Ep. 253-MY PATH! CRO of Vox Media: 400M Followers & 36M Monthly Podcast Downloads🫨 Geoff Schiller: Chief Revenue Officer [NEW SERIES: My Path: How they got here and YOU CAN TOO!]

0:08Welcome to Do This Not That, the podcast for marketers. You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately. You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins, and pitfalls to avoid. We'll also dig into life, pop culture, and the chaos that is our everyday. I'm Jay Schwetelson. Let's do this, not that.

0:40We are back for Do This, Not That, presented by Maribold. And today we're launching a new series. It is called My Path. It's all about how people that are successful in sales and marketing, how do they get to where they are? Because nobody really starts out and ends up in the place they think they're going to wind up and do and all this stuff. And there is nobody better to start this series with than the guests that we have today. So we got Jeff Schiller. Who's Jeff Schiller? Well, maybe you know him. He's the chief revenue officer at Vox Media. Now, you got to be living under a rock if you don't know Vox.

1:14I mean, they have 132 million people that they reach on their platform. They have 400 million social media flowers. They have New York Magazine and The Verge and The Cut. And their podcast network gets over 36 million monthly downloads, which is just crazy. And Jeff is the chief revenue officer. It's all his fault. So Jeff, welcome to the podcast. Jay, so happy to be here. So happy to see you. Thank you for giving all the flowers to Vox Media, but I want to give you some. You are a legend in the industry and a legend to me. So I appreciate that. You just need to get out more. That's all I know from that.

1:53So yes, I've known Jeff for, I don't even want to say how many years, but a really long time, right? And so back when neither one of us knew what the hell we were going to do for a living. And so today we're talking about your path. You got this really cool job now, hanging out with all these cool people, doing all this cool stuff. But you didn't just wake up when you were at the University of Florida and say, that's going to be my plan. Vox Media, I'm going to crush it there. So I want to know, how did this – well, first of all, what do you do for a living? Am I right? And then how did it start?

2:25So I look after the advertising business for Vox Media. So that's everything from standard tactical display, video, audio media to branded content, branded written, short form, long form documentaries, and events, basically any form of advertising revenue across the entire portfolio of our dot com brands, as well as our podcast network. So So the strategy, the pricing, the packaging, all of those things fall under the remit of CRO at Vox Media. It's all your fault. All my fault. One throat to choke. So yeah, so that's what I do as far as to your point, like how did I get here? I think what's really interesting to your point is like one unique thing about advertising is most people didn't say they want to be in advertising, but the skills that you pick up along the way sometimes cast the die for you to be perfect in advertising.

3:32So for me, it was like being very passionate about people and relationships. And like I was a political science major in college. And so, you know, a lot of understanding even back to college, how things move in the world applies to our business because when it comes down to it, it's all about relationships. But I definitely saw that I had a knack for solving problems, which, you know, as fraternity brothers, there was always lots of problems to solve. As fellow chancellors, there were always lots of problems to solve. And like, so the sum total before I started my career of these personal experiences around either leading or relationships or understanding dynamics of how the world works all lend themselves to the advertising business, which is built on relationships.

4:29It's built on understanding value and conveying value and negotiating and all of the things that you would do if you were, you know, in other industries. So it was definitely nonlinear. I did not wake up and say, yes, advertising, and I'm going to go on this path. I had an amazing time in Florida, graduated. I really thought I was going to be in the entertainment business and did that for a hot minute. And maybe I could have gone in that direction if I didn't wind up having to sleep on somebody's futon in L.A. with no car for three months during pilot season. Maybe it wouldn't have turned me off.

5:13But I always loved entertainment. And when we graduated, this was back when you would go on Hot Jobs and Monster.com. There was a job at the E-Channel for E-Online. And I've always been an early adopter. So again, in like the realm of things that make you right for advertising, if you like innovation, you're an early adopter, big checkmark. So always been an early adopter. This was, hey, come join E! Online, be at the forefront of the digital evolution and help us manifest the E! Channel online. Didn't know anything about media. Didn't know a CPM. Didn't know an impression. Nothing. And so I took that job and kind of learned as I went how to have a CPM calculator at my desk for like the first year.

6:01You know, literally knew nothing. And I just found that I loved the industry. I loved creative. I was so naive when I was like a little kid. I was like, TV networks are so cool. They're free. And I never really connected the dots that commercials are the reason for TV networks existing. It's not the other way around. And so, but I always loved great commercials and great creative. And I loved campaigns that were out in the wild that made a difference. Taglines, I love movie taglines, but obviously brand taglines as well. And so as I spent time at the e-channel understanding just like the baseline of the advertising business, I knew at that point, like that is why it made sense for me.

6:51this is where I want to be. And I sort of charted a course for getting from here to there, which would be from sales assistant at eOnline 24 and three quarters years ago to chief revenue officer of Vox Media. So that is the initial, like, how did I get in and, you know, the why behind it. So, okay, you're at eOnline, you got your CPM calculator, you have no idea what's going on. okay and now they're like you're gonna do sales you have to generate sales i mean now you're not doing marketing and advertising yeah making commercials seems like fun but you have to sell stuff like were you good at sales are you just some sort of like you know glenn gary glenn ross you're just crush it at sales or did you have to figure that out i definitely had to figure it out I don't think most of us are like generally likable.

7:45Maybe not you, but most of us. No, you're the most. Literally, I'm going to give another plug. Jay is literally the best human. I worshipped him in college. I thought he was the coolest guy ever. But most of us are likable. And so that's like the underpinning of why anyone in sales is successful. Are you likable? Secondarily, like in our everyday civilian lives, we tell stories. Some of us are horrible storytellers. I've always been like a good one. I could carry a conversation with, you know, a brick wall. And so a lot of those personal attributes and personality traits just lent themselves to me being able to form relationships.

8:27And then I've always been a curious person. So lots of questions. There are people that just talk. I usually do more listening than talking. at least at first. And so I found it really easy to sell because I looked at it as a human interaction, not as a transaction. And there was a component of I just wanted to work harder than everybody else and, you know, have a chip on my shoulder and advance faster and do all the things. But I wouldn't have been successful if I read it from a manual. You know, it's like that scene in The Karate Kid where Ralph Macchio is trying to do karate from a book, you know, versus Mr.

9:06Miyagi like teaching him and it never works. You have to be authentic. So I think that is a big part of why sellers are either successful or unsuccessful. So if I'm out there right now and I'm in a sales job, right? A selling media of some kind. And I'm like, I hate this. I suck at this. I don't even like, you know, doing whatever. Is it like an instant, relatively instant thing that, you know, okay, this isn't my gig, I got to pivot? Or is selling media something that you can really grow to love over time? How quickly would you tell somebody to pivot out of sales in media if they don't like it?

9:45I mean, did you know immediately? I did know immediately because I think my sector, generally speaking of publishing or whatever you want to call it, non-platform media is built on things that I love personally. So I would say first and foremost, you'll know you'll love it immediately as if it's merging what you like to read, watch, listen to with what you're selling. So if that's divergent, then you're not, it's going to take a little bit longer. But for me, it was immediate because I was like, oh, I love movies. I love TV. I love music. Like, great. I'm doing these things. That's always been a thread at all of the places that I've worked at.

10:28There's always been something that I hung on to. And I would say for those people out there that are questioning, is this right for me? If they're not doing something that they're interested in, and it seems like a slog, then that is a one, you know, a red flag or like a sort of moment of pause that they should take and say, you know what, like, yeah, I'm not passionate about what I'm doing. And I'm not seeing results. That said, if it's they're passionate about it, and they're not seeing results, then I would give it more time and I would really be introspective and say, what am I missing? Am I doing being too clinical?

11:05Am I not asking enough questions? Like I do think a lot of success is driven by treating your job, at least through sales, as an investigative reporter. I should go into a conversation with you knowing who, what, when, where, why, and how. If I go in cold, I'm not making good use of your time. And so some of the skills can be taught. The passion really can't be taught. So if the passion is there, but the skills aren't, and they're not seeing results, I think give it some time, make sure that those things that I mentioned are being sort of deployed properly. And usually you'll see results. Some people are resistant, and they don't want to take feedback, and they don't see the results.

11:48And then they wind up sort of spinning out of the job anyway. But for anyone that is in that mode of like, I love what I do, but I'm not that good at it, it's worth asking those questions. Like how am I approaching it and what's falling off and how do I fix it? So along the lines of trying to kind of better yourself and uplevel your skills and stuff, you hire a lot of people, right? I mean, I can only imagine the amount of people you've interviewed and considered and whatever for all sorts of different roles, especially sales roles. What is like the secret sauce? Somebody sits down with Jeff and they do this, it's going to help, or they do this and that's it, they're gone.

12:26Like, what are you looking for when you're interviewing somebody? When I'm interviewing, for me, it's the behaviors, what they talk about. It's not the who, it's like, it's what they talk about and how they talk about the job. It's their strategy. I wanna know, are they strategic? Are they strategically aggressive, not aggressive? Do they have a plan? Are they methodical? It's all of these buzzwords that if they mention those things and they say, this is how I go to market, this is how I organize myself, major checkboxes for yes. If they speak through the lens of jargon and talk about whatever nonsense, our industry is obviously the best at creating jargon.

13:13And it's like a shallow, thin layer of profiling that you can get from that person. Then that's when my spider sense goes off. And I'm like, yeah, no, this person is saying the right things, but they actually don't know how to do them. For me, when I lead the teams that I lead, I always talk about this notion of actions are equal to results. And obviously, that might be a little counterintuitive in sales because sales is inherently results driven. But I firmly believe if you take all the right actions, the results will come. And so when I'm interviewing someone and I don't hear them use those words that I know will lead to the right actions, that is like nonstarter for sure.

13:53Let me ask something. And this is kind of off script. But let's say you're considering somebody. is somebody having a personal brand like a good thing or a bad thing meaning like you you go i'm sure you look somebody up on linkedin before you hire them like oh we have 27 connections that are the same and they're important people and they share a lot on social media like what they're sharing on linkedin or whatever big check mark or is it like oh they're a little bit too out there they're sharing their opinion too much we don't need that in our team like where do where's a personal brand fit in in terms of being a good fit for an organization?

14:26Personal brands are great as long as they're balanced. You know, and then the sort of notion of the celebrity CMO or celebrity CEO, the ones that are the most effective are the ones that are actually doing the work, not spending nine out of 10, you know, or 90 % of their time on panels. You don't need to hear yourself talk more than a couple of times a year to be effective as building your personal brand. And so I think it's just balance. If somebody comes in and it's like, they are really confident and they've said, Hey, look, I built this business at this old company. And you can see on LinkedIn, I promoted the hell out of it.

15:10Amazing. If that's all they do. And again, your spider sense kind of, you know, rings and you're like, Oh yeah, this person's a really good talker. Like we don't need industry evangelists. We need leaders. We need doers. And so I would definitely say personal brand is great, but if it airs on the side of, uh, not being a leader or a doer, uh, then it's not worth, uh, the conversation. So, all right, before we have to wrap up on this thing, I want to know something because you, when I was looking through everything, like how the hell is this dude doing all that? got 500 websites and five zillion podcasts and four.

15:49I don't even know what the hell's going on over there. I can't even keep up with everything you got going on. And I know you're a super invested dad. You got a bunch of kids over there. How the hell do you manage your time? I do get up at two in the morning. Are you like insane? Like what's your deal? Uh, that's a really good question. No. Um, I get up at six in the morning, go to the gym. And then I, I actually, I just started taking the ferry to work cause I'm in New Jersey, which I don't, I don't know why it took me this long, but it's the most amazing thing. I could chill. I'm not stressed when I get in.

16:20So I think stress management is a big part of it. But in terms of balance, it's like, I don't go out during the week unless it's a really compelling reason. Because otherwise, I'll never see my family, my wife, my kids. And so in order for me to make the decision to go out with a client, there's a high bar. It's like a really important client or a really important relationship. I'm not going to do something just because I'm going to make sure it's a good use of my time. And by doing that, I get to spend time with them. And then, you know, obviously they're getting older, they're running around on the weekends, they're not around.

16:56I can go out and have a social life on the weekends, but I try not to go out unless it's a really, you know, strong rationale as to why. And even then it's like once a week is maxed to, I would have to, my, my, like my head would explode if I did that. Um, but it is, it is time management. Then I can do all the things. Plus I'm traveling all the time. You know, I, the last two weeks I was in LA for Vulture Fest and, uh, got to see our Vulture brand do this live amazing festival. And then I went directly to London, but stopped at home for 24 hours just so I could hang with the fam. So again, it's like that balance of not just being on the road two weeks straight.

17:36So, So it is obviously it's hard, but like I said, it's advertising. So it's all fun at the end of the day. Yeah, I think as I get older, I'm trying to be more respectful of my own time. It used to be like, oh, you want to go out? Cool. Now it's like, you want to go out? That sucks. Yeah, exactly. I'm the exact same way. It's just a high bar now. Yeah, 100%. So let me ask you, in your business, you have met every famous person on the planet. Is there anybody like on the bucket list for you that's like, listen, I haven't really hung out with this person? Because I mean, your business is that you just hang out with cool people.

18:11There's got to be somebody that you're like, I'm going to meet this person. It's going to be great. There are so many people. And the number one on my list, I think I have to come down. We'll hang. It's it's he's in Florida. I need to see Sylvester Stallone. I would love to go to dinner with him. That's amazing. That's like the first name. You want to meet Rocky. Yeah. I mean, it's the greatest. I use Rocky metaphors so many times, like, you know, over the course of the years, I think like his story is a Rocky story. I just think he's like a it's a cool guy to just pick his brain and be like, so you were broke and they asked you to sell the script and you said no.

18:48And they asked you to sell the script again and you said no. And then you start in this movie and it changed your life. And it's like I just it for me, there's always layers. It's not just like, yeah, I was amazing. I got to meet Mike Myers like a couple of weeks ago, took a picture, posted it. yeah he was he was amazing but like no no shade on on on mike myers of course but like there are a few people in that vein of like you just really want to pick their brain and have a dinner and like ask them questions you know so anyways rocky one through i guess five which one are we watching well five is not even real uh i i love three i mean who doesn't love yeah exactly club we're laying i mean it's just like it to me that's the rocky one is the best but like rocky three is is is close i'm gonna get you like a mr t uh costume or something you know he needs the podcast he probably has one um he probably has one on your network for all i know that'd be he's the next one don't tell anybody big announcement all right jeff you're awesome Listen, everybody's got to go follow Jeff on LinkedIn.

19:57The guy just shares the best stuff. Jeff, what else should people get involved with in your world? We'll put in the show notes, but anything you want to tell everybody? Look, I would say one of the key differences about what we're doing is really centering every sort of thing that we do around our talent and our IP. In a world, as you know better than anyone, of commoditized content, every word matters. And so the words need to come from something of high value. And so I think in this world of infinite choice, we're trying to do things that matter, whether it's New York Magazine or The Verge or Eater.

20:34And then we're trying to build franchises that break through. So we're doing something in a couple of weeks in Williamsburg called Eater Under Wraps, which is going to be a live holiday market. We'll be at CES Vergecast live. So just check out the stuff that we're doing, obviously. supported quality journalism matters and brands matter. And then on the pod side, you have the number one marketing podcast. We have some number ones, you know, take a listen. Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird are amazing. Their podcast to touch more. We just announced the addition of Lonzo Ball's What an Experience, Cam Hayward, who's the reigning NFL man of the year.

21:15So lots of different pods. And then, of course, Kara Swisher, Scott Galloway in the world of of technology and media. So, um, just, you know, support Vox media and, uh, we appreciate it. Amazing. Love Galloway. He's the best. All right, Jeff, you are best. Can't wait to hang. Thanks for doing this and we'll see you soon. Absolutely. Happy holidays. You did it. You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over. Subscribe to make sure you get the latest episode each week for more actionable tips and a little chaos from today's top marketers and hook us up with a five-star review if this wasn't the worst podcast of all time.

21:54Lastly, if you want access to the best virtual marketing events that are also 100 % free, visit guruevents.com so you can hear from the world's top marketers like Damon John, Martha Stewart, and me. Guruevents.com. Check it out.