How to Promote Employee Wellbeing and Strengthen Culture Through Emergency Savings with Devin Miller

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation, JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down how to promote employee well-being and strengthen culture through emergency savings and to drop these value bombs, I brought to Devin Miller and to EO Fire Studios. Devin is the co-founder and head of SecureSave, part of a HSA bank and leading provider of employer sponsored emergency savings accounts and accomplished executive with over 15 years in FinTech and workplace savings. He leads the charge to reinvent emergency savings.

0:34John Lee Dumas:And we talk about building secure save, the safety net gap, benefits that matter, the business case for emergency savings, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Devin and our sponsors. Starting a business is hard. Setting up your online store shouldn't be. Shopify makes it simple to build, launch, and grow your business. If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to shopify.com slash onfire to start your free trial today. Stop duct taping your business together. High Level runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place.

1:11John Lee Dumas:And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30-day free trial, plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more. Visit highlevelfire.com. highlevelfire.com. Devin, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Yeah, great to be here. And hello, Fire Nation. Yeah, success. I was thinking about this this morning. And one thing I don't think that people think enough about is time. And when you think about time, it's a journey. Like time moves and you move with it on journey.

1:50And I think people always think about success. They see it in the present moment or maybe from a historical sense. But people are really bad at thinking about especially other people's journey. They just see the present moment. They see the present time. They're like, wow, look how successful that person is. I wish I was them or they're jealous. And they just don't really appreciate the journey that that person has been on and will be. And that success may actually be fleeting and things like that. And for their own personal journey, I think they just, people are really bad at looking forward and where they're going and what might be capable.

2:25Or if they're really strong for some reason, you know, they've been knocked down and they're the opposite of successful. They just, they don't think they can get there. And, you know, I think people just need more perspective. They need to think about time and, you know, life's a journey. We're not getting out alive. And, you know, you just, you got to make your own success and just be patient, I guess is the last thing I would say. But I like that question.

2:47John Lee Dumas:Life is a journey, Fire Nation. No doubt about that. So we're stopping, we're smelling the flowers, we're enjoying the moments. And there's actually a phrase that I love, which is this too shall pass. Like when you're crushing it and things are going amazing, you need to realize this too shall pass. And then when it feels like it's the lowest of the low and it can't go any lower and it's never gonna get any better, well, this too shall pass as well. And that's why we're talking about how to promote employee wellbeing and strengthen culture through emergency savings because emergency savings will help that pass in a little bit of a more smooth route.

3:21John Lee Dumas:And I want to talk about your aha moment, Devin, because you had a moment in life that you realized emergency savings needed a completely different solution. Take us to that moment. Tell us that story. It was a very pronounced moment, actually, which is not always the case. So it was in the very early stages of the pandemic. And I was working with my business his partner, longtime partner, Bassam Saliba. And we had been working on projects. And when the pandemic hit, it was dead. It was one of those like, that's not going to work anymore. And he said something to me. He said, let's stop working on that.

3:56And let's, you know, just keep talking and exploring ideas. And let's just be thankful that we have our health and we have savings because a lot of people don't have both right now and they are scared and the world's crazy and we should be thankful. And so I went for a hike. I lived in a really a beautiful place in the Pacific Northwest, right next to the mountains. And obviously, the pandemic couldn't really go anywhere, but I could walk around outside. And I thought about what he said. I was like, you know, he is very right. The pandemic at that point in April of 2020 was turning into a financial crisis more than a health crisis.

4:30And it was just reminding the world how unprepared people are for unexpected financial emergencies. And it was something I knew. I've been working in fintech and personal finance for a long time, studied behavioral science around finance, and was very acutely aware and have experienced myself what it's like to not be prepared financially when life kicks you and you fall over and you don't have an easy way to pick yourself up. And I thought and talked to Bassam through it, what maybe now is the right time and the right scenario, strangely, to get people to really rethink emergency savings. And can we use technology and can we just take a fresh look at how to do this?

5:11And can we actually make the impact that's been fleeting? I mean, savings rate in America is very bad and it continues to get worse. People are still very bad at this. And I always talk about savings is more of an emotional problem than a functional problem. Everyone knows how to do it. They're just bad at it. And so you really have to meet them where they're at emotionally. And we thought the pandemic might create that opportunity, strangely. And that was the aha moment.

5:36John Lee Dumas:Well, I want to move that aha moment into actually building SecureSave? Because we always talk on Entrepreneurs on Fire about identifying a problem you want to solve. Because we can all identify problems all day long. It's like we see problems left, right, front, center. They're all over the place. That's a great thing is that's opportunity, but we can't solve every problem and we shouldn't solve every problem. So once you identified a problem you wanted to solve, how did you approach building SecureSave to address that need, not just one-to-one, but at scale? You know, my process is probably not too dissimilar from a lot of other people say, but, you know, generally it's, I actually like to start to try and get a mental model of not only who's the user for, for sure.

6:17Like, who am I trying to help? What do they look like? Who are they like? You know, a lot of people will go and start talking to users really fast and, and try and, you know, what, what's the problem. And I want to interview them. And we definitely did that, but I actually more start with my own mental model of what I think they want. and then I actually open a spreadsheet and I start trying to think about what will it take to make this business work? What are the assumptions that need to be true? And what does that look like? And then I start talking to users and I often thrash through that process for a while.

6:49And we did that. We went through and we kind of, what do we think we want to build? What might it look like? What would it take to make the business work? And what do users think? And so we kind of just go through that cycle. I'll throw out a caveat in that, you know, we were trying to build a venture scale business. We wanted to build something really big. And I tell my kids, it's just as hard to build, you know, a very, very large company as it is to open a taco stand in your home stand. Like it's, you know, businesses are hard. They take a lot of work. They bleed your energy and your time and your money.

7:22And for me, I just want to work on really big things. And so that process that I talked about works when it comes to really big things, because, you know, you could build, you could just start talking to users and solve their problems, but that doesn't mean you're going to build a really big company. You just, you might open, you know, you could build a lifestyle business or something small, but we wanted to build something big. And so that's why I think being attentive to the business model and the dynamics are important early and having a picture of kind of what is that product and business, and then just working through that process.

7:51So for me, that's kind of the flywheel that I try and get going creatively. And, and then, you know, if it seems like it's working, you keep going. And if it doesn't, you move on.

8:00John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about the safety net gap, because of course there are roadblocks that are preventing people from building savings. So what are the biggest roadblocks and how can an emergency savings account actually overcome those roadblocks, make it accessible to your average person? Yeah, the biggest roadblock is the big squishy stuff in your own skull. It gets in the way. You overthink things and you get emotional about money. I often say money is just ones and zeros. It's not complicated. But for people, money is highly emotionally charged. And that's their biggest struggle. They create excuses.

8:40They just don't want to think about it. They don't even want to pull up their bank account sometimes because they're just afraid of what's there and what it looks like. They think it's complicated and it often is. And so they put up barriers to that. And so when it comes to savings, there's something really powerful about adding the word emergency savings to it. You know, it's interesting. You look at, again, the savings rate. People are really bad at saving. They're bad at saving for retirement. They're bad at saving for college, for anything. And I think part of the problem is there is it seems too big.

9:11It seems like I can't I can't save for retirement right now. It's too far along. Or I'm not you know, I can't say for a wedding. I don't I don't have anyone to get married to. I don't know. I shouldn't do that. Or vacation. I can't take work off. There's all these reasons that you can't do that. But for emergency savings, there's something funny that seems to happen in a positive way that everybody can understand what an emergency is financially because they've lived it, especially if you've worked your way through college or early adulthood and you're going to get kicked at some point. And so everyone can understand and relate and they know what that means and they know that it comes up and they also know they're not that big.

9:45Like it's a ticket you didn't expect or, you know, a broken appliance or a car repair or a health care bill you just don't have extra money for. And so everyone can relate to that and they really like it. And it's like budgeting. Everybody knows what emergency savings is. They know they should do it. It's good for them. And but you have to make it super easy, automated and obvious and and have the right incentive structure attached to it. And so that's what we try and do. And I guess the biggest way I would summarize it though, is we build for emotion. The way that we design the product and the features and the entire go-to-market is to try and get through to your squishy brain and get over that emotional charge you have around finances and just make it easy, automated and rewarding.

10:30And it works. And that's been really rewarding to see.

10:33John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation. I mean, when you said the word appliance, Devin, I was just like, oh, I can so relate. Cause it's just like, you know, that the refrigerator, it just kind of stops running. you're like, I literally need this like right now. Like I have a child, like there needs to be food. There needs to be refrigeration. And it's like, there's just no answers for what's about. Like you have to go get this fixed now. Like there's no, like we can put it off till months ahead when I'm getting a paycheck. And it's like, it has to happen today. So man, that's, that's something that I know resonates with a lot of people that really hits home for a lot of, a lot of reasons.

11:04John Lee Dumas:And fire nation, we are going to be talking about benefits that matter, the business case for emergency savings, and more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Okay, Fire Nation, let's talk about something every business owner should care about, making your cash work harder. High-yield savings accounts exist for a reason. Your emergency fund shouldn't just sit there losing purchasing power to inflation when it could be earning interest. The problem is most businesses don't have an easy way to earn on their cash, so huge amounts sit idle in checking accounts, earning little to nothing. Waldo changes that.

11:34John Lee Dumas:It gives small business owners, startups, nonprofits, and enterprises, a way to put idle cash to work through a high-yield treasury account. With Waldo, you can invest in pre-built portfolios of treasury bills, investment-grade bonds, and more with yields up to 5%, same-day liquidity, and extended SIPC insurance coverage up to$75 million. There's no minimum deposit, and you don't have to change banks. Opening an account takes less than five minutes. Visit waldo.ai or use the link in the show notes to start putting your cash to work like big companies do. Use code EOFIRE when you sign up to receive a 1 % deposit match up to$1 ,000.

12:10John Lee Dumas:See full terms and conditions at waldo.ai. When I first launched Entrepreneurs on Fire, my biggest fear was seeing zero downloads. I had three listens on day one, me, my girlfriends, and my mom. But hey, here we are 14 years later and over 170 million listens. Sometimes you have to just start. And I felt the same way when I launched my first physical product, the Freedom journal? Will anyone actually buy a physical journal? And what platform will I use to sell it? Thanks to Shopify, I had the perfect business partner to help make it happen. Shopify not only takes care of the checkout experience, helping you seamlessly track and manage your inventory and sales.

12:47John Lee Dumas:They also have design templates and an AI site builder to make setting up your store fast and simple, spend less time worrying about the technical side of your store and more time growing your business with Shopify. If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to shopify.com slash on fire to start your free trial today. That's right. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash on fire. That's shopify.com slash on fire. Fire Nation, ideas are exciting, but systems will allow you to create freedom. That is where high level comes in. High level allows you to build and run your entire business from one platform.

13:26John Lee Dumas:Website builder and hosting, funnel and landing pages, email marketing, automation and workflows, calendar booking, payments and subscriptions, even course and membership hosting. Everything works together seamlessly. Plus award-winning 24-7 support so you are never stuck. And when you go through my link at highlevelfire.com, you unlock my full bonus stack, a 30-day free trial of High Level with full access, a private 15-minute coaching call with me, weekly live office hours with me, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something Execution Roadmap, and more.

14:00John Lee Dumas:Stop piecing tools together. Start building momentum. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Devin, we're back. And as I kind of mentioned before the break, I want to get into benefits that matter. Because when businesses are evaluating their employee wellness and benefit programs, what should they be looking at? What should they be thinking about? Because I know a lot of listeners right now are saying, okay, like I get it. I know that I have a employee wellness and benefits program or it can be improved or it should be started. What should they be looking at? What should they be thinking about?

14:34I would put these in two different categories. If you're a new business, smaller, younger, and you're just getting started, you got to hit the basics, right? You got to have retirement, you got to have healthcare. And those are the big two, obviously. And they're huge investments. And there's a lot of optionality and complexity to it. You got to start there. The companies that we serve are usually more mature. They work through that process. And they're looking for other ways to serve and support their employees. And that's where emergency savings really starts to jump off the page. There's a lot of really great research that shows that when employees are asked, Where does that next dollar need to go?

15:13Let's assume healthcare and retirement are generally covered and are solid by your company. Where do you want the next dollar and thing to go into? It's quite often that you'll find emergency savings is very high on that list. Other things will jump in there too, like more paid time off or is really one of the top next ones. But again, let's say you're a mature company, but you've covered these bases. really the next most popular thing for a company to launch with their employees, especially if you have average workers, average hourly workers, even, you know, decent salaried workers, average age workers.

15:48If there's nothing unique about your business, I mean, if you've got a bunch of PhDs, you know, that might be different. Or, or if you've got a bunch of high school kids working for you, maybe that's different. But most companies, you know, you're, you're at, you're employing normal people, normal jobs, normal pay, they want emergency savings. And if you're looking to add a benefit, That's really important because you need to launch something that people want you to do, and you need to launch something that they're going to use. And that's where emergency savings really, again, is a high performer.

16:15It's a very high adoption rate, usually around 60 % of your employees are going to use it. It's not uncommon that when we work with an employer after health care and retirement, we are the next most utilized benefit that the employees use. But then the ROI really comes down to emergency savings helps actually improve your retirement. people with emergency savings participate more in retirement, contribute more, and they have less early withdrawals. That's a really positive ROI. And then there's been some great research that people basically just show up to work more when they have emergency savings.

16:49And this has been something that we've studied and others have studied. They're more productive, safer workers that are more present. And a lot of it's because the research shows people out of emergency savings are just more, they can withstand those shocks more. And when they can withstand those shocks more, they can get through those situations and they're just more reliable as an employee. And it seems counterintuitive in a weird way, or it just, people are like, nah, that's, that just can't be true. But it is. And when you combine all that together, very popular, highly used, direct impact on retirement and a great impact on productivity and, and productivity and hours worked and things like that, it's a phenomenal ROI for the employer to launch.

17:33John Lee Dumas:Well, let's keep moving into the business case for emergency savings. I mean, we touched upon it, but I really want to dive into how benefits like emergency savings account, how does that lead to better employee wellness, stronger team culture, and just overall what we all want, of course, is improved business outcomes because that's, at the end of the day, what's going to keep this business rolling. It's a good point. And so well-being overall is an area that a lot of employers are focused on because they know that from talking to their employees, they don't feel well. They don't feel like they're doing good.

18:05They're struggling with inflation, with health care costs. They're struggling with just, you know, life's intense. And they want their employer to help. And there's this increasing expectation by employees that especially these mature, larger companies are going to do more and provide more for their employees. And employers need to do something. And when you ask people what what stresses them out the most, the number one thing is short term money matters. People are stressed over the short term finances and you can't just pay people more. I mean, you can and you should most likely, but there's a there's a clear limit to that for employers.

18:42And so they're looking for that other way that they can provide a sense of well-being and support. And again, that's where emergency savings is really impactful because it's again, again, it's popular. it's going to be highly utilized but it's also it's money in an account that they can touch and feel and they can use for whatever they want and it literally has the employer's name on it they can log into secure save and they see my company abc company is providing this product this incentive and they're helping me and when i got stuck in a bad situation and something happened my company had this account set up for me and it was available and i could use it for whatever i wanted.

19:18It's a constant reminder of what that employer is doing to invest in you. And so the response we get is we have, you know, like a 94, 95 % customer satisfaction rating with employees. Employers that we work with have measured an 86 net promoter score, which is crazy high. And the employers constantly say, this makes a positive impact on my view of the employer and the fact that you offer this emergency savings program.

19:42John Lee Dumas:Do you have just like a favorite specific story that you can tell of, you know, somebody you've worked with, maybe they've told you a story after they implemented this or something that you've just seen around the world that you're living in, the vertical, the niche. Can you tell that story? Yeah, I'll give you two quick ones. We worked with the manufacturing firm and during the setup kind of sales process, their COO was late for the demo call. And we were pretty deep in the sales process and he was late. He gets on, he's very apologetic and he goes, Hey, I'm so sorry I was late. I got stopped in the hallway here at the factory I'm visiting by one of our employees who said, hey, can I get$25 from the company?

20:20Because I don't have enough money to fill up my car with gas. And if I can't get that, my gas, my tank filled up, I'm going to miss a bunch of shifts. And if I miss shifts, I'm going to lose pay and it's going to spiral. And the COO came in and he's like, you know, we'll figure it out. But this is the problem I'm trying to solve. My people are constantly in bad spots and it's impacting us as an employer. And man, what crazy timing as I'm walking into this call. And we've had great success with that particular employer. Another one is very, very large employer, one of the biggest in the country, has been working on an emergency savings program for several years.

20:58And back to my point of productivity, he said, you know, we measured the hours worked by employees with and without an emergency savings account. And he said, it's very consistent. Employees with an emergency savings account work about five to 7 % more hours per week than those that don't. And he's like, it is insanely consistent. It's shocking to find it. And it's a massive ROI for our business at scale. And so I think those are two great stories. And it really shows kind of the emotional connection that this product can have for employees, as well as the tangible ROI that employers are seeing.

21:33John Lee Dumas:And I think an important point to bring up, and I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Devin, And this is just from my perspective. It's like, if that, you know, individual, that, you know, CEO or whoever that person was that was approached by that employee, just like was like, listen, he just like put out his wallet, gave the guy 25 bucks. He's like, listen, it's important. Like go, go, you know, go fill your gas tank up. Or if he even went and just said, okay, we're going to like use our slush fund and like we'll give, you know, then kind of like word gets out. And then it's like, okay, now like I can go to this guy and he's going to give me some money or I can go to the company and give me some money.