We Keep Us Safe: Circles of Silence

24:10So Antonio Sr. continues to be haunted by this question of who killed his son. But it's not the only question he has. He's not just looking for an arrest. Antonio Sr. told us he's also looking for a broader explanation. He's trying to make sense of how his son ended up shot and killed at a protest against police violence by people acting as police. I'm not a legal professional, but it's not legal to allow vigilantes to police their own zone. None of this should have happened. And none of those officials that were in power at that time should have allowed to let that to happen. That's coming up.

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25:45It's just a good time with good friends and great tunes. Listen to all songs considered every Tuesday in the NPR Music Podcast. When Antonio Mays Sr. says he wants an explanation for how his son was killed, there's a question that comes to mind right away for Sidney, for me, and for our reporting partner, David Gutman. It's a question that's hung over our entire investigation. It's about the role of armed security at this protest against police violence. It was David who finally got a chance to ask this question to someone central to setting up CHOP security, the Sentinel known as Slate. Have you thought about kind of how closely this shooting kind of mirrored a police shooting?

26:35That was something I very quickly became aware of, like even before the shootings really started happening. is that we are chopped police, essentially. Right away, Slate acknowledges the irony of how Antonio was killed. As they explain how this happened, they essentially say some of the same stuff police departments say when they face criticism. We don't have enough resources. We don't have enough training. We don't have enough manpower. And when you look at how that shooting happened, And I think the difference is, is that if you had somebody who had been adequately trained, there was an expectation of professionalism.

27:18If there was an expectation of being monitored, I don't think that shooting would have happened. So, I mean, you just made a pretty good case for the police, I think. I would say that there are aspects of what we did that law enforcement could adopt the way that we managed interactions that enabled us to have a lot less escalatory situations. But, you know, just to kind of step back for a second, this whole protest is against police shootings. And a bunch of the stuff you just said is what police say, right? If we had more resources, if we had better training. I was aware the entire time. And I get into arguments a lot with people that are left leaning that are like abolish the police.

28:15I'm like, all right, so what are you going to replace them with? And then they're like, we're going to get social services. OK, then what happens when someone starts shooting? Slate seems to be saying that in the absence of police, there are going to be people who step up to fill that role. And there are certainly no guarantees that they're going to be any better at it than the regular police. Regardless of your political belief, if you're in a position where you have a gun in your hand and there is somebody else who might have a gun in their hand, there's a pretty reasonable expectation that you're going to fucking shoot the wrong person.

28:51Is that what happened to Antonio? Was he a person who didn't have a gun but was seen as a threat, just like so many victims of killings by police? If so, what does it mean that this happened at a movement fighting to prevent that very thing?

29:15We knew someone who might have the perspective to answer that. We're going to stay here because you let us continue. Our calm, peaceful, perfect.

29:28No one experienced the highs and lows of that summer in Seattle like Rashilah Leavitt. She was a breakout voice for the movement, and she stuck with CHOP from beginning to end. Rashilah was there when police dismantled CHOP three weeks after it started. She was one of about four dozen people who were arrested as police swept through. And she witnessed some of Antonio's final moments. It's hard to look past the irony that Antonio's death ends up looking a lot like a police shooting, or the very shootings that the movement was protesting against. you're not wrong that it ends up looking like exactly what we were trying to prevent what we're fighting against it's absolutely ironic that it happened the way that it happened and it looks the way that it looks um and it's sad it's it's really sad um does the movement bear any responsibility for what happened to him

30:47i think it's such a hard question um i think in part that yes i think that anybody that's involved in a movement such as the one that we all experienced that summer, that year, you know, I think we all bear, you know, some shoulder of responsibility. Rashilah recognizes the irony of how Antonio was killed. She says protesters have some responsibility for it in a vague way, but she can't name a single thing protesters might have done differently. I don't know if there's anything specific that anybody could have done. leading up to that evening that would have changed anything. Rashilah's not alone.

31:46We talked to nearly 100 people connected with the protests in Seattle that summer, and this was the most common outlook we heard. That what happened to Antonio was tragic, but unavoidable. That there's nothing to be learned from examining protesters' decisions. Decisions like the one to form an occupation in the first place and stay there for weeks as conditions deteriorated. Even as one teenager, Lorenzo Anderson, was killed on Juneteenth. Even as Antonio was killed and Robert West was permanently disabled 10 days later. Or the decision by some to think of the camp as a war zone. To put so much emphasis on defending it from attacks.

32:30and to put that defense in the hands of people who claimed they had military experience and carried guns. To Rashilah and a lot of other protesters we spoke with, none of these choices are responsible for Antonio's death. To them, it was the city that was supposed to protect Antonio and failed.

32:56Rishilah even flew in from Texas, where she lives now, to make this argument at the trial in Antonio Sr.'s wrongful death case. She says she wanted to help get justice for Antonio. You're part of the shop, are you? Yes. And did your role involve communicating with the city of Italy? Yes. So she took the stand to give her version of what happened the night Antonio was killed, watching the ambulance drive away while Antonio lay dying in the back of a silver Nissan Pathfinder. But then the city's lawyers questioned her about her role that night. Were you aware there was a gun battle between the Nissan Pathfinder and the white Jeep Cherokee?

33:39Were you armed when you got into the car? No. Was anyone else in the car armed? The city's attorney pressed Rashilah on whether she was in the Pathfinder while people inside were shooting at Antonio and his friends. Rashilah maintained, as she has with me, that she was not. But you could see what the attorney might be trying to do. Send a signal to the jury that here's a person demanding accountability from the city while not taking any herself.

34:15Antonio Sr. had a lot of questions about the city's role in his son's death that never got aired at trial. He had imagined the former mayor and police chief taking the stand. Why were the mayor and the chief of police, why were they not brought forward to answer for what they did wrong? They didn't have to testify because the judge threw out the arguments that the city was responsible for the creation of CHOP and that the creation of CHOP was responsible for Antonio's death. City officials have avoided having to answer for the events surrounding CHOP in other ways. In the summer of 2020, tens of thousands of text messages from the phones of the mayor at that time, Jenny Durkin, her police chief, and other officials were deleted.

35:02Included in those lost texts, potentially, was a record of their internal communications about CHOP. Prosecutors concluded that the messages were lost because of a perfect storm of errors and outdated, confusing policies around retaining texts. The city had to pay almost$200 ,000 after the Seattle Times sued over the missing texts. Our colleague David spent months going back and forth with Durkin over whether she'd talk with us about the decisions she made while leading the city through that summer. Durkin told us she wasn't able to sit down for an interview. Instead, she sent us an email. In the email, she wrote that the fires and the looting in the earliest days of the protests really set a tone and police were freaked out.

35:47They were scared that their precinct was going to burn down. And then she said those fears led to kind of a tunnel vision that set off this chain of events that ended up leading to CHOP. She said police didn't have any plan at all for what to do if protesters tried to occupy the area. It wasn't, in her words, in their threat matrix. So without city officials appearing at trial or speaking with us, this one email may be all the reflection we're going to get from Seattle's government. A spokesperson for Seattle's current mayor did not respond to our request to talk.

36:31Earlier this year, as the wrongful death case against the city went on, I felt like I was watching this trial, and whatever closure it might bring, slipping away from Antonio Sr. The city's attorneys kept presenting evidence that Antonio may have stolen the white jeep. They also made a pretty strong argument that Antonio had been shot in the head and probably would have died no matter how quickly he got help from emergency responders. If they convinced the jury of this, Antonio Sr. would lose. But then, the judge ruled that whether Antonio stole the Jeep wasn't relevant. Even if Antonio was involved in the car theft, the judge said, There's no proof he was killed because of that.

37:21As the trial wrapped up, that whole argument just got thrown out. All right, thank you, everyone. Please be seated. I understand that the jury has reached a verdict. Please deliver the verdict form to my bailiff. After nearly three weeks of deliberation. Question number one, was the defendant's city of Seattle negligent? Answer, yes. A jury agreed that the city's emergency response was negligent, and delays in Antonio getting care contributed to his death. Question number two. Was a defendant's city's negligence to take the approximate cost of the death of Antonio Mayes Jr.? The answer is yes.

38:09Question number three. Jurors awarded Antonio Sr. and Antonio Jr.'s estate more than$30 million. The city is appealing. When the verdict was announced, there was a moment when Antonio Sr. just collapsed in relief. He doubled over at his table. It was like watching more than five years of tension drain out of his body. But a little while later, speaking at a press conference, it was like some of that relief had faded. I'm thankful for the verdict. I'm thankful for the success. But I can't say that it feels good. I can't say that it feels complete because it doesn't. Antonio Sr. seemed a little stunned, like he didn't know how to feel.

39:06So I asked him, what answers are you still waiting for? I'm in the same darkness that I was in when we filed this in 2023. I don't know anything more. I don't know anything less. And it doesn't appear that they're doing anything more. They still haven't arrested the guy. Antonio Sr. couldn't shake this feeling that his son had been the one on trial. My son's name was unfortunately drugged through the mud for five years. I don't wish anybody to ever have to fight for their kids the way that I had to fight for mine. Antonio Sr. could have been talking about any of it. The protesters who have said his son was a mass shooter, a gang member, doing a gang initiation.

39:57The ones who celebrated Antonio's death online. The city spending a significant part of the trial on the question of whether his son stole a car. Omari Salisbury, the journalist who chronicled CHOP more extensively than anyone else, and who was born and raised in this city, said he'd seen versions of this story before. Imagine being a young kid here under the circumstances that he died in. The narrative is this guy just ran away from home. He was hanging out with the thugs, came for a good time. You feel me? Just another nigga dead, another whatever, and everything else, man. and how Seattle would his humanity switch.

40:43I don't know. Do we show some humanity or not? Omari thinks about this in terms of what he calls Seattle's humanity switch. He says when someone Black is killed, people in the city look for reasons to turn away, to not have to care. And in this case, blaming Antonio might be how people who know something about his death justify their silence. Blaming Antonio could be the very thing protecting his killer.

41:16But that meant who Antonio really was got erased. That's why it was a big deal when we got a glimpse of who Antonio was during the handful of days he was in Seattle. You've heard some of this tape before. It was nestled in dozens of hours of footage that Omari Salisbury shared with us from his coverage of the protests in 2020. A video of Antonio speaking to a small crowd of protesters three days before he was killed. The police, their purpose is to serve and protect, right? Yes. And we agree with their purpose, but we do not agree with them because of what they've been doing. They have not been serving and protecting.

41:58Antonio is standing shoulder to shoulder with a leading activist at CHOP, talking about police reform. The clip of Antonio talking is only about a minute long. But it's the only recording we have of Antonio in Seattle before the night of his death. And I'm tired of this. And at some point, we're going to fight back. We've been peaceful, but you're pushing us to the edge. And as you can see, as a Black people, as a whole, we have been calm. We felt we needed to show Antonio Sr. this video before we put it out in the world for everyone else to see. And we also wanted to be completely sure that it really was Antonio Jr.

42:36on the screen. So we call Antonio Sr. on Zoom. He's at home in California, taking care of his youngest son, a one-year-old. And let me know if you can hear sound. Yeah, I can hear that. Another point for what you're saying, which is bringing all the protesters as well. We start playing the video, and then we stop. Do you want to pause it for a sec? Is that my boy right there? That's what we wanted to ask you.

43:15Antonio Sr., overwhelmed, moves off screen and asks for a break. He calls us back later. When Antonio came on the screen earlier today, you recognized him in a second. We didn't tell you Antonio was on the screen. You recognized him instantly, but he's all covered up. He's got the surgical mask on. He's got some baseball cap. What about him did you recognize? I saw his hand, and I see his neck. I see his skin tone. I see these features that I know because I raised them. I've watched these hands grow. You know, I've watched my son. I raised him. I know him. I don't care what he, you know, all covered up.

44:05You understand? That's my boy. This is the first time we've been able to see video of Antonio at the protest itself. You know, it's like a gift from God just cracking the heavens wide open and letting the sun come gaping through. You know, he's speaking his own testimony right there. You know, anything that anybody will ever tell you that knew my son will tell you he is exactly that. You know, he's respectable. You know, he's caring, you know, and he's supportive. And he says loud and clear, we're protesting peacefully. You know, that's his stance. He's got a peaceful stance. And look who he's surrounded by.

44:57He went up there and identified with professionals and intellectuals. At 16 years old, with your testosterone pumping out your ears, you know, to identify with intellectuals like that and present yourself in a respectful way. you know, in a zone full of chaos and anarchy, and that's how he resurfaces? Oh, that's my boy. At some point during the summer of 2020 in Seattle, a switch got turned off. And this, this life with all of its complexity and all of its potential was lost. In his letter to you, he said that he wanted to make you proud And it seems like as you watch this video, you felt pride.

45:47An overwhelming amount. An overwhelming amount. Couldn't even talk to you guys earlier. An overwhelming amount. Just like a bucket just poured on me and it's more than I can handle. Automatically. It's not even close to, you put your hands out there, your hands ain't going to hold that. Your arms ain't going to hold it. Just break in it. Proud. and his letter C.S. says he's going to make me proud. I was already proud. I was already proud.

46:44We Keep Us Safe from NPR's Embedded is a collaboration with The Seattle Times and KUOW. You can see new police body cam footage from the night of the shooting on our series page. Visit npr.org slash CHOP to watch. The series is reported and written by me, Sydney Brownstone, David Gutman, and Will James. This episode was edited by Luis Treas and Laura Grenius, with support from Katie Simon. This episode was produced by Dan Gurma. Additional production support from Sarah Wyman and Abby Wendell. Our senior producer is Adelina Lansianese. Additional reporting by Omari Salisbury and Daveed Goodherts.

47:30Research and fact-checking by Dania Solomon and Miyoko Wolfe. Jimmy Keeley mastered the episode Music in this episode by Audio Network, Audio Socket Blue Dot Sessions Jonathan Barlow, Ramtin Arablewe and Universal Music Production Voice acting by Danny Hensel, Charlotte Isidore Dan Gurma, Ben Rapoport Bree Seeley Adelina Lansianis and Luis Treas Our managing editor of Standards and Practices is Tony Cabin The deputy editor for editorial review is Nadia Lancey. Johannes Durgey and Micah Ratner provided legal support. Special thanks to Matt Canham, Gigi Dubon, Phyllis Fletcher, and Ravenna Koenig for all your invaluable feedback, as well as attorney Kathy George.

48:21Thanks to Omari Salisbury and Converge Media for video recordings and crucial insights about the timeline of events surrounding the Seattle protests of 2020. The showrunner and senior supervising editor of Embedded is Katie Simon. Liana Simstrom is senior supervising producer. Irene Noguchi is executive producer. Yolanda Sanguene is NPR's vice president for content. And Tommy Evans is NPR's editor-in-chief. For KUOW, Brandon Sweeney is Director of New Content. Our Chief Content Officer is Marshall Eisen. For the Seattle Times, Laura Granius leads our investigations team. Michelle Matassa-Flores is our Executive Editor.

49:04Thank you to our video team, Sam Melbourne-Weaver, Nick Michael, John Poole, and Sering Bista, all at NPR, as well as Megan Farmer at KUOW. Our website design is courtesy of Allison Hurt and Brent Jones at NPR. Thank you to the digital team at the Seattle Times, Sean Martin and Frank Minna for their support. Thanks also to Michaela Giannotti-Boyle at KOW, as well as Adam Zisman, June Jennings, Kristen Hume, Jordan Postuma, Sergio Romano, and Russell Gossett at NPR. The embedded team also includes Raina Cohen and Damiano Marchetti. And a big thanks to our NPR Plus supporters. Embedded is where we do ambitious, long-form journalism at NPR, and NPR Plus helps keep that work going.

49:55If you'd like to email the show, you can reach out at embedded at npr.org. I'm Sydney Brownstone. I'm Will James. This is Embedded from NPR. Thanks for listening.

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