Where is Austin Tice?: The driver

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0:19I've known Austin since my freshman year of college and we met because we both did competitive debate. We would go to these tournaments all around the country every weekend and our teams were good friends and eventually it felt like I was, you know, another sister to him. I'm sitting with Lindsay Hamilton trying to understand more about who Austin is and what drove him to go to Syria. I remember there was a moment when he was at Georgetown Law and there was a speaker that he disagreed with and so he stood with his back to the speaker in the room. Sort of an idealism then? Oh, absolutely. You saw this carry through to him going to Syria.

0:59When he was reporting there, were you ever worried about him? Oh yeah. I tried not to be. I read his Facebook post. I know he didn't want us to be. Do you have that Facebook post? I've never seen it. Oh, the quit telling me to be safe? Hold on, let me find it. He says, It's nice and all, but please quit telling me to be safe. People keep telling me to be safe, as if that's an option. Keep asking me why I'm doing this crazy thing. Keep asking what's wrong with me for coming here. So listen, our granddads stormed Normandy and Iwo Jima and defeated global fascism. Neil Armstrong flew to the moon in a glorified trash can, doing math on a clipboard as he went, because they thought it was the right thing to do.

1:40Austin wrote this back in the summer of 2012, while he was reporting from Syria. I read this as part defence, part manifesto. He writes about bravery, about living for something bigger, comparing his journey to that of soldiers who fought fascism and pioneering astronauts, people who shaped the world we live in. I think the most important part is probably this paragraph. No, I don't have a death wish, I have a life wish. So I'm living in a place at a time and with a people where life means more than anywhere I've ever been because every single day people here lay down their own for the sake of others.

2:17Coming here to Syria is the greatest thing I've ever done and it's the greatest feeling of my life. As somebody that's known Austin since he was 19 years old, what do you see in that when you read it? I probably remember rolling my eyes a bit at him because I'm like, oh, Austin, you know, that's so big, right? It's a big post. And I think he went to Syria because he thought he could really change the world and impact things by doing it. But I also think he went there because he had developed comfort in war zones that frankly, nobody should have to develop, but he did. I hope I get to talk to him about it.

2:57I've spoken to a lot of people about Austin, friends, colleagues, even a Marine he served with. They describe him as smart, charming, physically capable. But I also hear about another side to him. Someone who's overconfident, who could misjudge risk for himself and sometimes for others. One friend even worried he was carrying mental trauma from Iraq and Afghanistan. From everything I've heard, Austin left America with a lot going on and very high expectations of what his life should become. It feels like his decision to go to Syria was more complicated than simply wanting to be a war journalist.

3:43I've been retracing his route, and now I want to understand how Austin disappeared. I'm Josh Baker from BBC Radio 4 and NPR's Embedded. This is Where Is Austin Tice? Series 3 of I'm Not A Monster Presents. Episode 4, The Driver.

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5:11Listen via the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash switch. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. and opposition intend to fight this to the finish. Thank you. Let's speak to Austin Tice, journalist with the Washington Post, with the Free Syrian Army. What's your understanding of what's going on in Damascus? OK, well, I've been spending my day trying to actually get into the city, which, as you can imagine, is quite difficult right now.

5:50The Syrian army has sealed off of your main entry and exit. So the only way in and out is these sort of windy back roads and gulches and ravines and across the fields. By August 2012, Austin has established himself as a freelance war reporter. He's written front-page stories and given high-profile interviews, all in just a couple of months. Now, more and more people are starting to believe that rebel fighters might take Damascus. The capital, Damascus, saw its heaviest fighting yet. Where rebels and the Syrian army have been locked in fierce battles. Few Western journalists are reporting from the city because it's considered too dangerous.

6:33But that's exactly where Austin wants to go next. Syrian rebels are saying the fight for Damascus is on. The Assad regime or control of Damascus could collapse within 36 hours. This analyst saw strikingly similar online activity. A lot of the coverage made it look like they were going to, like, take over Damascus very soon, right? Like, people were optimistic. And so I think he thought he was going to be in Damascus when the government fell. This is David Enders, the journalist who reported with Austin in Syria for around a month. I've been talking to him as I retrace Austin's journey. He says Austin finally managed to get into Damascus with the help of some people smugglers that he'd met along the way.

7:22what they did was they put an abaya on him and drove through a syrian army checkpoint and so hold on this massive six foot plus man wearing an abaya and like a niqab is dressed as a woman drives through a checkpoint to get into damascus that's how he got into damascus yeah with and apparently they figured it out pretty quick right and so they all had to like run out of the checkpoint i mean he described being shot at as he legged it out of the checkpoint and then back into a rebel-held area. I do not know for a fact that this is true, but this is what he described. Austin tweets about what happened and signs off with, better luck next time, you clowns.

8:11Then he writes a detailed story about sneaking into the city and it's published by the McClatchy News website, who David is also writing for. From a standpoint of his own security, he has now publicly informed the Syrian government that there is an American journalist inside Damascus. And I was in an awkward position as a freelancer, like saying to my boss, I think this is crazy. We shouldn't be using his stuff. I thought people who Austin was working for and reporting to should have been encouraging him to leave.

8:53freelance journalist austin tice is on the outskirts of damascus austin where exactly are you uh hi i'm on a in a small suburb west of damascus it's uh it's called jadeira r2s maybe uh two to three miles west of the of the capital and what's the situation like there on the streets it's a very strange and unique place quite a bit of distrust quite a bit of paranoia about spies for the opposing sides. It's really a pretty tense place, frankly. Once in Damascus, Austin makes his way to an area called Dorea. It's on the outskirts of the city. So that's where my colleague Sarah and I head next.

9:38This is a great place to hide out, isn't it? You've got this rural village on the outskirts of Damascus with tight alleyways and high walls where you can't really see into any of these buildings. Yeah, and lots of little side streets. So, like, it would be hard for the regime to, like, pinpoint exactly where people were.

10:02How are you? Oh, wow. Whoa. What a beautiful property. Really nice. We're meeting a former rebel commander. He's asked us not to use his name as he fears attacks from members of the old regime. We're at his farm. Although it's just a few miles from the palace of Syrian dictator President Assad, this was a rebel hideout. This is like a sanctuary. This is the last place that Austin spoke to his mother from.

10:41He was sitting right here. Are you serious? Yeah, the trees, those long trees were behind him. And there's the swimming pool where Austin had his birthday. Yeah, this is where Austin was swimming, he says. We were able to find this place after Deborah shared pictures of Austin that she was sent from here. It's where he celebrated his 31st birthday. His last tweet was about that day. It says, spent the day at a Free Syrian Army pool party with music by Taylor Swift. They even brought me whiskey. Hands down, best birthday ever. The thing about Austin also was like he was, he just became one of us.

11:33He took all our cigarettes and never even cared about how much he was consuming. We didn't really feel he was a stranger. He was coming to carry stories that we felt were important to get to the U.S. And he wanted to get the story out.

11:55Look. These are photos of Austin. Wow, this is him with fighters. So he's in a photo with 11 fighters. And there's only two people who remain alive today, from the guys in the photo.

12:18He basically spent around 12 to 15 days here. And then at the end of his time, contacted someone to pick him up because he wanted to travel. Can you just talk me through that day, that moment, in as much detail as possible?

12:40It was a regular taxi, like a public taxi. He got into the car. They waited until the car drove off into the distance just to make sure that everything was fine. But Austin knew the guy that he was getting in the car with? But Austin knew the guy that he was getting in the car with. He said hello to him as if he knows him. Just like how I would say hello to somebody that I know, like I've met before.

13:11This is the moment Austin goes missing. The commander says he got into a car with a driver who he seemed to trust. And that tracks with something we've read in Austin's Syrian intelligence files that we found in the safe back in December of 2024. To explain, I need to briefly take you back to that time.

13:38Welcome to Jerusalem, Bethel, Assad, and Jerusalem. I can't fall. Come on. Hi, welcome home. It's really nice to see her this happy. Excuse me. I was standing at the Syrian border with Lebanon with my colleague Sara. A few weeks ago, we'd crossed it in the dead of night. Now, the border was flowing with people returning home. More than six million Syrians. left because of the civil war. Joshua, how are you? How are you? We were there to collect our friend, Nusha Kabawat. Her mother and cousin were also with her. Where shall I sit? Do you want me to go in the middle? You have three very loud Syrian women with big personalities coming home.

14:27Am I going to survive this?

14:32How long has it been since you were here? 14 years. 14 years? I mean, it smells different for sure. It smells a lot like burning diesel from the generators, right? Yeah, exactly, that's what I was saying. It smells like something's burning. And like, yeah, the buildings are dirty. But people are happy. Nusha works in human rights. She's dedicated her career to seeking justice for victims of Assad's crimes. Had she returned to Damascus while Assad was still in power, she would have likely been imprisoned. We didn't give up on the dream of bringing ourselves from Assad. But I think just this idea of coming home with my cousin, the car,

15:19and going, driving to our home where we grew up together, I think that was a dream that we'd all kind of put aside, at least for the time being. The family held hands, crying with relief. But there was a sadness in it too. And over the coming days, I saw that again and again as more Syrians returned. One night in a smoke-filled bar surrounded by bottles of local beer and wine, I watched people dance with total joy. But later, I saw some of those same people sitting alone, quiet. staring into the distance. I wondered if some part of them still felt trapped by the Assad regime. Coming home should have felt like an ending.

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17:45What page is it? Page 53. Around this time, Sarah and I were spending every free moment scouring through the hundreds of pages of Austin's Syrian intelligence files. Page 76 in the fourth file. Yeah, so it says top secret and urgent. And it was in these files that we first saw a mention of the driver as part of an intelligence report. It said Austin left the rail, where the swimming pool is, in a car with the driver. That matches what the commander told us. But neither him nor the files can give us anything to help identify the driver. However, there was something else. A couple of references to a Syrian man called George Chawi, suggesting he was involved in Austin's abduction.

18:41I'm going to have to fact check that. The handwriting is terrible. So we started asking around about George. And it turned out that Nusha, who we met at the border, knows who he is. We asked her to come to our hotel. He was just a guy, you know, who owned a lot of bars and who was social and around and was good looking, I guess. He's a tall, dark hair, you know, personable. Like, yeah, he was charismatic. People liked him. So I kind of want to know everything I can about him, because he maybe had some involvement in Austin Tice's initial abduction, or he knew something about it. Well, I didn't know about the Austin Tice thing, but it's interesting and I wouldn't be shocked.

19:26Really? When the revolution started, he took it upon himself to become part of the Syrian electronic army. And they used to go and monitor and track Syrians online and then report them back to the regime and to then get them caught. So would this be like monitoring their social media and stuff? Exactly, exactly. And this is why when you said Austin Tice, it kind of made the link for me. That's why there was so much fear in Syrian society, is that even if I like to post, I might be detained and tortured. Do you know anything about where George Chowry is now? Like, has he fled? Is he still in the city?

20:02So what I know is that he's in Lebanon. Why? That's what I heard today. We then spent months trying to find George. And eventually, we do get his number. So I call. Hi, is that George? Yeah. Hi, George. He meets us for coffee and then later agrees to an interview. George becomes our next stop in trying to find out how Austin was abducted and who this driver is. Sarah and I set up in a hotel meeting room. where the standout interior design feature is the plain grey walls. You're going to sit there? Yeah. Is this good?

20:50Oh, hello. Hi, George. Hi. Nice to see you. How are you? I'm good. And you? Nice to see you again. Please have a seat. George is tall and muscular, a tough-looking guy. He sits down and takes out a vape. He's just returned from a wellness retreat in Thailand, where he says he went to try and recover from the war. Thailand was a great move, actually. The temple itself, the discipline, living in a dorm, I had to go to zero, you know, touch ground. As the conversation opens up, George gives a contradictory picture. He plays down his links to the regime, but says he met President Assad personally multiple times.

21:37He denies being part of the Syrian Electronic Army, as Nusha mentioned, though the European Union has sanctioned him because it says he was a member. He also denies reporting people to the Syrian regime. And then he tells me he's been helping the FBI with their investigation into Austin's disappearance. So how did you come to be involved with Austin's case? I was contacted by this guy. I met him on the ground while in Homs, as I recall, as I met many other people. His name at the time was Abu Ahmad. Nobody used to give their real names. He's like, listen, I know of this reporter. He wants to come to Damascus, but the suburbs of Damascus, it was Daraya.

22:27Daraya makes sense. That's where Austin spent his birthday, with the rebel commander at the swimming pool. I told him, OK, did he enter the country illegally? He's like, well, obviously, yes. And he sent his backpack with me. This guy had Austin's backpack? Yes. I'm like, OK, come by, let's meet up, let me see what he has in this backpack, and I'll make a phone call to the people responsible from the government's side, asking them about this matter. So the guy passed by. He showed me the backpack. It had a laptop. It had, I think, a MacBook. Opened it. It was locked, a password. I just closed the laptop, put it back in the backpack.

23:14So this is somebody Austin's working with? Definitely he needed a car to move. George is talking about Austin's driver. It could be the guy we're looking for, who picked Austin up in the red taxi after his birthday. According to George, he was betraying Austin, secretly taking his rucksack. What was his motivation for contacting you about this? Like, he must want something. Definitely, they all wanted something, either to be paid money or get a special privilege or a special laissez-passer card or a gun licence. anything. They would sell any information to the highest bidder. This is how they worked.

24:03And he didn't even know the name of the guy. So I didn't know. I just knew he was an illegal reporter that happened to be an American. Surely, if he had his rucksack, he must have known the guy's name. I don't know. He never told me. You know, when you open the laptop and there's a password, there's also a username, right? And a guy has come with you. I mean, you must have known that this, I just find it hard. No, on my laptop, I have a username, but not my name. Just nothing, just a picture. You're saying that that's your only interaction with... Yes. So I made a phone call. They're like, yes, we are interested because this is an illegal case.

24:45We need to detain him. I'm like, okay, you guys deal with him. And then three days later, the guy passes by the coffee shop. It's like the bird is in the cage. He meant Austin, we now know. Obviously, yes. And I haven't seen this guy since. Do you know if he's alive? I don't know. I haven't seen him since. Do you have a phone number for him now? No. Can you describe the guy that brought the laptop? What did he look like? He was short, dark, bearded. They all look the same. In Austin's Syrian intelligence file, which we have, it mentions you potentially being connected to his abduction. So more than just opening a laptop.

25:28That's what they think. What do you mean? This is their information. So probably somebody just threw my name in. In Syria, in the intelligence files, a lot of the information were based on false reports. But you were associated with the regime, the regime that is now considered to be responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. I was associated. I had to work with the regime, definitely. But did you have to get involved? No, I didn't have to be involved. It was a mistake. You think of it as a mistake now? I think I was young and I was...