SPECIAL LIMITED SERIES: ===> QUICK Content VS. GUIDES, REPORTS, etc...🚽 <=== DANIEL's BFF WAS A GIRAFFE!🦒 | BATHROOM Break #25 (COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That)

0:00Welcome to a new special series called The Bathroom Break. that extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom or both but i don't recommend both but that's your choice this collab is going to be super fun we have daniel murray from the marketing millennials and me jay schwettleson from the do this not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics and if you want to be in the bathroom fine just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back. It is bathroom mania, otherwise known as bathroom break.

0:33This is Jay Schwettlson. I'm here with the marketing millennial, Daniel Murray. Daniel, I got a question for you before we get started. I know you play tennis and all, but like, are you lazy beyond tennis? Will you just sit on the couch and just stare at your TV? Or are you a super active dude? You're like, all right, not only tennis, but I'm going to go and do yoga. I'm going to go and bench press 7 billion pounds. Like what's your vibe? Are you a super active dude? Great question. Um, I, I always strive to get, uh, 10 ,000 steps a day just because I think I just like being out outside. I grew up, my family wasn't really a academic family.

1:14It was more like, Hey, send you to all these sports cams, send you to everything outdoors that you can. So I've been used to, but the, the only, the only sports sport I play now as tennis otherwise I'm just gonna go for a walk to just calm down get my thoughts get fresh air so but otherwise the other than that I'm I don't I'm pretty lazy also lifting too I do lift but not intensely it's like 20 minute 30 minute lift so it's not like going I don't go ham what about you so I try to be active you know my problem is my wife is is in crazy good shape and it always stressed me out she's like let's go for a run together and then like within like two minutes she's like way ahead of me and it's embarrassing or if we go to like let's say there's a workout class and if we actually go to it together she always gets annoyed me because i won't be in the position next to her i'll like be like five people away she's like we're married you should be next to me in the workout class but she's crushing it and i suck and so my rule is if we go anywhere do anything like physically active together i have to be far away because I'm so embarrassed by how big of a loser I am.

2:25So I try, but I am incompetent, inept, terrible. That's the truth. I just can imagine you just being in a different – like I don't know you in this workout class. We're going to go in there. You walk in five minutes before me. A hundred percent. That's exactly what happens. All right. Let's jump into this. Talking about data and working out and metrics, We're talking about qualitative and quantitative stuff. Daniel, kick us off. What are we talking about? Yeah, I just want to – Jay does this really well, and I think you can – it's really important in content to share data publicly. if you're doing research internally, whether it's qualitative or quantitative, sharing it in your content just creates a level of credibility and expertise to another level because it shows you actually are thinking deeply on this.

3:21But we were talking about this before the episode and Jay does something cool. He used to put out huge reports on just all these stats that you should do for email marketing and how to improve, but now he doesn't do that anymore. So he has a different strategy and I wanted to get on the podcast for him to share what he does and why it works because it works really well. Yeah. So because of my agency, we do a lot of not just email campaigns, but marketing campaigns in general. We set up what we call a research group. And every time we do campaigns at scale, we're trying to capture what works, what doesn't work.

3:59We used to put out these big quarterly reports like everybody does. this report or this guy, this whatever, and you put it out once a quarter and you try to get people to download it. And that was fine. But what we realized was if we, instead of putting out these reports, which always seem dated after like a few weeks or a month, if we just drip out the individual stats and we use those as kind of these bite-sized shareable things in emails that we send out, in social posts that we do, the level of engagement that we would get by dripping it out and not making it all available in one report, it gave us exponential engagement.

4:36So I think that sometimes you have to look at things and do it the opposite way. You don't need to release these big reports to get the extreme value. So that's the path that we've gone down. What do you think about kind of like this snackable, quantitative, qualitative stuff? I just think about we're in the age of shareability um i always think when i put out a piece of content or anything is would i share this my filters would i share this in a group chat with my marketing friends and the reason why i think your technique words and why you should share either quotes or stats or interesting stuff is a little snackable piece of content like emojis lift your subject line by 33%, someone's going to screenshot that and send it to a friend or send it in a Slack channel.

5:28And then your content is floating in the dark social world. A big report, if you send it to someone, just think about eBooks in general. We used to be very gated content in marketing, but when someone downloads a report, probably 10 % of those people actually read the report and then they don't have time to take a snapshot of that report to send it to someone. So you need to make it easier for people to share things. That's what I think. Like now with content, make it so simple that if someone sent it to someone else, they can get the information in two to three seconds. And that's what I think about every piece of content I put out.

6:13Yeah. And also I think that you have to think about if you are putting out content that you want people to download, okay, what are you actually calling that content? Right. Because there's no content police out there. Like Daniel, when is the last time you downloaded an ebook and you actually read it? I don't even think I've downloaded so many ebooks, but I, I don't, don't read ebooks. Luckily like chat GPT is around now that you You could just tell it to skim it for you. But it's just no e-books. E-books are just nobody has time for them. Only the deep like only those marketers who really, really need to get something out of it or like want to write an article on some statue road are going to read it.

7:04Other than that, no market is taking the time to read a whole report these days. So let's talk about other type of metrics, though. So we talk about research and organizing things. So you put out a lot of social content. How closely are you all analyzing, you know, these posts generated these views, these comments, these shares? Or is that data not really that valuable to your organization? no it's really but i like to look at what topics are getting the most amount of age i do this with the podcast i do this with social posts i do this with emails um what content is getting like subject lines are getting the most open based on the content we're putting in that that that article what what posts are getting shared on instagram because instagram every platform has a different metric on Instagram.

8:02I'm looking at shares on LinkedIn. I'm looking at, at likes and comments on a podcast. I'm looking at downloads, but I'm looking at it for finding out the topics that hit for my audience. And then I'm creating more and more of that content. So if I see it works, I'm going to keep doubling down and also look at what, what flops or could it, is it because of the headline I did or the topics are retest things to see if it will work again. I mean, And if it doesn't work up to two to three times, I just say, maybe that's not a content my audience likes. And it's okay to just put it on the shelf and never use it again.

8:39The whole goal with creating content with me is getting closer to creating topics that people want to listen to and hear and read and consume. So I'm curious about something because I struggle with something. how much do you value your own opinion what i mean by that is let's say i have a meme i think it's funny okay i put it out there people don't really dig it right then there's something else i'll put out there that i don't think is particularly good but it crushes it and i'm always like i don't know if i want to put stuff out there that i don't actually like that's hard for me. How much do you factor in what Daniel Murray thinks about a particular piece of content?

9:28I think it depends on the medium. Like what I mean by that is like on social, like the goal, and I've said this in multiple episodes, but the goal is to get attention for me. So I really just want to put, if someone's liking those pieces of content, that means the audience likes that content. I don't like people, people want people to stay on LinkedIn. like or the platform so it works when it comes to newsletter i'm a little more picky because that's like i brought them into my world now i want to show my deep deeper expertise so what i write in the newsletter i'm a little more picky of like this doesn't sound like what i'm doing like me and authentically me but when i put on social my goal is hey could i get as much attention as possible to bring people in my newsletter and podcast so that's my filter if that's helpful but i don't think i also think people overthink of it like you're not the goal of marketing is not to put out your personal journal that you think is cool like your goal in marketing is to give people what they want and that's the goal um and if you don't like what they want then switch topic like go into a different field or go into a different topic because the goal is to put out what they want, not what you want.

10:48Yeah. And it's really, I think it's important. I always try to have the frame of mind that I am not my audience. I, I'm part of my audience. I'm part of who I'm marketing to. I'm one of many, but I am not the, the, the entire community, the entire audience. And you want to, uh, share something that is useful to everybody as much as that you can, even if it's not, you know, something that is spot on for you specifically. And I think that people get too close to it sometimes. Um, all right. So, uh, before we wrap up, what, um, what now you're, you're traveling again, you're on the, you're on the mode of traveling again.

11:26Are you, um, do you like traveling? Depends what it's for. Um, but I'm the kind of person who get kind of antsy staying in one place for too long. So I need the quick trips or quick to get it out of me. Do you drive a car around a lot? Where I live right now, there's so many cool places close to me that, you know, we'll go for like 20, 30 minute drive here or an hour drive here. But I grew up with a mom who owned a travel company when I was in South Africa. So travel was in my blood from day one. So it's like I can't shake it because I got that bug and it just never went away. What about you? Are you homebody?

12:21Wait, so how old were you when you moved out of South Africa? I moved from South Africa at seven. Did you go in like – I think it was the dumbest question in the world. but like do people like you go like safaris on the weekend is that what you do i mean not question i've ever asked no but um we live probably two hours from like a game park which is like where you go safari so um like we would go for trips or you can go drive like kruger national park you can drive your own car through the safari and there's like elephants and lions and like walking around it's actually nutty um but whoever hasn't done that in their lifetime you should go do it it's an experience it's so fun it's crazy to be out there and it's not like going to the zoos or stop thinking that the zoo is like that go out in real nature and see it all right we're gonna do a deep dive on daniel safari hot takes coming up on the next bathroom break get excited all right everybody thanks for being here daniel come on man i gotta get back to work get out of there all right while he's still in there this is jay check out my podcast do this not that for marketers each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try oh here's daniel he's finally out back from my bathroom break this is Daniel, go follow the Mark and Millet podcast, but also tune into this series.

13:52It's once a week, the bathroom break. We talk about marking tips that we just spew out and it could be anything from email, subject line to any marking tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out. Later. Daniel, come on, man. I got to get back to work. Get out of there. All right. While he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, Do This, Not That for marketers. Each week, we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out. Back from my bathroom break.

14:27This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into the series. It's once a week, the bathroom break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out and it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out. Later.