Serge Pizzorno gets a kick from our spaghetti all’assassina

0:00Welcome to Gin Mare, a world where time naturally slows down. Expertly crafted with Mediterranean botanicals, rosemary, thyme, basil and arbekina olives. We invite you to savor the moment and share the true Mediterranean spirit. Take time to enjoy your time. Gin Mare, Mediterranean by nature. Available at Vitro, selected stores, subject to availability. Make the moment last and drink responsibly. Over 18s only. Jean Mata is a registered trademark. Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.

0:43Hello and welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I am Nick Grimshaw. And I'm Angela Hartnett. And here we are for another episode of Dish. We are now in mid-summer. Are we past mid-summer? I always feel like August is the middle of the summer, but technically probably not is it what do you like to do in the summer Ange I do love London in the summer because it sort of empties out it's great weather there's always some good gigs on but I do I just want to be by water in the summer by the sea sea or a pool so I have no pool at home so I have to go to the seaside you have to go to the seaside the last time I went to one of the seasides I saw Anthony our sound man did you yeah took a little Elsie, Neil and the dogs all went to Leon C for the day and poor Anthony he thought he was having a nightmare.

1:27We could hear this. Neil! Neil! He was like, what is that? What? What? What's going on? And he goes, oh, no. So we were all there, Leon C. Oh, nice. Love it, Leon C. Love it, yeah. What delightful. Gave Elsie her first Rossi's ice cream. What's a Rossi's? Rossi's is the Italian family that have had an ice cream parlour there since the 60s. And I went as a kid. My grandmother took me. We've all had our Rossi experience. Elsie had her first Rossi's ice cream. Oh, did she like it? Yeah, she loved it. loved it would not let go of it you know when a kid doesn't want to let go of it it's just dripping everywhere and they're just like no let me clean no no that's one of my big no's for becoming a father I'd say what the dirty hand yeah like I can't do anything there's bigger things to worry about than the child it's all like ice cream running down their arm that's your only worry I think that's the least of your problems not on my watch maybe they're gloves maybe it is none of my business yeah maybe not hey today we have a great guest we've got Surge from Kasabian coming to see us they are about to release their ninth album I remember going to see them really really back in the day when they were like a new band and they did a gig in like Warrington in like a music hall it was a bit of a wow moment yeah me and my friend Jenny went we drove over to go see them have you seen them?

2:48I've seen them I went because I know their manager Coini Coini Coini like well actually who knows him better Neil and Coini each other very well. And we were backstage. We were sort of in the, you know, the bit at the side of the stage watching them one. But I can't, I'd like to think it was Victoria Park because it definitely felt outside. I don't know. I mean, you don't know if you were inside or outside. No, I mean, it was outside as in an outside concert. Yeah. But what I mean is I can't remember where and I'm thinking anyway, or maybe it was like Finsbury Park or somewhere like that. Yeah.

3:18I don't know. Well, there's a lot to talk about. The new album. Yeah. We're going to talk to him about fashion. We're going to talk to him about running because it's Keem Runner. But apparently the reason he loves running is because he just watched Forrest Gump. I love that. Run, Forrest, run. And he was like, maybe I'll try it. Like, kind of love that. Before we get surging, though, we want to talk seasonality. Yes. We have two, well, one large watermelon and a tiny baby one as well with it. Why is now such a great time for them? Well, they're ripe, they're ready to go. You need to always look for like a little yellow patch and that shows that they're ripe.

3:54And then when you tap them, it should sound hollow. Oh, yeah. And then that's a sign that they're ripe. That they're ripe. I mean, when we get things like watermelons and pumpkin at work, we sort of do a little cut into there. We can't do that in Waitrose. You can't do that in Waitrose. You'd be banned. But you've seen how nice and bright and red it is. But it's great. It's wonderful because it's a lovely fruit. It quenches your thirst. It's delicious. It's also great in salads with mint, feta, olives. Also, I think great with lime. I think lime and chili, things like that. I think watermelon.

4:30Yeah, look how lovely. They used to have really great duck and watermelon salad. Oh. A place I used to go to. Where was that? In Notting Hill. Oh, very nice. And it was banging. I do like, I think it takes spice. I mean, Lee, our friend's up at Black Axe Mangal, Lee Tern, and he uses watermelon a lot. and I think it just has that lovely thing that it can take a lot of spice, a lot of citrus and it's a great little accompaniment. Yeah. There we go. A ripe watermelon. It had what they call the blossom end which is where obviously the root is and its blossom is and you'll see that sort of yellowness there as well.

5:02Oh yeah. And you should be able to smell it and it should sort of give off this light sweet smell at that blossom end. Actually, yeah. Oh, there you go. Day next time you're in Waitrose picking up your watermelon. Have a smell of that. I don't know if it's just the watermelon off your fingers. No, it does. You can smell it, can't you? Yeah, you do. Okay. There you go. All our facts. Sniff your watermelon next time you're down your waitrose. Yeah. Enough about melons. Shall we welcome Serge? Definitely. Let's welcome our guest. Serge is here to join us on Dish. How are you? You all right? Nice job, mate.

5:33I like you. I like you. We live here. These are all our kids. Busy, isn't it? Yeah, isn't it? Busy. I know. It's really snowballed. Yeah, it is, isn't it? A lot of crew. Are you hungry? Yeah, starting. Right, come on in. Let's get you in and get you a seat. We should begin then, Ange. We should do. We have a man who can whip up a crowd, of course. Definitely. But did you know that he can also whip up a fantastic cooked breakfast? Oh, I did not know. We will discuss it. Please welcome Serge Pizzona, everybody. Hi, Serge. Hi, Serge. Welcome. How are you? Yeah, no, I'm excited. It smells unbelievable already.

6:17It smells good. Oh, bless you. What is going on there? It does smell good. What is going on there? We're making assassina pasta. Oh. Which is, anyway, I'll explain when you eat it. But it's lots of garlic, chilli, tomatoes, all those flavours that you probably grew up smelling all the time. Love that. That's good. We're starting with a little drink. You've gone for a sort of peach and mango sparkling situation. I've got a non-alcoholic spritz. I've got a non-alcoholic beer. Bizarrely with an ice cube in it. With an ice cube in it. It's hot out there. It's nice to have it very chilled. We've got a really nice starter for you.

6:50When we did our food research, you wanted 80's crisps. Is that what I put? Yeah, that's what you put. I read it as things you shouldn't like, but you like. No, that's fine, but you like them though. I'm happy with it. It's a bizarre start. We're the Michelin chef here, and I've got like... I love it, Chris. Is that a monster munch? That's a monster munch. See, wow. I'm so sorry about that. No, don't apologise. That's not the worst thing that we've done here. That was from the 70s, to be fair. 70s, yeah. And these are the shaken back. They're evil, though. Not shaken back. What are those ones to shake?

7:32They still make them. They still make them. Weird. Yeah, did you remember that? Yeah, I used to have them at school and that's a long time ago. Yeah. The little sachet with salt in it. The blue sachet, navy blue. Yeah. If you're feeling dangerous, you just neck the sachet first. Oh, my God. That really is feeling dangerous. You could have sodium levels just like out of control. You'd be like, Serge is nuts. He had the sachet. Straight in. I had a friend that used these as croutons in a pot noodle. Wow. And that's how you met Angie? That's how you met Angie. We've been better friends ever since.

8:05Monster Munch pot noodle. So you just drop the Monster Munch in the top for pot noodling. Oh, delicious, delicious. Go on, Angie, you're going to do a salt and shake? Where's the packet? Oh, here it is. Oh, it's not blue anymore. Oh, live cooking here on the podcast. Here we go. Oh, wow. That is Michelin. So run us through the recipe. That's right. Get in there, try that recipe. Well, do we need to get you more salt? I mean, it's fine, isn't it? It's fine. They're fine. They're fine. I thought they tasted excellent when I was a kid. And now... I used to like Transformer snacks. Do you remember them?

8:41Oh, yeah. Just a love of Transformers. Oh, I love a Transformers. So do you still eat these snacks? No, they're out there. That's it. They're out there. No, no. No, dear. Crisps are gone now. All crisps? Pretty much. That's quite radical. It is. Yeah, I mean, I was obsessed. I still am obsessed. I just love the packets. I love the branding. Love the colours. Did you ever do an Almshaw Maje that thing where you put the crisp packet under a grill and it shriveled to make a little badge? I loved doing that. Do you remember that? Yeah, I loved it. Well, we didn't have the internet, did we? We didn't.

9:13What else? That's all you could do. It looked amazing as a small... Yeah, it did. A little monster. Yeah. And then you put a hole in it and make a keeling out of it. It was amazing. Let's do it today. Let's do it today. That's what chose to be made, like a grilled... Yeah. Grilled baguette crisp. Grilled. Make a keeling. Hey, we should talk about this gig that you've just done this weekend. It's a massive gig in Finchery Park in London. It was like 50 ,000 people there or something like that. I think it's the best gig we've ever played. And that's something after all these years. There were moments when I slipped through the gaps of reality and was just in another universe.

9:50Because you just, I was in the moment, I was there. And everything worked. You know, sometimes you do a show and you can start talking and you're thinking, oh, that is not quite connected. Everything, it just, the band were just in the crowd and the weather. At one point, this heron flew over. the sun was coming down. I just had this moment of like, this is the best ever. Oh, wow. You need a harem. It's beautiful, honestly. It's nice to see. It was over this chaos. It was like complete and utter chaos. Yeah. And this harem just flies. I was like, this is the day. Whatever. Everything was aligned.

10:25The universe aligned today. It was wonderful. And then how's the come down after a show like that when you've come off from 50 ,000 people and it is perfect. How's that night and the next day? It's impossible to sleep. but I mean I'm sure the service is the same right when you've been through when you've just done a good day's work and you get into bed and you're like nah yeah and just like yeah doesn't happen just not just not you know put whatever on yeah just try and sleep not happening sometimes you just you know power through you know Grimmy back in the day you just roll on you just roll on I mean come on sometimes you don't want to stop

11:03yeah but you should yeah but you should Kids, don't do everything we do. Be good. What about this cooked breakfast that we've heard about? Yeah. That's the one thing, the one part of the cooking world that I'm good at breakfast. Yeah, okay. I'm good with any kind of egg you want. Okay, which is your preferred egg? I mean, I keep it simple with a fried egg. I've got a little fried egg pan. Love a fried egg. So simple. Three circles. Yeah. And it just makes the perfect egg. Perfect fried egg. It's just done. That's what I have every morning. A creature of habit, if I could eat the same thing every day, I would.

11:39Someone said, these are the nutrients, minerals you need every day. I would eat that every day. Could you do that, Andrew? I don't think I could. I definitely, a creature of habit, want to wear the same clothes every day. I hate having to think about that. I like to be like Obama and just wear... Yeah. Yeah. Why, what does he wear? No, they say Obama and Steve Jobs always wear the same stuff. Maybe not Obama, but certainly Steve Jobs just always wear a turtleneck, jeans, you know. If you're making decisions all day, it eliminates them. Yeah, I'd just like to wear t-shirt, shorts and Berkies every day.

12:11You can do it. I'm from this bloody podcast, they make me wear shirts. They're not allowed to wear the same shirt more than... Oh, boo. There, do you want this one? Now I'm going to wear that. Now Serge has said, I'm just going to wear this now for eternity. Ozzy Osbourne had that the same... Yeah, the same. I don't think I can do it with food, though. Andy Warhol as well, he had the same outfit. He had the same outfit. Who was that? Andy Warhol. Oh, there you go, you see. It just eliminates choice. Quite a lot of turtleneck people, actually. there's a couple of turtlenecks Andy Warhol and Steve I feel like Steve Ozzy I feel like a Steve yeah it's simple isn't it it refines you our album cover we did turtlenecks and it gives you a sense of you know there's something in it you look pretty good no matter what age you are I don't know if I can do them I don't know if I have the it sort of like brings the chips out but anyway we'll worry about that we'll worry about that another episode we want to do your food likes and dislikes surge.

13:05So there's some good ones to get into it. You love Italian food, you said. Yes. In particular, penne al arabiato. Yes. Yeah, so that's like spicy penne. It's bon, yeah? We're not doing that today but we are doing something similar. We're doing something similar with a spicy tomato sauce. Do you make that yourself? No, no. I'm not that good around there. We have food delivered in a box and it's brilliant because it gives you a little recipe.

14:03Yeah, yeah, yeah. he was just, he was amazing because he owned a bakery. So I was just like, when I was younger, surrounded by this food. I was one of those kids that I was terrible with food. Like, you know, the one that comes around your house and he just goes like, can I just have a bit of bread? Like with no butter on it. Do you know what I mean? You know that kid? I know that kid, yeah. Yeah, like, so I wasn't great. So what, you wouldn't like try stuff or? No, no, no. I was just funny with food. And I got better. In your own house as well, you were like that? No, no, because it was kept to like about five or six dishes, you know what I mean?

14:37As long as they were there, then I'm fine. But like, I was not great. And it's sort of, when I went over to Italy, I remember my uncle make his pesto the first time. I was like, green pasta. I'm like, there's no way. I mean, what is that? Green pasta? No way. But then now I'm like thinking, now I love food. Like now it's like, and when my kids, when they were younger, they weren't, people panic when he, oh, he's not eating his things. it's like it's fine you just when you get older you just don't yeah you'll change maybe it's that bit of a test as well I always think we kids yeah test their parents they're figuring out like you know like what my power is like what will I want to eat you know what's my footing in the house maybe that's true yeah when I think back there your uncle probably cooked one of the best pestos you would ever have eaten in your life most unbelievable ever from the area because it's general where it's all from the Liguria and he baked bread I mean the bread was the bread you know the bread for me is like that's like the ultimate for me I remember saying like it won't be like sex drugs and rock and roll that kill me it'll be bread honestly yeah we were in South Korea and I was playing and this girl had this sign and it just said Sergio I've bought you some bread do you know what I mean you're into bread I'm into bread I love that I'm heavy not throwing their underwear it's just a throwing white baguette just like some sourdough you know what I mean get on it it's never bad it's never bad it also says there that you love Mexican food do you have a spot that you like to go to is there is there like a local that you like do you know what there's only one really and it's in San Francisco not that local not that local but it's so good it's called a taqueria and I I would probably I mean I would go every day if I could and it was just I never really had Mexican food until we recorded West Rider and I just you know I sort of fell in love with it.

16:32And it's just, you know, little tacos, just everything. So good. I also think when they're done well, it's like the best. Ultimate. Yeah, yeah. And the salad, everything. And the spicy margarita. Yes. Now, it says there's no dislikes from Serge. Well, yeah, there's plenty. There's plenty. There's a few, yeah. I didn't realize this got sent to me like before the gig and I was going, I'll do it in the dressing room. And I was going, oh, I can't, I don't know what. You were doing this before you played 50 ,000 people. Like the day before, yeah. So sorry. Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. I've been doing that.

17:06It was, no, no. But I was, so I thought, well, I'll just tell you when I'm there. Yeah. It's a podcast, isn't it, really? Yeah. Yeah. So go on, what are the no-goes? What are you on? The one I can think of that comes to mind is like bean juice is, terrifies me. Yeah. Anyone that serves you beans like with all the juice wants a resting. Right, okay. So like a ragu of wet beans and stuff like that. Okay, got you. I'm not great with like super saucy kind of. Okay, yeah. But just there's something about bean juice. And again, going back to a kid, I remember like you'd get served everything with beans.

17:44You know, fish beans, beans, Kiev beans. And I'd be like, oh, I've got beans. It's going to have sauce on it. And it'd just be dripping it. Get a sieve out. And just siven beans. or now but what's great now is when they introduced especially it got a bit fancy with breakfast and then they come in a pot now which I'm okay with yeah because it's on the side you can just put them there yeah just far enough away and then you can have a little dip if you want yeah too much sauce as well people think they're being generous and I think you're getting it wrong you're just overpowering me that yeah that too much or give you the option on the side that's exactly it yeah I think I want the option yeah I hear when you go out pasta with too much sauce.

18:28Yeah, it's not right. Do you know what I mean? It's just not right, is it? Anything else that we should be wary of? I make plane food. I don't go near that. On the aeroplane? Just aeroplane food. As soon as you smell that foil, you can feel it coming out of the kitchen. You can feel that microwave. Whatever's in that. It always tastes the same. Yeah. So you must be never off a plane. Just never do it. So long haul, will you bring some fruit or nuts or something. Yeah, some built-on. Okay, yeah, something like that. Get some protein in the bag. That's quite good though. That's properly, yeah. Because also the salt level, they really season it on the plane because your salt level is changing out.

19:10There's something in that that's just bad. I think I'm really sensitive to smell like because I've got an extreme reaction to smell and taste. That's interesting because I feel like I can, not to be gross on a food podcast, but when I open the door in the bedroom like when I wake up in the morning I'm like the bin needs emptying I could smell it whereas Mish would happily like be in the kitchen like empty that bin I have a strong sense of smell excuse me a moment my sister's friend used to be able to tell when a fox had been in a garden from scent alone yeah I think I could probably do that too yeah well should we test it out let's go outside and get it to smell the car park and see how long ago a fox was in there.

19:56So they're the dislikes, so we need to know that. Now, food-wise, when I think of Leicester, I actually think of Kasabian. I feel like you've cemented yourselves in Leicester. But food in Leicester is good sources of stuff there. Leicester cheese. Red Leicester, yeah. Red Leicester cheese. Walker's crisps. Fantastic. And the Meltemowbray pie. Yes. That's good. I like all three. Yeah. It's a ploughman's lunch, essentially. That is beautiful, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, all great stuff. Like a band rider. We have to have all three on the... No matter where we go in the world. Yeah. I have to be... As you should.

20:31You know what I mean? As you should, yeah. Yeah. So you are sort of not the household cook. You sort of leave that. Yeah. You do the breakfast. I do the morning. Make sure everyone's set up. Yeah, everyone's set up. If you had to, what would be your go-to if there was like... If me and Ange were coming for tea? I'd keep it to pasta. I think I'd just do it... I'd figure out a pomodoro. because I think simple Italian food, just I'd source the ingredient. That's where I'd win you over. I think so. I'd get the tomatoes shipped in. Yeah. I wouldn't be no local. Do you know what I'm saying? I'd go deep on them tomatoes, deep on the garlic, and the salt would be from, you know, the Andes or whatever.

21:11Do you know what I'm saying? I'd get like, I'd go like very few ingredients, but all the best I could get. All the best. That's the right way to do it, though. Do you know what I mean? and I think I can get away with just not being great. But the ingredients, you'll be like, oh, them tomatoes, you shipped them in from Sicily. Straight from Sicily. Cost me a fortune though. Yeah, really expensive meal. What about when you are out and about on tour? Are you someone that likes to seek out restaurants and like, oh, we're here, we should definitely go to this place or we should eat locally. Is that something that you think about on tour?

21:43Yeah, I suppose there's a few phases. Like the first phase when we first started, we were terrifying like it was like just bad I mean Burger King KFC Little Chef I mean we used to take a microwave on tour this is so bad yeah so if we were playing like Romania or somewhere you know like or even Japan we'd take microwave and then take like Marks and Spencer's like canned food and then we'd sit in a hotel room round the microwave round the microwave it's bad that isn't it yeah yeah No, we shouldn't try this Japanese poutine. We'll be fine. Let's get some beef randang down. We'll be fine. We'll be all right.

22:26And then did it change? Did you start thinking? Yeah, then it was like, well, if we carry on like this, we're going to die. Yeah, it's not going to be good. It's bad. So then it was like, well, we should probably figure out, you know, eating. And then we, you know, sort of venture out. And then now, now eating is such a big part of, like, we all go out, we all eat together. We find a couple of the lads really like food so they'll be like oh you know we'll go here you know we tend to find some really nice spots oh no and can you leave it to someone else to like figure out the spots yeah yeah that's nice to do yeah yeah food's amazing like I was thinking about it on the way here I'm thinking about my aunt is roast potatoes and she passed away recently it was beautiful it made me emotional thinking about it but you know like a roast potato can just remind you of someone forever and it's like what an amazing thing like That about food is, my gran used to make this like Yorkshire pudding, but she'd put all of the food inside the pudding.

23:25I've never seen it done like that since. So you sort of, the plate would almost be like a Yorkshire pudding. So I was thinking, you know, when I've had the Yorkshire, I think I'm eating that. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of like, you know, as great and as crazy and as mad restaurants you can go to and as opulent as it can be. I just find, you know, if I have pesto, it'd be my uncle, do you know what I mean? Yeah. I love that. I think that's the beautiful thing about food. I think exactly what you said, Serge. It's just, it's about memories for me. It's never about necessarily the dish. It's about who you ate the dish with, where it was from, who made it.

23:59I mean, my all-time favourite dish is a dish my grandmother always made, which we always have at Christmas called annalini. And it's just pasta in a broth. And it's just the best thing. And it always, and we get, we always talk emotionally about desserts because my grandmother, she was a great cook, but she never did desserts. and so when you make something, you say, oh, Nonna used to love that. And it's always about being with your family and evoking all that sort of thing. So, Ange, tell us what we've got here, please. What have we got going on? This looks great. So we've got spaghetti alla assassina with burrata and duya crumb.

24:31Oh, wow. And the difference with this, so in a way it's an arrabbiata because it's lots of chilli in there, lots of garlic in there, it's a tomato sauce. But the difference is, rather than cooking your pasta in water and adding it to the sauce, you cook it in the sauce. So you start in the pan. Oh, thank you, Serge. That is a maestro at work, that is. Wow. Oh, bless. Wow, that is good. Yeah. It's spicy, no? Is it hot? Yeah, I like it. Yeah, good. And there's parmesan there if you'd like some. So you do the dried pasta. So you basically start in a pan, some olive oil in the pan, add your garlic, dried chili, and fresh chili, if you really want to make it nice and whole.

25:09That's good. Then you add your pasta into that base of chili, garlic and olive oil and just coat the pasta in there. Then you add your tinned tomato. So as you were saying, a really good quality tinned tomato. Alongside it, you've got some boiling water that has tomato puree in it. So you like making a risotto in a way and you just keep adding bits of the stock into it to cook the pasta. But the key is as well is to let it cook in that tomato so it starts to go crispy. So when you're eating it, you should have some soft bits of pasta. Some even burnt bits of pasta. And so it should be crunchy, soft, a little bit spicy, all of those.

25:47Yeah, chewy, chard. I love this. Yeah. And then on top, we have some breadcrumbs with andouja and then a little bit of burrata as well. I think the burrata's there to just calm down. It's spicy in your mouth. Angela, this is really good. It is art, isn't it? When you sort of, it's just art, isn't it? It is art. No, art. Art. Oh, it is art, yeah. I thought you were saying it is art. I was like, it is art. It is. It is art. It is art. It is art. Is that my Leicester accent? It actually is art. Yeah. Remember the way you just explained it and the way it looks, you just go, yeah, that is like, that's majestic.

26:25It's really cool to make. I've never made this before, so I'm really excited. It all seems to have worked out. It's great. If I ever burn anything now, I'll just be like, you know what? You know what? That's what it's supposed to be like. It's actually an old Sicilian method, actually. actually, yeah. The origins are from the south. So from Puglia is where the dish comes from. And they reckon it was something like that, just made in a restaurant, they're thinking, they just came together. So I think the 1960s, yeah. It's interesting texture. Yeah, I love it. I think it's good that it's spicy. Yeah.

26:56You've got that creamy sauce, but then it's also like, the pasta's got crunch. Not a crunch, but like a toughness to it. It's good. I like it. Thank you, man. This is amazing. Thank you. I feel like this is one you should stick on the menu, Ange. Yeah. And I like that it's hot. Yeah. The spice is important, I think. Yeah, for sure. There's a drink called, I think it's called Picoso. It's a soft drink. On tour, I don't drink on tour. I'm leading up to a tour. Just keep it beast mode, you know what I mean? Keep it like focused. And I found these drinks. They only make two. I love a brand that just goes, all right, we do two things in this.