Joe Marler, jalapeño honey pulled pork with lime slaw, and a viognier

0:00Turn up the heat this Valentine's Day with a meal that brings a little steam to the table. Impress your loved one with some succulently sweet and slightly nutty tender stem broccoli, giving you that fine dining feeling without the faff. Simply boil, steam or grill your tender stem in just a few minutes and let this versatile veg take center stage on your Valentine's plate. This is Valentine's cooking, but better with tender stem broccoli. Add a pack to your weekly Waitrose shop, subject to availability. Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.

1:04In case we didn't realise. Just in case we didn't know. What do you like about December? I love everything about December. I like, I actually do, I joke, Tom, but I do like that it's a time of reflection. It's a good time to get together. I love all the lights. I love the trees. I love the food. Love the cold winter. I love the cold. Much prefer, yeah. I'd say October to February, my dream time. I enjoy it more, don't you? I love winter. Yeah, I love it. Favourite, love it. I love the fact it's dark at four o 'clock. Yeah, night-night. Night-night. Let's go to bed now. Yeah, I like it. But you know, we're here.

1:40We're ready. We've gone Christmassy. There's a Christmas lamp. Yes. I love Christmas lamp. We have Joe Marla joining us today. Very exciting. Who you all know off of rugby. Yeah. Obviously, we're huge rugby fans. And then he turned upon... This has got to be the first time. And then he turned upon Traitors, and we're like, oh my God, our favourite player. Yeah.

2:02from the Rugby League Gunas. Who? Rugby Union FC team. The way he scrums. Do you know what a scrum is? Yeah, I know what a scrum is. Okay. When they all get in there. When they all get like that. Yeah. Okay. But there's not just rugby to talk about Joe with. That's why we've got Joe on. He's doing his podcast coming up. Yes. Traitors. Shall we talk about the Angela Hartnett range at Waitrose? Yeah, let's do a bit of self-promotion. Hello, I'm Angela Hartnett. So, I didn't know this was happening. Yeah. There's an Angela Hartnett Waitrose line. Yes. Of loads of nice, I love how it looks, by the way.

2:45Lovely, lovely. Well, that's a... Can we just say as well, we've not been asked to do this. This is not some... No, no, this is you. We've not got a gun to our head. I was like, hello, let's talk about it. Yeah. It looks so chic and... I know. It's like baby pink and a nice dark forest green. Cantucci di mandolet. Excuse me? I haven't got my glasses on. I can't read a bloody thing. Get your glasses on. I can't see anything. Get your glasses on. So we have some lovely cantucci here. Then we have some brutto e ma buono. So basically ugly and beautiful. Oh, what is ugly and beautiful? So basically they're saying they're sort of ugly biscuits, but they're lovely hazelnut meringues.

3:19But then they taste beautiful. Oh, I'm going to have one of these. And then we've obviously got, oh, excuse me, Christmas panettone. and then we've got a little savoury number because you know me, I like the savoury. We have our little biscotti with parmesan cheese. Oh, I love that. So these are perfect for your drinks, little nibbles or a little snack on Christmas Day and these make great gifts. Oh, I like the look of that. There you go. Taste test. Nice crunch. Oh, it's horrible. It's really good. It's really good. Yeah. It's like a nuttier, less sweet amaretti. Well, they're not going to be over sweet, because you know what I'm like.

3:57Yeah, no, that's really good. And then the panettone. Well, my mum's really fussy about panettone. She likes to make sure there's enough butter in it. She doesn't like you going off mission and putting pistachios or chocolate or anything. So all of this I did do. I didn't just taste it. I got Neil to taste it. I got Salvatore to taste it. I got my uncle to taste it. So we all had a big taste-off, and everyone gave their opinion. So it was good. And my uncle was like, you know, no chocolate, no pistachio. He's right, traditional. And that's it. These are all made by these artisan Italian makers in Italy.

4:26So all from Italy, which is great. They're delicious. Thank you. I'm glad you like them. I'll eat more then. You can have as many as you want, Nick. We're going to try something now, which I've never had in my life. Mould rosé. It does actually smell lovely and Christmassy. It's the cinnamon in there and the star anise. So mould rosé and we put gin in it as well, just in case that was a little. Your rosé wasn't going to get you hammered enough. What was I doing with that? Bit of orange, cinnamon, star anise. It's actually quite nice. Because I don't normally like mulled wines. No, I don't really like mulled wines.

4:54But actually, I quite like that one. It's quite medicinal, but not in a bad way. No. Botanical, maybe, is the word I'm looking for. Botanical is botanical. Yeah. Look at you. Well, perfect thing to drink before a guest arrives, a mixture of rosé and gin. What could go wrong? Let's get Joe Mahler in.

5:14Why does this feel like line of duty? Yes. It's very serious, Joe. We are. Very serious. time to welcome our guest now I'm just singing a line of duty it's very serious right Joe Marlow where were you on the night of the 13th where were you I was actually starting to think where was I can you identify that sorry right where was I anyway let's welcome our guest yes who spoke five times a rugby union legend who's also a broadcaster podcaster and no stranger to a round table. Yes. Just told us on arrival, hates Christmas. It's Jamala, everyone. Hi. Welcome. Welcome, Joe. Hi, Joe. Thanks for coming.

6:02Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming. Dead nice to meet you. Yes. We've not actually, we have met, but not met. No, we've not met. I've stared at you. I stared at you. From afar. Where was this? When did you both stare at each other from afar? At the sumo wrestling. Grand sumo tournament. Yes. The Royal Albert Hall. Yes. I finally, that's my sport now Joe Is it? I love it What was your sport before? No No Badminton with my mum in the 90s Okay And then now sumo Well nice to meet you properly Oh yes, thank you Sorry, so much sumo Yeah, thank you for coming We've started with a dark and stormy Yes, cheers That's your favourite Thank you And welcome Joe Wow, yeah, cheers Cheers Cheers, Ange Here we go Lovely That's delicious Is it good?

6:47That is delicious Very good thank you have you had a dark and stormy before yes I have I have not for a very long time I find it a very wintry drink I think it's a great one yeah dark and stormy could you warm it up I suppose you could yeah but I think it's good chilled I think it's good chilled okay hang on we have to talk about the fact that you don't love Christmas okay well you can if you want obviously I do do Christmas yeah but is it reluctantly yeah do you two like do you two like Christmas oh do we ever yeah Well, I love a thing, like anything. My mum rang me. Anything. Anything. Any sense of occasion.

7:25Oh, right. I will do it. Or thing. Or thing, yeah. I like, like, you know, a bonfire night. Yes. Halloween. Easter. Easter. Yeah. Come on, a chance for lamb. It's like, you know, it's just like... Nick, Nick, you'll put a twist on anything. I like any time. My mum rang me when it was Halloween and she said, what are you doing? And me and Mish were, I said, I'm doing a pumpkin and he's making a Halloween outfit and my mum said, pair of bloody kids, you two. I was like, I love it. I love a thing like that. You've actually made me like Christmas. You're so infectious in a good way. Not like in the bad.

8:01I was very quickly turned around. I like Christmas now. Thank you, Joe. Thanks for watching. This is the Christmas. Christmas! We need to talk about traitors but not talk about traitors because as chance has it, we're actually recording this episode by the way Dish is not live everybody what so we're recording this on the day that the Traitors final is on so it's on in like 4 o 'clock now it's on in like 5 hours so I kind of want to wrap this up to go and watch Traitors but also we obviously can't talk about it but we can't not mention it because it would be weird to not mention it but also don't mention it thank you so without saying anything you have enjoyed it you look like you've enjoyed it yeah it was bonkers yeah I was a big fan beforehand yeah and then I was like when they were like oh went for a booking meeting or coffee or whatever and I was like how much is it going to cost me then and they were like what do you mean I was like well I'll obviously pay to come on the show wow that's how desperate I am and they were like no no it's not a lot of money and I was like I was like too late I've already said that I'd do it for free so it's good I should have gone the opposite way, but that's not how that works.

9:17It was wild. Like, just the names in the cast was just, yeah, brilliant. To be able to sit around the same table as, like, Stephen Fry, Jonathan Ross, Celie Imrie, and have the ability to, like, tell them to shut up. Yeah, yeah. Or grow up. Or just... And outwit them. Yeah. Some of them, you know. Outwit them. Well, you know, in the sense that you got rid of Jonathan, didn't you? Yes, I did. Yeah, you said. I did. I got rid of the chief traitor. Yeah. But I did tell people to get rid of him earlier, but none of them listened. No one's listened, yeah. A, because most of them didn't know who I was, and...

9:55That's not true, is it? That basically, no, is this true that they thought you were crew when some of them arrived? Yes, can you help me with my mic? That's what it said to you. I said that. I'll do my mic first, and then I'll come and help you with your mic. Who said that? And... I love coming out with my mic. And then the people that did know me or then get to know me, they were like, he's weird. Why would we listen to him? And is it quite surreal being in that room with everyone around the table playing the game? It'd be weird seeing them just in like a party, let alone you've got to like have a row with them.

10:35Yeah. On camera. Early on, I really struggled with that, around the table and it wasn't it wasn't shown but the first two round tables obviously Stephen would often lead off with some sort of eulogy or you know speech and it was like amazing this is great because the game plan going in was like just do what Stephen does surely that'll work and then it was like and then or Jonathan would speak or someone you know who's used to it all knows where all the cameras are there and I remember just being sat there like this for like 10 minutes My hands would be raised. They were all talking. And I think it was David who, at the first point, said, are you okay?

11:14I was like, I'm just waiting for my turn to speak. I thought I'd have to put my hand up. And then when I did speak, it was like, hi, guys. I've got a theory. No, but without giving anything away, you have named all the traitors. You know, you've done it. No one else did it. No, they haven't. I mean, I made some mistakes along the way. Yeah, but honestly, all of them have made mistakes. Yeah, good. Let's be honest. Everyone's thick. Everyone's sitting there going, Steve and Fry was going to do this, David was going to do it. None of them have delivered like we thought. You've done it. You've named them all.

11:46You should be amazing. You've also got to go with luck. I got very lucky with the time of the Shields. And you've also got to, if you're fans of the show, you know that usually traitors tend to keep in the more thick faithfuls towards the end. Stop putting yourself down. I'm not putting myself down. He wasn't talking about himself. It's the others. Nick Muhammad. David. Oh, God. Don't even get me started on him. How do you assume I was talking about me? I'm not Joe. I'm not thick. Would you like to be a traitor, Ange? Oh, no. Having watched this one, no. I think I'd want to be a faithful. Yeah, I can't tell what's going on.

12:24I think it's Tressel being a traitor. Yeah, I think so. Although if you're faithful, you've got to be working out all day. A traitor can just... A traitor's got more control. Yeah, that's so good. You know what they're doing. But if I had my time again, I wouldn't be a traitor. I think you'd be quite good at it. I'd be quite good as a traitor. But I think... Not on the show. No, but I think I could be good as one. Because, yeah, I think I could bullshit away. Yeah, I think you could, yeah. I can't wait for tonight. I will say this on the amount of food that was to make it more food-oriented. On dish, yeah.

12:58We thought you were about to tell us something. No, don't tell us. My wife, every time we've watched it, she's gone, why in every single shot are you eating? And I went, that's all I did. I just ate. I put on eight kilos during it. I was like, oh my God, this is so much fun. Just give me more food. And how's the breakfast? Because everyone gets very excited about the breakfast. Is it good? Yeah. Secret, you obviously have breakfast first. Oh. In your lodgings. Oh, of course, yeah. So I was like, double whammy. Get me in the breakfast room now. We all do tuck in though, you know. Well, you have to.

13:38I noticed when Alan would be, and a few people when they're guilty, they do eat. Yeah, eat. It's a good barrier, isn't it? When someone's looking, they're like, yeah, I mean, that's so interesting. Because then you're not talking. You're not talking. So when you're doing series two, I need to tell people how much you're eating. I like how you're dancing around, whether you've been asked to do it or not. No, I haven't. No. Is that good? Look at him, look at him. Was that good? Very good, very good one. That was good. Joe, we're going to do your food likes and dislikes. Come on. We always like to start dish with these.

14:15Yeah. Your loves are coleslaw. What makes great coleslaw? Well, I don't actually know what makes good, because I don't know how to make coleslaw, even though I'm guessing it's quite easy. Yeah, it is quite easy. You just shred a load of it. What makes great coleslaw? I think it's lots of mayonnaise in there. Oh, it's mayo in there. Yeah, yeah, mayo, yeah. What an everyday's a learning. So you like coleslaw, buffalo wings, barbecue food, low and slow dishes, pulled pork and crackling. Yeah. And this is giving sort of Texan. Yeah, Texan. Have you been to Texas? No. You'd love it. Would I? Yeah. Is it?

14:47It's that sort of food. Yeah. You'd love it. What's the slow roasting? Yeah. Spicy, like a bit of spice? Mmm. Mild. Mild. Unless it's specifically buffalo wings. Right. And that buffalo sauce. all the other heats. Not great with it. I don't mind the occasional chilli in my Vietnamese banh mi. Yes. But not like, oh, no. God, background chilli. Yeah, not killing it. A little bit of heat. Well, this is what... Where's the milk? Jules likes, obviously, have inspired what we're having today. Yes, yeah. What are we having today? We're having some tacos. Yes, delicious. With some pulled pork and then some coleslaw with some mint and coriander.

15:30A little bit of chilli if you would like it. A little bit of jalapeno. Just a little bit of warmth. A little bit of warmth. You don't want to overpower it. The only dislike, Jo, that we got from you was cockles. I don't think I've had a cockle. Do you like a cockle, Ange? I do like a cockle. Yeah? Yeah. It's something you have at the seaside. Yeah. And they're like the little... Tiny little ones. Tiny little things. You have a bit of cocktail stick. Yeah, exactly. And they're good when they've got loads of vinegar on them. They're minging. All right, Jo. They are... Oh, my wife. I'm not giving you them now, Joe.

16:01Oh, God. Don't worry, we don't do that. The panic set in. I went, where are the cockles? Don't worry. I bet they've got whelks as well. I'm like, oh, no. It's just the things you like today. Yes, yeah, just the things you like. And before we eat, we heard that you wanted to talk to Ange about carbonara. Oh, go on, tell me. Yeah, well, I'm, you know, I fancy myself as a bit of a carbonara extraordinaire. Okay. That's what I think I am. Yeah, go on. How do you make your carbonara? So I do equal amounts of pecorino and parmigiano. Yeah, lovely. Grated with three eggs, egg yolks. I do the pasta. Yeah.

16:48I fry the little chunky bits. Like the lardons or the pancetta. Pancetta, obviously pancetta. And then, but I also, because I want to get the protein as well, I do chicken thighs chopped up, like really nice and small. In with the pancetta? In with the pancetta. Okay. Then I mix it in with the pasta. Yeah. And then once that's all done, I put in that mixture, the cheesy egg mixture, last minute, off the hob, so it doesn't like go scrambled egg. Very good, very good. Originally I was panicking like, oh, is this going to make the kids poorly because it's raw egg and stuff like that. But no, no is right answer.

17:26and then I chuck a load of more parmesan on top. Any black pepper in there? The kids don't really like pepper. Oh, right. The kids get a bit weirded out when they're like, what's this stuff on there? Okay, fair enough. It sounds delicious, Joe. Is that good? Yeah, that's very good because you haven't done what a lot of people do and add cream. Why would you add cream? Exactly, Joe. You don't add cream. I'm asking that question on my lap. You do not add cream. Right, that's lazy. Lazy, very lazy. They think it's creamy, but it's not creamy. It's not. It's the eggs with the cheese that make it that creamy.

17:53So the egg is all right to eat raw egg because the pasta's so hot. Yeah, but the pasta's so hot and it's cooked it in a way. By the time you eat it, it's fine. Yeah. It's a nice organic egg. It's going to be delicious. There you go. Delicious, yes, Joe. So I can continue to cool myself up. That is the way to do it. Do it. Do nothing wrong, Joe. I think that's the first time a guest has given a recipe and not been corrected. And Angela's like, well, I wouldn't remember that. Well, Angela didn't say about black pepper. Yeah, she did say a bit of black pepper. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Hang on, is there a white pepper?

18:27There is a white pepper. White and black, yeah. Yeah. Why don't we ever have white pepper? What is that? Lots of people have white pepper or things. I don't know, black pepper's just come into it, hasn't it? Everyone starts to use it. Can you use white pepper? Stop it. Stop, stop it. Pepper. But you were talking about how you do like white pepper with something. White pepper's good with fish. Like if you poach fish, it's good to have white pepper because it's just a different seasoning. It does taste different. Poached fish. You know, if it's done nice, Joe, it's nice. What's a fish to your poach?

18:56I do it with cockles. No, I'm joking. That's for later. That's for later. Now, one thing you didn't mention, but we have read in other Joe interviews, which we have been reading all week. Oh, the panic sets in. Is your love of chocolate. Because you spoke about it in interviews before with true passion. Yeah. Not on the list, but what sort of form of chocolate are we talking? Any? Any. Any. Any. even dark I'm really into at the minute the chocolate orange dark lint bar that you get because in my head I think I read somewhere that dark chocolate's healthy for you it's full of antioxidants and stuff like that so I go I'll have a kilo of that that's healthy I love it I think red wine also got that people drink red wine and eat chocolate and they're like it's healthy kilo of dark chocolate and a pint of red wine.

19:51Hello. Look at me. Hello. Not a sumo. Not yet. Yet. Not yet. We will be. And then outside of the carbonara, how are your cooking skills? Do you like to cook? I love cooking. Yeah. I can follow a recipe. I can't really, I haven't got like the creativity or the knowledge to just like see what happens. Well, you were a sous chef for a bit, right? No. I need some definition on what a sous-chef is. So what was your kitchen experience? I used to work at Bateman's Tea Room. You know where Rudyard Kipling used to live? No. Oh. I thought that was common knowledge. No. It's like a national... Oh, is it?

20:35What's the national places people go to? National Trust. National Trust. It's a National Trust place. Really? Okay. And they got a tea room there, and my ex-girlfriend's mum was the chef there, and then I used to do like the scone mixing or chopping the salad. But I ended up getting sacked from there. Why did you get sacked? Because I used to nick the cakes.

21:06How big a cake were you getting? Well, just the whole thing. One scone or like wedding? No, like the whole... It would be like a lemon drizzle cake. I would have to take the bins out at the end. And I'd go, okay, do that. And as I'd do that, there'd be like a section of cakes ready for tomorrow. And I would just take a cake or two, maybe the coffee and walnut. Good choice, that. And then I'd wrap it up, take it with me, hide it behind the bins. And then I'd take it home and tuck into it. I think one day I didn't do the bins and they did. And they were like, what's this? Why is there a cake here?

21:44I was like, oh. I don't know how that got there. Yeah, so. That was my experience. That was your experience, yeah. Of suit chefing. We were talking before you came in about rugby. I did a project on rugby at school. What do you mean a project? I had to do a project about a sport and I picked rugby. What was the project? We used to sort of do like what's his rugby? And I did a little project, bought my magazines, cut everyone out, stuck them in there. How did it go for you? Wrote the rules, union v league, how many players were in each and stuff like that. Do you still know now? No. Okay. We just discussed it before you came in.

22:20I was like, one's got nine, one's got 11. Someone was like, no, they don't. One's got nine, one's got 11? One's got 13, one's got 15. Nice. Have you just been fed those answers? Yeah, mate. But how did you get into it? How did you fall in love with rugby when you were younger? When I was younger, I was like, well angry and well, like, aggressive. way more than what I am now. I have these, like, bouts of anger, and it was trying to, my parents would struggle to, like, get me to do something to channel that. And I remember them taking me to karate to try and think that they would channel it. But then I'd come back and I'd add some new moves to beat up my sisters with, so that didn't work.

22:58It was worse. Yeah, worse. Yeah, it was, like, trained you. Yeah, they've trained me. I'm an assassin now. See what I mean? And then a mate of mine said, oh, you're quite big and thingy, why don't you come try rugby? And my dad had played like locally, you know, more for the sort of social side of it and the drinking culture around it. So the rugby was a belt, but it wasn't massive. And my mum's like, oh, why don't you come play for us? It'd be great. And I was like, okay, this is great. And I went from... What age was that? About 12. And I went from being told off all the time for whacking people to then playing rugby where I was praised for whacking people.

23:39and I'm like yeah go on do it again I'm like this is so confusing for a child one minute you're telling me off next minute you're praising me what do I do here and I just fell in love with the chaos of it I was like this is a great way for me on a Sunday morning to go and channel it yeah and then somehow ended up getting a contract when I was 16 17 growing up I didn't it was never like a life dream to be a rugby player I wanted to be an actor I was always like oh let me get on the stage Did you ever do it? I got Ronnie, the bus driver, at the school play on Our Day Out. And I had a solo... That's a very serious play.

24:20Sorry, there was someone giggling in the audience. And I got a solo. Yeah, I ended up singing Mustang Sally. Oh, yeah. I've forgotten the words, so I can't do it again now. And I love that. But then rugby sort of became a bit of a stage. I was like, oh, well, this is a different type of stage. This is good. I can play this character a bit or a version of me. And that was sort of what I did and then ended up playing a helmet most of the time. Mainly because that's what came naturally to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was good. I remember doing it at school. I always had to do PE. And yeah, I had to go and do rugby.

24:59Not like it. Oh, no. No. It hurt as cold. No. I remember our school is like a comprehensive in Oldham. And once they said, we're going to do, what's it called? Jousting? On horseback? No, not jousting. What's it called? Fencing. Fencing. No, not jousting. Fencing. Fencing. But they only had two fencing costumes. So the PE lesson would be get in a queue. Oh, no. Get in a queue. And then everyone would go like that. And then they'd have to take the whole outfit on. And the next person would get in. I am not on my life. So we'd queue up for like 45 minutes. and then you put it on and go like that and then go next.