Facebook Secrets! w/Mari Smith 'Queen of Facebook' ‘Are Followers Dead’ 😳 | Ep. 369

0:01Welcome to Do This Not That, the podcast for marketers. Each episode is packed with quick tips. They're super short, and at the end, we have some fun. Let's jump into it, and thanks for being here. I am really, really excited. We have somebody here that I've wanted to have on forever. If you don't know Mari Smith, I don't know what's wrong with you. She is, to me and to everybody else, regarded as the queen of Facebook, okay? She is, no doubt, one of the biggest social media people on the planet. at Fast Company. Here's how they described her. You ready for this? A veritable engine of personal branding, a relationship marketing whiz, and the Pied Piper of the online world.

0:45Forbes named Mari one of the top social media influencers three years in a row. She is a big deal. And what she's really known for is all things Facebook. We are going to get into it. This is going to be amazing. Mari, welcome to the show. Hey, Jay. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. yay um all right so before we get into some tips tactics quick wins on facebook that uh you just are going to crush it give everyone the quick rundown who's mari what do you do how'd you become the queen of facebook oh gosh well i just kind of fell in love with the platform it was may the 4th of 2007 right to star wars day and i just loved the white space the ability to just reach out to anybody in the DMs and, you know, famous people, whatever, and just start building relationships and interviewing them.

1:33And back in the day when people would check their DMs, I just loved it. I really thought it was a magical experience to be able to grow a community and to establish yourself as an authority on a subject. And then just right away within a few weeks began to encourage people to get on and way before there was ads or pages or groups or anything. I mean, it was just a radical improving on, on, on my space. And so that was almost two decades ago. I can't even believe that. Uh, so the time has flown by. I love it. I'm mostly specialized in organic and I know just enough about ads to be dangerous. Well, you really have carved out a community of people that are trying to understand how to navigate Facebook.

2:15And by the way, we're going to put it on the show notes. We're going to also mention at the end, but the social scoop Facebook group that you've started is so valuable because you're always sharing the latest stuff. So I want to jump into the latest stuff and forever. And I want to know your take on this. What we have all been chasing, actually, regardless of platform, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, whatever it is, I want more followers because more followers mean more eyeballs on my stuff. But is that still the North Star? Are we still trying to grow our following. We could say followers are dead.

2:51I hate to say it so boldly, but that's something that Gary Vaynerchuk would say. Honestly, followers give us credibility. The more followers you have, it's just a perception that people think you're more important, period. Okay, great. We got that. However, the brilliant thing with the new rules of reach, how metas, AI-powered algorithms are working, it's really about the non-followers. It's about creating amazing content, compelling hooks, great visuals, great message, draws people in first three seconds, you know, good thumbnails, that thing can go totally viral. It's now you've got to check your stats on both Facebook and Instagram.

3:32I mean, some other platforms might do it too. But for sure, Facebook and Instagram, looking at the little pie circle thing that chose you, okay, how many percent saw this that were your followers versus non-followers. That is the litmus test. The more non-followers you're reaching, the more the algorithms are like, wow, this is amazing content. Let's find a bigger and bigger and bigger audience for it. So, okay. Followers are dead. So what do I do? What does somebody do? They're like, listen to this, like, oh, great. I don't have a lot of followers. So now I can get my stuff out there pretty wide.

4:06I want to get started doing this. What? How do I do that? Okay, I briefly hinted at it. And let's go deeper. Because here's the thing. If if the algorithms are not picking up your content, it's probably because your content's rubbish. And the thing is, people don't really realize it, we get really close to our own stuff. But there's where like, AI can come in, chat, GPT, whatever, to really help you to iterate and come up with better hooks, or to dive deep into perplexity or whatever, or ads to the public, you know, also it's great tools out there to, what are the problems that your product or service is solving?

4:46And, and you drop these little tidbits out there as your, your free, you know, top of funnel content for your socials. And so experimenting with the hooks, with the thumbnails, with maybe even the length, if you're doing videos, A big thing on Facebook recently is they've announced that all video posts are going to be real. That doesn't mean that you have to only do vertical. I strongly recommend you only do vertical on Instagram because they don't have the rotation. On Facebook, you can do the rotation of your phone. So you get now a nice full screen landscape player, like you can do on YouTube or Netflix or whatever.

5:27So you might want to experiment with some longer form video on Facebook. but the key is you know jay it's like what kind of content do people love it's either educational or it's entertaining you're like the king of memes man i could binge watch your instagram content it makes me laugh it's ridiculous but let me ask you a question related to all that do you try to reverse engineer things meaning like okay i'm gonna look for viral templates you know carousel formats viral video formats viral whatever and then say i'm now i'm going to make that in my voice in my way or do you just create stuff that you think kind of like checks a lot of the okay it's a good hook it's good visual it's good whatever is reverse engineering the right plan it can be it can be for some people like there's a gal on face on uh instagram i particularly appreciate miss caroline flat f-l-e-t she's great she's fun to like millions of followers okay great her content is so on point it's like a whole school on how to do Instagram and so yeah you could watch what she does and reverse engineer that's never been for me personally for my brand I am more about imparting like like cutting edge news breaking down what not news but like specific to marketers like how is a small business owner going to be able to capitalize on the fact that Facebook just made all videos in the reels format.

6:53Well, how does that affect them? What about groups? Should they even start a group? What about this thing now with personal profiles on Facebook? Now there's a, I mean, it's been out for a couple of years, but Facebook's really pushing it where you can convert your personal profile into what's called professional mode. I actually recommend that unless you're a super private person and you're only using your Facebook profile for, you know, friends and family. Fine. Keep it locked down. don't open it up to public followers. But Facebook loves to push that because it's really, it's like a public page for creators that can't be bothered with a page and only want to stay on their personal profile.

7:30So now I'm really curious about something. So let's say I'm listening to this. I'm like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to be posting more. I want to get it out there for my business, for me, my personal brand, whatever. Are you better off investing the energy in to your point, a personal page that has a, I guess, a business profile, or are you better off doing like a brand page on Facebook and trying to push there? Like which one is, is better for you to put the energy behind, or do you need to be doing both? So it's going to really depend if you're like a personality-based brand, I would encourage you to, to lean into that.

8:06It's called professional mode. It's a toggle. You can turn it on and you get instant access to what's called a professional dashboard. You're going to see insights on all of your followers. They just lump all your friends into the followers on the personal profile. And then you also get the boost. You can run ads even on your personal profile. So if you're more of a personality based brand, you could totally do that. But if you're the, you have a business as a name that's not yours, I would strongly recommend also having the public page. Not only that with the public page business page is that's really where you're going to get access to ads manager and to really, you know, embrace the paid side of Facebook because it's kind of more of a lightweight interface, just like the boost button on, on your personal profile in professional mode.

8:54So is it harder to, let's say, go viral on a personal page versus a business page, or it doesn't matter? It's easier to, absolutely easier to go viral on a personal profile converted to professional mode because it's catering to the creator audience, which practically all these social networks, it's nothing about the creator economy, every other creator. I'll mention another name is Austin Armstrong, a good friend of mine. He has like, last I looked, he's closing in on 2 million followers on his personal profile. And he sometimes shares screenshots with me where he's got like a 100 % non-follower reach on a post with like 44 million views.

9:32And like, but he's got like almost 2 million followers have put their hand up and say, yeah, I'm interested. And yet Facebook can still go out and find, you know, 44 million non followers. It's extraordinary. So, all right, look, now I'm going to ask something and I, this is like a loaded question. Cause so on my Instagram page, which I'm just really getting going, I'm trying to figure it all out. I post some stupid memes, as you know. So I post this one stupid meme and I was shocked, ended up getting, you know, 4 million views. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Now, at first I'm like, this is so cool.

10:02Look at all these new people. and I got a lot of followers out of it, whatever. But the followers that I got were total trash. I mean, not trash, I'm sure they're good people, but they have nothing to do with the ICP of my overall business. And I took a step back, I'm like, what was the value in that going viral? So number one, going viral just to go viral, is that a big fat waste of time? And do you really need to try to get a lot of reach and engagement from content that actually fits into what you do for a living? or is there value in just getting like viral? Wow, I love this question, Jay.

10:38I think there's, my answer would be a kind of a qualified yes to both. Like you never know what the next piece of content is gonna go viral, quote unquote, right? But the thing is, I'm such a strategist. I'm always gonna think, okay, if this particular meme or whatever, I'm not a meme poster, but I love your memes, like I say. Adding into the CTA or even like the first comment, if you want, you can do that Facebook or Instagram and just saying, setting up a chatbot and going like, DM me the word, you know, crazy meme, and I'll send you my whatever. You're really good at that. I see you doing that on LinkedIn a lot.

11:11But it's like when people DM you, and especially if you've got the automation set up, and then you can pull them into an email list in a funnel, then they're going to kind of weed themselves out anyway. And you just never know when you're going to pick up like a whole bunch of new paying clients or whatnot. So yeah, I would say the eyeballs, all eyeballs are valuable. it's just that we don't necessarily know if all they've seen is a meme and then and then they'd kind of forget about you then yeah it's not so much value but the idea here is to to really keep casting the net wider and wider to pull in who your ideal customers are so all right that was that was very helpful i but i just heard you say something and now i gotta check in on this so here it is the queen of Facebook is here.

11:56And she just talked about the value of getting people off of these platforms and onto an email list. Are we saying that the queen of Facebook thinks that email data, email database growth is important? It is the most vital part of your business. Can I tell you in 2003, my first ever ebook that I wrote 240 pages before AI was on email marketing. I mean, it's just so it's never going to die. I don't think anyway, we're always going to have this aspect of our business. Because yeah, just as of time of this recording, yesterday, a whole bunch of Facebook groups just got nuked. And people are freaking out, how am I going to reach my audience?

12:36Well, hello, you should have maybe built your email list in the first place. And I'm in no judgment. But fortunately, they're getting them back, the groups are coming back. But you got to have a backup plan for instances like that. But not only that, email marketing, you got to have this more intimate one-on-one conversation with people in their inboxes, drive them through offers. And to your point, like when you're talking about your friend with the 44 million views and all, when you post something, who knows how many people are going to see it that follow you. It's like a fraction now, right?

13:06Organic reach is like tiny, right? It is. It is. It's astonishing. Even when I post my own stuff, either Facebook or Instagram, I'm often amazed at how large the portion of non-followers is. And that's kind of the name of the game now. And in fact, on Instagram, one way to do that, to experiment, is what they call trial reels, where your reel will only go out to non-followers. It doesn't even show on your grid. And they go out and they try to find you an audience for about 24 hours. Brilliant. I mean, all this stuff is basically free, except for the time it takes you to create the creative. I believe, I predict, that trial reels are going to come to Facebook.

13:43sooner or later. But just popping in my head was Gary V talking about how we've never had a situation like this in 20 plus years of social media marketing, 30 of online marketing, where you can basically test creative at scale for low to no cost. Then you pick your winners. And then you turn those into the ads. Now you start putting ads on, you know, the most viral posts. 100 % no I think that testing out your reels has become so valuable and also the new app their edits app in terms of Instagram coming out with their edits up I think that that's been really really cool all right I have a question that's super random so you have this very engaged Facebook group yes the social scoop Facebook group everyone go and join Mari Smith's M-A-R-I Smith the social scoop Facebook group but and my wife's a dermatologist so she's in these Facebook groups and she they're just like the greatest thing for her world or business whatever i don't do a lot in facebook groups i should but here's my question is is it too late let's say okay i want to start a community i think i'm going to start as a facebook group has that ship sailed would you say that is the place still to start a community of whatever it is about or would you have would you now today if maury smith was getting going no i would do it here instead oh i love this question too.

15:06I would say, you know, I'm kind of a both and person. So I would say yes on a Facebook group and potentially have another, like I have a platform on Mighty Networks. We've got a few thousand people there launched a few years ago. And I talk about some other different subjects. But the Facebook group, here's the thing. I'm going to quote Gina Bianchini. She is the co-founder of Mighty Networks. And she and her team did some studies, I want to say maybe last year they found the number one predictor of the success of a community it's not the leaders not the topics not the title it's not the content you share it's that members are connecting with each other there's like this peer-to-peer connection and support and fortunately i have managed to create that my social scoop there's this incredible flywheel where i don't do a whole lot in there i don't put a force a lot of content i engage in there i have my team members engage but generally speaking, people come back to that group day after day because they're getting help and support and sharing ideas.

16:02So that's the premise of what can really make a Facebook group work. And I see a lot of people struggle to get members and it's like, well, it's not clear what, why should I join your group? Right? Give me the big why first. Yeah. The thing that I like about Facebook groups is that people already have the app on their phone. They already know how to use it. And so often there's so many of these applications and thingamabobs that may look really cool, but nobody wants to download something new. It's just a massive barrier to entry. 100%. All right. All right. Before we run out of time here, first off, people are going to hear you have this beautiful accent.

16:38They're going to think that you're living somewhere far away, but give everybody a rundown. The Mari Smith story, like where are you now? What's going on? I am in Ashland, Oregon on two acres with solar power and well water, and my neighbors are goats. I'm overlooking a lake. Yeah, I moved here about two years ago. Before that, 23 years, I was in San Diego, California. Yay. And I was born in Canada to 100 % Scottish parents. So if you cut me open, my blood is tartan. So I'm fully Scottish, although I started out in Canada. And I don't know, I used to say I was Scandiforinian or something, but now I have to somehow weave Oregon in there.

17:15And I have three passports. I'm very blessed to have triple citizenship. And yeah, my passion project for five years now is studying the human design system. It's incredible fusion of astrology, the Chinese I Ching. Great to really profoundly understand yourself. And I know about myself, I'm just a great experimenter. I love new things and trying out, you know, just experimenting what's going to work today. I think that's why it's kept me on my toes with Facebook because it's always changing. You know, it's the longest I've ever stuck with any one career. Well, your energy, every time I've interacted with you in any way, your energy is incredible.

17:48I'm a big fan of everything you do. I want you to tell everybody where can they find you on Instagram, Facebook, your groups, tell everybody everything because everyone needs to get involved with your world. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm pretty much Mari Smith anywhere, uh, Instagram, Mari underscore Smith and marismith.com. And there's like, I say, you know, just Google me or chat, GPT me or whatever the heck we say these days. Yeah. And it's Mari M-A-R-I Smith. Um, and everyone, please follow it and get involved with the social scoop Facebook group. It's incredible. Mari, thank you so much for being here.

18:20Oh, my pleasure. You did it. You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over. Subscribe to make sure you get the latest episode each week for more actionable tips and a little chaos from today's top marketers. And hook us up with a five-star review if this wasn't the worst podcast of all time. Lastly, if you want access to the best virtual marketing events that are also 100 % free, visit guru events.com. So you can hear from the world's top marketers like Damon, John, Martha Stewart, and me guru events.com. Check it out.