Sir Grayson Perry, smashed cucumber and steak noodle salad and a beer

17:38Nick:So rump steak is great, also sirloin. Cut it against the grain and then saute it in a wok if you've got it, ideally. Perfect, so it's quick, quick. And how long for? A couple of minutes, that's it, done. That's very nice. Do you like that, Grayson? I mean, I used to be kind of like, oh, I can afford a fillet. but then I got a bit bored of it. It's not the best cup. No. No. I do prefer the other cups. Yeah, exactly. And the ribeye even better because you've got all that lovely fat going through it. You want that moisture, you see. That's it. And the flavour. Anything with the fat's got flavour.

18:06Nick:Don't let anyone tell you anything else. I'm very hit or miss with the steak, but this is here. You like that. Good. This is very tasty, Ange. Thank you. Jump me through how we'd make this at home. So you cook your noodles, refresh them so they don't continue. Wash all the starch off. You've smashed your cucumber and that's in its marinade of honey, rice wine vinegar, sesame, soya. You take cornflour and five-spice seasoning, mix that, you know, season up your meat with that, and then you fry it off your meat. Touch of soya in there, and then you mix it all together, and then you've got your salad.

18:39And what about the wine pairing then?

18:41Nick:So, South African wine, Albert Road, a Pinot Noir. It's nice. I like a kind of, I don't want anything from a red wine that's too sharp. I remember when I was, you know, talking of class, when I was a teenager, I had a very, very posh girlfriend. And I used to kind of have my tea back at home. So, you know, when I was in a five meals a day type of thing, I'd have my tea and I'd get on my motorbike and putt, putt, putt over to the next village and have supper with my girlfriend. And they would always have wine. They lived in Tudor Manor House. And we'd always have nice wine. And so I sort of started, oh, actually, I quite like wine.

19:15Because it only had rough wine up to then. And I suddenly, oh, actually, I quite like wine. Yeah. I like this vintage wine. If you want to try this recipe or any that we do on Dish, waitrose.com forward slash Dish Recipes, they are all on there. Do you have a favourite restaurant? Do you have a place that you'd love to return to go that you always think hits the spot? I've had some amazing meals over the years, you know, travelling and I hang out with a lot of rich people, so that's good. I'm sure it's good. Bye, bye. So, I mean, my local restaurant near to where I live is Morro. Oh, lovely, yeah.

19:49In Edsworth Market. So I'd probably go there more than I, because I just like looking at all the young people walk past. Yeah. On a summer's evening. I like sitting outside, having a nice meal, and watching the people go past. But yeah, I've been spoiled in terms of food over the years. Grace and Perry, we come to your fast food quiz. Tell us your favourite way to eat eggs. Oh, I like a boiled egg, just a classic one, you know. It's surprising how lovely a properly cooked... Soft boiled egg? Soft, yeah. I would have it definitely on the runny side with soldiers. A twinkling of salt. Nice. Your favourite sandwich, Phil-in?

20:24Probably a really good cheddar cheese and plenty of veg, like a good tomato and a bit of nice crunchy lettuce, onion and a bit of pickle, but maybe mango chutney or maybe a chilli chutney or something. Oh, right. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, mango chutney and cheddar sandwich. Yeah, it works. I made my own sandwiches when I go to work. Usually something like that. For a few years, I worked making sandwiches in a hairdresser's on the King's Road. I did too. Yes, I love making sandwiches. I made Silla Black a sandwich. Oh, my God. Don't forget the turn of rice. That is it. Yes, that's the turn of rice.

21:02You made Silla Black a sandwich. Amazing. Oh, my God. Anyone who had a heart.

21:11Favourite form of potato? Baked. You know, you've got the inside with nice batter you put on it or whatever. Soaks up, whatever you're with. And then it's got the skin. If it's nice, you know, you've got a sort of second. I like a baked potato. Bit of an event as well. You've got to really go for it for a few hours. It's easy as well. You just bang it in and you know you've started cooking. Yeah. Two hours later. Because you can't procrastinate because the baked potato's off. Favourite pasta dish? I do like spaghetti. Yeah. I think you can't beat a classic. because I like the fact, I mean, I don't know if I'm, I might be wrong with this, Angela, but in Italy, that's the one sort of pasta that an Italian will eat from dried, yeah?

21:50Yeah, yeah, yeah. From dried, yeah. I like that. I know, because I quite, so I like, because often I get pasta and it's a bit, you know. Yeah. And so I like the fact that it's still got a bit of...

22:02Nick:Dente, al dente, yeah. And it works with the best sauces, you know, tomato sauce, bongolet, yeah. Yeah. Favourite Sunday roast? I do, I mean, I do like a kind of sous vide lamb. A sous vide lamb? What sous vide? You surprise me. Yeah, where it's really falling off the bone sort of type of thing. So really slow cooked, yeah, yeah. Like a shoulder of lamb or something. Yeah, but then I quite like pork with apple sauce as well. Love pork with apple sauce. You know, my teeth aren't quite up to crackling anymore. What would you say is your favourite kitchen utensil? Bottle opener.

22:45Nick:Best answer so far to the nucleus. Across the board. I love it. The tour's called Are You Good? Yeah. How are you feeling about the tour? And now we're, you know, a bit of a way out. I mean, I'm feeling quite good because I think it's going to be fun. I'm actually the least prepared I've ever been. But I think that's a good thing because when I go on tour and I do kind of, like last time I did like 30 dates, I hate myself when I feel I'm getting slick. Oh, you want a bit of chaos. I want a little bit of chaos and a little bit of fun. But I think the audience likes that too. They like to feel they're in the moment.

23:18Yeah, of course. And it's nice to see something real. Yeah. So I don't learn it. I don't learn the show. What I do is I just put together a very, very long PowerPoint and that kind of cues me up to talk about certain things. I mean, lots of jokes. So lots of audience participation. I ask the audience, you know, what they think about certain things. Yeah. And a few songs. Yeah. But that gives me a structure where I can kind of, if I fancy going off on one end, losing my temper a bit or something, you know, I can do that. Yeah. That's good. That's a good place. So then you've still got the PowerPoint to bring you back in where you can wander off.

23:53Yeah, exactly. And you just click on the next slide when you feel yourself dry enough. Yeah. That's a good way to do it. My producer sometimes said, that was an hour and 15 first half. That's a bit longer. A bit long for one slide. And it's about finding out if people are good or if actually they're evil. Well, I cover both bases. You're both bases. Yeah, well, goodness can be a little bit kind of, what can I say, a bit dishraggy. Right, right, right, right. A bit earnest. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A bit kind of like slightly overwashed linen. Yeah.

24:26Nick:Well, that's why we always like the baddie in a show, don't we? We always sort of veer towards that person in that show we're looking. We like them. We're attracted to the bad boy. Yeah. You said there's song in it. The song is that you're singing. Yeah, I always write some songs. Yeah, I love singing. Because you like singing because you're the mass singer. I did, yeah. I loved it. And how did that happen? Did they just ring you? Well, you just heard that I like singing. They were very keen. So they asked me one year and I was actually on tour, so I couldn't do it. So I said, yeah, definitely do it next year.

24:55And so they called me up again. And we had an absolutely lovely time. It was such fun. Yeah. And I beat Macy Gray. Yes! Didn't she walk off in a hall? Oh, she was in such a huff. I love it. The moment of the series, basically, the moment of the series, was when she took the mask off and her face was like thunder, like this. It was like, because I think she had won the American one. Oh, right, okay. But I don't think necessarily that the Masked Singer at US is the same as the British version, because in Britain we know it's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's brilliant about it is it's a superbly crafted enthusiastic piece of ridiculousness.

25:33Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas in America, they might have thought it was a singing competition.

25:38Nick:They're like, this is quite normal. It's going to change my career. I like that. Well, if you want to see Grayson sing on tour, amongst other things, tickets for Are You Good are on sale right now and it's going to be from October the 7th right through to December the 7th. We were talking before about the Turner Prize and what it means for an artist to win a prize or even the idea of giving a prize to art. It was 22 years ago when you won the Turner Prize and it was quite a huge breakthrough because you were the first potter to win the prize. Presented by Sir Peter Blake. How was it for you? How did it feel to be up for the Turner Prize?

26:19How was it to win the Turner Prize? I mean, it was really in its pomp at that moment. The art world was really flourishing in London. London was the centre of the art world And so it was a huge thing, you know. We'd have like a kind of half an hour show on the show. It was on the tenet. Yeah, yeah. And it was big. So when you got nominated, it was like, oh, wow, this is it. You know, you just get that platform and you get the exhibition of the Tate Gallery and that's very exciting. So I sort of thought, that's great, and then maybe winning will be like the icing on the cake. Yeah, sure. But then when I won, which I didn't expect to do, it was sort of like, oh, I see you get the whole cake shop.

26:57Nick:And a baker in a van. Yeah, exactly. So it was really amazing, yeah, and being me wearing a frock and everything, I got a lot of publicity, but it was all good. Pretty much all the, you know, I was getting positive write-ups right across the press from sort of left to right, and it was really funny. And, you know, it was a good moment. It's about publicity. All competitions are basically PR jobs for the sector, you know, of their culture, whether it be the Oscars or the Booker Prize or whatever. I think the sort of cultural landscape has changed because, you know, when I was growing up, the art world was in some ways very much at sort of, you know, the cutting edge of culture.

27:38And I don't know if it is anymore. You know, I think the cutting edge is probably somewhere out there in kind of online culture somewhere with, you know, AI or something. I think they're really kind of like people who are pushing what it means to be creative are probably somewhere else now. And it's changed hugely.

27:56Nick:Because it was when it was all that Britpop sort of era bit, when you had the sensation exhibition, you know, and the Sarch. You know, that's when you felt art was, like, everywhere. Yeah. And it was all there. Brian Eno has a phrase. He calls it seniors. Yes. Which is seniors. So you think of sort of like Paris, 1905. Yes. Or kind of like New York, 1953. Yeah. You know, or whatever. And it would be a coming together of a group of creative people and the energy of a place or whatever. Yeah, of course. But I don't know if that happens anymore because we live in a digital world. How do you feel about a prize for art in general?

28:33Because I remember, do you remember when Madonna gave out the award? Oh, yeah. She gave out the Turner Prize and I can't remember now because now I've had two beers. She's a fan of mine. Yeah, I bet. She came to my show recently, yeah. Yeah, I saw a post about it. Have you ever crossed paths with her? No. I saw she loved your show and posted all about it, which is mad because she doesn't post stuff apart from like herself look it's me Madonna well I'm under the radar you know hey you know I'm a sleeper kids I'm under the radar but I may be cool

29:06Nick:she's a white hat but she's a huge art fan and she always obviously references it but I remember the speech that she gave but she was basically like saying like should what's going to happen to these artists when they win a prize are they going to make better art probably not oh I did for me it was great yeah I've done my best dance since. Did you? Yeah, I did. But did prize winning or being recognised make you make better art? Well, it gives you more opportunities. Right. And you get a little bit more confidence. Yes. And you get a bit more money, so therefore you can put your money into your work.

29:41Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I feel like I've done my best work since I won. Yeah. And also, you beat the other people. Because, you know, there's this idea that culture is like, oh, we're all in this together. It's a community.

29:57Nick:Bollocks.

30:03Nick:That's how it should be when people accept rewards. I'll beat you all. I'd had a few beers, obvs, and I won a, I think it was National Television Award, and I was up against, like, one of those nature documentaries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I got up on the stage when I won, and I said, yeah, take this, David Attenborough.

30:27Nick:The only one to slay a national icon. Hey, we love him. He can take it. He's got big shoulders. Now, you don't know about Grace and Anson, maybe. Because we were saying that there's something that, I don't know, you two may align in some way. Oh, really? Apart from growing up in Essex. Well, yeah, there's Essex. There's incredible imagination and creativity, of course. I wanted to ask you my biggest problem, procrastination. Is procrastination part of the part of it or how do you avoid it? I'm a kind of office hours sort of person, but I'm on all the time. So I quite often get my sketchbook out while I'm watching the TV.

31:10But you've just got to commit. I mean, there's this idea and I think the internet has sort of fed into this idea that sort of somehow there's a perfect thing to do. and there was a moment I was teaching some fashion students a year or two ago and this student came in and I looked at her drawings and I sort of went, hmm, something funny going on here. I said, and she was covered in really like strong tattoos, right, really graphic tattoos. And I said, and the drawing looked like she'd kind of got a 6H pencil and kind of like turned her back on it and kind of put this lightest little scribble on the page.

31:46And I sort of held it next to her arm and said, You seem perfectly happy in kind of like committing this stuff to your body, but you can't seem to commit to a bit of A4 paper, you know. And it's like I always draw with a pen because I think you've just got to go for it because you realise there is no perfect thing to do. And you've just got to do it and you work it and you change it. But you've got to make a start. You've just got to put that thing in and have that confidence of doing the first thing. And there is no perfect thing. And you aren't going to make mistakes. And some of the stuff you do is going to be rubbish.

32:18and that's fine because every artist does rubbish stuff and that's okay. That's the process. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with being, you know, average. It's fine. If you enjoy doing it, do it because it's good for you. Do you, Grayson, like to go to galleries and shows and look at other artists? I used to go more. I'm too busy these days. I used to have like whole days where I'd go and do and sort of catch up on what was going on but I'm just so busy now. But do you miss that though?

32:46Nick:Were they great times that you just had a bit of alone time and it felt good? I don't know. I think I'm very much harder to impress now. Wow. Yeah, I think I'm becoming a jaded old arsehole.

33:00Yeah, it's funny. But that's the nature of getting old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's like for you. And also you're allowed to be, I think. Yeah. You've done the groundwork. You don't want to say, I've seen that before. Yeah, yeah. But it's very often, you know, I go into a gallery and I kind of go, yeah, it's quite a good version of that. I think in some ways we're addicted to novelty and experimentation. I would rather have quality. When I go into an art exhibition, I don't think about, oh, I want to see something experimental and novel that's broke the boundaries and is the clacking edge or whatever.

33:30I don't want to see that. What I want to see is something that's really good quality, whether it's 1 ,000 years old or whether it was made yesterday. I want to see something that has the aesthetic sensitivities and it's really sophisticated and beautifully made. And I think that that is often this kind of fixation, this fetish of novelty has driven culture through the 20th century. And I think now we should all settle down and get a bit more mature about it and start thinking, was that actually any good though? So anything with the word experimental in front of it, I often kind of go, avoid, red flag.

34:09Experimental theatre. No! What it means is boring.

34:18Do you do that though, Ange? Do you go and try new spots? Because there must be like, in art, the same as food, there must be like new trends or the new thing.

34:27Nick:You do, you go and try new restaurants if you want to do it. But I don't want to be that person. I refuse to be that. I go and take my camera out every time I go out to eat food. I can't deal with that. Because I think I just want to enjoy the time and have, you know, enjoy the company, whoever I'm with and just have a good time. But I sort of think the great thing, like, when you, as you say, like, I, the other day, I was up in Cheshire and I've been desperate to go to Crosby Beach to see the Anthony Gordon. Oh, yeah, that's right. And for years, because it's been there for years and I suddenly was there.

34:56Nick:I made myself two hours late for lunch to do this detour because I thought that has just been one of those things I wanted to cross up. And you look at it, you know, it's metal figurine or figures in the sea, but it was stunning. And that's the art. You sort of, as you say, it's that longevity. I think it's one of the best public sculptures in Britain. It's amazing. I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, I would never, I've been asked to do public sculpture. I've never done it. There's so many issues like health and safety, not offending anyone, all that kind of stuff. But I think that, you know, that is a really good piece of public sculpture.

35:28It's lovely. Grayson, we have the end of the show question here for your chance to win this Wectro's goodie bag. I'm all for it. I really want it. Full of stuff. Oh, look at that. Now you're making me want to win it now. I'm like, you know, I've become... Yeah. I've become passionate. Yeah, passionate.

35:48Nick:Oh, don't become passionate. Don't become passionate, Gracie. Do you want to grace it? Do you want to grace it? For the waitress goodie bag, please, could you paint a mental picture of what you would consider the perfect pie? Ooh, the perfect pie. Well, one of my stipulations would be that it has pastry underneath as well as on the top. I think it's just a con. Con. You know, if you get a pie at a restaurant and it's just got pastry over the top, it's a lie. It's not a pie. It's got a pastry underneath it. Soaked in things. So pastry underneath. Pastry top and bottom. Yes. It's got a nice shiny, someone's done a bit of egg brushing on there.

36:27Egg brushing, yeah. And then what would I want inside? I would want it to be super moist so it really soaks into the crust, you know, like plenty of gravy. and probably just going to be a classic, you know, like a steak and kidney. Okay. I mean, it might have, I mean, they do this whole thing, ale, but I'm never quite sure what that really means.

36:51Nick:I just think it's a hipster affectation. I'm with you. I'm going to write that any time for the long time, that's a hipster affectation. But I often, you know, it's the pastry and the kind of insides, it's that combo that you want. It's the ratio, yeah. Yeah, it's the ratio, because you don't want to feel like you're just eating a stew. Because I'm one of those people, when I'm eating, that I will save a little bit of that and a little bit of that and a little bit of that and a little bit of that to make sure my last mouthful or two mouthfuls are kind of representative of the whole meal. That's good.

37:20Is that a good description, Ange? Definitely, I can do that. All right, the goodie bag is yours, Grayson Perry. The goodie bag is Grayson. Grayson, that was so fun. Thank you, you're amazing. I love that. I love that so much. are you good on tour from the 7th of October to the 7th of December we've got to go we're going we've got to go a round of applause to the incredible Grayson Perry everybody Grayson thank you

37:46Nick:thank you so much I love that oh hello it is us again we are here at the end of your Dish episode like dessert if you will okay we've got this email from Kerry who got in touch with us dish at waitrose.co.uk by the way if you want to get in touch saying Hi, Dish team. I wanted to send a very big thank you. I've just finished walking the Camino de Santiago. Oh, wow. 280 kilometers from Porto to Santiago. And I had the Dish podcast in my ears every single day. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I'm already a weekly listener. But for the Camino, I decided to go back to the very beginning and listen to every single episode, start to finish.

38:27It became such a highlight of the walk. And honestly, I don't think those weeks would have been the same without it. So thank you for keeping me company and making the kilometers fly by. Wow. As a chef myself, walking that far gave me plenty of time to think about food, which brings me to my question. When you travel, how do you approach food? Do you make a point to explore the local cuisine or do you prefer to use local ingredients and cook in?

38:50Nick:Both, I think. Definitely, well, a lot of the time we're choosing our holiday base. Like if we go to Japan, it's because we want to eat the food as much as see the culture. And to be fair, I don't eat in in Japan. I don't go to the fish market and cook. But if I go to Italy, I would go to local restaurants and I would buy food from Narkia and cook at home. Yeah. I think I'd do the first option, go and try restaurants. Explore the culture. Yeah. I hate cooking on holiday, if I'm honest. Oh, yeah. Fair enough. I actually don't hate cooking on holiday. I hate washing up on holiday. Oh, yeah, yeah.

39:21Nick:Fair enough. Yeah, all that. This is not now. No, I don't need it. Do this at home. I don't mind. Well, to be fair, it's always a load of us. Yeah, if you've got drinks, all right. End up never cooking, to be fair. Yeah. So I do a little bit of organisation, wander off, read my book. That's the way to do it, Kerry. It's the Angela way. Well, thank you for your question, Kerry. No more Dish for this week, but we will be back next week. Next week. See you then.

39:49If you are feeling hungry after that episode, follow Dish on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok to see Angela in action making each of these weekly recipes. If you want to take them on, I'm the kind of cook that needs the visual. I have to watch a chef doing it for me to attempt it.

40:06Nick:If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to Waitrose.com forward slash Dish recipes for all the ingredients and the recipes. If you do want to get in touch, please do. Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to dish at waitrose.co.uk. Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production Waitrose, the home of food lovers