Louis Theroux can’t get enough of our spiced short-ribs and pitcher of paloma

6:51Louis Theroux:which is obviously very expensive is the I cycle to dish badge wow you don't have to worry thank you for that don't you don't have to worry

7:00Angela:so three BAFTAs yeah and I cycle to dish badge

7:04Louis Theroux:yeah exactly

7:05Angela:I truly am A Renaissance man.

7:07Louis Theroux:How do you feel when you are cycling over to Dish or anywhere else, when you are the one being interviewed? Because we had Graham Norton, and he was saying he finds it a bit funny. He was getting a card envy, because obviously, usually, he's not a lot of them. Do you like being an interviewer? No, I'm not like that.

7:23Angela:No? I feel like, oh, it's... Rightly or wrongly, I think the pressure's off me. All the pressure's on you. Yeah. Are you feeling it? Big time. To have a big guest. you're going to get the best out of me I think you know I'm just going to come here be myself I find actually when I'm interviewing especially if it's a podcast and I've got someone that I really admire not speaking for you now obviously but I'm thinking is it going to go well am I going to ask the right questions will I be able to create the necessary rapport but I do I'm genuinely I think an open book like I'm someone who if anything I babble on a bit too much so I'm I'm kind of thinking, oh, cool, I'll get to find out what you're curious about and talk about that.

8:08Angela:Do you know what I mean?

8:09Louis Theroux:Yeah. Hey, we're going to start with a Paloma. So tequila's your go-to. Yeah.

8:15Angela:It's a fun drink, isn't it? It is. It lifts your spirits. You have a couple of those and the party's started.

8:23Nick:Don't you find? This also looks fun, colour-wise. Colour-wise.

8:26Angela:And actually, red grapefruit, pink grapefruit is one of my favourite fruits. Plus lime is ticking all the boxes.

8:34Nick:Oh, you've got that real sharp palate. You like that sort of citrusy bite. I like that. You're picking up my... No, I do. Well, that's my palate and I like it. I love anything sharp, citrusy.

8:45Angela:Hello. Here we go. Bit of lime, bit of ginger.

8:48Louis Theroux:Well, we were dead excited and we got to see your new show, Inside the Manosphere, which we want to get into in a bit. My Netflix original. But first, we always start the podcast with likes and dislikes of our guests and what food you're into. and it's quite an amazing list this it's quite simple list but i'm intrigued and you said that your favorite ingredients are garlic tomatoes ginger onions you love southeast asian and italian food you're good with spices and you love tequila based cocktails yeah hence why we're doing that but the snack list was was really good and salt and vinegar peanuts cadbury's fruit and nut before adding nice chalk in general yeah are you an abbreviator are we saying chalk uh chalk

9:30Angela:Yeah, I think I am. Yeah, you are. Choc. Choc. No ex-age. Yeah. Sometimes in my taste I say un-forch. Do you ever say un-forch? Un-forch. I spell it C-H. I think I've invented...

9:44Louis Theroux:I don't think I've said un-forch. No, never. Never make it un-forch. Un-forch. Oh, maybe you can't make it un-forch.

9:50Nick:Yeah.

9:51Louis Theroux:And then there were two puddings listed because we rarely do a dessert on dish. I'm not mad for a dessert. Angela.

9:58Nick:Not a dessert.

9:59Louis Theroux:I've had for dessert. Really? Bread and butter pudding. I have sweet tea. Or twimbles. You could get a Michelin star

10:04Angela:without being into desserts.

10:06Nick:You need to know about the desserts. You need to be able to cook them and make them. Can you cook things you don't really like? Well, it's not I don't like them. They're just not my preference. You give me an offer of cheese or a pudding, I'd rather have cheese. I like savoury.

10:18Angela:You were born in 1968, weren't you? Yes, gosh. I think it's a life stage thing. I don't know.

10:23Nick:Excuse me, where it works?

10:26Angela:Did you Google Angela? No, but your attitude to desserts, I've certain clues like that. Right. No, you're just making that up. I narrowed it down. I don't believe that. Do you find it's hard to read menus close up? You need glasses?

10:38Louis Theroux:Interesting. Yeah, that would make sense. Okay, we placed it. 68. 68, yeah. Definitely, it's 68. Yeah. Because you're here and you're you, Angela actually today is going to break protocol and she's going to make a crumble.

10:51Angela:Nice.

10:52Louis Theroux:Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah, you like a crumble.

10:53Angela:Just what I need after I've eaten a heavy lunch. I know. A big crumble. It's the perfect day for it. ribs followed by a crumble yeah perfect

11:02Louis Theroux:you also took the time to tell us that you would like to master the courgette Angela is right here what's wrong with the courgette

11:10Angela:I do cook a lot in general I cook a lot of courgettes very versatile a vegetable you can obviously have it raw you can roast it you can steam it whatever you can undercook it overcook it but I sometimes feel like I'm not getting maximum value out of it. They sometimes tend to get a little bit too soft. Spongy maybe. And sometimes when I roast them, I'm not getting, I'm like, is it not roasted enough? Is it roasted enough? And there's also a thing where, you know, food can get weird, but then if you keep going, sometimes it'll arrive somewhere else. You know what I mean? Like I made a thing with courgettes once and I cooked them like, I don't know what happened.

11:53Angela:I think I forgot about them. They were like little carbonated, It's black discs. Quite tasty. Because I'd salted and put a lot of olive oil in. And they were like, yeah, they were just little kind of like sliced lumps of salty coal.

12:09Louis Theroux:They sound delicious, Louis. Let's get that recipe. You probably don't need advice, Angela. What would you do with a courgette that's delicious?

12:16Nick:The one thing I do, I think you should wait for the middle of the year when it's the banging courgette season and you get the Romano courgettes because they're much firmer, less spongy. And I always cut them in the centre lengthwise, chop them up into little cubes, and then I put them in a really hot pan with olive oil and then saute them and add loads of garlic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then tiny, tiny little bit of water and cook them like in about five minutes. Right. And so they're soft, but they still hold their body because they don't have that sponginess in the middle. Right. And they're absolutely delicious.

12:51Angela:In a hot pan. Really hot pan. And they're going to get a little black at the edges little brown at the edges.

12:55Nick:They'll get a bit of brownness, you know, a little bit. That will add flavour, that roasting flavour. And the secret is sort of roast them off, add your garlic, roast that without colour and then add your water and then literally, you know, put a, like a piece of greaseproof paper and that steam will just cook them really quickly. I've made them for you, I think, before. What, six minutes, seven minutes? No, not even that long. Really? I'd say about five minutes. Yeah, not that long. But you like to cook,

13:18Louis Theroux:Lou, don't you? Yeah, I love it. You like to bake and cook and stuff. We see it on your Instagram. what do you like to do? what is your sort of go to? well first of all

13:25Angela:I'm the go to cook of the family so that's my role it's something I enjoy it's an escape it's something I do to I don't deal with stress anxiety displace any kind of if I'm about to go on a shoot and it's just there's things preying on my mind it's a displacement activity and I just do a lot of family dishes I do a bolognese most weekends on a Sunday I do a big batch of bolognese

13:50Nick:Are you cooking for a big family, Louis? There's three boys.

13:53Angela:Well, one's at university now, so there's basically four of us. But take a kilo of mince and then just do a huge, like big saucepan, just do a ton of it. I used to do in lockdown a lot of veggie lasagnas.

14:07Louis Theroux:Yes.

14:07Angela:That's quite a bit of work. Yeah, a lot of chopping. I like roasting a chicken. Yes. That's not that much work. No. Shava, I do a Jamie Oliver recipe. You stick a lemon in its cavity. That's the term they use, isn't it? Yes. Well, it's cavity. What? Part of the body is the cavity. You don't want to know. Don't worry about it. Where's your cavity? Excuse me. Cavity. Put a lemon in your cavity, Nick. Get that in. And then some herbs, and then, you know, massage a little olive oil, salt and pepper in it, roast potatoes. Those are the staples.

14:41Louis Theroux:Yeah. And that I feel like is minimal effort, but never bad. Like a roast chicken done in a home.

14:48Angela:Fantastic. As long as you haven't overcooked it, if you get the timings right. Yesterday, no, two days ago, it was my middle son's 18th. Actually, it wasn't. It was a few days before, but I'd given him for his birthday as a treat because he's a bit of a gourmand. And it being his 18th, I got him a Wagyu steak. Oh, wow. Like his main present. I ordered it from a specialty online butcher. It cost, I shouldn't say this, but it was like 80 pounds. Not the weight, the price. Can you imagine an 80 pound steak? I know. I fit in a room. That'd be about 40 kilos. Wow. Those Japanese cattle are amazing.

15:22Angela:And it came in, it was wrapped in like, you know, just sort of had Japanese writing on it. It was beautifully presented. I opened it up and satisfyingly, it looked like not much like a normal steak. Because it's obviously veined with the fat. And it's sort of buttery. And it felt, I don't know, it's hard to describe really, but it looked really distinctive.

15:41Louis Theroux:How did you present that to him? Cooked or raw?

15:44Angela:No, raw. Because part of the joke would be weird. Like, happy birthday, son. It's sizzling. it feels quite hot why is that brown dripping from it I know open it quickly no matter who you like

16:01Angela:I meant more like you just cook him a meal for his birthday no part of the pleasure is him cooking it for himself he likes to cook perfect

16:10Louis Theroux:so he cooked do you and your son and the rest of your family as well like to seek out a good restaurant then if he's a fan of cooking he still do destination eating.

16:20Angela:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And in fact, as a special reward from time to time, we'll go quite posh. I think it was my wife's 50th, and we took the family to a I think it's like a two or three star Michelin restaurant called Core. Okay, yeah. Oh, yes. Does that ring a bell? Yeah, it does, yeah. In West London. And actually, it was a bit like, because my youngest at the time was probably eight or nine, it was like dragging him to the opera.

16:46Nick:Yeah.

16:47Angela:Where he's like, what is going on? and they said, here is course number seven. Some mushrooms drizzled with a sherry, mixed with a sherry. And he's like, this is the most boring. You know those tasting menus that have literally nine or ten courses? Yeah, yeah. And he was, I remember by the end, he was under the table, just sort of writhing around. And I thought, this is not what, this is not a good look. That can happen at those places. I think I could see them thinking like, what, what this idiot's brought an eight-year-old to like one of the best restaurants in London. Yeah, why? With their full.

17:16Angela:Yeah, why, why? It's all transcended normal eating. It's become an art form at that point. Like I had a meal once at Noma, the famous restaurant in Copenhagen. Early on, it was about seven or eight years ago and it felt like, oh, this is an avant-garde piece of theater. You don't get bread.

17:35Nick:You weren't having a dish.

17:36Angela:You get this is a twice cooked dough from some grains only found in the dunes of northern Svalbard. And that's not butter. that's actually yaks fat reduced in a mélange. Do you know what I mean? And you're like, it's a bit like bread and butter. A bit like bread and butter.

17:55Louis Theroux:All right, the food has arrived. Angela, tell us what we have here, please.

18:00Nick:So we have a five-spice of lemongrass short ribs. So you take your short ribs, brown them beautifully in a pan with some vegetable oil, so you brown them all over. And they're always on the bone, so you keep them on the bone.

18:10Louis Theroux:So just straight with nothing on.

18:11Nick:Just salt and pepper in the oil and really brown them off. Then remove them from the pan, and then you start to make your paste. Oh, my God. Because this is a South... What happened? Oh. That's so good. Okay, good, good. I thought you were like, oh, my God. It's like melting. Because you like Asian food, South Asian food. So this is a Vietnamese dish. Oh, Jesus.

18:34Angela:Delicious.

18:35Nick:And then we make our paste, which is shallots, lemongrass, garlic, ginger, bay leaf.

18:40Louis Theroux:And there's five spice in the paste as well, right?

18:43Nick:Yep.

18:43Louis Theroux:And what is five spice? I presume five spices altogether.

18:47Nick:It is five spices. And it's star anise, cinnamon, cloves, fennel, and Sichuan pepper. And this is the foundation of most Chinese cuisine. And it's the balance of sweet, bitter, sour, savoury, and salty. It's good. And that's what you're feeling, that hit of savoury sweetness coming through. It's that five spice.

19:05Louis Theroux:It's really good with the parsnip.

19:07Nick:Yeah. The parsnip works with it, because traditionally in Vietnam, they just use carrots.

19:10Angela:I was going to say, you don't think of parsnips in beer.

19:13Nick:No, but for this recipe, we've added some parsnips. Very underrated vegetable.

19:16Angela:I love a parsnip. That's phenomenal.

19:19Nick:Thank you, Louis. Oh, and you had a big lunch as well.

19:22Angela:How long? I like how big the bone is. Yeah. Almost human-like. Yeah, human.

19:30Angela:How long did you, maybe you're getting to this, how long did you cook that for?

19:34Nick:About two and a half hours, three hours, yeah. So once you've made your paste, which was coriander, tomato, puree, ginger, bay leaves, garlic and lemongrass and shallots. Then you add in your vegetables, which are parsnips and carrots. Cover those with vegetable stock. And then you re-add in your ribs. Tuck them all in, cover the vegetables on top and then bake it in the oven or cook it in the oven for about two hours. Low heat, turn it halfway through cooking. Wow. And then the last sort of...

19:59Angela:You said in a pan with a lid. Yeah, in a pan with a lid. Could you do it in a baking tray with boil over or something like that?

20:06Nick:Yeah, you could do. Yeah, if you didn't have a pan with a lid. No pans with lids, Louis?

20:12Angela:Sometimes the lid's plastic and it melts if you put it in the oven. Oh, no.

20:17Nick:See, you didn't think of that.

20:18Louis Theroux:Not that one.

20:20Nick:But no, you can. You can put foil on top and put it in a tray in the oven, yeah. And then that's it. And then you finish it with a touch of fish sauce once it comes out. A little bit of fish sauce. Yeah, and then some fresh lime.

20:34Angela:Nampla. Very good. Did you know about that?

20:36Louis Theroux:No, I didn't. So we're on the side. And the rice is delicious as well. Is the sauce on the rice just the sauce from the meat? Just the sauce from the cooking. Wow, really good, Andrew. So tell me, what are the pro tips for doing this, do you think? What's the one thing that you definitely would do?

20:53Nick:I think it's the same that you do in all the stages of cooking. If you did Indian, Italian, the base, get your base right. So it's when you make that paste, don't rush it. Don't rush colour in the meat. Make sure it's really nicely evenly covered. and then let it cook in the oven. Again, wait till it's cooked. Give yourself time.

21:10Angela:What about getting a good cut of meat? Exactly. Let's start there. Where would you get it from?

21:16Nick:Waitrose. Waitrose. Come on, Louis.

21:19Louis Theroux:Hello. So would you go to the meat counter for this? Yes, you get this from the meat counter. So you just don't want short ribs.

21:26Nick:Short ribs, but they are literally, rather a rib like this would be like huge.

21:30Angela:Here's me thinking it might be pork, but I know it's not. No, no.

21:34Nick:But you couldn't, could you do it with pork? Yeah, you could do it with pork, but I think on this cut, this is particularly good because of the amount of meat you get on these short ribs. You get a bit fat on it as well. Yeah, lots of fat. It is, yeah, you get it on. And that all melts down into the sauce.

21:47Louis Theroux:And this is actually quite a good one for the style of cooking that I like doing, where it's sort of minimal effort. Yeah. Maximum taste. It tastes delicious.

21:59Nick:You didn't even have to peel the vegetables. Just give them a little scrub. That's it.

22:03Angela:No weird ingredients.

22:04Nick:No weird ingredients, you know.

22:06Angela:It's annoying, then just sits in the larder for a year.

22:09Nick:Never to be used again.

22:10Angela:Who's the worst culprit for that? Oh, we're going to put him out there? Yotam Ottolenghi. Big sign. Big sign.

22:20Nick:I think even Yotam knows that. Yeah, he knows. I think he knows. He's fully aware of that.

22:24Angela:He's trying to steer out of it now with his new recipes. He's like, don't worry, there's no weird ingredients in this one. Just some mango chocobah.

22:32Louis Theroux:What? If you want to try this recipe, you can, of course, get all the ingredients and the recipe waitrose.com forward slash dish recipes. There's also a wine pairing as well. Yeah. The wine pairing is the Penfolds Bin 28 Shiraz. So that will be absolutely perfect with this. Perfect with it. Perfect. Do you want a glass of wine?

22:51Angela:Sure. Yeah, let's have a glass of wine. That's one I drink at home, actually. Is it? Yeah. It's not an overly expensive... It's like, what is it? Six or seven pounds? 30 pounds. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. No, it isn't.

23:03Louis Theroux:Yes, it is. 30 pounds. Oh, well, maybe I get a different one. Not overly... That translates as six pounds in through money.

23:11Angela:Yeah, it does. Oh, sorry, Lily. So maybe I get Penfolds Basic, and this is Bin 28. Bin, yeah, Bin 28. A different bin. I think I'm working on a different bin.

23:21Louis Theroux:Let's talk about your show now, then.

23:23Angela:Yes, I think we should. My Netflix debut feature documentary. How do you feel about that?

23:28Nick:Excited, excited.

23:29Angela:Yeah, it was stressful to make because I knew that the people I was covering, it's about the manosphere, if you know the term. It's this culture of misogynistic and toxic influences. Men who believe in male supremacy. Andrew Tate's probably the most famous example. And they've taken the internet by storm, especially post-lockdown. They became very viral among young men. The film Adolescence, the series Adolescence, was sort of about a boy who's been influenced. Yeah, kind of about that, tangentially. Ours takes place with me in the world of those influences. I investigate, spend time among them, try to get to know them.

24:07Angela:Going into it knowing that because some of them are live streamers, in other words, they basically make their living online recording round the clock their shenanigans each and every day, that they would probably film me. And so I knew that there was a chance that would be, in a sense, that our cover would be blown and then thought that might be a fun way of kind of creating a more interesting conflict for the film.

24:29Louis Theroux:It's a real eye-opener into a world that I don't know anything about, apart from little bits that I've heard around Andrew Tate. It was quite a disturbing watch. I thought it was really...

24:41Nick:I thought it was frightening.

24:43Louis Theroux:Yeah, I thought it was scary. There was so much, actually, that freaked me out. But the bit where you were with, remind me of the guy, this dreamer, who has the wife called Angie. I hate that, remember? Oh, Myron Gaines. Yes, Myron. And he had on The Scientist. That's right. who told the science story of if your wife has had sex with somebody else in the past, the sperm can be in her brain and then your kid might look like someone she's had sex with years ago. And they were like, fact. Yeah, not true. I was like, not a fact.

25:12Nick:Yes. No.

25:14Angela:Yeah, incredulous. And they're all like, oh, wow, that's fascinating. And I'm like, that is not correct. But the ways, yeah, that kind of information goes viral. And in a way, that's the purest example of misinformation or whether it's a conspiracy theory or some patently false piece of fake scientific knowledge or just attitudes that are in themselves poisonous, anti-social, that they have currency. And because they're being presented by people who have a huge rapport with these fan bases, this sort of parasocial relationship that they have with their, people who listen to them, that they accept all of that.

25:50Angela:So, yeah, I mean, I think it's probably the right reaction to feel disturbed and troubled and at the same time to recognize that for kids, this is normal content. Maybe not Myron Gaines, but certainly people like H.S. Tiki Toki, who features in it, and Ed Matthews, who's also in it. These streamers enjoy huge virality, have huge social media followers. And make an income of it. It's this weird, I think it speaks to the culture that we live in, which is that we've got two worlds. We've got the normie world that we mostly inhabit, where we're sort of listening to the radio, maybe BBC Radio 1 or 4 or whatever, or watching the TV or getting our content.

26:28Angela:And then younger people who are creatures of the internet and internet culture for whom the names H.S. Tiki Toki or Andrew Tate, that's their. You know, weird is it to say, that's their Blue Peter, if you like, because these are 14, 15-year-old, 13-year-old kids who are watching and these are their celebrities. so it's a strange thing to reflect on but for the older generation they're like who are these troglodytic figures like these sort of strange backward looking retrograde avatars of kind of medieval mindset do you know what I mean? of like women shouldn't vote, women are stupid but actually for young teenage boys across Western Europe, across America those are their pop stars in a way

27:17Louis Theroux:It's so crazy. I thought it was the most crazy watch. And I think seeing the way that it is sort of snowballed was worrying as well. When you talked about, and there was mentions of how now kids in schools in America are sort of refusing to be taught by female teachers.

27:34Nick:I mean, it's frightening. In 2026. That is madness.

27:38Angela:But it's of a piece with, not to get really heavy, because it's a light-hearted culinary show, by the way. The beef is deliciously tender. But what about misogyny? And it came from Waitrose. But this sort of media landscape that we're in now, in which undeniable scientific facts are suddenly open to question. You know, the levels of belief in the idea that the world is a globe, for example. The idea that the earth is actually round. We took that for granted. Like that isn't accepted. The scientific fact has been for many centuries. Now more and more people are questioning that. It used to be kind of a joke.

28:16Angela:In some ways, it's still quite funny. Well, you think they have this flat? What is your problem? But because of the level of credulity, the way in which misinformation spreads, that's become a common misconception among younger people.

28:28Louis Theroux:And do you think that they believe this? Or do you think that they are saying sort of scandalous, sensationalist things? So, you know, we all talk about them. They get more extremists. They get more revenue.

28:39Angela:I think both things are true at different times. I think sometimes both things are true at the same time. It doesn't really matter. They'll just say things sometimes just for an effect.

28:48Louis Theroux:And talk to us about this that we see. Yeah, that song. This sign. Does it have a name?

28:53Angela:I think it's the Matrix sign. Right. And it's just, whenever you see Andrew Tate interviewed on a mainstream show, quite often he'll be doing a diamond shape with his four fingers and thumbs. And I think, I don't know, I think it's a way of saying, I know what you're doing. It's signaling to his fans. I'm here. I'm here. Yeah, I know what's going on. Like Lady Gaga, Little Monsters.

29:14Louis Theroux:Is that what she does? I mean, she doesn't sit like this. But she has her thing, yeah.

29:19Angela:But you know what? It's like an in-joke. Or maybe more like an in-crowd acknowledgement. Right, okay.

29:25Nick:And I sort of think it's like, I'm here for you. I just felt that we've been, I've grew up, and any time I watch something, I think, oh, I want to be that, I want to be a tennis player, or I want to run a marathon. You did it. And now I think kids are looking, I want to be, you know, an OnlyFans. or I want to, you know, like all the women were portrayed really as if they were stupid. And I thought that's awful because even what's-his-name's mother said, you don't know.

29:48Angela:That's right. HS's mum pops up and she's like a normal mum. She's a normal mum. She's a single mum, went to work, had a pretty high-powered job, raised HS on her own. And I think some part of it is like, what have I created? I mean, she loves him. Yeah. But then he says, because one of their things is he should marry a virgin. but meanwhile as a man you should have as many sexual interactions as possible, that's your body count and I said but that's pretty weird why would you say men should have as much as they can and women shouldn't have any and you saw his mum just going like oh jeez

30:22Nick:she was definitely embarrassed about some of the things he was coming out

30:26Louis Theroux:he had moments I thought where he sort of snapped out of it I think like the bit when there was a bit when you were talking about his dad and he was saying I don't have any trauma me and my mum were like and then there was a bit when you went to the gym where he was talking to the camera and you said oh you don't need to talk to the camera and he's like oh sorry and they almost like snap out of it that's an interesting moment

30:46Angela:because he's talking to the camera and he goes like lads what I'd like to do is start with a little workout and I go like who are you talking to me why are you talking to my camera like there's someone there do I talk to you just talk to me just talk to me like I'm here like I'm a normal person he goes alright sometimes I come down to the gym and his whole tonality shifts he starts talking proper Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? But to your point about the revelation is, for me, and maybe this isn't a surprise, but a lot of projections of strength are actually compensations for weakness. And the revealing moment is where Tate says, my dad used to beat the shit out of me.

31:23Angela:He goes, one good ass whipping, that's all it takes. One good ass whipping and you'll shape up real quick or something like that. And you're like, oh, wow, you were physically abused. you've actually had to adapt to a horrific abusive background in which you had to learn strategies of survival. And then you've used that as your roadmap for life and you're selling it to kids as though that's the answer to everything. And more about the beef.

31:51Nick:Right. On that note, I'm going to get you some fun.

31:59Louis Theroux:It's out right now, so you can see it. Thank you. That was delicious. watch it on Netflix have you got Netflix?

32:06Angela:I do have Netflix it's a new streaming service yeah I've heard of it a lot of people are using it yeah yeah it's alright isn't it? it's good yeah it's really good it's so convenient so convenient because the programs aren't on at a time right it's like a menu but you can have it whenever you want

32:21Louis Theroux:what?

32:22Angela:do you know what I mean?

32:27Angela:what's in the custard? um it's out of the package stop it Is it? I'm not going to lie for you. A Waitrose packet. A Waitrose packet. Can you get stars taken away for doing things like that?

32:40Louis Theroux:When I did Bake Off, speaking of custard, do you know they do, because I want to talk to a boy about you, Louis, when you did Bake Off. I did it, and you know you get like the blind test, you can prep one and then you get a surprise challenge. Yeah. One of mine said, make a Queen's pudding. Never heard of that. And then the steps were like, one, prepare it, two, make custard. and I thought genuinely, I was like, make it. I thought that was like a...

33:04Nick:Yeah, pre-ball.

33:06Louis Theroux:Yeah, it was like milk. It just like came. When you did Bake Off, you did incredibly well. You got a lot. Yeah.

33:13Angela:Well, I did okay. I didn't win it. I did get three handshakes, which has never happened before. Yeah. Because I got a handshake from Paul. Yeah. And I got a handshake from Prue. Yes. And then I got a handshake from Noel. Yeah. And he was like, this means nothing. I just grabbed his hand, I thought. Nice to do it. And that was for a cookie that resembled a pizza. Yes. And then I kind of lost the plot in the last round. I was doing a choux pastry. What's the one? You had to pump it full of cream.

33:43Nick:Okay, like a choux bun. A choux bun or something.

33:46Angela:The pressure was too much.

33:47Nick:And what, your cream split?

33:49Angela:I couldn't quite get the amounts right. They started kind of exploding. Oh, right, put too much in. And then also I lost confidence in... They give you a little bit of direction. and they're like, well, you might want to use a little bit, wire a frame like an armature and construct a little sculpture with your shoe. I'm not doing any of that. But really, I should have taken their advice. The result was mine looked very lame. Who won? It was, what's her name? It was a comedian. She's got a cooking-ish name. What's her name? Sue?

34:23Louis Theroux:Souffle.

34:24Angela:Souffle. No, what is her name? Jenny Eclair

34:31Louis Theroux:Jenny Eclair

34:34Angela:Jenny Eclair

34:35Louis Theroux:I'm cooking this day I love that Jenny Eclair I thought it sounds like a fix

34:41Angela:How is she not going to win? It sounds like a fix Yeah it was Jenny Eclair

34:46Nick:Love that

34:49Angela:That's how I remembered it By the way She was the best She was definitely the best She deserved it This is delicious This was amazing I'm so excited that it's rhubarb

34:58Nick:Oh, I love rhubarb. Yeah, best, best. We love it.

35:01Louis Theroux:You need that. That rhubarb. Rhubarb pear. That's got a bit of tartness, doesn't it? Mm-hmm. That's what you need. How would you make a really good crumbolange?

35:08Nick:You've got your butter and your flour. Yours is gluten-free.

35:12Louis Theroux:Thank you.

35:13Nick:Rub your butter into your flour so it resembles breadcrumbs. Then fold in your sugar. We use demerara sugar here.

35:20Angela:Do you want the butter quite cold?

35:21Nick:You want it cold because you don't mind having a few lumps of the butter. It doesn't need to be absolutely perfect. You don't want melted butter.

35:26Angela:No, exactly. So nice and firm.

35:30Nick:And then you have the rhubarb cut into about five centimetre sort of lengths, diced pear, and then I put a little bit of diced stem ginger and a little bit of the syrup in there as well because ginger and rhubarb, I think, is a great little marriage. And this is obviously our lovely Chetnan McCann recipe. That's delicious. That works well. And then the custard out of the packet from Waitrose. Oh, yeah. I do an apple crumble.

35:53Angela:It's a Delia recipe. Yeah, I love Delia. And she puts a few almonds in the crumble. Very nice.

35:58Nick:No, some people put oats as well and a few nuts as well, which I like.

36:01Angela:You can do it in a blender, so you don't have to rub it with your fingers. You don't, no. So it's actually quite a low input. Maintenance. Low maintenance pudding. And then with the nuts, you get a little bit of crisp.

36:13Nick:Yeah.

36:14Louis Theroux:Yes. I wanted to ask you, Louis, about how your interviewing journey began. Because we read in an interview that you said that all humans just have an urge to connect. Did you have that at a young age? Were you naturally inquisitive when you were younger? I think so. I mean, I think probably everyone is. Yeah, maybe every kid is.

36:35Angela:Maybe in addition to that, I felt a little bit like an outsider. And I was very worry prone. And I found that when I saw something really odd happening, like I remember seeing people who probably had mental illness, like on the street, you go somewhere, go out to the family and you're on your way to a gallery or whatever, a museum or a show. and then you see homeless or people with mental... And I just remember thinking, what's going on with them? And they said, but why? What's happening here? And then later on at school, just people who are outsiders or in different ways didn't feel like they fitted in, just being curious about them.

37:09Angela:I mean, it's hard to analyze yourself because you are who you are, aren't you? But I just know that anything that felt like it took me out of myself and also finding things funny and finding that if you have that in common with someone else. You find ways of connecting through humour that that was something that alleviated my anxiety a bit. Was there anyone that you were fascinated with off the telly or in popular culture? So many people. I was of the 70s generation and probably was watching similar things to Angela. What did we watch, Angela?

37:47Nick:Blue Peter, all those, Grange Hill. Do you remember Bill Oddy when he...

37:51Angela:Swap Shop, that was on. The Goodies, do you remember The Goodies? The Goodies, yeah. The Goodies for me was like a religion. What was The Goodies? They don't have The Goodies. Can you imagine, they've got Andrew Tate and it just ticky-tocky. We had The Goodies. We had The Goodies. And Dad's arm and The Good Life, all those sort of things. There was John Noakes, who was a Blue Peter presenter, and he had a very puppy-ish enthusiasm, and he seemed cheeky and somewhat irreverent. He was probably not from Oldham, but he was from Lancashire somewhere. Do you remember him at all? I do know him. And he had the dogs.

38:20Angela:He did one where they would do adventures, and he climbed Nelson's column. This is a famous, you can still find it on YouTube. Seek it out, we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, we will. So he gets to the top and you can see he's panicking, but he's trying not to make too much of it. It's an amazing piece of television because as a kid you're thrilled, but also that, you know, you're relating to that sense of, he feels like he's your cheeky uncle. Yeah. So stuff like that. Actually, my favorite thing was that there was a show, maybe it's still on, called It'll Be Alright on the Night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:50Angela:And that concept of bloopers, the idea that TV could sometimes go wrong and you were seeing it when it jumps the tracks. People forget their lines or they get the giggles or a dog goes rabid and bites one of the presenters. That was my sweet spot.

39:05Louis Theroux:I love that too. I love that too. There's a bit of a peep behind the curtain, wasn't there? Yeah, see what's going on. I also love that. If that was ever wrong. It had a feeling of taboo, didn't it? Yeah, and I was allowed to stay up and watch that. Who's the man that did it? Barry Norman?

39:18Angela:Back then it was called Dennis Norton. Dennis Norton. Yeah, that's right.

39:22Louis Theroux:Yes.

39:23Angela:Yeah. I used to love that. Probably now it would feel quite basic, but at the time when everything on TV felt a bit po-faced and formal, to see that it could go wrong was like a kind of... A revelation. A revelation, yeah. Exactly. You know what I'm talking about.

39:37Nick:Well, it's true, but it's also, I think, when you do all your interviews, you have that, and I mean this properly, don't all of, like that childlike curiosity that I, you know, my sister's just had a little baby girl and I love being with Elsie because she just questions everything. And I think that's, you know, and I think it's a shame when you get to adulthood that you start worrying about what people think and you start, don't ask the questions. You think people are going to laugh or they think you're going to be silly. And always one of the things I love about Neil is that he still has that.

40:07Nick:My husband and my brother always says, I love Neil, because he'll just ask. Whatever's in his brain comes out. A lot of the time you think, Christ alive, why did you say that, Neil? But he does ask questions. He's not afraid to go, actually, I don't know about that. And I think we should all do that more. Big time. Because, you know.

40:22Angela:And actually, sometimes it's the emperor's new clothes. Like the question that you ask is like what everyone was thinking, but no one dared to ask. And for me, when it goes a bit wrong, you know, that's the sweet spot of my program making. And, you know, this show that I've got on Netflix, it's sort of going wrong the whole time. I'm constantly being put on the spot, being wrong-footed. my process is being shown by them they're filming me and all of that is grist to the mill so there's a real continuity there I think that spirit of chaos being a good thing still informs my work

40:57Louis Theroux:how do your kids deal with the love of Louis Theroux and you know people having tattoos of you and you know must be coming up to you and asking for selfies how do they deal with that?

41:07Angela:I think the selfie thing they find a bit boring you know if we're on our way somewhere they don't make a fuss about it I think I haven't talked to them a huge amount like it's not something obviously I'm their dad I'm not like Louis threw off the telly and so walking around with a camera crew

41:23Nick:camera crew down at breakfast it's like

41:25Angela:are we rolling? yes

41:28Nick:how's your time?

41:29Angela:hey guys it's time for bed oh sorry I'll go for another take guys it's time for bed you know like it'd be quite weird no I'm just I mean I'm a normal dad with normal problems you know what I mean and actually I'm not always my best self at home I'm more irritable. So the idea that they see me on TV, I haven't really dived into what that feels like for them. I do know that when Jiggle Jiggle went viral, my viral rap song a couple of years ago, and my kid, especially the middle one, was on TikTok quite a lot, and then his favorite platform was overtaken by his irrelevant dad doing the most cringe song in history.

42:07Angela:We found that quite confusing. Yeah, quite a weird thing. But he never made a fuss about it.

42:10Louis Theroux:It'd be quite odd. It's quite rare that someone who makes documentaries about pretty hard-hitting stuff becomes sort of a crossover person that people are like, the hottest man in the world is Louis Theroux, here's my tattoo, there's a Louis Theroux candle, for example. How is the sort of fame, I guess, as the byproduct of your documentary?

42:31Angela:Well, I mean, I'm grateful for it. I can't say it feels completely normal. And candle, by the way, feels like the least of it. What is that? Well, I only mean in the sense that There's other products that are quite odd, but for a while there were Louis Theroux club nights where people would arrive all wearing Louis Theroux masks. I mean, put yourself in that position where you see yourself in videos online where there's like 50 or 100 university students dancing around with Louis Theroux masks on.

43:00Louis Theroux:That is boggling. I mean, I don't read too much into it.

43:02Angela:It's not like they're going off dedicating their life to a religion. But it's all tongue-in-cheek and hopefully not. Or maybe hopefully. Like my thing with the tattoos is like, wow, that's quite unusual. But then at the same time, what an amazing tribute. You know what I mean? And then I feel like maybe I should get a tattoo of myself. No. You know, in solidarity. They've got that much faith in me. Yeah, I'm a bit of faith in you. The least is I can match it. Someone once said like, by Starks and Harley Davidson. Why Harley Davidson? Because people have Harley Davidson tattoos. and like any company that people get tattoos of is going to be around forever.

43:42Angela:So by that metric, the idea of people having tattoos of me is an amazing investment. Yeah, crypto.

43:49Louis Theroux:Let's get an NFT out there, right? You know who would have a Louis Theroux tattoo is Mish.

43:53Nick:Oh yeah, your partner. Yeah, he loves you.

43:57Louis Theroux:What's stopping him? Me.

44:00Angela:Exactly, imagine. You'd have to look at me during your intimate moments. Okay, there you go.

44:11Angela:This crumble's amazing. It's really good.

44:13Nick:There's lots you can take home to the boys and everyone.

44:16Louis Theroux:Louis Thru, it's time for your fast food quiz. Time to do this. Tell us your favourite way to eat eggs. Well, I think I'd probably go fried. Favourite sandwich, Phil-in?

44:27Angela:I like a fish finger sandwich.

44:29Nick:Oh, nice choice. Tartar sauce.

44:31Angela:But I use bird's eye. Probably others, I wouldn't use, I wouldn't put any tartar sauce on there. some brown bread toasted and a little bit of butter, grate some cheese on top, some Tabasco. Does that sound nice? It does sound nice, actually. You cut it, you make it probably, depending on the size of the bread, this is TMI, never mind. Depending on the size of the bread, it depends how many fish fingers you use, maybe three or four, and then you cut it and then the steam comes out. Yeah, it comes out. That's nice. It makes it very slightly soft. A bit of pepper. I mentioned that to Marco Pierre White.

45:02Angela:What did he say? And I said, put a bit of cheese on. and he's like, cheese on a fish finger sandwich? I don't know what he's talking about. Like I've blown his mind with my flavor combinations on. That has never been done before. And it works surprisingly well.

45:16Louis Theroux:What is your favorite form of potato?

45:18Angela:I like a roast potato. And you're going to parboil it, put some, maybe even goose fat, but at the very least shake it. You know that thing, shake it up in the pan? Yeah, yeah, shake it. You get it right. It's gorgeous. It's the best. What's your favorite herb? favourite herb it's such an inane question isn't it you know what I mean oh fine I like basil fresh basil basil I do like coriander I mean I like all the herbs yeah I like all the herbs I'm not a huge fan of the aniseed I don't know what that food group is the one that tastes a bit like like fennel-y you know what I mean dill that sort of thing yeah dill's alright on fish but that's not funny he made a noise basil basil basil basil basil basil they say basil in america they do yeah but fresh basil like when you pick it straight off the plant it's quite different isn't it it's like whoa well blows

46:14Louis Theroux:your mind that does that does doesn't it yes um a hard hitting question now what's the best flavor of crisp lutheran uh salt and vinegar that's easy and that's correct i think that is correct

46:25Angela:people who say like oh like ready salted i'm like i say ready life is for living yeah oh

46:31Nick:Oh, come on, have you not had a ready-salted sandwich?

46:34Angela:You're just drifting your life away.

46:35Nick:No, Louis, I disagree with you on every level. There's nothing on there. I would put ready-salted crisps. Take her star away.

46:40Angela:That's it. I think that's quite the shatty choice, though.

46:43Nick:It's in your fish finger sandwich.

46:45Angela:That's not a flavour.

46:46Nick:Yeah, it's salted flavour. It's that savouriness in your mouth, Louis. I'm not going to fall out with you over crisps.

46:52Angela:Okay, fine. I'm going to ask you about... I do think vinegar... It's one of the mysteries, as a traveller to America, one of the mysteries is that vinegar on chips never... They think that's weird. Yeah. And to me, that's so fundamental. It's a mystery. It's a mystery and mental. Yeah, vinegar on chips and crisps.

47:08Nick:What's your favourite dish from your childhood?

47:10Angela:I used to like, I mean, I wouldn't want it now, but spaghetti hoops on toast. Love spaghetti hoops. Do you remember? I have that now. I don't even know if they have that. They do.

47:17Nick:So weird. And you put cheese on that. Really? Oh, yeah, I love that. You wouldn't have that. I have had that. Hangover cure. Angela Hartness. Yes.

47:25Angela:Michelin starred chef.

47:26Nick:Would have spaghetti hoops on toast. With a crisp sandwich on the side. Really?

47:32Louis Theroux:And final question for you, Louis. What is your favourite kitchen utensil? Oh, that's a good question.

47:38Angela:I've got an answer for that. Okay. That is a good question. Thank you, Louis. Because obviously, these are like, knives are important, you know, slotted spoon. I think a pair of tongs. Mm-hmm. Proud, Lisa. Approval from the audience there. Because, and I'll give an honourable mention to scissors.

47:57Louis Theroux:Mm-hmm.

47:57Angela:Yeah. Well, is that weird? because you know when you're like you're doing a bolognese like oh that needs breaking up scissors snip snip snip snip snip break up the meat but tongs where it's like you don't you know you just need to tongs we're turning over a steak or it's like having extended fingers you know the concept of a tong right

48:15Nick:Edward Scissorhands you're there with it

48:17Angela:it's like you can pick things up at a distance yes safety it's like an almost magical it's like a magical implement I use a spoon what's the right answer like what else would you say like oh I like knives well obviously knives

48:29Nick:No, but I like a microplane.

48:33Angela:I like a microplane. I don't even know what that is.

48:35Nick:There may be one in your goodie bag. I don't know about a garlic press. No, I don't like a use of them. I don't need one.

48:40Angela:They're very flawed because 10 % of the garlic stays in the press. It's rubbish. Plus, the time you save on chopping it, you lose by having to clean it. Yeah. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Get rid of that. I heard, this is terrible gossip, I'm going to share it. Someone who worked with him said that Jamie, I bought a Jamie Oliver garlic press I don't know why I just bought one this was about 10-15 years ago and then a friend of mine in TV land who said he worked with Jamie he says oh Jamie never uses a garlic press he doesn't believe in them I'm like I just bought a Jamie Oliver garlic press wow I've been cheated yes you have that's pretty cynical yeah unbelievable putting these names on anything

49:23Louis Theroux:Lou we come to the end of the show question it is in this gold envelope we have a waitress goodie back here for your chance to win that that's going to be tricky on the bike very tricky on the bike we can get it sent to you might not want to win it all you've got to do is answer the question in this envelope Louis

49:42Angela:I'm feeling so full right now I feel really full I feel a bit Christmas day levels I'm so full end of show question written by the crew please read out loud hi Louis thank you so much for coming on Dish That was perfection. Meaningless because this was obviously written before I was on Dish. They knew though. To win the Waitrose goodie bag, all you need to do is help us with the narration of this episode with your unmatchable voiceover skills. That second paloma is kicking in. Nick and Angela have your script ready and prepared. Thanks, Team Dish.

50:19Louis Theroux:So we're going to hand you this bit of script now and then we're going to edit together, I don't know, Angela by a pan and make it feel like we're doing a heart-hitting Lutheran documentary. I like it.

50:30Angela:Okay. And if I do it well, I get the goodie bag? You do. But what if I don't do it well? You get the goodie bag. Yeah. Ready? I'd arranged a visit to the Dish studio in an effort to understand the motivations and techniques of Michelin star chef Angela Hartnett, OBE, MBE, and her podcast co-presenter Nick Grimshaw, NoBE. From the moment I arrived, I felt a sense that I was being watched. It was an interesting formula, food and chat in the guise of entertainment, which was cutting through to a large audience of impressionable home cooks. I was keen to understand Nick a little better. However, I could tell he was about to fill our time by asking me questions about my own cooking skills.

51:18Angela:I learned a lot from my time with Nick and Angela, but in leaving the dish studio, I was mainly struck by its power to feed as well as entertain. I was treated with kindness and warmth and left with a full stomach of tequila, ribs and crumble, all the while holding tightly to the goodie bag I'd just won. Yes! Come on! That was actually... Thank you so much. I need this person as my ghost writer. someone studied my my voiceover quite closely but mainly those used all the tropes God is it that easy makes me feel like

52:02Louis Theroux:Louis thank you so much thank you so much that was so fun that was delicious thank you you were fantastic thank you and make sure you watch Louis' brand new show on Netflix right now Louis thank you Louis Theroux everybody Thank you very much. Thank you. I love that man. Thank you very much. Thank you so much.

52:28Louis Theroux:If that episode has left you wanting more, find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Just search Dish.

52:35Nick:If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com forward slash Dish recipes for all the ingredients and the recipes.

52:44Louis Theroux:Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to dish at waitrose.co.uk

52:49Nick:Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production.

52:53Louis Theroux:Waitrose, the home of food lovers.