Dame Meera Syal is starry-eyed for our summery fish, fennel and saffron stew

26:25But it's exactly what you were describing. It's not lots of ingredients, but it's ingredients that all work together. You don't mess around with them. It's very quick to do. I love this, Angela. You love this. I love it. Bless you. It's so delicious. So tasty. Yeah. And so light and easy. We're like, so easy. I mean. Yeah. I'm not going to be polite. Yeah. No. We need to eat this. I could not fancy anyone who didn't like food. No. Yeah. But you'd have a problem. No. I think you would, yeah. Or like indifferent, like, hmm. Yeah. No. No. Even the way that somebody eats food, you know. It's like, oh, I can tell how sensual you are by...

27:07Yeah. Mm. Mm. Wow, that is good. And saffron, I've never really cooked with saffron. I feel like I have once because I've bought it. But it works really well with like fish dishes, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And you can have it with meat dishes like the classic one in Italy is the Milanese. You know, you do this lovely saffron risotto. But it's quite a distinct flavour. You need to have it balanced with the dish because otherwise I think it'll be too overpowering. But you just need a little pinch. I use it in biryani. It's good in biryani. Yeah, that would be brilliant. And then how long are we doing the cod in, in the stock?

27:41Between about, depending on thickness of the cod, five to seven minutes. I always overcook my fish and it comes out rubbery and very disappointing. Also remember, fish carries on cooking like a meat does. You know when everyone's saying you're resting your meat because you're allowing all the juices to rest. I did not know that. The fish, because it's still got the heat, it's retaining the heat and it's in a broth. So it will carry on cooking for another sort of 30 seconds or something. So whenever we cook fish in a pan, we always just put a spoon of the cooking oil over it. And then that carries it on cooking for the next sort of 30 seconds, you know.

28:13That is an excellent tip. And then would you only do cod with this, Ange? Could you do this with anything else? I think you need a meaty fish. You could do it with prawns, but I don't think it'd be good. I think a meaty fish, like monkfish, I think something chunky. John Dory would be really good with it. Oh, good old John. You know, that's a good, you know, a nice thick piece. And you could add a little bit of more seasoning, like a bit of chilli into it and really spice it up. I think that would work for it as well. That would be nice. Yeah. That would be very nice. If you want to try this dish at home, all the ingredients are available in your local Waitrose, of course.

28:42Or you can get them online. You can get the recipe online, waitrose.com forward slash dish recipes. There's a wine pairing as well, Ange. Yeah. What is the wine pairing to go with our fish chute? We have a lovely albarino, so a Spanish wine, which is a great pairing because it has all those aniseed floral notes which work well with the fennel and the saffron that we have in this fish chute. And it cuts through the richness of it. Would you like one? No. Too early for me. No, too early. I'm off to see the eclipse after. It might just push me over the edge if I...

29:13I'd love to talk to you about your memoir. Oh, yeah. Vigilante. Yes, yeah. A memoir in it. And it's going to be out next week. We can't recommend it enough. And I love that the spelling is key to what this book is about. It's not Vigilante in your... If you're listening to this, you'll have no idea what we're on about. if you're watching this, you will see. Tell us all about the idea, the concept of the title, Vigilante. Vigilante or Vigilante, if you want to give more of a clue. My daughter came up with that title, which I thought was genius. I suppose the aunties have been a very central part of my life.

29:50When I was a little kid growing up, you know, first generation immigrants born here, the aunties were a huge presence. And they were like, well, we used to call them the Illuminanties, which gives you an idea of their, you know, their power. And you would be policed, watched slash loved by this big group of matriarchs who, and you mentioned your aunties. This is not uncommon. A lot of people grew up like that because this whole bunch of women and they're all entitled to tell you off, cuff you when you're naughty, wipe your nose and tell you how to live your life. And I've had them. And they scared me a bit when I was younger because a lot of their edicts were meant to shut little girls down and frighten little girls.

30:35So the title of the first chapter is Don't Sit With Your Legs Apart because that was said to me all the time when I was a kid because I was a tomboy. But, you know, don't laugh too loudly, don't show off, don't look at boys, don't do that. That's not respectable. I mean, the whole thing about girls carrying the family honour, I'm talking about some of them, not all of them are like that. And they used to frighten me. And what also frightened me is the lack of potential, the unfulfilled potential that I saw in them. So you see these vibrant, amazing women that were really strong, who were leading really little lives, had horrible husbands or doing shit jobs they didn't want to do or were just overwhelmed by being in the country and had so many missed opportunities.

31:20And I think a lot of women of that generation did. So I'd look at them and I'd go, I love you, but I don't want to be you. I don't want to wake up at 50 and feel like my whole life's gone because I didn't break out or I didn't say what I felt or I didn't follow that silly little dream. So in a way, they spurred me on. But then, of course, I became an auntie. And then you have to reassess what that label means. And that's when I began to realise how strong they were, how a lot of the things they said, you know, were from love and fear. Yeah. And that they were actually just trying to look out for me.

31:57And now I think you can be any kind of damn auntie you want to be. It's about you defining what womanhood means to you, keeping the best of your culture and getting rid of the patriarchal, misogynistic rubbish that is nothing to do with culture. And that's the process I had to go through. And that's sort of the spine of the book. And it's also the closeness then of the aunties, isn't it, I think? Because that's, you know, and I think, again, it is, as you say, it's that generation. because I think my mother and her sisters and then my grandmother and her, they would all talk to me as if I was their daughter or I was their granddaughter.

32:31Right. You know, they'd have no qualms about saying exactly those things. I remember, oh, it's my aunt. Are you going to get rheumatism? I'm going, oh, brilliant. What's that about? What have I done there? You're always, your hair's wet. You know, why don't you put clothes on? You're going to catch your day. You know, and they'd always be saying stuff. And you'll think, you're not my mum, but you had to take it anyway. You didn't matter what they said to you. It really resonated with me. And also, I loved the airmail. When you talked about that, that brought a tear to my eye when you talked about how your mum would receive a letter and if the corner was off, it was sad news.

33:00I just thought that was so... Because my mum's always written and I remember the airmails. But I think if I said to a kid in my restaurant now, what's airmail, they wouldn't know what it is. They'd have no idea. Can you imagine? They were so lonely. It was 1960, 61. We don't think about it now. We just pick up the phone and we can talk to anyone anywhere. they didn't have a phone. And even if they had one, they couldn't afford an international call. So the airmail letters were the only thing you had. And of course, if there was some terrible news, somebody you loved died, you wouldn't know about it for two weeks.

33:31But you get the letter and it was a little sign that they'd tear the corner. So you knew before opening it, you were going to read something really sad so you could brace yourself. And I found that so moving. Yeah, I'm glad that resonated with you. We should talk about some of the things that people will have fallen in love with you. over. We need to talk about Goodness Gracious Me. He took out the Kumars as well. In Meet the Kumars, at number 42, you played a grandma, but you were age of 40 when you played a grandma in that show. That was ridiculous. I know, I know, but it was such a good part.

34:04I can't say no to it. I need less makeup now, obviously. A lot less. As if. Well, I got cast basically, in a nutshell, because the character needed a lot of improvisational skills and they did audition much older women you know age appropriate women without ale and they just weren't they couldn't do the improv probably not in the training they had at that time and once i'd seen the part and i thought this is the best part this sort of hand grenade of a granny in the middle of this indian family who is the exact opposite of what people think old women should be provocative mischievous flirty you know internet savvy yeah gets away with flirting with every male guest because you can because you're a granny and I'd be mad to turn this down yeah I mean it was a bit weird that the man I would go on to marry was playing my grandson but yeah there is that but that's acting isn't it that's acting you're in a role yeah I'll move on from that but I mean some incredible guests on that some great guests that we've had on on Dish as well Gordon Ramsay Graham Norton Mel B Helena Bonham Carter the dish of dish Martin Kemp Martin Kemp love Martin Kemp the dish of dish yeah we were locked in the eyes of Martin Kemp and stuff and Donny Osmond my friend Donny Osmond but we heard that it was Queen Elizabeth's favourite show apparently that is brilliant I know this wasn't said to me but it was said to Sanjeev I wonder if we can talk about it now she's no longer with us but apparently yes and she was asked in fact the report no it wasn't Sanjeev it was a reporter who then passed it on to Sanjeev who was interviewing her match and just as a finishing question what are you watching at the moment what's your favourite programme and she said I'd rather like that come on I said I'm 42 that old lady she's very funny I'm obsessed with that and so when I met her next which I did luckily I said I absolutely know why you like her she's an older woman with agency and I think you know a bit about that.

36:14Yes. Yeah, cool. Actually, the shows that really last are the ones that are universal. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it was about a family at the end of the day.

36:25Dame Meera Syal:We've all got them. We've all got embarrassing families, right? And I think that's why that format just worked so well. And we never wanted to embarrass the guests. We were going to be a typical Indian family who, when you get a guest, your guest is God. Yeah, of course. You feed them and you pet them and you praise them. we might ask you to unblock the downstairs loo as well but go with it yeah go with it so the guests couldn't do their usual spiel like you do on other chat shows they were complete that look of shock was real because they never met us before they walked in that door and the other cameras rolling and that was the thrill of it i mean to get a job that is sort of you know you're on screen but you're actually also a theatre performer because you don't know how they're going to response it's just brilliant brilliant to do and it was great for every generation yeah it didn't feel like something your mum watched yeah you could all watch it and that's what was brilliant about it i loved it as a family yeah and we also i mean we've got to mention goodness gracious me we must um i mean when i knew you were coming on it was like my brain was just drawn to the we're going for an english sketch because i was thinking of a dinner and i remember i actually remember watching that with my brother on the telly and like it was both like howling about about like the, I'll have the blandest thing on the menu.

37:39Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. 24 plates of chips. Yeah, exactly. It was so good. I mean, what are your memories of starting out in that? Because it started on Radio 4, right? Yes. Well, gosh, it just, it took so long to get on because people didn't know what the hell it was. To be fair, neither did we, but the concept of Asians being funny was just not on anyone's horizon. Oh no, you're the doctors, you're the shopkeepers. You're not cool and you're not funny. And so when we first approached the BBC to do it, I mean, he says he swears he never says this, and maybe he didn't, but the producer's first words were, erasions funny.

38:17Well, that's in the book, yeah. Erasions funny, yeah. And maybe that was the subtext of what he said. But anyway, and I thought, I don't blame you, because what else have you seen of us on television anywhere? The image of us is just, you know, so stereotyped. And so we didn't know ourselves, but we were all doing comedy in different places around London. There was this huge underground South Asian comedy scene from the first generation like us, but it was just ours. Nobody else had seen it. So we just piled our stuff together. We put on a live show in five days at the Riverside Studios, invited the producer along and he went, oh, I see what you mean.

38:54And to his credit, he said, it's not my culture. I don't know what some of the words mean. Yeah. But I can see that other people do and I can see that some of it is very funny. And to their credit, they never interfered. And going for an English is the sketch that everybody remembers because most people's relationship or meeting of a South Asian person would be in an Indian restaurant, actually, if you didn't have mates who were South Asian. And all it did was turn a mirror and go, we do see you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do see how you behave in the restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do. But then we also took the piss out of ourselves.

39:29And that's why I think it was quite a joyous show why it's still relevant and remembered. Right, I'm going to get dessert. Oh, my God, are we actually going to have dessert? Oh, my God. Oh, thank you. That looks amazing. I'm hoping it's cherry. Oh, my goodness. I'm not sure I'm quite delivered, but let's give it a shake. And it's cherry. How did you know that I love cherries? Did you just psychically pick that up, didn't you? We just knew. It's so beautiful. Oh, my God. It looks so good, Ange. Should we do this meringue? And then we have... Oh, my God. Mirror's cake. Mirror's cake. I mean... If you hate it, don't say it on camera.

40:10I will eat it. And I will like it. Oh, I think it's going to be chewy. Oh, yes.

40:19You happy?

40:24Sorry, I've just got it. Mmm. Mmm. Oh, no!

40:33Oh, my God. Huge fan, so very happy. Oh, there's some sake home now. Wow, that is good. Isn't food great? That is so good, Ange. It's almost like, oh, is there tahini in it? I put tahini in the cream. Oh. Because I'll be honest with you. It's genius. Yes. There were a few little mishaps when I made it this morning. One, I was supposed to have put the tahini through the meringue. I forgot to do that. And then we'd weighed the sugar wrong. Anyway, there was a few little things. And when I first tasted them, I said, these aren't chewy enough. You made a second batch? Well, no. Then Sarah and I had a little, you've got to serve them.

41:13I'm not serving them. You've got to serve them. Anyway. And then I said, you know what we'll do? We'll put them back in the oven for another 30 minutes and we'll try them. So that's how we've worked out how to make them chewy. We just put them in the oven for another 30 minutes. They're delicious. They're almost like caramel-y. Yes, they are. And so that's saying, you know, so now we just have to figure out how to make that into a recipe that works. Do the recipe twice. Yeah, do it twice. Wait, they are so caramel-y. They are. What's the secret to getting a chewed meringue? Is it a long time on a very, very low heat?

41:44I think it's long and low. And I think, and there is a way of, you do, there's tricks you can do. Add a teaspoon of lemon juice, add some corn flour into it. We've all done that where we thought, I've forgotten about it. They've forgotten the meringue. and then that's when it's most chewiness, I think, because you've slightly overcooked it. Because I've seen a recipe where you actually put the oven on high, turn it off, put the meringue in and leave it overnight. And did that work? I've seen that. Ish. Ish. But it was very flat. It was chew, but it was flat. It's flat. That is perfect. Okay. It's delicious.

42:18I love cherries. I'm going to have some of Mira's cake. I'm going to hide. So what have we got? A polenta and lemon. Lemon polenta. I'll take this one. I don't know why I did that. It's quite weird how it... Oh, no. Made a disaster there, guys. Oh, no, I've got my plate in the counter. So sorry. I'm so sorry, disaster. It's fine. Oh, no, this looks good, Mira. This does look good. Does it? It looks really lovely. This is very nervous. I'm not going to look at you. Oh, no, that's so good. It's delicious. Is it really? It really is delicious. Is it really? Oh, my God. I promise you. That's really lovely.

42:49Oh, no, that is really good. Have you put the syrup on top after? Yes. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. You make loads of tiny little holes. You've got to be really slow. It's so lovely and moist. Yeah. That's delicious. That's a cup of tea. Oh, thank you. It would be. No, but it's the perfect tea cake. It is. I like the texture. Good, good, good. Phew, what relief. Wow, guys, you two should open a bakery. You know, that would be my dream job. Why don't you? A bakery slash bookshop. Oh, my friend and I was talking about that. She wants to open a bookshop. A bakery bookshop. and could we have a tarot reader on the side?

43:24Oh, yeah. A palm reader or something. Those three things would be... I think there's something there. I'd be up for that. I do. Maybe I could do tarot. You could do the tarot. You do the cake. Yeah. Ange does meringues. Yeah. Do you do tarot? No.

43:40But learn. Just pretend. One thing we wanted you to do was share some of your big headline achievements. But also, I love the celebrating, like the sort of, the big small stuff too. Yes. So, for example, in 2023, you were made a BAFTA Fellow. Incredible. Yeah. The highest accolade. But you're also excellent at netball. Yes. Love that. Excellent at netball. Yeah. You've been playing since you were 11. I know. How mad is that? Love. I know. You're still playing. Brilliant. I played last night. Oh, I love that. Love that. I know. I love it. Still love it. I mean, I'm slower now. But you're still doing it.

44:15I might be grading down to walking netball in a few years, but I'm still no we're still brilliant on doing that another excellent accolade to your first novel Lenny Tremise so successful it's used in the school curriculum yes it is that's good guys you also have a very impressive collection of sons I do like not children like sons in the sky because I noticed your son necklace before I have loads of loads of sons well psoronic ones that I've collected from all different places I mean they've taken years because each one's got a little story to it, but I'm just a bit obsessed with suns and sunflowers.

44:52I don't know, there's something about the happy openness of them, the fact that they follow the sun. That's what I had my wedding bouquet, just sunflowers. That's why you're buzzing for the eclipse. Yeah, exactly. It's back, it's back, it's back. You have BAFTA nominations for your TV work, also an Olivier Award nomination as well. But more impressively, you said that you were a mermaid in a past life. I think I was. You think you were? I think I... What's led you to thinking this? Because the happiest place for me is in water. It's just, I just make for water whenever I can. It's not holiday for me unless I can swim in the sea.

45:27And I don't know, I just, yeah, I'm half aquatic. Half aquatic. And I quite like the idea of never having to shave my legs again. So it's quite good to be a mermaid. Yeah, great. No, but I'm like that. If the sea's there, I have to get in there. I have to get in there. You have to. What do you think you were in a past life? Because someone messaged me the other day saying, I think you were an ancient Egyptian because they said that the way that I talked about something and they said they specialise in it and they said I think that's actually a hangover from your previous life in ancient Egypt.

45:57Obviously I was like immediate follow. My kind of person. Yeah, so... It was me that said that to you. Mira, a mermaid. Me, some sort of ancient Egyptian. I'd like to think in my previous life I lived in the era of the Great Gatsby. oh yeah because I love throwing parties Negroni I like that idea of dancing I'd have actually smoked then I'd never smoked in my life you can't say like parties in a bag you'd have those long cigarettes didn't they the look of it the really long cigarettes but I've never smoked in my life so I think I would have done that oh maybe that's what you drawing you in then yeah and I like the idea that you're just hanging around and just sitting there having a drink talking to Zelda as you do yeah exchanging witty bands exactly yeah in the roaring 20s that I think would have been a great era yeah you do it in Charleston yeah I'd love it I can see it I can see it also in your impressive list of incredible achievements you worked with Jack Black you've had a number one single oh well it was a it was a comic relief single still still scrap that you've had a number one single and you also make an incredible lemon polenta cake as well yes Misslock that in.

47:14Thank you. Are you ready for your fast food quiz? It's quick fire. Oh, right. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Mira, please tell us your favourite way to eat eggs. Poached. What's your favourite sandwich filling? Oh, mature cheese, salad and pickle. Nice. What's your favourite form of potato? I don't like potato. Don't like potatoes. No potatoes. She's a red person. Oh, I like the skin. The skin. Okay. Crispy skin of a jacket potato. Thank you. Love that. Favourite herb? Oh, no, that's hard.

47:51Coriander. Do you have a favourite kitchen utensil? Yes, my Thermomix. Oh, yes. Oh, nice. Okay. What's your favourite fruit? Blueberry. What's your favourite toast topping? Marmite and butter. Marmite and butter. Nice. What do you think is the best nut? I think walnut. Walnut. Oh, that's very walnut. Favourite ice cream? Mango sorbet. Yeah, oh yeah, mango sorbet is good. What's your favourite childhood dish? I think my mum's pronti, stuffed pronti inside paneer. We want that. We do want that, yeah. We do want that, yeah. Finally, favourite condiment? Chilli peanut sauce. Oh, good one, yeah. It goes with everything.

48:36I put it on toasted sandwiches. and grates. Yeah, I love that. I like that one. That's a good one. Good one. You passed. Did I pass? You did. That was like mastermind. Very much so. It's time for your end of the show question. Right. For your chance to win the Waitrose goodie bag. All you've got to do is answer this question. So see. So see. So see. So see bag. To win the Waitrose goodie bag. A couple of questions. Yeah. Firstly, what is the Dame Mira method for making tea? For making tea? Yeah. Full details on how to make it and what people do wrong, in your opinion. Well, the water's got to be absolutely boiling.

49:23Yorkshire tea only. Let it sit for a bit. Not until the tannin's formed, but let it sit. Don't whip it out already. Then put the milk in and put it in slowly so you get it to the colour you want. and then give the tea bay a little tap with a spoon. Go squeeze it before you remove it. And that should be the right colour. Nice detail. But it's got to be hot and it's like my men, hard and strong.

49:50And secondly, please could you share your recipe for the lemon polenta cake, please? Oh my gosh, off by heart. Oh, I can't remember. I think it's... Lemon polenta. It's lemon polenta and ground almonds and butter and three eggs and the rind of three lemons into the mixture. And then when the cake's warm, take it out, leave it in the tin, prick it all over, very tiny little pinholes, and make it with the juice of the three lemons, make the syrup with icing sugar. Let that cool a bit. And then don't just slop it on because that's what people do wrong. Pour a little bit on gently and with a little pastry brush.

50:33brush it over keep doing it it takes time but if you want the juice to go right to the bottom you've got to do that okay there we go and that has gone right to the bottom it's gone right to the bottom perfect I think the goodie bag is yours yes that was good the goodie bag is yours although that is ours yeah of course absolutely yours and Mira thank you so much thank you so much you were brilliant thank you thank you and a round of applause for Mira everybody Thank you.

51:07She's great. She was amazing. I loved her. I loved her. I want to be her friend. Same. She was so nice to hang out with. Yeah. And I think anyone I've spoken to ever about her who's met her say she's so understated and just a lovely person. Yeah. And I liked her thing that she has all these sons. You know, it's like all around her, you know, all have little stories. I think she's quite... I liked her outlook on it. Yes, yeah. I think, yeah, she was brilliant. Loved her. Loved her. So thank you to Dave Meera Sayal for joining us. Before we say bye, we have a bit of dish business to attend to. Dishness, if you will.

51:45Oh, crikey. That doesn't work. A few comments to address some points of order. Firstly, in the Tom Holland episode, we had a lot of comments on YouTube about the Indian dessert you described, which is like batter piped into hot fat. You couldn't remember the name. Yeah. It was Jalebi. Yes, that's what it is, yes. So lots of people saying... That's what it was. That's what it is, Gilebi. Also from our Tom Holland episode, Bryony from Essex said, I found the conversation about the pronunciation of Lionel Messi. Lionel. Lionel. Lionel. Really funny. And I had to say, as a non-football-y type person, I also pronounced it the same way as Nick, even if it's the wrong way.

52:23Lionel Messi. However, after I finished listening to your episode, I listened to the latest episode of Louis Thru Podcast with Olivia Wilde as the guest. And at the end, they spoke about celebrities with literary namesakes, Olivia having one, and then mentioned how Lionel Messi is actually named after Lionel Richie. So I Googled this and it's true. His mom was a huge fan apparently. So actually, I think the way that we pronounce it is correct, says Bryony. Well, thank you, Bryony. If you do want to get in contact with us at Dish, you can email us, Dish at waitrose.co.uk. and Angela will reply to you personally.

53:02I will. But thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. We will see you next week with Daisy Edgar-Jones. If that episode has left you wanting more, find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Just search Dish. If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com forward slash Dish Recipes for all the ingredients and the recipes. Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to dish at waitrose.co.uk Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production Waitrose, the home of food lovers