life. The one thing we could say that would describe our dad as a role model.

15:33Our entire life we've looked up to our father as someone who inspired us to be kind, humble, and committed. we fully understand the situation we are in and the devastation it has caused our entire family yet through all our dad is committed to his family and shows unconditional love for his two sons three step-sons daughter and wife our dad has never been anything but loving and caring that should not suffer for something he did not do you know it it it is a fascinating story simply because of these uncertainties and that's what makes stories interesting And certainly you can identify with Larry Mendoza and you can identify with the other people who took part in this story and tried to solve it and believe that they found the right answer.

16:19That's justice on the move finally after so many years of trying. But then you listen to the kids of this person who's been accused and they've heard a different story for all that time. You know, I think if I ever said this before, it's probably going to sound dumb when I say it. Never, Keith. I cannot remember which ancient Greek philosopher it was, but it's one of my favorite expressions, which is opinions are toys for children. Dangerous toys. because your whole attitude about life, about justice, about everything is skewed and altered simply because you've got a freaking opinion, which may not be right, quite possibly wrong.

17:07Well, it's human. We're humans, right? Like everyone's different. Everyone brings different life experience to their opinion. you know there's all think about all the factors that go into an opinion a lot of factors but that doesn't mean my opinion is going to be any better than yours I'm sure I'm sure we have probably some similar opinions and then probably some different opinions I've actually had some conversations with you where we've had different opinions about things really I don't believe that I've forgotten You don't remember yelling at me when I tried to, you know, save my thought? No, I'm kidding.

17:48I'm kidding. Keith could never yell at anyone. Oh, that's nice. Thank you very much. We should say when he's getting out, he, Darren actually had his sentence reduced by six months by the Hawaii Paroling Authority. so his current official release date is currently may 1st 2028 up next remembering sandra

18:23we do a lot of stories where the families don't give up it becomes their life's mission right larry is almost the poster child for that i mean he he wow like he's just so impressive What do you think Larry did that was so right, you know, in his crusade? He went about everything in a legal way. He did not, you know, he didn't go crazy and go and try to kill somebody, although he certainly said he wanted to. He felt like doing so. But he didn't do it. And, you know, he said, I would have if the opportunity presented itself and they had not done the right thing. Well, I don't think so. But he did doggedly put up flyers everywhere.

19:05He did continue to follow the case. He did continue to make investigative calls. He did just every day, every week, every month, every year, he worked at it. Did what he could. Did what he could that was legal. And that's really what the secret is. It's just kind of a feet on the ground, away you go. Yeah, keeping the case alive. That's exactly right. Keeping it out there. Thankfully, with the datelines we do, usually, you know, the family's not giving up pays off. Yeah. You know, and that's what makes a great dateline story. Right. And so the families that never give up and never get an answer are there too.

19:50Yes. And probably more of them than the ones that do get an answer. Unfortunately, yes. Yeah, it's heartbreaking stuff. Those are the hard ones where they just, yeah, they can't get that traction. You just could feel the love that Larry and his wife had for Sandra. I mean, that is just, it was so obvious how much they cared about her. Yeah. Yeah. And when we learned about her, we kind of felt the same way. She was obviously a very lovable person. She was. But yeah. And beautiful. And her kids, you know, they were so cute. you know, the pictures with Sandra and her boys, they were just adorable.

20:33Um, and, you know, and in closing, um, you know, what's so sad is that, you know, it's on Sandra's dashboard. Um, you know, if you watched the episode, it says Island girl, you know, and that's, that's really, you know, she was an Island girl, you know, she, she was a beautiful Island girl. Um, and she was a mom and a friend and a daughter and all these things. And she was starting this new chapter, you know, and it's just, it's so heartbreaking because she was so loved. Yeah. One wonders what she would be doing now. But we know what her parents are doing. They have the Sandra Gallis Golf Tournament every year held in her memory and it raises money for the YWCA's mission to end domestic violence.

21:25And this year it will be taking place on actually on my daughter's birthday, August 3rd. Really? That's your daughter's birthday? Yeah. She will be turning 13. Keith, thank you for this. Thank you so much. I mean, this is really one of this is one of your best stories. And I mean that in the way that just you show you connecting, you know, with. Thank you. With Larry and just like how much you cared about him, about Sandra, about the story, about all of it. And just the trips you made going back and forth to really get this story right and to keep it alive for them. You know, you were a big part of that.

22:07Thank you. That's very nice. That's it for Talking Dateline this week. Remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories or about Dateline, you can reach us 24-7 on social media at Dateline NBC. Have a question for Talking Dateline? Leave it for us in a voicemail at 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured on a future episode. Plus, an all-new season of Josh Mankiewicz's podcast Missing in America debuted this week. The series takes a deep dive into the country's most perplexing, unsolved missing persons cases. Catch new episodes every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we'll see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.

22:48Thanks for listening.