Emmi Salonen On Managing Your Creative Inputs

0:00From the Association of Registered Graphic Designers, this is the Design Thinkers podcast. Design Thinkers is Canada's largest graphic design conference. Originally launched to mark the conference's 25th anniversary, the podcast now reaches a global audience of designers and creatives. Join our host and RGG president, Nicola Hamilton, as she connects with Design Thinkers speakers to explore the work and ideas shaping today's design industry. Emmy Salonen is a Finnish graphic designer and art director whose work spans editorial design, visual identity, and exhibition graphics. She often works with cultural and institutional clients, bringing a thoughtful, systems-driven approach to typography and structure, with just enough play to keep things interesting.

0:46Beyond the systems and the structure, Emmy has long been thinking about something deeper, the conditions that allow creative work to be sustainable over time. Her new book, The Creative Wellbeing Handbook, explores creativity not as a lightning strike or a productivity hack, but as an ecosystem, something that needs tending to. In this conversation, we talk about burnout, systems, slowness, education, and what it really means to protect your creative energy in an industry that often demands constant output. We talk about typography, control, joy, and the small signals we ignore when we're pushing a little too hard.

1:23This episode is for anyone who loves design and wants to keep loving it. So I want to start with a new book. Tell us about the Creative Wellbeing Handbook.

1:34Emmi Salonen:It's very exciting. It's my second book, but I would say the first one that's sort of really written. I almost feel like the first book that was published was more like a picture book. It was more of a graphic designer's book showing a lot of images. but this one goes really into the thinking so the whole process was very different for me um like often with books it was brewing for a long time for a good couple of years and I did a lot of research behind it and then I started to do it in the more sort of um constructed way I suppose with I decided the chapters and then started to put my reference notes under those chapters and so on but when it came I'm sorry go on oh I was just going to ask if there was like a very specific point where the book actually sort of began for you like was it a specific question or a frustration or gap that you sort of noticed I think that sort of having spoken about the creative ecosystem the model which is the which the book is based on for a while like giving talks and workshops around it I always felt like oh there's a little bit more I would like to share there's a little bit more I'd like to get through and then people started to ask me for one so it was sort of like I just had to do it I just had to get that out of me and the really practical way to squeeze it was to get my publishing deal so then I had a deadline a hard deadline and then graphic designer always needs a deadline yes so then although I had already done the structure up until that point and a couple of like test layouts and all that sort of stuff but then that's when the hard work really began and I think I wrote sort of I dedicated approximately three days a week over nine months to the book so yeah that's that's how I got it over the line but what I did that I don't advise others to do is that I wrote directly into the layout so I designed the layout and then wrote into it and thought that looks good then then send it to the editor like pulled the text out put it in the word and send it to the editor and we did our back and forth and then I put it back in the layout again so I definitely did a bit of a loop there but that's kind of how I worked it out in my head I couldn't just write it in the word and then yeah I just sort of had to see it well you said you had the structure already so you almost needed to see it within that structure to Yes, yeah.

4:27Emmi Salonen:And yeah, it's quite funny to sort of how much extra work I gave to myself because of it. But then somehow it worked. Sometimes that's the way, which sort of leads into my next question, which is about sort of working through the book. Did you learn anything new about how you work or how your brain works? Like, were you able to make sense of that need to put it into the layout? Well, it was really, it's a very different creative brain than designing for sure. And you sort of, you sew in all the time, like in your own head and in your own world. So I popped out obviously to have like these conversations with people.

5:05Emmi Salonen:There's so many contributions in the book. I think over a hundred people in total. But I really needed like a quiet time. And I found my quiet time first thing in the morning. So I woke up with the sunrise and wrote with the sunrise. And it was always sort of two, three hours in the mornings. And then that became a really nice routine with the birds singing and the sky changing color. Sounds so romantic. Yeah. And you can actually, so I recorded that. So you can download that soundtrack of the birds from the book's website. and that just has to have the soundscape that I was writing to as you reading that's incredible yeah that was um it was challenging because I had a lot of uh sort of doubts about like who am I to write a book like what and then I had moments when I was like I have so much to say I have to write a book um so that creative process that you're so familiar with Nicola of these ups and downs and what your scariest project is all about yeah well the imposter syndrome of doing anything new and even the second time writing a book it you know that's not that many times you've written a book no and and uh yeah I don't I still I'm like I don't really know if I'm a writer but I do have a book out so I suppose I am but it's it's a very um sort of maybe ironic that in the writing process I was really leaning onto the creative ecosystem model to sort of trust the process and help me with the challenges that any creative sort of deep dive will bring to our lives really well maybe for anyone in our audience who isn't familiar with the creative ecosystem do you want to tell us a little bit about that theory that framework that you've built yeah so um very briefly it's basically um the sort of acknowledgement that we often spend so much time and energy on the creative outputs that if we are not as intentional about the sort of nourishing inputs as well that's when our creative well-being can feel a bit of balance so I think there's these sort of core five input areas that will really help us to sustain our creative work so there's connection which will help you give you meaning and purpose wonder which will give you inspiration pause that will sort of help you to connect with your intuition and movement that will give you resilience and then finally joy that will sort of give you that energy and I tie that to the creative process so from briefing to research to ideation development and then creation I use that design thinking to sort of really deep dive into these five input areas and I think it will help and benefit all of us and it really isn't like a to-do list I'm not asking people to do more but it's about and sort of using the resources that you already have within you and around you and maybe looking at the world a bit like you do with design so you don't we don't sort of go out there to look for new tools all the time we just look at the familiar and maybe looking at it a bit of sideways or just looking at it with a different different eye and I think that's the same method to to keep the motivation and energy going so that's what the book is about yeah yeah I mean you've you've sort of talked about it talked about the book as a tool not for fixing creativity in any kind of way but about actually tending to it which I think is so beautiful and important yes yeah because I think we all have it we all carry it so and also different things work for us each but I'm hoping this book have sort of brought together a lot of the thoughts from people across all kinds of creative fields and also helped to know how similar we are in many ways.

9:41Yeah, you said with over 100 contributions is wild. That's so many people to sort of reach out to, to gather intel from, to talk to about it. And, you know, I think it was such a fun read to sort of all of a sudden encounter a friend or somebody from the community that I know and sort of see their take on it was so wonderful. But what was it for you? What was the reason for sort of wanting to bring community into this project?

10:13Emmi Salonen:It actually went right to the beginning. So the reason why I even sort of developed this whole method is that I had really got a bad burnout a good few years ago to a point that I had to just stop working. and it came about because I really noticed not just was I physically unwell but I felt like I'm not a creative anymore I don't have ideas anymore but that was so scary it was so scary so I took a sabbatical and went traveling to some really amazing places but I chose those places because making is a really big part of their community so places like Marquise's Island in French Polynesia or Ethiopia for example and I wanted to speak to people who have sort of often learned their craft from their parents and like who have learned from their grandparents like how do you sustain this how do you keep going what are your challenges so it was really a community minded project from the beginning and I wanted the book to carry that same thing and I I really want it to help you, the reader.

11:29Emmi Salonen:So therefore, a lot of it is about exercises. So you can really customize it and really make it yours and really consider and think about the topics raised and how that sort of takes shape in your life. Yeah. And I think there are moments where the sort of addition of other voices helps keep it away from you sort of telling somebody how to do something, right? it like offers up another perspective yeah that's true as well yeah sort of the book is full of these pauses or these exercises these notes from other people these experiences from other folks these sort of moments of softness like there are lots of moments of softness and when I was reading it and sort of thinking about you I was so curious to know if there were things that you sort of ended up having to cut because they felt too vulnerable or too revealing like how did you sort of manage that balance of like your own personal experience and what what you sort of want to give out to the world to somebody else that is such a great question I think I wanted it to be a really honest like journey from my my point of view um and I I suppose I sort of initially maybe felt like maybe I should talk about the work more and like what I've done but that actually wasn't that important so we spend a lot of time talking about the work yes so yeah I didn't maybe there's something I hint at things in the book like my family going through a really really difficult year for example but not sort of explaining any further than that and the reason why I mentioned it was is because I find it fascinating how we can have this duality in life like go through some really challenging times yet have incredible moments of joy and happiness at the same time like experience something beautiful but have a heartache and yeah and it's sort of sharing in that context instead of sharing it just for the sake of sharing I suppose well even the sort of conversation around you know going through the creative process is like an inherently vulnerable thing to do every single time we do it we have to sort of like you put yourself into it no matter what like there's no way to avoid sort of putting your emotion into it and to sort of remind ourselves that life is happening at the same time as we're sort of constantly being asked to put ourselves in that vulnerable position yeah we are and I I think maybe the hardest page actually to write was in the pause chapter and I I wanted to acknowledge that when you pause like unexpected things can come to surface and if you haven't dealt with like trauma in your life or some things that it can be quite scary and at this point I encourage you to talk to someone about it so then the how I framed that I wanted it to be really thought through because um well professional help isn't the only way to deal with it and not everyone can access professional help and um I sort of asked a lot of advice and opinion on that one like how how how does this sound to you and sort of does does something ring a bit weird or off or and but but I think it's important to note that with silence and solitude which is something I encourage all of us sort of try and have in our lives in one way or another even if it's just five minutes in the morning without the phone um that is when the then the tricky things start to pop up as well so yeah that that wasn't an that wasn't an easy right because it's sort of keeping the balance of the overall tone of the book which is actually sort of quite light and fun in places as well um so that I wouldn't have like one spread where it's just doom but that's the duality of it right like that is the like there are there could be parts of our lives that feel a bit doomed and parts of our lives that are really sparkly and joyful at the same time yeah yeah so I think I I balanced it with having like a sensory sort of exercise in in in that one but then I think it's maybe the page before or after I'm like draw your monster and let's laugh at it so so there's a playfulness in it as well yeah I want to zoom out for a second and ask you sort of like how you first realized that graphic design was like something you could actually study or practice like sort of how did you get here in the beginning oh gosh I know it feels important to the context of this framework like what drew you into this field in the first place wow what a chump that's a good question i yeah i obey

17:01Emmi Salonen:yes yeah i actually i well i didn't like many i didn't realize that it is a profession that exists uh i'm from finland and i grew up there and i moved to london uk when i just turned 19 just to sort of improve my English and they have this course called Foundation for Art and Design which you do before you go to university and the whole idea of it is that the UK government realized a lot of people who go in the arts they drop in the first year of university because they realize that yes they're creative but they chose the wrong part and then they start something else so I thought I wanted to be a photographer and then I did this foundation course and discovered graphic design and I was like oh wow oh this is like what I you know saw all those flyers from all the music concerts I went to and this is how you like make something look and feel from a certain place or certain sort of um identity and and that was just mind-blowing it just really inspired me I was like this is it this is my thing and yeah I've been stuck with it since I feel like you also sort of have one foot in the the visual side but another foot in the sort of thinking side of design does that feel true to you yeah and I think that very much comes from the UK education they very much encourage you in the creative thinking which is a very powerful tool and they definitely lead to it thinking over sort of maybe even some practical steps they sort of rely on the industry to to help you with that so yes it's it's sort of always been there in in what I do and also I've always cared for certain issues so I suppose I've always looked at design as a as a way to help or as a way to be part of a solution if that makes sense so that that's there's a lot of thinking in that or purpose and meaning in that yeah and then I think also the sort of like way we make sense of the purpose or meaning of our work like it's impossible to do in the moment you do it sort of looking back on it so I'm always curious if there's through lines you see now from your sort of earliest work to the kind of work you're doing today yes uh the nature so having grown up in sort of surrounded by forests living in the in the forest in the archipelago forest and then always being very tight to sort of the importance of it or how it's sort of equal to us or even bigger I suppose so I always sort of designed with I suppose it was more like called more like Korean design or environmental design back when I studied and then now it says sustainability yes but it's that it's it's that care and that thinking and that sort of nature belongs to everyone and there's so many lessons from that and that's the whole like word of ecosystem is based on the inspiration that I drew again from the Finnish forest spending so much time there on my asopathic bottle and just three I feel like you can draw a line from sort of nature and being in the forest to this idea of solitude that's so important to you and the ecosystem too you know yes yeah absolutely yeah definitely um I think we sort of forget to we forget to connect um with ourselves sometimes because the world around us is so busy so um I really encourage you to find that moment of solitude whether it's just um I schedule in any days like every two months or so where yeah I just spend a day doing things that I've been wanting to do and it doesn't need to be sort of typically artistic in that I'll take myself to a gallery which it can be but it could just be sort of finally getting my watercolors out because I haven't used them for so long and I'm doing that thing but I think there's a lot that sort of a lot of good that comes from that and tending tending to that inner artist Absolutely.

21:59It's so important that sort of tending to your creative self. Are there any other sort of through threads, things that sort of connect the work you're doing today to the stuff that you were doing in the early days, even if you didn't have the sort of language or knowledge then to know how they would evolve?

22:14Emmi Salonen:Yeah, I think making and craft. So I was always making with my mum, like paper things and making. And then even now, like for me, it was really important that the book has a tactile feel. So I have this texture on the cover. and the fact that you can write in it, the fact that it is a workbook, I think it's also part of that fascination of sort of stationary and making and customising things. So that's definitely there. Yeah, I think those have sort of carried me through even to the age of AI. yes the making part will continue to be important yeah I feel like the these things these two threads you're talking about are probably tied and I'm not going to put words in your mouth but probably tied to this idea of burnout and you've spoken pretty openly about burnout not as like a dramatic collapse but as like more of a sort of quiet erosion yeah yeah and I'm curious like if there was like a first sort of small signal to burnout that you ignored like now in hindsight can you see sort of a moment where you're like I should have listened to that more closely I think when like initially I thought if I'll just cut the you know I just won't go to see that friend tonight or I just skipped that exercise class but then when it became to like I'm actually doing anything and I'm still tired um when it started to tilt over the sort of I'm doing so much less um of the things that actually bring me energy and balance that that was a huge warning sign what were you doing in their place were you just just more work or were you just just nothing just staring at the wall nothing nothing I was like sleeping I was I suppose yeah um maybe yes a bit more work but mostly I was trying I was just exhausted I was really exhausted so I thought if I'll just have a night in have like an early dinner and go to sleep but then I wanted to redo that the next day and the next day and the next day and I never quite like caught up with the energy level that I was sort of chasing um so now I sort of realize how important that is like regardless of how busy you are I need to find those moments to like have the phone call with a friend and go out for that dinner and do my yoga and pull out the watercolors yeah exactly it's tricky especially when it's really really busy but I sort of yeah I have to like stop myself and remind myself like what's what's really important in the long run that I can keep keep going and do the thing that I actually really love doing how much of that sort of like lead up to the to that experience of burnout which I know for you was like pretty formative.

25:35It was sort of a big part of the work you're doing now. How much of it feels like something that was sort of self-imposed in some way or sort of put on you by the industry or the sort of system? This podcast is made possible with the support of the Association of Registered Graphic Designers. The RGD is Canada's largest professional association for graphic designers. The association's membership of more than 4 ,000 people includes firm owners, freelancers, managers, in-house designers, educators, and students. If you've been wanting to be a part of a design community, the RGD offers many opportunities for learning and connection.

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26:46Emmi Salonen:That's a very good question. I think it's maybe a bit of both. It's definitely the speed of things didn't help. So the sort of constant requirement to deliver, and I imagine it's even felt more intensely now with AI actually making things faster, but not necessarily more clear. It's true, do more, but... Yeah. Maybe not with sort of clarity, yeah. but um yeah I think that there's sort of that and I actually I read a study where they were talking um I need to give you the link later I think it was a Dropbox study where they said that burnout shows up more as sort of apathy now rather than this sort of absolute exhaustion but you just sort of sit there and stare at your screen and you just can't like just can't deliver and email comes in and your stomach like drops and so it's sort of like less traumatic but just equally severe in in many ways just more quiet in how it shows um and just yeah kind of stops you on your tracks and you just can't get things done even though you sort of know you need to but it's funny it it sort of felt like the the industry sort of acknowledged burnout for a couple of years there sort of acknowledged how the pace of things was affecting the way that we sort of made creative work and now as we sort of lean into this this space of AI I'm I'm not I'm not sure if we still acknowledge it in the same way or if we're sort of slipping back into all of those same old habits do you think about that at all yeah I do and I also think how it's changing how we work so I hear people getting sort of AI feedback on their work so clients are sending sending feedback that's actually AI feedback and then I think the way how we can tackle these is in those early conversations with clients when you put down your sort of ways of working and and rules, I suppose.

29:10Emmi Salonen:It's where we need to say, well, I need human feedback. Like I need your opinion on this and sort of not forget that that's what, those are the tools that the clients are using potentially. So how can we sort of safeguard ourselves and our creativity and our creative work from the get go? The idea of AI feedback, a client delivering AI feedback is terrifying to me, because ultimately, we're still designing for people. So you do need that personal feedback on the other side. yeah and it kind of reminds me of like when I work with bigger organizations and in the beginning it's potentially a little bit unclear like who do I actually report to or who who is the decision maker so I think it's a similar thing it's sort of I approach it in a similar way like okay who is the decision maker like can we have that conversation and I want you to name that person and I need it to be that person, not AI, and not sort of five people in the team and so on.

30:22Emmi Salonen:So I try and build it in sort of as, well, maybe softly, maybe softly, rather than just saying, no AI. Just saying like, okay, you know, this is just how I work and can we create it now and then sort of go from there? Well, and I think so much of the sort of AI conversation is about transparency around it, right? Like if you're going to give me AI feedback, at least tell me that it's AI feedback so I know that I'm addressing the robots and not the real person. Yeah, and then, yeah, like who doesn't light red, for example, like is it the AI or is it the client? Well, because we always have to figure that out in a room when we're not sure who the stakeholder is too, right?

31:10Like, okay, whose piece of feedback is this? Because it's a subjective piece of feedback and I need to understand how seriously to take it.

31:17Emmi Salonen:Yes, the changing world, we definitely have changing challenges. But I try and sort of use the knowledge that I've gathered over the years of how it is to work with people, which is what I enjoy. And then keep that really human conversation going across.

31:41Emmi Salonen:and it's also sometimes you just have to filter who you work with which isn't easy when you have requirements to make an income but yeah those early conversations are very important I want to talk more about sort of your work I think that your work is often described by others as being sort of calm in some way and I think you've talked about the sort of book in that way as well but I think that that calmness can sometimes be like a form of control too in some way and so I get the sense that you might be like a big design systems person I sort of came into this thinking this about you and then you talked about your routine for writing the book and I'm very convinced that you are a design systems person oh yes I definitely am I love a good system It's no surprise that the biggest challenge in my life, my solution for it was a firm system that I now want everyone else to implement.

32:47Yes, absolutely. But I think those systems are so helpful to us. Why are they helpful to you?

32:52Emmi Salonen:I actually feel that it is a lot to do with my culture, having grown up in Finland, which is a very systemic culture in the sense that you it's a very organized culture and society and but that has really helped me as an independent designer because I have my systems in place like for finances and invoicing and contracts and all these things that are required in order for you to have a sustained practice so and and my studio turned 20 years last year so something is working for sure I'm a very pro design systems person myself as an editorial designer that'll surprise no one I like reusing the system over and over but for me having that foundation or that system that's sort of underneath everything is how I keep my imposter syndrome at bay right like having that system in place means I like know where to start and there's some decisions that have already been made here that I can't question because they worked before so they're probably going to work again and that's really what helps me yeah that's great yeah that's really good and I think that's that was the challenge with the book like writing something in this scale for me because like I actually went out and asked some of my colleagues in the friends like so how do you how do you do research like how do you record it like when you like with all these things that I was reading like how do I keep on top of it how do I refer to it how like can I see like what your system is for it because that was a big blocker for me for a long time um like I didn't know how to go from researching and having these ideas to then having a structure for that research to then turn it into chapters and writing and references.

35:02Emmi Salonen:Does that make sense? Will you tell me what that what that secret was? It's a huge secret. It's a word document where so I had I think I mentioned I already had the chapters which are the sort of creative ecosystem input areas and whenever I would come across an article or in the book or somewhere something that would be relevant to one of the chapters I would sort of type that out in the work document under that chapter with all the reference links and names and numbers and so on any study that I would find I would link it there so then I started to have this like a personal library reference library basically on all these themes and I probably used maybe one dent of it in the end or something but it really helped me it helped me so much and then in in addition to that I had all those conversations with various people and I started to number things so that I could cross reference if something would sort of like I could create like a theme or a bucket and then that's how the sort of um pages came so the subtitles came because I realized okay these these there's a there's a lot here or quite a few people talk about this or or I feel really strongly about this yeah yeah so just help make it make sense in your head and on the page yeah yeah and on the page yeah so I think I mean that was the that was the sort of a bit of an unknown I'm not saying this is the way to do it but that's how I unlocked it and then it kind of grew from there really I'm curious if there's ever a rule or part of your system that you just secretly love breaking or like a part of the process where you let yourself like play maybe this doesn't really fully answer your question but I was really surprised how hard the writing was at times and how like I really had to like tell myself like look you're writing about this you're writing about the solution listen to your honoured wife like go for a walk and have a break and yeah take the pause and and like trust it and but and I did it and I really love how it did help it did really help um but it's I don't I think it's you're never gonna not have challenging thoughts and feelings those are always going to be there so it's just sort of how you choose to deal with them really how you choose to think about them and yeah but once I started writing I stopped reading for those nine months because I was so terrified of like that comparison was so strong that I can't read anything at the minute I think the comparison but also probably the like oh no new research to take you in a new direction like that would be my my big challenge yeah that too yeah that too like where you sort of have to fill your brain with a bunch of ideas and then spend the time making sense of all of those ideas as opposed to inputting new ones yeah and how it connects to everything yes exactly no definitely we always have a whack of students or sort of early career designers listening to the podcast and I know you've worked closely with students and educators And I'm curious if there's something bobbing around in your brain that you think students are often sort of overpraised for, something that they get a lot of praise for maybe in their early years of education or in the industry that doesn't serve them as well later.

38:56Emmi Salonen:I don't know if they I don't know if they get enough praise to be honest but I think what I've come across is that this sort of uh feeling of maybe somebody even assessing that oh wait until you actually work wait until you're in the industry like that's when you're going to get stressed and that's not okay because it's a really hard time being a student and I would almost go as far as saying that's the hardest time in your career because you don't know that's the point where you know the least basically and the more you know the easier it gets and the more you sort of trust your you have your systems and your methods over time and then those become your safety net but as a student you're so relying on learning and other people telling you what works and what doesn't before you even had a chance to test those things out for yourself and you want to do really well and you have a whole life ahead of you not knowing if you are going to do well and I think that's no wonder if as a student you feel stressed like be kind to yourself and if anyone's praising you take it in you deserve it I always wish students were sort of encouraged more to like follow their own messy messy process you know like I think sometimes design education can outline like a very specific process for doing something that doesn't work for everyone yeah I fully agree with that I think having gone to university it was a very institutionalized specific way of like learning this is what graphic design is and this is how you do it right and then from there I went straight to Fabrica which is Benetton's research center for young designers in Italy where you had young people from sort of more or less all over the world it was very international working in very different ways having really different definitions of what's good and what's bad and that learning that if it's good for me it's good for me and that's and if it works for the client like that's that's the right way not that you choose that specific typeface or use that specific color palette or there's always it's good to know the rules so you know when you're breaking them but back to those design systems yes but um yeah I think uh that was a really nice it was like a relief it felt like a deep breath to sort of kind of go okay oh yes it's there's freedom in this I think that you've had a career that a lot of designers would call successful but I'm not sure you sort of think about success in like the most conventional terms has your has has your definition of success changed over the years it hasn't it actually hasn't no it hasn't it's deepened but I I spent a lot of time thinking about this as a as a teenager because I felt quite unhappy in my environment.

42:30Emmi Salonen:I was really yearning to move to a big city, to London,

42:37Emmi Salonen:which I did, but I did sort of also know that it's the inner happiness that I was after, not the sort of materials that the city would maybe bring if you work hard, I don't know. and sort of learning or paying attention to what I already have and appreciating what I already have and feeling blessed when good things happen or I gained something has really kept me sort of happy on my feet. And then it sort of shifted a bit with time in that it wasn't so much about being happy in the moment but like how do I want my life to look how do I want this what's my ideal like sort of days what would those look like and I really wanted to have time to create time to do my own projects so then I thought okay practically what's the system how can I make this happen what what is needed financially time-wise from my home from the people around us and then I set to sort of achieve that but it all goes back to that sort of um like inner happiness or being happy with with what you have and um and the fact that I was able to write the book and take that time off work was because I've sort of saved to art it I suppose I save to have the time to do my own thing.

44:21I think that those like sort of, they're professional ambitions, but they're like creative ambitions for you. Like they're personally creative ambitions, if that makes sense. I think that's such an interesting thing to think about as a definition of success, right? Like having enough time to like pull on that thread or to follow that instinct or that idea to make something that's that's for me and not for someone else.

44:47Emmi Salonen:Yeah. And I think I mean, I obviously question it. I think my soft spot is because I worked for myself for so long. I feel like, well, what have I missed? I look at my sort of friends who've worked the similar length of time in agencies with huge kind of support systems and learning tools and methods and courses and away days. And they're like, oh, I don't, I've missed that train. I haven't, I haven't had that same like workplace education. but then I've had a lot of other things and I suppose what has had really what's been really meaningful for me is to get credit for my work when it comes from people who work in these agencies because I feel like okay I got something of value in the eyes of people I really look up to and that's sort of that's a sign of success for me as well if that makes sense it does and I think also as you were speaking I was sort of thinking about you know everything you've gotten to experience running your own business are the things that those folks haven't gotten to experience as they move up a more corporate ladder right yeah it's a it's a lifestyle choice I think it's sort of yeah it is a lifestyle lifestyle choice and yeah it's interesting but I still sort of question it at times but I think we do that I think it's natural I think we'll do that no matter what choices we make exactly yeah exactly before we let you go we're opening the mailbag this is the segment where we ask for questions over Instagram you can follow along at rgdcanada and truly anything goes.

46:44Specific questions, big picture questions, super, super niche questions. Let's see what came in. So our first question submitted by Rebecca is what's a skill that you unexpectedly picked up during your career so far?

47:00Emmi Salonen:I actually didn't realize that people's skills are so important they are really really important and i think at times i'm just gonna say often i think people choose to work with me because they just like to work with me more than like oh emmy is an incredible designer i think it's more like hey emmy is just easy to work with let's work with her and that's that's been really surprising to to realize just to bring it full circle you know we're still designing for and with humans at the end of the day yes yeah okay next question this one submitted by Connor do you have any tips for managing burnout yeah I have a book out for that a whole book yeah go pick up the creative well-being handbook but I think the first thing is I always say be kind to yourself do what you can to improve your situation talk to somebody try and if you're working at a workplace think what could help you if it's hours or the actual sort of physical surroundings or what it might be and with that in mind go and talk to your manager um because different things help different people and if you are able to kind of vocalize what it is that would help you the best then they can really help you the best and then see what you can do in your own space at home in your sort of time away from the workplace to help and support you and just know you're not on your own i think in 2024 70 percent of the creative industry suffered a form of burnout which is crazy so um yeah don't feel like you are on your own yeah i think that's really good advice okay last question submitted by our friend ashley is there anything you're hyper fixated on right now i don't know what to choose i

49:11Emmi Salonen:there are too many things there are too many things this is going to sound so silly but I'm trying to crow my uh color papers collection because I love I love this answer yes so whenever I whenever I go to the shop it doesn't matter if it's like a supermarket or anything I go and check if they're selling any A4 papers of like color papers so I can just like what do you do with them well I like to make collages or now that I'm doing quite a few events around the book and stuff I always make something by hand um for each of the attendees so that they find something on their safe to sort of change the color combinations and that's amazing yeah I just feel like I need more different colored papers in my life at the minute there we go excellent there we go that made me very happy as an answer so uh well thank you emmy thank you so much for for chatting with me and for sharing all your wisdom and knowledge with our design thinkers community thank you so much for inviting me nicola it's been wonderful so nice to see you design thinkers is canada's largest annual graphic design conference find out more by visiting designthinkers.com.

50:31Design Thinkers is produced by the Association of Registered Graphic Designers, also known as the RGD. Through the RGD, Canadian designers exchange ideas, educate and inspire, set professional standards, and build a strong supportive community dedicated to advocating for the value of design. To find out more, visit rgd.ca.