Why the current tech backlash feels different

25:42So I guess the question here for you, Neelai, is do you feel like Google is kind of getting away with not being held responsible for what it's doing to the web with AI? And do you think Sundar has a sense of Google's culpability for the swath of destruction that's being left in the wake of the AI era? And do you think he's ever going to address or acknowledge this, or is he still going to disagree with the premise five years from now? That's a lot of questions. I'm going to just issue the caveat, I think, that comes up in every single Mailbag episode. Sometimes it feels to me like the audience is mad that I don't arrest the CEOs on Decoder.

26:20I said it's an arrest over Riverside. Yeah, that's a feature we don't have yet. Maybe one day. Well, I was in person with Sundar. We could have cuffed him. That's true. That's right. Maybe one day I'll be granted this power. I'll be deputized by the internet police to arrest the CEOs. All I can do is ask the questions. And, you know, it has been five years of talking to Sundar. I hope he comes back next year. I, you know, I think it's remarkable that he's the one who comes and takes the heat. And we, you know, we ask them all and I can't make them show up. They have to decide to want to do it.

26:52And he decides he wants to do it. So I appreciate that he shows up and takes the heat and that he's willing to do it. The thing that I get, let's use the Condé Nast example. I asked that question before a bunch of publishers started saying to other media outlets that they were going to stop letting Google index their sites. That's the last turn. When they are so clear that it's not worth it for their content to be stolen by AI because they're getting no search traffic, that they just turn off the Google indexer, the Google crawler entirely. And I think that conversation would have been different if I had had that in my back pocket.

27:32Right. I'm looking at these reports from various big publishers like USA Today and People, Inc., and they're all the way at we're going to stop letting you index our sites because the traffic isn't coming. I don't know what he would have said. I just think that answer might have been different or that the tenor of that moment might have been different. What I have been taking from Sundar these past five years, and which I agree with, is the sense that these publishers got addicted to Google and they didn't do anything about it. Right. The shape of that conversation or his frustration, if you ever sense the flash of frustration that I sometimes sense, is, well, the web is really big.

28:12I can measure that. Google can measure the web. Right. They have Chrome. They have all this data about the web. And the web is getting bigger. And some parts of the web are really, really vibrant. And if you listen to, I don't know, Amy Lanzi, the CEO of Digitas, when she was on Decoder, she's like, we're getting more calls from our clients, more requests to make web pages and landing pages than ever before. So some part of the web is growing. And Google has that data. And I think Sundar is like, and these publishers are constantly complaining that I'm taking their business away. And they did nothing else about it.

28:44which if you know, there's every time I talk to a publisher, I ask them, why didn't you do anything about it? I agree with that. And I think there's some sense that Google bears the responsibility for making the people who built a business on their platforms successful. I think every platform eventually kills every business that's built on it. I think YouTube will eventually kill YouTubers. I think Instagram will eventually kill Instagram. Like if you're a Decoder listener, you know, I think this, I'm always asking creators what they're going to do about platforms and platforms when they're going to kill creators.

29:13And the web is just a platform for Google. So do I think that Google is getting away with not being held accountable? Sure, a little bit. But the mechanism of accountability is not letting Google index your site. And I'm very curious to see if these handful of publishers who have started making noise that they're going to de-index their sites actually go through with it and actually impose the leverage on Google that I feel like the company has kind of been daring them to impose. Again, I don't want to preview the Cloudflare conversation too much. There are other mechanisms and there's other ways of doing it.

29:49And that was part of that conversation as well. But there's something here where just the straightforward, you were sending us traffic for free and we were giving you content for free. That exchange is gone. And I don't know that you can provide accountability such that Google doesn't just have to still compete with Anthropic and OpenAI. They have to. Hey, speaking of publishers and web traffic and all that, do you need to drop in a very nice little disclaimer about our new company, the PMX, PMC situation? Oh, this is so complicated. So through a series of what only can be described as divorces and remarriages, our Vox Media has split itself in two, and The Verge is now part of something called PMX Global, which is a subsidiary of PMC, which is a Penske media corporation.

30:37PMC is suing Google, I believe, over AI overviews and traffic. PMX and the thing formerly known as Vox Media are all in ad tech antitrust cases against Google. I'm telling you this because it is a disclosure we should make. You can tell how much I know about them. They're happening very far away from this newsroom, but it is true that our companies are involved in active litigation with Google about all this stuff. Pivoting to something different, we had a listener talk about how our AI skepticism, or broadly on Decoder, is Western-centric, and it's pointing out how a lot of AI adoption in China is actually different and faster and more welcomed in other ways.

31:22This is from Alex Wong. Have you considered Asia, and more specifically China, whereby outward appearances, AI rollout, adoption, and image seem to be faster, deeper, broader, and more well-received than in the West? Do you find this to be true? If so, what is the difference? And if so, why the difference? And if not, what are we not seeing? What are your Asian sources seeing and saying? Should you have more Asian sources? Is it time for Dakota and The Verge to expand beyond Silicon Valley? This is a US-based show. Neelai is based out of New York. The production team is scattered, but we have New York offices where people come and shoot stuff.

31:58Do you think there's room for more non-Western perspectives? Can you speak about the differences that are evident between the way China is kind of approaching AI development versus in the United States? And can we really cover such a massive transcontinental gap like that? It's a lot. Well, I do want to point out, as you said, we're in New York. I actually think we need more Silicon Valley perspectives. I think we can be myopic. New York is all about money. You know, to be successful in New York, you got to be like, where's literally the money? In San Francisco, less so about the money, more about the big ideas.

32:36And notably, the AI companies are not making money and running into some harsh realities here in New York from time to time. So there's that. I'm not going to speculate too much on my understanding of Chinese culture. I will just offer two guesses, and they are just pure guesses.

32:54One, we can only know what the Chinese state media wants us to know, right? There are speech controls in that country. And so whether or not there is massive discontent is not something that would ever come to me. And so that's just a gap. And I'm just cognizant of the gap. I agree that what we're seeing there is a bit more excitement. We're seeing a bit more investment. And I would connect that to, and this is my second guess, is there is literally a much stronger social safety net in China. And so the idea that this will be a threat, like an existential threat to your job or your career or your livelihood or your health insurance or whatever it is, is maybe ameliorated by that stronger social cohesion.

33:34That is a guess. I really hesitate to overthink that. I would love to hear from people with closer perspectives to that. But those are the things that I'm always thinking about. And I have said to leaders of big AI labs in this country, I think people would like you more if you would just pay for health insurance. If you could just find a way to support Medicare for all with your excess profits and your trillion-dollar TAMs, like maybe people would shut up. And they've all been like, interesting. And I would just offer that connection because maybe the best thing AI could do for everyone is make it easier to go start a business, right?

34:13To make it easier to have agency over your own life. And the number one reason my friends with children don't start businesses is because they need health insurance. And so that's the connection. Again, that's a very Western perspective, a very U.S.-centric perspective specifically. But that's why I went directly to social safety net, right? Maybe you're more excited about this thing that lets you do more things because the risk is limited in some other ways by the very nature of the country we live in. I'm open to feedback on that. That is, I'm responding to the question with my series of guesses and assumptions.

34:46I agree. We do now work for a much bigger company. And hopefully that means I can put some reporters in China or in the region and we can get some firsthand reporting. But I'm curious for feedback from the audience because those two things. One, it's hard to tell what people actually feel, given the speech controls that exist in that country. And two, is it just a different sense of possibility because the risks of existing are different? Do you think Sam Altman actually supports universal basic income? Is OpenAI going to fund UBI? I don't know the answer to that question anymore. I think they've all learned to stop issuing pronouncements about the future of society as loudly as they had been and spend way more time focused on enterprise adoption and software engineering and like agentic marketing solutions and potentially like here's how everyone will become rich, not here's how everyone will lose their job.

35:41And so I don't know the answer to that, but you know, UBI is one of those things that it's an idea you have because you think no one will have a job. And I think they've all needed to stop talking about that. Yeah, that actually ties very neatly into something we wanted to end on this particular segment on, which is a pretty prescient email from a reader, Tom's Bernards Callahan, specifically around tech backlash. So he wrote in, the algorithmic fragmentation of content consumption disrupts any organic large-scale organization. Yes, there are rallies, but no pointed policy pushes. Feeds are purposely placing users into niche consumer groups, and the news has a hard time permeating across these groups.

36:24He says he thinks the irony here is that algorithmic fragmentation will make the backlash worse, because when the dam breaks, the masses will be quite angry, and it'll be a large cohort of people. So he wrote us that email in April, and I do want to say it feels like something has definitely happened. It feels like something definitely broke over the last three to four months since we got that email from him. It feels like there is a large bipartisan cohort of angry people. And we see this, of course, like Florida and Texas banning flat cameras, the upcoming Florida governor's race being about data centers.

36:58What do you make of this, Neelai, and specifically kind of this moment of tech backlash that we're experiencing and how The Verge might cover this from the perspective of algorithmic fragmentation or the perspective of, you know, this creating a bipartisan coalition that could kind of permeate through your filter bubble or the feeds that your algorithmic feeds. The thing that really strikes me about the backlash right now is it's a backlash to imposition. And not to speak for all Americans, Americans don't like being told what to do. And you have to accept these data centers, even though you're telling your local governments you don't want them, is an imposition that is just easy to be opposed to, regardless of your political alignment.

37:42These cameras are going to watch everybody all the time. And we have records that cops are watching kids in gymnastics centers is the most incredible imposition of all time. Like the nation was founded to rebel against this kind of imposition. It's in the Bill of Rights. Of course, that's going to overcome algorithmic feeds. You can't you can't turn the knobs on TikTok enough to overcome that. Right. Like no one can hear a fake AI influencer talking about it. how much they love flock cameras and believe it's true. It's just not in our national character in a very specific way. So that's that. It's like you telling everybody what's going to happen to them and it's power being imposed on them or, in the case of data centers, being made more expensive for them.

38:28It's natural that that would overcome some algorithmic fragmentation. The other issue is I don't know, right? It's an election year. I think we see politicians scrambling to still play culture war games. I'll call it Ben Jordan. who's a musician and a researcher who's done really incredible work on flat cameras. We've interviewed him in The Verge before. He was just on the Tucker Carlson show. Their views do not align. I think Ben even was like, I can't believe I'm here. And they were there to talk about flat cameras and surveillance. That's bananas, like just purely bananas. And there's something about that that I would just connect to, at least with other big tech impositions.

39:08it felt like market driven in some way. Like Facebook is going to be big and you're going to be mad that Mark Zuckerberg is listening to you, but you have a desire to use Instagram. And boy, does it turn out that people's revealed preferences are for Instagram to keep happening, regardless of whether or not you think the ads are listening to you, right? And there's no market preference that's going to take away that away from you, or there's a network effect so strong that something else will happen and then we'll try to regulate it. The market is still going to speak. Like people are still going to want to use this thing.

39:37That's not true of flock. There's no consumer use for flock. It's diffuse. It's you have to prove that crime went down somewhere else later. But you can see it right now. It's watching you right now. And the cost is available. AI has mostly been imposed on consumers. Every time I open Google Meet, it insistently tells me Gemini is here now. And I'm like, I don't need this to be here in any way, shape or form. And so that imposition where we're claiming all the issues that satchel are so high, when in many cases it has just been put in front of us, there's something about that that feels like it can transcend the algorithm.

40:13Yeah, there's something to what you were saying a few minutes ago about the Patriot Act of it all, of there's such a lack of legislation on a lot of these important things that people feel like they've had no input on. And so because they're just rolled out and it's like, well, take it. I feel like that, to your point of like these people who you wouldn't expect to go be a guest on the Tucker Carlson program, it is this scrambling of an alignment because people don't feel that agency that they can't really – nobody is representing them on their behalf in a lot of ways. I mean like what – it's an election year.

40:47What are you going to do with the fact that Donald Trump is running around saying that data centers are money printing factories and you're stupid for opposing them? Like that is just as – You call it the golden goose. That's the golden goose. Does everybody want to be poor? That's what he said the other day. Yeah, I certainly cannot predict elections and how they'll go, but that just seems totally out of step with everybody. And there's something about that that I find utterly fascinating. And to me, it just comes back to Americans don't like being told what to do. And if you put yourself in that position, boy, do a lot of things sort of fall into place.

41:26Nilay Patel:support for the show comes from rippling imagine you just found out your sales team is at risk of missing quota no need to panic just ask rippling ai since it's built on your real-time people business data rippling ai can pull metrics from rippling and salesforce into a meeting ready dashboard showing quota attainment, headcount trajectory, and monthly revenue to quota by region. In seconds, you can see exactly what's behind your quota risk and fix it before it's missed. Question answered, action taken, crisis averted. So when you have critical business questions that need answers, don't just file a ticket and wait weeks for an outdated report.

42:05Nilay Patel:Describe what you need and have Rippling AI build it instantly from your live people and business data, whether it's a dashboard with detailed charts or automated workflows with the right triggers, conditions, and approvals. Ready to rule your business? Head to rippling.ai slash decoder to get the only AI built to give you full visibility and take complex actions across your entire organization. That's r-i-p-p-l-i-n-g dot ai slash decoder. Sign up for exclusive access today.

42:41Nilay Patel:Support for the show comes from Upwork. Every business owner hits a point where they realize they need outside expertise. But another full-time hire isn't always the answer. That's where Upwork comes in. It's where growing businesses find highly skilled freelance specialists, not just for one-off tasks, but to build an entire team at a fraction of the cost and without the commitment of permanent headcount. You can browse profiles, review past work, and get help scoping the role so you can hire with confidence and get started quickly. Upwork also has Business Plus, which lets you access the top 1 % of talent on Upwork.

43:17Nilay Patel:With AI-powered shortlisting, you can get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. And when it comes to things like contracts and payments, Upwork can help there too. Plus, it's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork dot com. Support for the show comes from Shopify. Things don't happen by chance. If you want something, you have to take that first step. And when it comes to starting a business, you can take that step with Shopify.

43:59Nilay Patel:Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, from household names to small businesses just getting started. Their templates and AI tools help you get a stunning site up and running fast. No coding needed. If questions come up, Shopify's built-in AI assistant sidekick is ready to help you build, troubleshoot, and keep moving. The best part is that all Shopify's tools are conveniently located in one easy-to-use platform. And because Shopify handles the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it.

44:33Nilay Patel:If you're ready to hear the sound of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com slash decoder to start your free trial today. That's right. You can start your free trial at Shopify.com slash decoder. That's Shopify.com slash decoder.

44:58well keeping that gadsden flag in the air i've got a uh transition here to your uh your interview with kathy hoeckel who was on the show uh last week as of recording time one listener wrote great interview job very pointed questions little surprised that she didn't seem to have thought through the id verification implications these social media laws will lead to some other Her hokal feedback was pretty negative, predictably. Every single answer she gave can be summarized with, it's a campaign year. This interview was unbearable. Politicians don't give answers to questions. They just give self-aggrandizing stump speeches.

45:31You've said that you are honing your politician interviewing skills. What was your takeaway from this whole experience with her? And how do you think you should inform how Decoder interviews politicians? Do you think we should have more of them coming into the midterms in the 2028 election? How do you see this whole politics of it all? We definitely need to have more politicians on this year. I'm very sorry. But as we have been discussing, the tech policy issues in this election cycle are almost overwhelming. There might not be other issues. There's the war in Iran. There's data centers. And there's surveillance.

46:03Somewhere in there is health care. Those are the ones, at least in my opinion. And as we talked about with Governor Hochul, a lot of them are connected. Surveillance and AI are deeply, deeply connected. Age verification and surveillance are deeply, deeply connected. It's funny. Some of the feedback we got on this episode was Facebook knows so much about you. Why can't it just tell you your age? Surveillance, it's AI, it's age verification. It's all just a remix of the same ideas. How much of your computer should someone be monitoring to allow you to do some things? That's the 3D printer debate in that conversation.

46:41So I suspect we will end up talking to more politicians because the opportunity for realignment is so high. And I honestly hope we get some conservative politicians to talk about data centers and surveillance because I would like to understand the realignment from that perspective. That said, I don't think I'm great at interviewing politicians. I think I'm good at interviewing founders. I'm good at interviewing product CEOs. I'm bad at interviewing McKinsey CEOs. I'm getting better. And I'm worse at interviewing politicians. And you can just, the amount of media training just, it rises, right?

47:14Like that's the thing that I'm describing here. We've always described the show as Neil Iversus Media Training, and I'm always trying to fight to a draw. I think I got to a draw with Governor Hochul. I think we got her to concede that she was out of her depth on some of these issues, particularly around age verification. And I thought the moment where she said, tell Cody we're going to get ahead of him next on 3D guns was very revealing. Because I don't want it's a great spiky cowboy thing to say. It's the quote you want from an interview with a politician. But two, and this is the feedback in the comments on the transcript of that.

47:49That's not even like the right shape of an answer. Right. It's most people can't actually print a 3D gun part that will withstand firing a bullet. Like you don't need to do this. Right. And so I thought that interview went well from my perspective because it just demonstrated it's easy to talk about what tech policy should be. And it's very hard to talk about how you would actually implement the details of that policy. And I think we did a good job there of even illustrating for the governor where the gaps were because she conceded it several times. I understand it's frustrating to listen to. And maybe one day I'll just be full cable news anchor and just repeat the same question 10 times in a row.

48:34but I don't think anybody wants me. But cable news anchors exist, and they do a good job of that thing. I'm trying to do something else here. On the topic of interviewing styles and techniques, Neelai, we had an interesting interview last month with Blue Sky CEO Tony Schneider. One aspect of that interview that really touched a nerve was when you asked him what he thought about Blue Sky's reputation as a liberal bubble. This is what he had to say. Yes, we definitely want that to change. It is already changing. I mean, it certainly wasn't designed to attract one specific group of people. It works for anyone.

49:11We're an open network for anyone. And we don't want to serve just one type of user base. I've seen it already in the last few months, really trend in the right direction, where we just have more and more people show up and build their own corners of the network. and it sort of balances out over time. One listener email, they wrote in to say, the idea that this one specific, very active group of people is an imbalance to be straightened out rather than the very reason the platform is what it is, is the mistake that Blue Sky will come to regret. What a shame. Some of the feedback on Blue Sky itself was predictably harsher.

49:54Somebody said, go ahead and attract other people. But the second we start seeing fascist stuff in our feeds that we haven't subscribed to, you're going to lose your base. Somebody says Tony doesn't even understand Blue Sky's own user base. Another person says, cool, I'll just delete my Blue Sky like I deleted my Twitter. Looking back at this exchange, it does kind of feel like he artfully dodged it. It's kind of hard to tell what he really thinks about Blue Sky's reputation and the liberal politics of it all. In moments like that, Neelai, do you think it's better to push people for a follow-up to be clearer on what they think?

50:26Or is that a case where like the backlash became evident after the fact and it was better that you just kind of let him say his piece and you weren't really, you know, trying to get you weren't really trying to bait him into any one direction? I wasn't trying to bait him into any one direction. And I understand the backlash from the Blue Sky user base. I think maybe I also understand what every social product CEO is struggling with, which is that you have to grow. And you can run out of people. You can run out of people who want to be in that bubble. You can run out of people who only want to talk about one sports team.

51:00You can run out of people who want to be in whatever bubble X has become. We actually are seeing X run out of people who want to be in that bubble. The platform is shrinking. And so if you want to grow, and you can describe that as the capitalistic urge to grow, but I think the platform CEOs also just understand that to remain vibrant, they have to constantly be attracting new people, then you almost have to issue an answer like this which is we're a platform for everyone and then i think tony's riff on it was like and we'll give you the moderation controls to craft the experience you want to make the big platform feel small i don't know if they're successful in communicating that to people i think that the big disconnect with blue sky in my opinion this whole time is that it was started by a bunch of ideological technical people who wanted to build a standard called app protocol to enable interoperable social networking.

51:51And because of X, they accidentally got a user base. And they've been in conflict with that user base ever since, which is fine. And it's obviously reflected in these comments. But I think Tony's job is to make the thing a product. I think that's why he's the CEO. And I think these answers, they just track every other social product answer we've ever gotten. And I don't know if he's okay with the bubble he has drifting away. I know that we can see in the stats that it's getting smaller. I'm sure there's going to be some revolt when they monetize it in ways that he's described monetizing it. But if you're a social product and you aren't growing or trending towards growth, then in fact you are dying.

52:36There's something about that that will not allow you to persist. And that is a pattern that's pretty repeatable and pretty understandable. Maybe because we've spent so much time talking to social platform CEOs, I knew what he was getting at. Like, I've internalized that answer in many different ways. I probably should have made him say it out loud, right? And that's like a good note for me. But that's what I was hearing in that moment is like, you have to grow. And that means you have to appeal to many more people. Well, speaking of appealing to people, we want to appeal to our audience. And so they have some more thoughts on the show, Decoder, in and of itself, not just wanting more rants from you.

53:15We've got feedback from listeners who want to know about the kinds of relationships that you and we have with the companies that are covered on the show. This is from Len Art, who emailed to say, Is there a possibility for you to make an episode about different ways the companies try to pressure the verge into editorial changes? I don't mean you to out all the company names or people making the requests, but just hearing concrete examples of how the requests come in and how they're being dealt with could be a very compelling episode. I think that's what Len thinks. What do you make of that? And do you worry there's such a thing as too much transparency as we make a thing like this?

53:51How do I put this? We are old enough and famously spiky enough that this stuff doesn't happen very often. And so you, yes, there's the idea of too much transparency. My worry about too much transparency is that it would just be boring. Like we would be like Nick and Kate spend hours scheduling. Cause that's actually the hardest part of making the show for us at this point is it's CEOs, it's their comms people. It's whatever news cycle they want to be on. It's my schedule, which is bananas. Like that, honestly, I'm telling you and you can believe Believe it or not, that might be the most complicated thing that we're doing.

54:31We only make so many episodes of this thing a year, and a lot of people want to be on the show. So we're lucky. I think that's very lucky. There is pressure. Big tech CEOs want to be on the show. It's not that we don't ask them. They just are pretty honest sometimes that they think it would be too hostile of an environment. They want to be more in control of that message. You can see where they go instead. Do I want to play that game? I don't. And you can see that we just haven't. So we're pretty direct. But I think if you listen to the conversations we have, the CEOs come on because they're all competitive.

55:04They're all type A. And they like being challenged. They come here for a reason. We get, I think, almost more inbound requests to be on the show than we go out and ask. And, like, meaningful. Not just, like, random cold PR pitches. But, like, stuff we take. Like, pitches we accept. and it is because all of those folks they hear the show they hear their their peers on the show and they they want to beat them and i've asked about this a lot because in the early days like why does anyone come on the show i should understand it so that we can you know craft better and more compelling pitches for all the people we want to uh come talk to us and a lot of the answers i get were because it is journalistically independent the conflict is real And that means not only does the audience listen to it, but our own staff will listen to it.

55:50So if there's some message that some CEO wants to get out, it is more likely that the staff will listen to it. Their employees will listen to it on Decoder than in an all-hands meeting. And I think that is just like the funniest thing in the entire world. But I think it's also true. And I've heard a version of that many, many times. So, yeah, I mean, there's pressure on the verge. but we're just old enough and we are famously spiky about things like being on background and off the record enough that sometimes it comes to our younger reporters because they are testing to see if the younger reporters know and then they the younger reporter is like i'll call the line it goes away um which is fine that's that's my job in this newsroom and then i think a lot of that has been offloaded onto the creator economy so it is not easy to pressure us but it's easy to go to some young creator who doesn't even know that they shouldn't be pressured or is excited about accepting conditions on access.

56:46And I see that left and right all over the place. And I don't mean to call out anyone specific. I just think it is, we play a role in the ecosystem where we are known for not doing that. And I hope, you know, and I talked to young creators who want to come up. We just, Ben Smith was just on the show and he was noting that they're all getting better at making journalism because the conflict is interesting. And I see that ecosystem system developing in parallel, but that's where the pressure has really gone. It has not come to us very directly, or it has stopped as we've gotten much older.

57:38comment section, threads, blue sky, all of it. We really do appreciate it and it helps us make the show better so we can keep covering the stories, the people, and the companies you really care about. Reminder, you can watch full episodes of Decoder on YouTube at at DecoderPod. We also have a TikTok and an Instagram. They're at DecoderPod2 and they're a lot of fun. If you like Decoder, please share it with your friends and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Kate Cox and myself, Nick Statt, and our new supervising producer, Greg Ott.

58:08It's edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. See you next time. Labor Day savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances starting at$399. Plus save up to an extra$1 ,000 and get free delivery on appliance purchases of$998 or more. Get a Whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry first UV clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics. Plus, with great prices at the Home Depot, you can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier. Shop Labor Day savings at the Home Depot today.

58:43Offer valid August 27th through September 16th. USLAC store online for details. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Have you heard that McDonald's spicy chicken McNuggets made with spicy tempura and a blend of aged cayenne are back?

59:24Remember to grab a few extra napkins. for a limited time at participating McDonald's.