In short
The search for missing American journalist Austin Tice in Syria, framed by the fall of Bashar al-Assad and the discovery of secret detention sites and records, including “Palestine Branch” (Syrian Military Intelligence 215/235). The episode also shows how U.S. hostage diplomacy and competing tips have failed to produce definitive answers, until alleged intelligence files are found.
Guests (named in transcript)
Deborah Tice, Austin Tice’s mother (appears via Meet the Press segment). Roger Carstens, U.S. Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs (appears in a recorded interview). Josh Baker (host/narrator), Sarah Obidat (investigative producer), Uday al-Hussein (field producer) are mentioned but not as guests.
Guest backgrounds
Deborah Tice is a civilian parent seeking her son’s whereabouts. Roger Carstens is a former elite soldier and chief negotiator leading U.S. hostage efforts.
Key claims
Austin was likely held in Syrian intelligence facilities; the Assad regime ran mass detention and killings; the U.S. lacks proof of Austin’s status and has never received proof-of-life; “black box” intelligence yields conflicting information; alleged Austin files are recovered from a locked safe.
Notable examples
scanning cells at Palestine Branch; using UV light to reveal hidden writing; discovering a “ghost hospital” basement with refrigerated bodies and files marked “foreigners”; a false social-media claim involving a man mistaken for Austin; a reported tip that Austin is in a cell near an Israeli-bombed weapons depot; and the final finding of “hundreds of pages” of Austin’s secret Syrian intelligence files.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOA Changing Syria: The Fall of Assad
0:18 to 5:39
A narrative detailing the aftermath of Assad's regime and its impact on Syria.
“Listen now to a special episode of Sources and Methods, the national security podcast from NPR.”
Searching for Austin Tice
5:43 to 14:03
An investigation into the potential locations of journalist Austin Tice within Syria.
“If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you.”
Surveillance and Distrust in Syria
14:03 to 14:36
Explore the pervasive atmosphere of distrust and surveillance in Syria.
“You're incredibly articulate, thank you.”
The Search for Missing Persons
14:40 to 15:18
Learn about the ongoing search for those who disappeared after detention.
“Across Syria, scenes of liberation, as thousands emerge from detention centres.”
The Challenge of Finding Austin Tice
15:24 to 16:00
Understand the complexities of locating Austin Tice amidst many prisoners.
“Austin is just one case amongst tens of thousands, but his is getting huge attention.”
Searching for Hidden Cells
16:02 to 16:59
Join the search for hidden cells and the grim realities uncovered.
“following rumours of a network of hidden cells underground.”
Misidentification and Confusion
17:00 to 17:58
Discuss the confusion surrounding misidentification in the search for Austin.
“Some of the sites we search are prisons.”
A Mother's Hope
18:56 to 19:39
Deborah Tice shares her unwavering hope and the search for her son.
“How do you feel right now about your chances of finding Austin?”
Pursuing New Leads
19:41 to 20:32
Follow the search as new leads about Austin's possible location emerge.
“There's a location they ask me to check.”
A Dangerous Encounter
20:33 to 22:05
Experience a tense moment as the team faces armed individuals.
“Beyond them, a light mist drifts over the road.”
Show all 19 chapters
Deborah's Plea to Israel
22:06 to 22:49
Deborah Tice reaches out to the Israeli Prime Minister regarding airstrikes.
“Tice may have been held in a prison near an area Israel has bombed.”
Expanding the Search
22:50 to 23:26
The search broadens to a former hospital where injured prisoners were sent.
“that most Syrian families could never get to.”
Exploring the Ghost Hospital
23:27 to 25:19
Investigate an eerie, abandoned hospital looking for potential leads.
“So we're literally pulling up to the ER arrival bit here.”
Discovering the Hidden Truths
25:20 to 28:00
Uncover disturbing evidence of the regime's brutality within the hospital.
“This is somebody's body that's been dragged hundreds of meters.”
Tensions in the Hospital
28:00 to 30:00
Explore the sensitive atmosphere surrounding the rebels and the issue of missing people in Syria.
“And there's a section marked foreigners.”
Meeting with US Officials
30:00 to 31:50
Join the narrator as they meet with US Special Envoy Roger Carstens to discuss Austin Tice.
“It was quietly killing tens of thousands of them.”
Insights on Austin Tice's Situation
31:50 to 34:25
Gain insight into the uncertainty surrounding Austin Tice's fate and the complexities of the situation.
“We walk upstairs flanked by bodyguards to a secure room.”
Insights on Austin Tice's Situation
35:22 to 35:37
Gain insight into the uncertainty surrounding Austin Tice's fate and the complexities of the situation.
“If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you.”
A Race Against Time
36:08 to 40:56
Follow the narrator's intense search for information about Austin Tice in an intelligence facility.
“It's one of our most sensitive contacts.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This week on Sources and Methods, behind closed doors at the highest levels of the intelligence community on 9-11. We said you can go. If we have to die, we have to die. And how that day is still shaping global events. Difficult decisions were made. We have shortchanged totally our soft power. Listen now to a special episode of Sources and Methods, the national security podcast from NPR.
0:23Josh Baker:I just wanted to make you aware that there is some content in this episode that you may find upsetting.
0:33Josh Baker:There are moments in history where everything changes, where you mark a before and an after. This is one of them.
0:50Josh Baker:It's the 8th of December, 2024. A Syrian news anchor appears on television. He pauses. glances at his watch and then looks up and speaks directly to the nation.
1:09Josh Baker:He says it's now exactly 18 minutes past six in Damascus. This is Syria without President Bashar al-Assad. The regime has fallen.
1:31Josh Baker:I struggle to stay on my feet as the crowd surges in downtown Damascus. A burst of sunlight strikes a flag that's draped across a man's back. It's the flag of the revolution. Wearing that here just a few days ago would have gotten you killed. But now, 50 years of rule by the Assad family in Syria is over.
2:06Away from the crowd, Damascus feels suspended,
2:10Josh Baker:like it's holding its breath. Shops are mostly shuttered. Streets are virtually empty. Overnight, the army vanished. The police are also gone. Their deserted vehicles litter the roads.
2:28Josh Baker:In some neighbourhoods, fighting has broken out between loyalists of the Assad regime and the group that's driven them from power.
2:40Josh Baker:I can hear surveillance drones above us. They're watching everything. Beneath their gaze, black smoke rises from airstrikes that are falling across Damascus.
2:55Josh Baker:Sometimes they land nearby. It's the Israeli Air Force striking what it says are Syrian weapons stockparks. They say they don't want armed groups to have them.
3:10Josh Baker:Across the city, pictures have started to appear on walls. Each photo is someone's parent, sibling or child. More than 100 ,000 people have gone missing since the civil war began. Many vanished into Syria's prison system, just like Austin Tice, an American journalist who disappeared more than a decade ago while working here.
3:40Josh Baker:This is the backdrop to our search for Austin. I've been given a purple folder. It contains coordinates that were gathered by Western intelligence agencies for where Austin might be. And for the first time, with the regime gone, we can get inside those facilities. So despite the situation being chaotic and dangerous, we're going to search those sites across Damascus one by one. Because somewhere in the ruins of this regime lies the truth about what happened to Austin Tice. I'm Josh Baker, and from BBC Radio 4 and NPR's Embedded, This is Where is Austin Tice? Series 3 of I'm Not a Monster Presents Episode 2 A Black Box
5:09This message comes from BetterHelp. Imagine carrying a backpack every day. Inside it, every conversation, every mistake, every expectation. It is easy not to notice how heavy it is until someone asks if you want to put it down. Sometimes feeling better starts exactly like that. Better isn't one size fits all. Better is personal. It's therapy tailored to the individual to help lighten what you carry. Match with a therapist who truly understands. Visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you.
5:52Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
6:05Josh Baker:Here are coordinates relating to Austin's location. And this goes back some time, right? So the difficulty is knowing which locations are more relevant. My colleague Sarah and I are at a hotel going through the purple folder that contains the list of locations where Austin might be held. Some are prisons, but others seem to be secret facilities. Can I have a look at the locations? Yeah. OK, let me see. On the left-hand side, this is the branch number, like 215. So this is Syrian military intelligence 215. This is a notorious branch. I know some people who were held there and there were always allegations of torture that came out of that prison.
6:55Okay, so this is Syrian military intelligence 235. It's like colloquially known as Palestine branch.
7:02Josh Baker:Right, which is what our other source told us. Do you remember? Yeah. 235 Palestine Branch. That's the same location, Salam, the source I met in the English countryside, had told me that Austin was held at. And now I'm seeing it in these files. So we head there.
7:28Salam alaikum.
7:32Josh Baker:All good? Good. It's kind of amazing how easily he can get the gates open for us. He's from the same area that the rebels are from. Right. So there's trust. Our Syrian producer, Uday al-Hussein, is from Idlib, the heart of the revolution. And that helps when you're asking armed men to open a gate. Palestine branch, as it's known locally, got its name because it was originally set up to deal with security matters relating to Palestinians in Syria. But over time, its remit expanded dramatically, reaching into every corner of Syrian society, making it part of the regime's darker machinery. Surveillance, interrogation, detention.
8:25Josh Baker:It's a tall concrete building surrounded by high walls and barbed wire. We're told all the prisoners are gone, but Austin hasn't been found.
8:40Josh Baker:When someone disappears, you don't just look for the person. You look for traces, a record, a cell, a name scratched into a wall. Being methodical matters. Because you never know what detail might help you find them.
9:02Josh Baker:Look at this. What? Well, in this room, you have an interrogation room with the camera there, yeah? Look at the mirror. Yeah. And then come round to this room.
9:16Josh Baker:Comfy chairs. To watch. It's a one-way mirror. Right. It's the interrogation room, isn't it? The Palestine branch. This is an infamous room. So many people were taken to Palestine branch at the beginning of the uprising and investigated here, or interrogated, which often meant also abused. If you turn your torch off and I close the door, can you see how dark it is in there? Yeah, pitch black. And you'd just have the noises of the prison outside, you would be absolutely terrified. Yeah. It would drive you insane.
10:11The cells are here.
10:17Josh Baker:Oh God, it's awful in here. Must do. Oh, God, this one just smells of urine. Ugh, the smell. Somebody's written a message in the wall on blood. Siles are partially flooded outside. Oh.
10:43Josh Baker:I almost don't want his mum to see this. I just think the upset it would cause. to know that these are the kind of conditions that your son was held in. Yeah. Clearly an English speaker was here. Oh, wow, lots of English in here. United Kingdom. Italia. So foreign prisoners in here, then. The walls are covered in names, dates and messages to loved ones. Each cell reveals a trace of a person. Slithers of used soap, brittle toothbrushes, even scraps of food that seemed to have been hidden away. I've been told by Austin's father, Mark, that he might have left signs if he was ever captured. Nothing that says Austin was here.
11:37Josh Baker:Something less obvious meant to slip past the eyes of the regime, but be recognisable to the right person. He's given me a list of phrases and markers to look for. I'm going to take my glasses. So I'm taking out a UV light. As grim as it sounds, urine can be used as this kind of invisible ink. The writing doesn't appear until you shine an ultraviolet light over it. It's a way to leave a trace that hides in plain sight. I switch the light on. Suddenly, the walls come alive with even more scribbles and marks. There's something that's been drawn on here. I don't know if you can see it. I can't see that at all.
12:26There's a bunch of English letters here.
12:28Josh Baker:I passed from here in March. We scan cell after cell, and words do appear, but nothing that points to Austin. I glance over at our Syrian producer, Oday. He's hunched forward. His energy has drained away. It must be quite a strange feeling to be in here as a Syrian.
13:04He's saying, I've lost so many people, friends, relatives, people who I really care about, that have basically been disappeared. I know that technically we won, but it doesn't feel like we won when the price was so high. We lost so many people who could have been part of this country, who just disappeared because of such basic rights that they wanted, like freedom of speech and freedom of thought.
13:41It's very hard. Look at what Bashar al-Assad's rule did. Look how he treated his people. Something inside me just keeps getting more and more claustrophobic because of how sad I feel and how bitter it is. I'm sorry.
14:03Josh Baker:You're incredibly articulate, thank you.
14:10There's a really sad writing on the wall that said, don't trust anyone, even your own brother.
14:18Josh Baker:Are you serious? Which speaks volumes about the level of surveillance in this place. There are a lot of stories about even mothers sometimes having to tell on their kids or wives and husbands telling on their spouses. It's grim. Anyway, did you find anything? I didn't find anything. No, I found nothing. Shall we try somewhere else? Yeah, let's go somewhere else.
14:52Josh Baker:Across Syria, scenes of liberation, as thousands emerge from detention centres. Search for the tens of thousands of people who disappeared after being detained. Men, women and even children are walking free from Syrian prisons. People are being found every day, but many are also still missing. Families continue to search prisons and hospitals for news of their missing loved ones. Rescuers search for secret underground cells, scenes of torture and execution under the Assad regime. Austin is just one case amongst tens of thousands, but his is getting huge attention. To the search for American Austin Tice in Syria.
15:37Josh Baker:The U.S. government is sending a message to the world that finding Austin is a national priority. But Syria is scattered with prisons and prisoners. So looking for Austin is a bit like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. Rescue crews have been searching the vast mountain compound for days, following rumours of a network of hidden cells underground. Hidden prisons are being uncovered across the country, even by us. We're searching every location that's mentioned in the purple folder, and even more, day after day. We go to dozens of facilities. This looks like a secret passage. I mean, I'm literally staring into a concealed room.
16:32Josh Baker:Look at this. It's a log of people's fingerprints. This place would have been crawling with Syrian armed forces. It's just got out to open a big steel gate, and now we're driving into a compound. Look at this. Look at this. Oh, wow. Like, clearly somebody was here. It almost looks like an apartment complex. I can see already that some of the rooms have been burned. Some of the sites we search are prisons. Others are grand buildings with marble floors and chandeliers. But behind the opulence are hidden detention rooms. And there are secret cells dug deep underground. Can you imagine how terrifying it would be to be led into this dark underground passage?
17:20Yeah, and it's cold.
17:23Josh Baker:There's an unexploded grenade there, excellent, without the pin in it. Where do you want to go now?
Read the full transcript
17:33Josh Baker:There's no sign of Austin yet. And there's something else we're having to contend with. A sea of new information and tips about him. Since the US government offered$10 million for information, so many people claim to know where Austin is. Then social media explodes with news that Austin has been found. And a reporter posts a video. Everybody's telling you that you're Austin Tice. They thought that you're Austin Tice first. No, I came on a religious pilgrimage. I'm a Christian. It's another American called Travis Timmerman from Missouri. He says he's been held for seven months in Syria. The US government didn't know.
18:21Josh Baker:A sign of how hard it can be to keep track of who is or isn't in prison here. He looks a lot like Austin, though. So Austin's mother, Deborah, is asked to comment. And joining me now is Deborah Tice, Austin's mother. Welcome to Meet the Press, Mrs. Tice. Thank you for being here. How did that moment unfold for you? We had so many people reaching out. This is so great. What a wonderful day. And so it's almost like having a rehearsal. Just an inkling of what it's going to really feel like. when it is Austin walking free. How do you feel right now about your chances of finding Austin? You know, there was a man that had been held in silence for 34 years and he was reunited with his family.
19:11We're just really excited about being a reunited family.
19:16Josh Baker:Deborah is convinced Austin will be found at any moment. She draws hope from the fragments of information that hinted his whereabouts. We're in contact with Austin's family and some of the people closest to them. And every so often, they reach out with a tip, a name, a rumour about where Austin might be. I get a message on my phone. There's a location they ask me to check. What happened? We believe Austin Tice is in a cell several storeys down under this mountain outside of Damascus. a Syrian-Iranian weapons depot that the Israelis are trying to blow up. Because of their bombardment, people on the ground are unable to check this prison.
20:08OK. They bombed that yesterday. Yeah, yeah.
20:14Josh Baker:That's where they think Austin is. What do you think, Uday? You want to go there now? By a stroke of luck, we happen to be just ten minutes away. So we start to snake our way up a mountain road towards the location. The beams of a die's headlights carve a narrow path through the night. Beyond them, a light mist drifts over the road. Is there a facility up there? There's no other cars, just whatever's waiting at the top. Oh, gunshots. Oh, that was close. Let's go. We can't even see. I've got to turn around the other way. Wait, who's this person? There's someone coming down. Look, with a gun. Yeah, yeah.
21:09Josh Baker:As we try to drive away, men in combat fatigues with guns emerge from the roadside and stop the car. They were just shooting at us. We try to calm the situation. Salaam alaikum. What did you want to do? Mahaba. Hello.
21:31They said that please forgive us for being so jumpy.
21:37Josh Baker:When they say jumpy, do they mean please forgive us for shooting at you? Yes. They were apparently there yesterday when the Israelis struck, so they lost a lot of people. If these guys are stationed around there, would they not have found him? We do check with the men. They tell us they searched the facility and nobody was there. There's still a lot of confusion. Syria tonight, Israel launching massive airstrikes as an American mother now pleads with Israel to hold off in Syria until she can find her son. He has credible information. Tice may have been held in a prison near an area Israel has bombed.
22:18Josh Baker:Deborah has written to the Israeli Prime Minister asking him to halt airstrikes because she believes they're preventing Austin's rescue. And he writes back, saying Israel is coordinating with the Americans to avoid putting Austin in danger. The fact he responds says something about the weight Austin's case carries. He has a huge media campaign behind him and he's also an American citizen. That means his disappearance can reach people in the corridors of power that most Syrian families could never get to. And yet, nobody has found Austin, including us. For more than a week, we've searched every location listed in the purple folder for where he might be held.
23:12Josh Baker:So we broaden our search. There's a former regime hospital where injured prisoners were sent. Maybe Austin passed through there.
23:25Yeah, we're in. Back in the country.
23:32Josh Baker:So we're literally pulling up to the ER arrival bit here. God, this is eerie. Can you see there's still tea on the side? That hasn't been drunk.
23:51This is definitely a pretty untouched site.
23:57Josh Baker:Hospitals generate paperwork, medical files, transfer notes. If Austin was here, the regime may have written it down. Sarah's reported on this facility and has been told there is a records room in the basement. At the emergency room entrance, a man with an AK-47 slung across his chest agrees to escort us. He says the building hasn't been searched and those who worked here have fled, so no-one knows what's inside.
24:34Wow, it's literally like a ghost hospital.
24:40Josh Baker:The lights are still on, the phone's still at the reception desk. There's even a doctor's stethoscope at the window. We head down a narrow stairwell to the basement. The air turns thick with dust and the light fades. This is where the detainees would be, this floor. So it's underground. And they'd come into the hospital and be kept here. Can I show you something? Yeah. You see this line across the floor beneath me? Yeah. This is blood. Right. Follow this line of blood along the floor. I know it's really disturbing. This is somebody's body that's been dragged hundreds of meters. Oh, it smells. So the bloodline stops about, there you go, that's the last train of it.
25:36Josh Baker:Wow. Right outside the doors. I think I can open the door. I think we're the first people to come inside. Everyone's covering their nose because of the smell. On your left appears to be what looks like coffins to me. So these are refrigerated units, which I imagine there will be bodies in. Is there? Yes. You okay? Yes, there are loads of bodies in there. Okay, come this way.
26:15They're thrown on the floor, legs. like I just saw the legs and the lower body of a body with too many legs like on top of each other. I don't know how many, maybe like eight.
26:28Josh Baker:Are you OK? Yeah, it's OK.
26:35Josh Baker:The bodies appear to be a mix of Syrian soldiers, possibly patients and prisoners. It's hard to know exactly who each person was. At the end of the corridor, we find rooms stacked floor to ceiling with files. It's what we've been looking for. Oh, my God. What's that? There's a folder of dead people. This person's been starved, and it's got the number on it. This is horrific. They have the names and numbers on them. There was one file just labelled as body parts. Oh, Jesus Christ. What? Looks like a child. Yeah, I was just thinking the same. This is a horror show. It turns out these aren't medical records of the living.
27:34Josh Baker:They belong to the dead. We find photographs of thin, starved bodies, bruises, cuts, signs of violence. Some files list the cause of death as heart attack. But the people's injuries tell a different story. Each act of cruelty has been documented. It's a catalogue of suffering, a quiet archive of the regime's brutality. And there's a section marked foreigners. As we pick up one of those files, the man with the AK-47, who's escorting us, gets very nervous. He's just had a phone call. What's going on? He's very fidgety suddenly and he's like, get out of here, all of you, everyone out. We're not allowed to even touch a paper, he's standing.
28:30Josh Baker:The issue of Syria's missing is becoming increasingly sensitive for the rebels who are now in charge. Across the country, families are demanding answers. And those in power are trying to control both the prison sites and the story around them. Suddenly, we're told they don't want media here, which means we can't keep searching this place for any trace of Austin. As we walk back through the hospital complex, everything we've just seen weighs on my mind. A row of houses comes into view, each with its own lush green garden. The senior staff would live here with their families on the hospital grounds.
29:18Can you imagine being in that garden with your kids and then just over there the probable screams that would echo out of that building? No, I can't actually. and how you'd have to have completely, like,
29:37Josh Baker:othered and dehumanised those people to accept that. Let's go.
29:48Josh Baker:Prisoners were brought to this hospital in pain and vulnerable. They needed care. Instead, they were met with abuse and death. The regime wasn't just putting people in jail. It was quietly killing tens of thousands of them.
30:16Josh Baker:Can you see all the American special forces, security guys with earpieces in, armoured vehicles? The Americans love to let people know when they're in town. It's about conveying a message of, I wouldn't mess with us. Twelve days after Assad's fall, an American delegation has driven into Damascus to meet the new people in charge. One of the items on their agenda is Austin Tice. They're under pressure to get answers about what happened to him.
30:54Josh Baker:They're at the Four Seasons, a place of chandeliers, fine dining and backroom deals. For more than a decade, it's been a central meeting point for Syrian diplomacy. Right now, it feels like the country is being run from here. Amongst the American delegation, there's the FBI and special forces, basically people in balaclavas with big guns. And then there's the diplomats, sharp suits, notepads in hand. I can see Roger. Hey guys, how are we doing? Nice to see you here. How are you doing? How are you? I'm doing good. How are you guys doing? You want to go talk? I think they're going to take us upstairs for security reasons.
31:36Josh Baker:That makes perfect sense. This is Roger Carstens, the US Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs, a former elite soldier turned chief negotiator. I've met him and his team before because they lead on the diplomatic effort to bring Austin home. We walk upstairs flanked by bodyguards to a secure room. You good? Yeah. I put a mic on Roger. He's got limited time and is keen to start. I'm just curious about what the US is basically doing now to try to find Austin and what your belief is about his situation. We've been trying to find any information, whether they be interviews or documents that have come up, to try to help us fine-tune, A, where Austin is, B, what happened to him, and C, what's the status.
32:27The number of secret prisons that keep popping up, it's well beyond what we expected. It's just hard to comprehend.
32:33Josh Baker:Given all the information that you're privy to, that the public is not, given the current circumstance, are you beginning to be worried that Austin is no longer alive? Look, there's no proof that Austin is deceased. And so I have to assume that he's alive and he's still waiting for us to find him. I get that. Is it fair to say that over the years there has been so much conflicting information about whether he is alive, he isn't alive, that it is a real mixed picture? Well, if I answer that fully, I would go to jail. But I think picture someone disappearing in Syria that to an extent is a black box in terms of gathering information and having sources provide you information that is partially true, false, true.
33:22Josh Baker:And we just have a hard time trying to verify it. Is that a diplomat's way of saying, yes, we have lots of conflicting theories? Again, not wanting to go to jail. Yes. Yeah. 30 seconds. Can I ask, like, have the regime ever confirmed to you that Austin is alive? They've never confirmed that. They've never offered POL, proof of life, and they've never admitted to ever having him. So when we've talked to them, it's always been under their strong denials that they never had Austin Tice. Thanks. I know you're being pulled to your next meeting. Guys, thank you. All right, I'm going to sprint. I watch Roger disappear into a cloud of security.
34:06Josh Baker:What stuns me is this. Despite years of public statements from presidents and diplomats that suggested they could get Austin home, the US government doesn't seem to know definitively who took Austin or what happened to him, or even whether he's still alive. I'd assumed there was some certainty somewhere, a piece of intelligence that answered those questions? Apparently, there isn't. It's a very different picture from what Deborah Tice believes. I don't know who's correct, but right now, nobody seems to know where Austin is.
34:59your business meets AI because AI is built into everything you do. It automatically surfaces custom insights throughout your day. AI agents work alongside you to solve problems. It's just like you're having a conversation with a colleague. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, try NetSuite next for free. Go to netsuite.ai slash story. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. History is intriguing, but unlike the present, it can feel far off.
35:44On NPR's ThruLine, we bring it back to life. And put you in the middle of it. Go inside the stories from then that shaped the world we live in now. Find NPR's ThruLine wherever you get your podcasts.
36:07Josh Baker:As we drive across town, I get a message. Are you still in Damascus? I reply, yes. It's one of our most sensitive contacts. they ask that I never reveal their name because sharing information with us could pose a risk to their job and their life. They tell me they have a person working on the ground in Syria and that they found a Syrian commander who claims to know where crucial information about Austin Tice is located. And the commander has agreed to go on FaceTime and guide our source's person to the information. and they say we can go with them. So we head to an intelligence facility. The guard tells us we can enter, but we must be out by sunset.
36:58Josh Baker:So we only have around half an hour.
37:04Josh Baker:Right, we've just got inside.
37:09Josh Baker:We're literally racing from room to room. He's on FaceTime. Video call with the commander.
37:23Josh Baker:There's still a padlock on the gate. The commander says we have to get through a locked door at the end of a corridor. There doesn't seem to be any way. But then I glance to my right. There's a narrow ledge that would allow me to climb around it. OK. It's not working, I'm going to climb over. But it's above a five-story drop. The commander says getting past this gate is the only way to get answers about Austin. So I tell myself it's fine, only half believing it. I take a deep breath, swing over the edge and reach for the wall. OK. My hands find grip on the dusty concrete. With my legs dangling, I pull myself up.
38:16Josh Baker:I should get round the lock gate.
38:20Josh Baker:I'm just pushing a door so you can get in. Go, go, go. Oh, yes, you're in. OK. You have torch? OK. Go, go, go. The man and Sarah come through and we enter the roof. In front of us is a massive locked safe. He's saying, can you go look for the keys in the general's office? The Syrian commander messages to say to open the safe, we need a key. And that's in another room around the corner. Along with the key to the gate I've just climbed around. It would have been good to know that earlier. We head to the room. He's saying we need to look here.
39:13Okay, we just need to sweep this.
39:16Josh Baker:If I lift this up, can you look underneath?
39:25I have nothing here.
39:30Josh Baker:On this hand?
39:35Josh Baker:Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
39:40Maybe. Yeah, maybe.
39:42Josh Baker:Let me go quickly and try. You try. Yeah, keep looking.
39:51Josh Baker:I'm lost. Why am I lost?
39:58Josh Baker:Okay, hold on. No, two more down. One more down. Yes, this is it.
40:11Josh Baker:Okay, let's try the key.
40:18Josh Baker:Yes. Oh, my God, it's the key, it's the key. I've done it, I've done it. Oh, my God, it's open.
40:27Oh, my God.
40:29Josh Baker:We found Austin's file.
40:34Josh Baker:In my hands are Austin Tice's secret Syrian intelligence files. And they're hundreds of pages long. I can't believe we've uncovered them. We take photos to make a copy rather than remove the evidence. These files were never meant to be seen by the outside world. Now, we're about to find out what's inside. Thank you.
41:31Josh Baker:or message me on social media at joshbakerstory. The series is written and showrun by me, Josh Baker. The investigative producer is Sarah Obidat. The series producer is Simon Maben. Field producing by Uday Al-Hussein. Additional producing by Lucy Burns. Open source intelligence by Thomas Bordeaux and Gabor Friesen. Our production coordinator is Gemma Ashman. The series editor is Claire Fordham. The head of BBC News Long Form Audio is Emma Rippon. And at BBC Radio 4, the commissioning editor is Dan Clark. At NPR, our producer is Monica Evstavtieva. Editors are Robert Little and Katie Simon. The composer is Firas Aboufeka.
42:22Josh Baker:Additional music by Karim Shahouri. Theme music by Sam Slater. and it was mixed by Tom Brignall. Fact-checking by Nicolette Kahn and Mary Gland-Inning. Our managing editor of Standards and Practices is Tony Cavett. Editorial review is by Christian Munro. Johannes Dergi provided legal support. The showrunner and senior supervising editor of Embedded is Katie Simon. Liana Simstrom is a senior supervising producer. Irene Noguchi is executive producer Yolanda Sanguene is NPR's vice president for content and Tommy Evans is NPR's editor-in-chief And a big thanks to our NPR Plus supporters Embedded is where we do ambitious long-form journalism at NPR and NPR Plus help keeps that work going If you'd like to email the show You can reach out at embedded at npr.org.
43:52Life Kit on the Life Kit podcast in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
44:01This is Terry Gross, host of Fresh Air. I interviewed feminist icon Gloria Steinem several times over the years, and we've compiled a special episode to celebrate her life and legacy. Women become ourselves after 50. We drop a lot of baggage and really become much more our true yourselves. Find it on the NPR app or wherever you listen to Fresh Air.
From the publisher
Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include early access and sponsor-free listening (perks may vary bit between seasons). Learn more at plus.npr.org.
See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.
NPR Privacy Policy
