DEFI Snacks

0:00Tatyana Jones:Welcome to the Emerging Brands podcast. Sharing the stories behind brands you'll want to shop next. I'm your host, Kelly Bennett. I am a New York City-based brand strategist for CPG Food and Beverage Brands. In each episode, I'll take you behind the scenes of founders that are building better-for-you products and bringing them to market. it. Also, I talk to brand builders, retailers, industry experts, and tastemakers who help bring those cool products to your shopping cart. You will hear stories of real-life founders, their launch strategies, and practical advice you could use to grow your own brand or simply discover what's next on shelf.

0:42Tatyana Jones:And the best part is you could shop all the brands featured on the show. This podcast is brought to you by Glimpse. Glimpse is an AI powered deduction management tool that disputes and recovers invalid deductions, winning brands, thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours back to founders so that they can focus on what really matters most. If you're a brand selling in retail, go to tryglimpse.com backslash trial for 30 days free and let them know I sent you. Now let's dive into the new episode. Hi everyone. Welcome back to a new episode of Emerging Brands Podcast with Kelly Bennett. Today I have the winner of the last Enthused Foundations pitch competition.

1:33Tatyana Jones:I was there in the audience. It was such a magical night. There There was so much enthusiasm for this brand. And so Tatiana Jones, she is the founder and CEO of Defy Snacks. And I'm so happy to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much. Hi, Kelly. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Yes. So I am a big fan of the Enthuse Foundation. And I love how they support women, especially in CPG. and your brand took home the prize and everyone voted that your brand had such incredible potential in the market and there was a few things that really stood out to me there's the through line of athletics and better for you protein chocolate you really are doing something unique and like a hybrid of a few different things so I would love if you could first kick it off with explaining to people who aren't familiar yet with your brand, what exactly is the brand, the product line, and what was that white space you saw in the market?

2:47Sure. I would love to do that. So Defy actually stands for Delicious Energizing Fitness Indulgence, and it is truly both an indulgence. So it is real chocolate. It's actually better for you chocolate at a baseline. It's non-GMO chocolate, so it's better than, you know, your other bigger brands that are out there. So even if you just ate it by itself, it would still hit the spot, but it would just be better for you. So real chocolate on the one hand hits the spot. The other side of it is really nutrient-dense, good-for-you ingredients that keep you satisfied, but then also if you're active or if you're seeking to kind of, you know, fill some satiety at that three o 'clock pick me up, they would be able to accomplish that.

3:36So net net, we always start with our ingredients story is we always start with real premium chocolate that you will not, it's chef made, you will not find it anywhere else. And then we add casein protein, which is a slow absorbing protein and whey protein via a crisp. So it gives it that multi-sensorial experience. Got it. A lot of millennials and Gen Zs, they just get bored by, you know, the, the, the solid chocolate. So they're into that, which is the audience you really want to appeal with. And then we finish off with our star ingredient, buckwheat. And buckwheat has this amazing story of its own.

4:17It is a true superfood. You know, it's, I compare it sometimes for the lack of a better example to quinoa. But quinoa had its day and it's still fairly popular. This ingredient, buckwheat, actually has more nutrients, more protein of its own than quinoa, yet it is misunderstood if it is known and pretty still fairly unknown in the market. Right. So altogether, it gives like essentially it's this amazing kind of hit the spot chocolate. It is an indulgence. It is a dessert. It's not a post-workout snack. But instead of feeling guilty after you eat a piece of chocolate or opening a bag of chocolate and just eating the whole thing, which I used to do, you really with Defy, you really just need one or two pieces and then you start feeling fuller.

5:16And, you know, if you eat the whole bag by accident, you know, we call them snackcidents, not such a bad thing. It's like eating, you know, it's like eating a meal. It's still much, much better than just opening a bag or a bar of chocolate and just eating a whole thing by accident. So that's kind of like the ingredient story behind Defy.

5:38Tatyana Jones:Right. And what were you seeing that was missing in the marketplace that you personally weren't finding as a consumer? Yeah. So I personally do CrossFit. I walk a lot. I run when it's not amazingly freezing outside like it is now in New Jersey. I stay pretty active. So even though I'm not a Gen Z consumer, I like to say that I'm all about kind of leaning into being strong and really not watching every single calorie. What I'm finding is a lot of competitive brands that make chocolate with protein, they also put fake sugars in their chocolate. it. And that's kind of, that's dangerous because you're leaning into that, A, it's fake sugars.

6:32So there's a lot of negative correlations when it comes to them that I probably won't go into, but it's leaning, the more dangerous part is the Gen Z consumers are actually now standing against these toxic low calorie trends where really you're just dieting and just cutting calories at all costs. They're more about female empowerment. They're about, you know, being strong. And if you're working out consistently, or if you're just, you know, leaning into your desire of just straight up eating chocolate, you're not going to be eating some of those, you know, about replacements that A, don't hit the spot, but then could potentially be harmful for you down the road.

7:22So I felt like, you know, for myself as a fitness loving foodie, which is, which is what I call our consumers on the one hand, things that are out there that Mars, Mars Wrigley, Hershey's of the world are putting out are very indulgent, but then you turn around and you look at the label and you just want to cry and you feel really guilty when you eat it. So I didn't want to consume those things. And then on the other hand, there's things that have, you know, a better caloric value, but still have just replaced, you know, the unhealthy ingredients with other potentially healthy looking ingredients, but they're still unhealthy.

8:02So it kind of sits in that right, right in the middle of that. It's still chocolate. So there's still sugar and, you know, cocoa butter. So there's still saturated fat. So it's not all good for you. It is a dessert. It still should be consumed in moderation. But then on the other side, we have the cleanest protein ingredients. And you really have to look at how you're sourcing your proteins, too. We look at how, not just the ingredient itself, but how it's produced and how it's processed, because that really matters when it comes to proteins. So we make sure that there's no like random things like bioengineering or anything like that that's introduced or any hormones that are introduced during the process.

8:51And then we also add ingredients like buckwheat. That's just like our brand ethos. It's just amazing for your body. And anything it touches, it just makes it better. So really, it's a little bit bad, but a lot of good. with Defy. So it's right in that middle spot of still hits the spot. We got the taste down, but it doesn't have anything that could potentially be harmful for you down the road. Got it.

9:21Tatyana Jones:And what was your background before starting Defy? So before starting Defy, I actually worked for Mars Wrigley for a few years. I did a post-MBA rotational program at NYU Stern. And I essentially, when I did that, I wanted to get into CPG brand management. And that's essentially what I ended up doing at Mars Wrigley. Prior to that, I worked at Johnson & Johnson. I actually worked for a startup beforehand. And so my Mars Wrigley experience was so amazing because it really made me realize how much people love chocolate and or sugar confections. However, I was kind of missing that feeling of not just making consumers' lives happier, but I wanted to also make consumers' lives healthier.

10:12And so Defy kind of brought me to that point where, yes, I'm making people happy. It's about emotional well-being as well. But I'm also doing something really great, making them feel less guilty, but also kind of like nourishing their bodies as well. And kind of like half of my experience even after Mars has been in other health care companies, all in brand management.

10:39Tatyana Jones:Got it. And so when you had this idea, were you currently at Mars? When I had this idea, I was actually at Bausch & Lomb most recently. For the last three years, at least, I was at Bausch & Lomb in a brand building role. I was a brand director. And when I decided, I actually started ideating around Defy. And my kind of catalyst was Buckwheat. So I wanted to do something with Buckwheat. I didn't know what. I knew it also had to be non-competitive to Bausch and Lomb. So they make a lot of eye care products. So I couldn't go into anything that was really close to eyes, either skincare, like if under eye things.

11:31Buckwheat is this amazing ingredient and has anti-inflammatory functions. It can literally be, you know, even outside of food categories, It could be added to facial creams. It has so many amazing properties. Like, for example, a lot of like Aveeno, for example, does oatmeal in some of their shampoos and things like that. Buckwheat would actually be a much better ingredient. And so when I started ideating, it was all around buckwheat. And then I said to myself, okay, so noncompetitive can't be like anything around face. What do I know best? And I really felt like I knew the chocolate category even better than I was getting to know the eye care category.

12:19And so being the first time founder, I wanted to have that strong baseline of category challenge. I can, I forgot, I've forgotten more than I know. I feel like sometimes, you know, I just have an instinct that I feel like I've developed within this category. And I just know how the retailers operate, especially Walmart. I did a rotation on the Walmart team selling to Walmart when I was at Mars. So although we're not there yet for Defy, but year five and beyond, when we do get there, I really understand kind of like what they look for.

12:59Tatyana Jones:That's a great set of skills to bring into a startup, especially for PPG, that it's its own niche world. It really is. So you started experimenting around buckwheat, then adding in chocolate. What were some of those early steps to bringing the product to life? So funny enough, my first go to market was actually bringing it to my gym. So I didn't really know, you know, when you work for a company like Morris Wrigley, you have hundreds of people within the different functions that kind of all come together and there's an approval process. So you're never really doing it alone. Right. Here as a founder, you are probably the best, like this is the best general management job that I've had because everything stops with you.

13:55So I didn't really know how to get started. I used to work with an R &D scientist on early innovation. So I actually reached out to one of my old friends from now Halion, old GSK consumer. and we started making, you know, prototypes in the kitchen. She kind of helped me nail down what a very high level recipe could look like. And then I took it and I started iterating on it in my own kitchen, just adding more and more protein. And so I made this thing that was essentially the initial version of Defy and took it to my gym. So I go to a CrossFit. There's a lot of CrossFitters that burn a lot of calories during their workouts.

14:45They're not watching every calorie. They love sweets too. And so I kept getting asked, hey, when are you bringing the crack? And so I was like, oh my gosh. So I have something here. I'm going to continue to iterate, but now it's not going to be in my kitchen because I ultimately don't, you know, I've reached my limit of R &D-ness. And so I went out and I got a chef and this chef, it took me a while to find him but he actually developed many of the huge chocolate flavors before they sold to Mondelez um and I think they sold for around 340 million dollars so he is this like genius of a chef and like a lot of a lot of creatives you know you have to kind of control the creative back to where you need it to be but I've really enjoyed kind of working with him and he developed our initial four, actually it was three when we went to market and then he did another formulation.

15:42So he, we now have four formulations. Yeah. Once I did that, I actually launched on DTC and then started selling all of the four SKUs at my gym. And well, that's a full circle moment. Yeah, it was really cool. And so I thought, okay, well, this gym is selling well. Maybe I'll go to some other gyms. And ultimately, we still sell at some CrossFits and some fitness locations, but ultimately, it doesn't really fit into a machine. It's a little bit too wide.

16:24Tatyana Jones:It's really been designed to sit on shelf. And a one-by-one selling strategy that's good for when you're validating the concept, but it doesn't scale as much. So we switched to going to market with retail last year. And that's actually right before I did the Enthuse Foundation pitch competition. So we went to a number of different independent retailers. There were a few chains within that. And we really wanted to understand what works, what doesn't, what type of a retailer does it work in and what does it not work in at least right now? Right. And what did that look like? Because I know you're in ShopRite, which is really cool, and a few others.

17:08Tatyana Jones:So what are those early findings so far? Yeah. So generally speaking, so we still have a higher price point due to lower volumes, very premium ingredients, and we're still kind of like half handmade. So it is very, very manual process to actually get the final product. So we generally do really well at kind of like a premium or a grocery where someone that's a little bit more higher income goes. So shop rights are generally in really great locations. So we've done well there. Same thing with Fresh Grocer. I mean, it's an amazing operation that they have going. We do really well there. And then every now and then I'll go in and do some demos.

18:01I love doing demos myself. Unfortunately, that doesn't scale as you get more and more stores. So any type of a grocery, as long as it's not like a value-driven grocery, so like nothing that has low cost in their name, generally works really well for us. And then we do have some independents that are kind of like a natural independents or better for you independents. And we do really well there because a consumer that goes into that type of a store, they're already expecting to spend a little bit more. So the price points that they're paying for any product are generally not the same as what you would pay for like an everyday chocolate.

18:46Right. So we are targeting a lot of the natural retailers that a lot of brands of our size are also targeting. I think it would do amazing. I hope John Lawson is listening. I think it's going to do amazing at Whole Foods. So those are our targets, you know, come 2026 for sure, but come 2027 as well. And we are continuing to iterate on the product because we were so manual. We couldn't hit some of the things that some of these retailers are looking for, some of the claims. But as I'm switching into a new Coman, which is happening very shortly, I will be able to deliver on some of those things that I know they want.

19:32And I think we're close. We're like right on the cusp. We're on their radar. They know who we are. Right. Exactly.

19:39Tatyana Jones:And it's something too that I always remind my clients, because I'm a brand strategist for pre-launch CPG food and beverage brands, is that some of those things, most of those things take time. You have to build relationships. You have to consistently show up. You have to consistently follow up. You have to be on the radar for a little bit sometimes, especially when you're doing something new that there isn't necessarily a category for. You're kind of creating your own hybrid category. it does take time. Something that I would love to ask you on because I know you're growing into retail, you are expanding, you won the Enthuse Foundation Pitch Competition.

20:21Tatyana Jones:What was a thing or a few things that really grabbed people's attention to want to invest essentially in Defy and how you also are starting to raise as well. Like what are the biggest selling points that you're hearing that's really piquing the attention from not only retailers, but also investors? I think that's a great question. So a lot of times for retailers, we confuse them a little bit because they don't always know where to put us. Right. So they're like, okay, so you're a chocolate. So is it the candy aisle or do I put you in my snacks aisle? I have a better for you snacking aisle. Should I put you there?

21:07And I tell them, so this confusion that you're experiencing is actually really awesome because anywhere you put us, so first put us in chocolate because it's a chocolate. Second, any set out of the ones you mentioned that you put us in, let's say chocolate doesn't work out, we are going to be incremental because we are so different. Just like you can't place this in your mind, that creates enough of curiosity when a consumer sees us. So it is going to be a basket builder for whatever set that you put us in. If you're chopping the chocolate aisle, you're very much consistent with who we are targeting.

21:46or ideal consumer is, does tend to skew female, although we over-index with females less so than the rest of the chocolate category, even though we do have a female on pack. I get that question a lot. But if you put us in a chocolate category, that shopper is kind of innately gravitating to their favorite chocolate, but then also they'll pick up a Defy to try us when they're you know, doing their better for you January gym sessions. And then if you put us in the better for you snacking aisle, or sometimes retailers will have functional snacking aisles, all of the snacks are fairly different from one another.

22:30And so that tends to be a great, you know, a great set for us as well. Where I don't love that retailers put us sometimes, but I still do it, is the protein bar aisle or the protein shake aisle. Oh, interesting. Why don't you like that space? So although we have protein, we are an infused chocolate. We are an indulgence infused with goodness. We are not a post-workout snack. We are targeting a similar, there is an overlap in our audiences, but the protein bar category does tend to be, and like you can see in how the bars look, They do tend to communicate more with that like male consumer. It's more about performance.

23:15Defy is for the fitness loving foodie. That's our ideal consumer. But it is also for the masses. It's that chocolate lover. It's that busy mom that's going to, you know, need a pick me up at 3 p.m. That doesn't tend to work as well in the protein aisle. And the occasion is a little bit off. Yeah. We do have other things coming that would go into that aisle. Okay, cool. Love a teaser. Yeah, not saying protein bars, but something more protein and very, very innovative ingredients. But for now, we'd like to stay within the chocolate category or better for you category.

23:51Tatyana Jones:Very cool. And then as far as what feedback you receive from investors and now starting to raise capital, what were some of the feedback that you got from the Enthused Foundation and just people who are curious about investing in the brand? Like what is really catching their attention? That's a great question. So the convergence of trends is definitely something that investors are interested in. Also, this like, you know, it's a positive and a negative sometimes. Like I mentioned, we don't over-index with females more so than the category. But sometimes I do get, especially if someone doesn't really understand CPG as well, sometimes I do get, why did you create a product just for females?

24:36And I'm like, nowhere does it say that it's a product for females. Males like females. So the runner-on pack actually does appeal to male consumers. And additionally, I have a female empowerment aspect to it. One percent of our gross profit is actually dedicated to helping other female-owned businesses and entrepreneurs. Oh, that is so cool.

25:02Tatyana Jones:I love that. It is cool. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of, you know, it's negligent now, but as we grow, we want to have more of, um, you know, that circular economy where we help other female entrepreneurs. Um, but, uh, the female, so being appealing to female without excluding males is actually something that not a lot of brands that focus on protein are doing. Right. If you look at all the protein bars, you're kind of excluding a really big, like most shoppers in the world are female. Yeah, in the US, maybe maybe I'm over speaking for the world, but most shoppers in the US are female and you are not marketing to them.

25:42Come on, marketing 101. So I think that is a key differentiator is that we do have a higher, stronger appeal to females without excluding males. So that is one observation that one of potential future investors told us because we're way too small for them, but they were involved in some major acquisitions. And he's like watching us and he's rooting for us.

26:05Tatyana Jones:Love it. The other thing that I get, the other piece of feedback that I get from investors is really focusing in and honing in on our path to profitability. So we are, we're not bad in terms of our margin, but we can definitely, as we scale and get more volume and get a new co-manufacturing partner, we can get to the sweet spot of, you know, between 50 and 60%. And then I'm also looking to add margin of creative items that are not like chocolate, that are just cheaper items. Cheaper is a bad word. Less expensive items. Yes, cost effective, lower cost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That will be a great driver for that profitability.

26:52So, and it's not, you know, if I was out of college, I could understand some of those concerns. It's not unlikely. It's not an uncommon thing to launch a product and then grow its profitability and create a path to profitability thereafter. I did it at Mars. Mars, I guarantee you, does it all the time with its new products. and now I'm doing it for myself, which obviously the stakes are a lot higher. I will have a profitable business, but then also very advantageous margin very shortly.

27:24Tatyana Jones:Yes, it's happening and it does take some time and it's a lot going on all at the same time too. But honestly, I genuinely felt the energy around your brand in the room. People were really like listening to every word in your pitch. I thought you did a great job of really spelling that all out and really letting people see what you were building and how you were going to make it happen. I love that. Thank you. And it was just, I mean, it feels like it was 10 years ago. It was just this past November that I know it feels I totally agree. Yes. But the judges that the first of all, the foundation is just amazing.

28:08They're, they're, they're just like badass women themselves and they're there to help you. And it's just an amazing, amazing network. But then when you looked at the makeup of the judges, they were such high caliber people. And so, you know, when you're, when you're going in and you're pitching, you're always look up your judges and you're like, oh my gosh, like, am I, how nervous am I? And when I looked them up, I was like, every single one of these people is just so incredibly impressive. And then to get feedback from them, they actually told me that they felt like Defy was the most strategically sound pitch.