Jesse Burgess rates our lemon chicken and sesame chilli oil cucumbers

21:31Or the controversial small plates. But yeah, it's all about sort of like bit of this, bit of that. But conventionally, you go to a restaurant and you have your main dish and quite often you're thinking, oh, but you know, I'd love to try their pizza or this, that dish. Just order it. So if you're in a group, just order your thing and then a couple just table dishes so everyone can just scratch the itch of the menu item that they so desired. Yeah,

21:58Angela:it was like a float to sort of pizza. Floater. It's a try. It's always good at food. Doesn't that float around? Maybe table dishes is a better name. Yeah. Yes, but they're good pints all around there, Jesse. Food is here, Angela. This looks great. We have lemon chicken. Will you fill us in? Will you tell us how you made this for us today? So we have a lemon chicken by Su Ling. And it's really simple. So you're basically seasoning your oil first. You take your spring onions, you cut the white bit of the spring onions and you season your vegetable oil. Once you've sort of let them go slightly crispy, tiny bit brown, remove them from the oil, but keep the oil and discard the spring onion bit.

22:41Angela:And then you have eggs whisked in a plate. Then you have your corn flour mixed with white pepper and salt. They call it velveting. And this is when you basically dip your chicken breasts into the egg mix, then into the corn flour. and it's the corn flour with this egg mix that basically locks in sort of the moisture of the chicken when you cook it and fry it. And then into that oil, you fry your chicken breasts until they're nice and golden brown, cooked in the center, probably about, you know, four to five minutes. And then finish it, you make this lemon sauce and the lemon sauce is unwaxed lemons, cast sugar, clear honey, all into a pan and then add a little bit of cornstarch and that sort of thickens it up and that's your lemon sauce.

23:22Angela:And then finish with the green of the spring onions. And I love the combination of the sesame oil on the cucumber with the lemon sauce as well. They're going well together. Yes, you've done like a cucumber. So then we've got sesame oil, cucumbers, yeah. So that's basically sort your cucumbers, you know, peel the skin, take it, remove all the sort of seeds inside, and then you've got fine salt, rice vinegar, crispy chili, tahini, soy sauce, caster sugar, sesame seeds, and a little bit of coriander at the end. And then you can have some chili on the end as well. It's great. So good. Do you have any tips for this shallow frying?

23:56Angela:I saw you doing it and you, because you are the chef, you were doing it while I was like talking to someone and it was like, look, so I was like, if I was doing that, it would be a hot mess. And you were just like doing it. So we're like, what are your tips for? I mean, you know, I'm always using a spoon. I mean, you must have seen so many chefs in kitchens. Certain people have certain. I always use a spoon to cook. I think in this instance, use tongs properly. So you basically turn your chicken on the side, you know, because you don't want it just crispy on top, crispy on the other. You know, it's thick, so you want it crispy on the side.

24:24Angela:And then hot oil, but not blistering, because if it's blistering, when it goes in, it will start to burn. And just keep turning it. And if you feel it gets a bit brown, change your pan. You know, don't be afraid to then get a fresh oil if you suddenly feel it's not cooked and you want to cook it a bit more. And then what is the sort of tip to making this sort of glossy sauce at home? How to make that sort of glossy Cantonese? You've got your lemon juice, your sugar, and your honey. and then it's when you add the corn flour. It's the corn flour. That's corn flour starch that gives it that sort of glossy.

24:55Angela:And it basically acts as a roux. It thickens it. Right. And we've had it in every Chinese restaurant we've been to, haven't you? You've had it with your pork, your chicken and stuff, but it is corn flour. And you can have that, you see? Exactly. Corn flour. Very gluten-free. It's delicious. There you go. So as a rule, when you have guests on the show on food, do people really eat everything? I thought the Hollywood stars wouldn't really go for it. like Natalie Portman came on. And I thought, Natalie Portman's not going to be chowing down a meal, is she? And she had seconds. She was mad for it.

25:27Angela:If you want to try this dish at home, all the ingredients and the recipe, the how-to, waitrose.com forward slash dish recipes, they are all on there. Angela has recorded a video or will be recording a video of how to do it. It's very tasty. It's really good. And there's also a wine pairing as well. We've got a Sancerre to go with it, Ange. So crispy and Sanchez Sauvignon Blanc. High natural acidity, bright citrus notes. Perfect with this lemon chicken. There you go. Delicious, thank you. Are you a wine drinker, Jesse? Yeah, I do like wine. I do love beer. Yeah. To the point, not that it's a problem.

26:05Right. Like, should I drink less beer? Yeah. Yeah, probably. I like it all. I'm like a human wheelie bin.

26:15Angela:And hey, we should talk about Knife Edge, brand new series of Knife Edge chasing Michelin stars. Season two is coming to Apple TV. First one was a huge success. It was so good, the first one. Tell us all about how you got involved in this, because I know that you two now share a boss in Gordon Ramsay. We do. Are you not sort of free from the throne? Yeah, he's not my boss anymore. Not anymore. I sort of feel like it. Once upon a time. Once upon a time you shared a boss, yes. Yeah, but fill us in. Tell us all about it. I had breakfast with Gordon in the early days of Series 1. And it was all very nice.

26:51It's quite intimidating when Gordon isn't being... You know, when Gordon's just sat there with his arms like this, just looking at you, you go, oh, f***, like, we've really got to deliver here just in this conversation. Where did you go for breakfast? Oh, my God. What's that place that's just off Savile Row? Oh, not Giacone's. Yes. Oh, Giacone's. And he has a particular table. He likes to sit at a particular angle. Yeah. Probably shouldn't be saying that. What angle does he like to sit at? Sort of sideways, I think.

27:23At even 45.

27:28Angela:Yeah. It's making me so well to tell the story. So hold on, you'd already started filming. Not even that good. No, so it was just before kick-off. Right, okay. And he just says, we're having this nice conversation trading stories yada yada yada talking about top jaw and stuff and he just goes you know Jess I really vouch for you to get this so don't f*** up oh and I was like oh yeah you know when you sort of like think someone's joking and then like oh they're not joking he's not joking and then for anyone that's not watched it it's you following chefs sometimes for a long time for like a year isn't it I can't believe that's the story I've told to set you show up um let me watch it You might want to f*** out now, Jess.

28:11Angela:I might be a little extra in the post. He's waddling a bit there. Yeah, it's called Night Veg Chasing Michelin Stars and basically it follows chefs all over the world as they are desperately like working towards winning a Michelin star. And either they're trying to go from zero to one, one to two, two to three, or getting like a biblical mind or something. And yeah, I mean, I got a call because I've just come from social media, never done TV. and I had a call from my manager Lucy Loveridge and she said, listen, there's a show that's been made by Apple TV with Studio Ramsey about Michelin guys and about chefs all over the world trying to get stars.

28:51And I think I said to her, look, I don't think I've got a hope in hell of getting that gig. I did like a bunch of screen tests. I went to Sweden, which seemed unnecessary to take me to Sweden to check if I was like right for this thing. And I don't feel like I get nervous like that much. Like when you're on camera so much, like what's another camera? But I was nervous.

29:11Angela:Maybe because it felt like auditioning. Maybe it's different. And it was so big. After TV, it's huge. I think I'd feel nervous for that, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And then it's quite a fascinating process, what they have to go through, like the Michelin world. Like, run us through what is judged on. So you got the stars, right? And so back in the day, when it first started, the Michelin Guide was started by a tyre company and they wanted people to drive more. But they launched the Guide when there was about 3 ,000 cars on the road in France. so not many and they just wanted to sell every one of those tyres and get them to wear tyres down more so they could sell more and it was all based on the fact that everyone in the summer like now in Paris will all go down to the south of France and it's that I think it's the N68 whatever that road is and you know and there's sorry to interrupt but there's Sophie Pick her family have been in the guide since the beginning and they have every single guide from her grandfather if you ever go to that restaurant they're all in there anyway I digress apologies so one star is worth a stop so you're meant to be driving past and go sure let's pull over two star is exceptional cooking so much so that it's worthy of a detour and three star is the pinnacle of cuisine making you a destination and of course as time's gone on and they became more and more well respected the standard got higher and higher and so one star is a massive deal for you and one star is enough to be a destination restaurant, but they still talk about this, like, but I never knew that.

30:43That's the,

30:44Angela:the, the how it began. First inspector I talked to after I got my first star at the Conor, and I said, well, how do you get, he goes, one star's consistency, so you always have a consistent meal every time you go there. Two star, which, he says, you start to see the chef's identity. So you would, you know, and actually, if you look at people like Heston or Ferran, you know, you see their identity as a, as a chef and their style. and a three-star, he says you could do a blind tasting of those dishes. And know it. And know the chef. You know, like if you hear a track by Pharrell or something, or Timberland, you go, that's probably them.

31:20That's what a three-star dish should be. Like you should taste it and go, well, that's clearly Helena Rose or something. Wow. They judge on five main criteria. They do not care if they drop a fork and someone comes and picks it up within 10 seconds or whatever. And I love all these myths. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because having done this show and spoken to inspectors and the CEO of Michelin, I've asked them all the questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've still got more questions to ask. But it's all about the food on the plate in front of them, which is why places like a taco stand in Mexico City has got to start or a noodle bar in Singapore has got to start.

31:57Or Jiro in the underground in Tokyo. Yeah. Or the omelette place in Thailand. Yeah. it's all to do with personality on the plate the consistency so they won't just inspect you once and go ba-ding star if an inspector comes in they will then say right this needs to be checked people will come in other inspectors come in they need to be unanimous so they'll meet before the ceremony and like a jury if one of them goes I had a terrible time or it wasn't quite lit for me boom that's it oh wow so even if three of them are saying I love this place it's definitely worthy of a star everyone needs to be convinced which is why every single service matters wow so personality on a plate the consistency the harmony of flavors which is kind of an obvious one the mastery of cooking techniques so they can tell oh my god this has taken an unbelievable amount of work or training and then the quality of produce which is again kind of obvious but a one-star restaurant is going to be using really exceptional produce.

33:06And one of my favorite of the Michelin Guide is the bib gourmand. The whole point of the bib gourmand is, I'm going to keep saying bib, because saying bib gourmand sounds a bit arsy. So if you get a bib, it means that you are doing exceptional food at a really reasonable price. And so they have, for each territory, they have like a different budget and you split within. And so I think in the UK, it's like, if you can go have a meal for under 50 quid, you qualify for a bib. And of course, these guys aren't going to be using the same ingredients that like a two or three star restaurant will be. But they'll still be doing really, really good cooking.

33:37So they're really, really fun, those ones.

33:39Angela:And that's why you see on your show or other shows like this where you're seeing those Michelin star chefs at work, like, you know, they're inspecting a potato. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the chef is like looking at it and feeding it. Like not that one. Like they're really taking the details. If you ever see someone come in with truffles, they did it, I think, when we were filming. They came in with a truffle basket. We had truffles come here one time. She has a truffle dealer. Cash in hand. They literally come in with a tea towel. Yeah, exactly. And the chef will smell it. No, but the whole point is, at the end of the day, I mean, I think Ducasse probably said it, if you've got quality ingredients, your job is halved.

34:22Angela:That's the whole point. If you've got a great chicken, you don't need to do much to it because it's going to taste great anyway. You have peaches that are in season or tomatoes that taste really beautiful and sweet and delicious. You know, it's when you're trying to cook a tomato in January and then you think, oh, yeah, I've got it. Well, why cook a tomato in January? And that's what I think is so, you know, it makes sense, yeah. But it's amazing how everyone thinks it's about the plates, the artwork, you know, the atmosphere. I don't think it's anything about it. It's absolutely what's on that plate.

34:51Angela:Yeah. Of course, service does sort of matter because if you get your plate cold or whatever. Yeah, that's a big thing. Or, you know, that does affect things. Yeah. And then the inspectors, tell us about them because they're quite elusive and they live quite a sort of mad spy-like life. They can't tell anyone they're an inspector. No, they're like immediate family, no. But they... It's so mad. It's so nuts. I love that this goes on in this. It seems like a film. Yeah. Which is why I think this whole conversation is really kind of controversial because people go, I don't believe it. They don't do that.

35:24It's all underhand. No, no, no, no, no. they do live life like the CIA which is crazy they're paid well they like employing former lawyers because lawyers are very black and white and they're not necessarily going to be emotionally invested with the chef because if you came to say Angie's restaurant got a really well of Angie and I went I'm going to give her three stars yeah three I love her let's make it four yeah you know they don't want that No one with anyone engaging, no one with this sort of like ulterior motive or agenda. But it's interesting you say that because I've held a star.

36:02Angela:No, no, no. I've held a star since 2002 or 2003. I don't remember. Anyway, a while. And back in the day when they, because maybe less restaurants, you would speak to an inspector. Yeah. They would sometimes give you the cards. They will come back tomorrow day for a chat or something, especially if they had any feedback or something. You don't get any of that now. I think with social media, they would get rumbled. Yeah, and I think, yeah, exactly. They just don't do that. Because, you know, I was talking to someone who said, I said, just write to them. You know, be humble about it. Say, you'd love to be an inspector, blah, blah, blah.

36:34Angela:Ask for some feedback. They may write back, they may not. But, you know, I met quite a few inspectors back in the day. Oh, God, I recognise them when they've come in or you know them. But you're right now. Were they quite stern? Like, were they quite loyal? No, I'll be absolutely honest. There was one time, and it's exactly what just is about consistency. There was one time I wasn't working that day. My head chef rang me at the time. He goes, actually, we had the inspector in. and it wasn't good. And I went, oh, right, brilliant. You know, he goes, he's coming back tomorrow. And I said, okay, I'm around tomorrow.

37:00Angela:So he came back tomorrow. He had another meal again. And I knew him. So I went out and chatted to him. I said, listen, I know. He goes, listen, Angela, you've been with us a long time. This is a little heads up. We had a bad meal yesterday. This has been brilliant. You know, don't screw up, basically. And I think in that sense, they're not stupid. You know, because, you know, they're not going to suddenly just take it away. because they know restaurants are based around human beings. You know, there's so many margins of error. You know, so be fair to someone. You know, but he said, you know, they wouldn't have made me a one star then based on that meal.

37:36Angela:That's because, you know, in the sense he said, because, you know, there were too many mistakes and, you know, the head chef wasn't on it. I said, Jesus, this is a wake up call. You know, for God's sake, you've got to be on everything. It's the most hardcore thing. Like, you know, it never stops and you're working all day and then it's like showtime. and then you've got to manage all these deliveries and bookings and staff and people's emotions. And then when you're leveling up the levels, like the pressure. I also think, based on chefs in London who I know wanted a star and still haven't got one, I think the worst thing you do is over try for it.

38:09Angela:I think cook the food you want to cook. Cook for your restaurant, cook for your customers, you know, and then I think it will come, glory will come. But get whatever you're doing on that plate right and put all that love and attention into doing that. Not think, oh God, I went to Gordon's, that's what they do, so I'm going to do that. Forget that. Just cook the food you really love and then I think it will come. I think the worst mistake you do is try and just copy what other people are doing or you went to Mountain and suddenly you're like, okay, I'm going to do what, you know, and it's like, no, just cook great food.

38:42I know chefs who have done that. They've tried to do what they think Michelin wants and then they just go, oh, you know what? f*** this I give up I'm just going to make yummy food don't care they get stuck literally within and they go oh okay wish I hadn't spent three years doing that crap yeah and also you have

39:01Angela:to run a business you know and I think that and I did have one was it Michelin might be Michelin an inspector come in they said oh have you got too many more tables at Marana I said I'm running a business I can't take away a table of four covers you know how much that's going to cost me in a year you know so you have to run a business And also, people don't want to ever now eat in silent. You know, you two are too young, but I remember restaurants where it was, I like, shh. No, I hate that. It's my worst thing. You know, you want to eat in an atmosphere. I always love, you mentioned mountain. I always love going to mountain because it's so busy and noisy.

39:34Angela:Yeah. And I love that because I always think that was my first experience of going to a restaurant as a kid. Like, we didn't go out to eat all the time, but we'd always go to this Italian in town in Manchester. And the Saturday night, it was packed and noisy. It was just like a family Italian. I was like busy and vibey and I loved it. And I always like that in Mountain because I'm like, we're out. I like that feeling. It's fun that you mentioned Mountain because I think there's a few common misconceptions with Michelin star restaurants. They are like that. They're super stuffy. They're white glove.

40:05It's like being in a jewelry store. And to be honest, today it's not like that. I don't think I've ever been to a restaurant in the last few years that has been that stuffy. They're more just contemporary. and just really good restaurants. And the other misconception, I think, is you mentioned about like taking away a four top. Like I remember talking to Claude Bozzi and he was saying that, you know, he had a two-star restaurant called Bibendum. And he was saying, you know, that this table of four bailed, basically canceled last minute or whatever. He said, what people don't realize is if the whole restaurant's full, including that table, I'll make some money.

40:41If that one table doesn't turn up, I'm not making any money. the margins are so thin on like special fine dining and I think sometimes you feel like when you go to a restaurant you're spending a lot of money it's all very elegant and high end you think like okay the chef's gonna be rich or the restaurant owner is gonna be like driving off to the sunset the Ferrari every day like see ya and it's just and that's just not like the case if you want to be rich do not open a a restaurant a fine dining restaurant yeah

41:13Angela:you can see knife edge on apple tv from the 25th of september season two is out you can watch the first series right now jesse burgess it is time for your fast food quiz i'm gonna go and do my top jaw with you yes um momentarily you do top jaw standing up obviously yeah so we thought maybe we'd do fast food quiz stood up edition. Oh my God. Right? Yeah? Okay. Are you ready, Ant? Do you have my clacks? It's going off. Pew, pew, pew. Jessie, it is time for your fast food quiz. We all got, but if we're doing top job, we're going to stand aside. Is it? Yeah, do you remember? No, you were across the road from me.

41:53Angela:Across the road. Across the road. But you weren't that close. Yes, and always. Were you standing that close? Always, always. Tell us, Jessie, your favourite way to eat eggs. Post. What's your favourite sandwich filling? Coronation chicken. What is the best chocolate bar on the market? Can I say double decker? Yeah, of course you can. Nice. Favourite form of potato? It's got to be chips, hasn't it? That's all right. What is the best crisp? Oh, can I have the Thai chilli rice crackers? Is that crisp? No. I don't know if that's a crisp. No. There's a brand called Saversmiths. Just they're like salted Saversmiths.

42:31Salted chef, John. Or if I'm feeling a bit romantic, the truffle ones. Oh, very nice.

42:35Angela:What's your favourite kitchen utensil? Dishwasher? Is that utensil? That's a good one. We haven't liked that before. That's the best one. I like that one. And what is your favourite beverage, hot or cold? IPA. IPA. Or coffee. Hazy. Hazy or IPA. Hazy. Or coffee. Or coffee. Okay. What's your favourite Sunday roast? As in like chicken, beef, pork? Oh. Chicken's reliable. That's good. Good choice. What's the best pasta? Barbadelle. What's your favourite pizza topping? I'm like... Now you know how we feel. Pizza topping is stracciatella with some spicy sausage. Okay, nice. And finally, dish from your childhood?

43:19My mum's sausage casserole.

43:21Angela:Yes. Lovely. Very nice. Very good. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you. Hello. Hello, standing. Come on, man. Nice. Maybe we should always stand. Okay, Jesse, it is time for your end of the show question for your chance to win the Waitrose goodie bag as brought over by Michelin starred chef Angela Hartner. And for your chance to take home the goodie bag, all you've got to do is answer this question, Jesse. Okay, in fact, Ange, put your glasses on, put your glasses on because there's actually two. So which one do you think we should ask because they're both quite spicy. This one. Jesus. Or this one. Probably that one, I reckon.

44:05Angela:Yeah, I think that one. Okay, that felt evil. But it's fine. It's fine. Jesse, for your chance to win the Waitress Goodie Bag, who do you... Why am I nervous? Well, it's the hardest in question. Do you think anyone on Top Jaw had their answers written by someone else? Do you think they did? Yes. Yes. Who? Yes. Yes. And by the way, not just one. No. Yeah, like a few. And how can you tell? With one particular guest, they were being shouted from... That's a clue. Yeah, that's quite a big clue. Yeah.

44:54Angela:And have you ever disclosed who that person was? Listen, I think it's quite difficult for Idris Elba to go out. You know, yeah, Idris Elba. There were some answers that were very much his, and maybe he had a healthy hand on a few. On a few others, yeah. Yeah, great answers. Yeah. Maybe he's too famous to be out. I'll say it's Idris Elba. Who cares? Who cares? Who cares? He, whatever. His aura is just off the scale. I was like in a dark room and he then walked in and I was like he's all dressed in black you are just all cool I told you that he came to Merchant's Tavern once when Neil and I were cooking there and I was like oh my god and he came up to the pass to talk to me and Neil because he'd been booked in by Coiny John Coiny and he goes John Coiny came to sort of say hello to you told me to come and say hello and I just was like and Neil was like hello I'm her boyfriend I said Neil I love you but this is Idris Elba no no it's Neil it is like chef like I'm her boyfriend in this Scottish accent I'm her boyfriend what was the other question the other one do you want that one I'm intrigued the worst Michelin course you've ever eaten oh my goodness you don't have to answer but we've liked it I know but that was quite a fun question yeah quite fun have you ever had one where you were like hmm don't know about this yeah yeah yeah I've had a few I've had one Oh, let's all say it.

46:24Angela:It was a slow-cooked egg, which I hate anyway. I like an egg to just be cooked. I don't like this 24-hour egg. And it had this foam on top with this spice, like curry spice foam on top. And I just thought, I can't believe they sent this out. It was an extra course for me. It was too much. I had any curried egg. I had this dish, and it was a steak dish. and the chef had said, I am such a good sautier. And I'm always like, I don't like that you're telling me you're such a good sautier. That's now the expectation. Well, and just also like, why would you be saying you're such a great sautier? A great sautier, would not say he's a great sautier.

47:07And this sauce was just, and hey, we know I love Marmite. Marmite, honey on toast, perfect. The sauce was Marmite. Wow. He had made like this really yeasty, thick, really reduced, yeah. so reduced that it was not even sourcing and he just pasted it all on and just ruined this beautiful bit of beef. And also, Mammate,

47:29Angela:you want a little smushy bit. You don't need a full portion. Also, you'd never cook a steak and go, Mammate. Never. Never. Never. No. Well, thank you for sharing. That's okay. So this is mine. The goody bag is yours, Jesse. Half-bought, Jesse. Honest Honest And Jesse thank you for coming Thank you very much Thanks for having us I mean the guests you have on the show are incredible so it feels very imposter syndrome No Thank you very much Pleasure It's wonderful Thank you for the food A round of applause Jesse Burgess everybody You can see the new series Thank you guys Thank you Jesse Thank you If that episode has left you wanting more find us on Instagram TikTok and YouTube just search Dish.

48:20Angela:If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com forward slash Dish recipes for all the ingredients and the recipes. Email your questions, thoughts, and suggestions to dish at waitrose.co.uk. Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production. Waitrose, the home of food lovers.