Niall Horan joins us for an epic beef Bourguignon pie

0:00Niall Horan:Here at Fiona Cairns, we believe that every occasion is worth celebrating. For nearly 40 years, our team has used only the finest ingredients to handcraft the irresistible taste of our light golden sponge and rich chocolate fairy cakes. From birthdays, afternoon tea, or even those special me moments, there's a lovingly baked treat for everyone. Bring a smile to your kitchen table with Fiona Cairns. Visit FionaCairns.com or find us in the bakery aisle at your local Waitrose. selected stores subject to availability imagine a place where the everyday doesn't exist where bites delight and indulgence is on the menu because Ascot is your oyster and if oysters aren't your thing it's your pizza, burger, caviar you're the gastronaut exploring legendary lunches from magical Michelin menus to a picnic so fine it needs a star of its own between bites, world class racing as you cheer, as you toast this June, come hungry for more more flavour, more celebration More Royal Ascot.

1:00Book now at ascot.com. Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.

1:16Hello and welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I'm Nick Grimshaw. And I'm Angela Hartnett. And we are here for an episode of Dish with a wonderful guest today. Someone you know very well. Yes. Wonderful Niall. Have you ever met Niall? Never met Niall, Niall. Oh, you're going to like Niall. Oh, good. I think you're going to like him. He is a really nice guy. Yeah. Real fun to hang out with. He has a brand new single called Dinner Party. Yeah. And an album called Dinner Party. Perfect. What more do we want? Someone with a food-related album on top of it. Yeah, that ticks all our boxes. A real good laugh.

1:47Yeah. He sent me a voice note. Okay. When he said he was coming on Dish. Half of it was him doing an impression of me. I am it's me I'm coming on dish I was like that's not how I talk thank you Niall but yeah he's great he's really fun and you'll really like him so a lot to talk to Niall about today because an incredible career really when you think about it truly how old is he early 30s early 30s and they were made famous yeah like 16 but yeah I said to him I said I think you're going to have a really nice time on dish I think you guys will really get on I think Niall and you are at your optimum personality in the pub.

2:29I just think you are both great people to go to the pub with. I've hung out with him at Glastonbury. I've hung out with you at Glastonbury. I just think it's going to be a fun one. It's going to work. I don't think there's going to be awkward silences is all I was going to say with the pair of you two. We never have that. But should we get on with this? I think so. It's going to be a lot of fun. Let's do it. So let's get Niall in.

2:54Hello, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello, Nick. Welcome. How are you? Hello. How are you? Lovely to meet you. I really like you two meeting. Yeah. I really like it. I really like it. We're a good match. Great match. How are you? Are you okay? I'm good. I'm good. Look at this for an audience. I know. To watch three people eat food. Yeah. They love it. We're going to make you a pie. You are? Yes. We've made you one. It's in there. But yeah, come on, sit down. I'm going to sit down. We're all going to make a pint, allegedly. Am I? Apparently. No, jeez. I'm nervous. Let's get rid of that. Nervous? Oh, come on.

3:31In such prestige. Oh, shut up. Behave. Okay, so should we welcome our guest, Angela? Yes. Let's do this. Please welcome a singer-songwriter who sold millions of records in the world. But did you know that his first time on stage was playing the role of Oliver? Oh, wow. Did you know that? I did not know that. Hopefully asking you for more. More, please. More. I round her applause for Niall Hart, everybody. Niall. Welcome. Hi. Hello. How are you? Thanks for having me. Oh, thank you for coming. This is fun, isn't it? Very fun. A whole audience to watch you eat your dinner. I know. It's quite the crew.

4:12I feel self-conscious about it. Oh, not at all. There's no one over there. No. Oh, isn't it normal? Yeah, we're good. We're good. We're good. I love the podcast. Oh, thank you. Is it called a podcast? Well, we got sold a podcast. And now it's filmed. there's like an audience yeah it's like Saturday Night Takeaway you know what I mean you could win a car I could win a lasagna or something on dish or something but no we were so happy you were coming on thank you I've been saying to Anja I really feel like and I've been saying to Naila as well I feel like you two will get on excellent I think you're both great thanks on that note I think oh stop oh that's it no no I think it's too high it is oh it's too high the pie is too high see that's just genius isn't it that's genius just like you know she sends that She's just like, I'm presenting a show up here, but also the pie's a bit hot.

4:59I just, no, it was on like 250. Oh, Jesus. Oh, Jesus. You know yourself, it's wrong. Too high. Too high. Well, we're welcoming you with a Negroni. I've done you a Pomegranate Negroni. So cheers, Niall. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for having me. This is lovely. Cheers. We love it. A little, um. Where are we going after? Oh, crikey. That is punchy. Well, you know. That is strong, eh? Grimmy? What? That's the recipe. What's the recipe? That was the recipe. I love one smell. You're like, where are we going after? Where are we going after? So how is life for you, Niall? I've not seen you for a long time.

5:40I can't remember the last time I saw you. We were drunken in a Adele concert. We were drunken in a Adele concert. But you're right. Yeah. He's got a bit of a mad cousin. Have you met Cousin Liv? I've met Nise. Nise. I've met Liv, yeah. So we had a few drinks. Is it the Delcon Zahir or is it out in Vegas? No, it was in Hyde Park. She did the British summertime thing. Yeah, that was fun. We had a few beers that night. A few beers. But yeah, I always love seeing you. Yeah, we always do. We always seem to be just the first time we've done it sober in a while, to be fair. True, actually. We always seem to cross paths at a good time.

6:11Glastonbury. Glastonbury. Have a great time at Glastonbury. I always feel you two, the people after when you've done awards or you went to things like the Brits and stuff and did the radio the next day, you two would be in the same state. That's happened a few. That's happened a few. times yeah that's definitely happened you actually because i thought about this i lost my voice last week and i always think about when at glastonbury once i was doing the radio and i completely lost my voice and you saved me with you went and got some spray that you had and some things that you had like a weird like a lozenge yeah but it was like it looked medical they're called vocals right yeah they're basically medical level yeah lozenges they're not your average trepsil no Not your average show.

6:52No. It's for singers. For singers. Performers. It's for singers. But it's done nice to you. And so you've got a new record, which we need to talk about in a second. Yeah, that'd be great. And you presumably have spent the past year or so crafting that and making that. Yeah. How does it feel now being back in these sorts of rooms when you've had, you know, time away? Yeah. It is a bit mad. Because I finished the tour at the end of 24, disappeared for like, literally did nothing for five or six months, and then just started writing this album. And it's funny when you get back to your first day at school again.

7:26Even though I've done this kind of like promotional, getting yourself back out there into the conversation again and stuff for the last 15 years. Do you like doing all that promotional stuff? Is that something you sort of revel in? No. Why are you laughing? Why? Well, I don't know if anyone likes. No one's going around going, I love it. I love it. Give me an interview. Do you like doing interviews about Dish? No. Fair enough, fair enough. Got it. No, it is funny. It's like you're getting back on the horse again. But it's great. Like, when you're away from her for a bit, you're actually excited to get back into the mix.

8:05Especially when you've got something that you really like. Yeah. You know what I mean? When you've got music that you like and you want to tell people about. So that's the main reason we do it, probably. And then, yeah, no, it's just good to be back at it again. Yeah. It's been a while. What do you do when you're totally off? Because a tour and doing this sort of, you know, promo work, and I think Niall's doing it like truly the world over as well. Do you know what I mean? It's not like do dish and like go on the radio. It's everywhere. What do you do when you're off and you can have that dedicated bit of time away?

8:37I used to just like not do much at all, but now I'm in a relationship, have a house, have a dog. Things are a little bit different. I long to be at home a lot more than I used to, like growing up in the industry. It didn't matter where I was. I was just living out of a suitcase for 15 years, so it didn't really matter where I was. So I never really had that, like, I had a place in London always, but it never really felt like a home. So this is the first time that I've had a home and someone to go home to and all that kind of lovely, loved-up stuff. So I literally like going home, walking around the village, drinking copious amounts of coffee and walking the dog too much.

9:17And do you feel more... Oh, my God, I was never going to say another boy band. I never got that. When you were in the Backstreet Boys... When you came out... It came out, and that's the wrong thing as well. No, come on, Anne. Oh, Mum. Sorry. What's the band called? One Direction. Thank you, sorry. I'm a lot older than I look, honestly. I'm nearly 60. I can't remember anything. Right, when you're in One Direction, that felt quite controlled for you. like they were telling you what to do when you had to tour in all the way. Do you feel now much more that you're obviously your own person, you can do what you want when you want, you know?

9:50Yeah, I think you just get used to seeing the way it can be done on side A and then doing it a little bit differently on side B. At that time also, a lot younger, full of energy, you know, and just learning how it works. It takes time to have the right team around you, to tour and crew, when to tour, when not to tour, went to make an album. I like the idea of going to work, being pop star Nile. Yeah, pop star Nile. Pop star Nile. Pop star Nile. He's pop star Nile today. So then I will be pop star Nile. Not be pop star Nile. Yeah. Fair enough. It's tiring being pop star Nile. Yeah. I'm knackered.

10:27I'm knackered. Look at the bags. I'm knackered. I'm knackered. I'm knackered. Yeah. We said at the top of your intro that you were in Oliver. Was that the first time you were on the stage? Yeah, I think it was. I did like little like carol services things at school I had this teacher called Miss Caulfield and she she figured out that I could sing I must have been doing it quite loudly and then she put me in like these little I was singing like the first verse of Away in a Manger yeah banger and then yeah they were making I was about 10 maybe and they were doing a little school production of Oliver Twist and I got cast as Oliver and I just yeah and I think that's where I fell in love with it like I was like performing and stuff yeah and that's just being up there and getting all the attention yeah and did you enjoy it because I think it's funny when you're a kid like half of you kind of wants to do it and then half it's quite terrifying putting yourself out there in front of like the school and everything but did you love it yeah no it's a bit of both like I was probably overconfident 10 year old and wanted to be up there and then got up there and bricked myself and like all of a sudden not so confident yeah But no, I loved all that stuff.

11:40I loved going to watch shows. I loved being in them. My aunt was like my biggest fan. She lived in New York and she would actually make me sing. Right. You know, and people are like, do an accent or be funny. So I had to do all the singing and stuff when I was a kid so I couldn't get away from it really. But yeah, I think it was just an overconfident 10-year-old just running around the place. You've done all right, Alan. Yeah, you've done all right, Alan. And now I'm an annoying 33-year-old. Some things never change. Niall will be performing a song from Oliver. Yeah, exactly. At the end of the show.

12:10Con, city yourself. Did you do shows, Ange, when you were little? Not at home, but I was in school plays and stuff. And always, because my voice is quite deep, I went to an all-girls school, I always had to play the bloke. That was the thing. I was tall when I had to play that thing. I was always the bloke. Who were you in things? Well, things like when we did West Side Story, I was Tony. You say, this whole show is going to be mocking me. I love Lyle Lange. All pair of shit's a pair of their arms. I love the idea of you being... All right, Tony. All right, Tony.

12:46That Negroni is... I'm going to be hammered after this. I know. Well, you wanted a Negroni. I will say you were very... We're going to do your food likes and dislikes. And I like that you took it seriously. Well, to be honest, I thought it was for Angers cooking. Like, what does he not like? Yes. I didn't realize it was going to be a talking point. Yeah. Well, both. I'm happy to talk about them. Yeah. We're going to go through them right now. They're hard times in my life. I'm going to go through them right now. So your likes are Japanese food, Italian food, smash burgers. Two fast food chains, make the list.

13:14McDonald's and Five Guys. I'd say they're my burger places. Absolutely. Mostly hungover burger eating. We also heard that you love spicy food. Yeah, I love spicy food. And you're into hot sauces. Yeah. Not spicy pie today, though, is it? Not spicy pie. Not spicy pie. Spicy pie. Your dislikes were avocado. I hate avocado. I hate avocado. Do you live in LA? Part-time. Part-time. They're mad for it there. You know what? I don't mind guacamole fully enough. I think it's a textural thing. Right. You know when you have like avocado, sliced avocado toast or something like that? Your other no's were cucumber, radish, apples.

13:52Also, actually the thing, I think the only thing you dislike, coriander. Oh, yeah. Coriander. We also, our team did some research and they found out that it's a big note of peas. Yeah, they're a bit too earthy for me. Oh, okay. They get in the way of some great meals. Oh, right. Like a lot of those things that I've mentioned. Yeah, like what are they adding? Cucumber, coriander is a disaster. You know when you don't like something and it's the last, the meal has been made. As you know, you work in a kitchen, so you just do the last. That little bit of it, yeah. On the end. Thanks. Not that. You f***ed it for me.

14:27You also said, and this is one that we do get quite a lot, fruit in savoury meals. Yeah, I want to caveat that because the first one, when I seen it written down, I filled in a form for this, by the way. There was a survey done for Dish. There was a survey. Yes. It's the fact that enter a competition to be... And I won and I'm here.

14:49Thanks for having me. It was... The first thing that came to mind was American breakfasts. Right, yeah. You know when you stay somewhere or you go somewhere and they like to do eggs, bacon, and then you're just like, on the same plate, a load of strawberries and blueberries and you're like come on are you trying to tell me that that's your way of justifying health on this you know what I mean you got big fat streaky bacon dripping and then there's like strawberries I just don't really I don't really get it not into that well I hate to say it but I did pomegranate on Negroni I like that's alright that's alright I'll take that I love pomegranate Waitrose pomegranate is it they're my favourite oh they've got the best do you know what I mean just get a little spoon just have them On the move, you know?

15:31They are the best. I'm posh now, by the way. He's now posh. Yeah, yeah. Okay. We all are, aren't we? We all are now, aren't we? We got to help him. We had two other notes from you as well, Niall. Firstly, you said you would like a meal that is classified as hearty. Good work. Okay. One of our favorite food adjectives. And secondly, you wanted some tips on making a pie. Yeah. Well, do you know what? We like to make dreams come true on this program. You're going to make a pie. Yeah. Come on. So do you want to head to the kitchen? Head to the kitchen. All I do, just be here. Swivel. Swivel. Swivel.

16:09Swivel. Thanks, honey. Yeah, if you just swivel. You could just swivel and be out of focus to the camera. That'd be great. So that's a lovely beef bourguignon pie, which we're going to eat later. So this is all cooked. So you basically cook your pastry before. You line it. Bake blind it. So you basically put in some baking beans or rice so that it cooks nice and solid. egg wash it so that puts like egg yolk so it firms it up and then we put our pie filling in so you can do that yeah when you see that bit and then we're going to put our pie topping on how much how much right up to the level so it's nice and full because the pastry is going to sit on top all right okay so you don't want it sort of sinking maybe i should maybe not do it like that yeah that's that was a rookie error right there yeah you're all right let's get it in there we want a hearty one there we go a nice hearty one that's it yeah lovely lovely the edges that's all looking good might as well finish it off here we go yeah you may as well god that was good portion control what do you think of that nice right now i'm just gonna very good right now you're gonna crimp it a little bit i didn't crimp this one because i didn't give my so you're gonna just fold over like this gives you another little extra edge oh lord come on oh lord lord's not gonna help you now it's just you right there you go come on there you go crimp like that just pull So you kind of do a bit of that.

17:24That's it. Yeah, you got it. That's it. Fold that way. Yeah. A little pinch down. Go on. That's it. Yeah, that's it. There you go. We go on last little bit and then we're done. You sure you want to watch this? He's doing all right, actually. It's all right. He's up there with who else we had up here? Damien Lewis. Yes. Yeah, you're up there with Damien. That's the first time I've ever been out mentioning the same sentence. Yeah, yeah, Damien Lewis. Major pie crimpers. There you go. No one's done this much work. Right, then pie on top. Come on. So stick that there nicely. Is it OK for that pastry to break?

17:56Yeah, a little bit, because the thing is with pie, is you need to make sure you do a little slip so the steam comes out, so that this doesn't go soggy. Otherwise, when the steam comes out, make it soggy. And the last little bit to give it a nice golden colour. Egg wash. Egg wash, you see? You know the terminology already. I once made a Wellington. Oh, there you go. And ruined a whole New Year's party. Why? Because it just burst and there's pastry everywhere. where we basically just had a nice fillet steak. Lovely. A bit of mushroom.

18:26That's quite ambitious, Wellington. I've never made one. I was watching a Gordon. He's responsible for it now. So, here we have the... He started something with Wellington's, didn't he? Everyone started making them. It's constant, yeah. It feels like his is the only recipe of all time. All the chefs are like, I make an unbelievable Wellington. Yeah, everyone does that. I can't do it. Right, right. We're nearly done enough. Yeah, that's perfect. Now we're going to stick it in the oven. And what did you do for the egg wash four inches? Just to give it a nice golden colour. OK. But you see, Lyle's will look good because his is really nice.

19:03He crimped it, whereas I didn't crimp mine. I was a bit lazy and just stuck it on the top. We always say that about you. Yeah, very lazy. Lazy. Lazy Michelin star chef. I've just met her and I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes, Lyle, come on, the sous chef. Do you like to cook? Yeah, to be fair, I do. I think during COVID, I got mad into it. You just try on every website, anything you haven't made before you give a crack. When I'm home, I try and do a little bit. Nothing overly complicated. You know when you think, I want to be patient. And then you get halfway through it, and you're like, oh, this is a pain.

19:38Well, I think as I'm getting older, I find things that I used to find boring. Like I'm into gardening now. I hate that. Well, same. I have also gone through this thing. of like, you know, taking pictures of a magnolia tree and sending them to my mum. I did that the other day. Look at these buds. They look lovely. Yeah. Yeah, I know the names of about five or six flowers now that I never knew before. So I like this, that you're gardening and cooking and... You know, as you know, I spend so much time in the hotels and traveling the world and I feel like the last few years I've just been able to just...

20:09I'm in the settling down period. And it's been... That's nice to be in there. It's been nice to just be at home and do stuff like that. that people watching this would go, I do that every day. What do you like to cook then? What is the sort of thing that you do like to do? If me and Ange would come in for tea. If you and Ange were coming around. What would you do? Well, I'm an unbelievable pie maker, if you didn't know. Unbelievable. Well, crimped pie. Honestly, some of the best crimping pies around. What would I do if you were coming around? Or what would you like doing? Because I don't like anything like too fancy or stressy.

20:41No, no, no. I like doing like a chicken and potatoes and a salad, something like that. That kind of thing. Yeah. or I'll tell you a funny one my manager Harry I went around to his house one day and he was making spaghetti bolognese and it looked like he was going to some mad effort and I was in the corner just drinking wine and I was like this is really nice he goes mate I've got the best recipe for spaghetti bolognese ever I was like just when we leave just text me so I was at home that night I get texted like at 11 or 12 o 'clock and it just had www.jamieoliver.com and he thought he'd broken the earth here with this like out of this world best spaghetti woman's recipe but to be fair it is phenomenal it's pretty good yeah and yeah it's a slow cooker one you know one of those like leave it in for a couple of hours and it actually is really lovely yeah love making a roast yes and my partner makes the meanest roast so I just kind of leave her to it but I love a good roast potato and a good bit of pork or something like that simple stuff Like, nothing that...

21:43If people are coming around, you don't want to embarrass yourself, do you? No, and I've done that before. I've always been too ambitious. I'd always make something I've never made before. Oh, my God, the pies here. I thought they went a bit big with the portion, but I hope that's... You said hearty. That's hearty. It's going to fuel the tour, this. Now wanted a pie, now gets a pie. Tell us what we've got here, Angela, please. So we have a beef bourguignon pie with collie cheddar mash. We've made a beef bourguignon stew, which is a Martha Collison recipe. So we've used ox cheek that we've braised down with some bacon lardons, carrots, onion, garlic, a little bit of tomato puree, some red wine, beef stock.

22:25And you basically braise that for at least three to four hours till it's really soft and beautiful. And then the bourguignon part at the end, you add in some roasted mushrooms and some baby onions. And you mix that all in at the end. And so that's our pie filling. And then the pastry, do you make pastry? I've never made pastry in my life. We did make the pastry, short crust pastry from Diana Henry. Plain flour, salted butter. Blend that all together. Egg yolk to bind it with a touch of water. And then you let it rest. I blind bake the pastry and then fill it with a cold filling. That is delicious.

23:00And then we have cauliflower and potato mash. So it's basically mashed potato with mashed cauliflower as well. And some cheddar cheese. A little bit of Dijon mustard as well. Oh, I love that Dijon. This is so good. This is really good. My mum makes a beef bourguignon, but never a beef bourguignon pie. Has she not? Oh, there you go. Come on, Eileen. Come on, Eileen. I'll come around and show her how to crimp. Yeah, you can come around and crimp. Show her how to crimp. You can do that. So what sort of meat are we talking? So if you use ox cheek, or you can do a lovely stewing steak or braising steak.

23:31But ox cheek is just delicious. It's really quite a muscly part of the animal. so it takes a long time to cook down but that's why it's so lovely because all the sinew in there and all the fat in there and stuff. How long do you braise it for? At least three to four hours. Oh, lovely. Yeah, so a long time. And the other thing you put in, we put in this lovely bouquet garnet with loads of thyme and rosemary so we sort of tie that all together and that sort of really infuses it. B bouquet garnet. I love that. Is that where you like wrap it all up? Wrap it all up. You can either cover it all wrapped in a leek or you just tie it through all.

24:00So basically you can take it out. Wrapped in a leek, sorry. A leek, yeah. So a leek will hold it all together, or we just tied it together. And there may be a couple of bay leaves in here, so just watch out for the bay leaves. Just watch out. But that's fine. They won't harm you. This is delicious. I love a pie. I never make a pie. It's quite good for a dinner party, innit? Yeah, it's one thing, one pot wonder. It's actually delicious. Yeah, there's nothing worse than having to be like all over the oven when you're trying to have poor drinks for people and stuff like that. Conversations, yeah.

24:27Yeah, I've never made it pastry, and I don't know why, because I imagine it's like ye olde. Yeah. It must be quite... You would like it because it's quite therapeutic to make, especially if you do it by hand and you're sort of rubbing in the flour with the butter and stuff. But it does take patience. You've got to do stages of it. You can't rush it. I've attempted it before, but it always seems to split. You're obviously telling me that it's not that bad when it comes to pies, but there are certain dishes that... Yeah, you need to, yeah. And to be honest, you can... I mean, Waitrose do a great ready-made stuff, so you can use that as well if you want to.