E425 | This Week in European Tech with Dan Bowyer, Lomax Ward and Andrew J. Scott

34:28There will be a push and an energy around buying European. I think that will happen. What impact that will have on real money, cash in bank, who knows? But I think there's going to be an aspect of that that's real. maybe in consumer goods yeah startups and consumer goods potentially yeah i think i think there's a difference between what the consumer reaction will be and what startup founders investors do right so it's easy for a canadian to decide not to drink jack daniels and drink a you know a scottish whiskey and it's not going to be too much skin off their nose if you're a automobile company like in Germany then you are really screwed right because you're relying on a huge number of exports to that market suddenly slapping on a 25 percent uh tariff means that the U.S.

35:16consumer is not gonna you know buy the Porsche they're gonna buy the you know the local equivalent uh if they can afford that um some will but most won't and and you know we already see some structural systemic problems in say countries like Germany where they you know arguably becoming less and less competitive and so what do they do do they then suddenly you know set up a plant in the US that's not going to happen overnight that's going to take years they have loads in Mexico but which is a double whammy because all of their plants they've got lots of activity in Mexico I mean looking at the numbers it was it was roughly 10 % of their volume I think VW make around 6 million cars a and I think half a million were being built in Mexico.

36:01But obviously, they're double screwed. Well, ironically, it's cheaper to get a German car in America than it is in the UK. I can tell you that, even though they have to ship it all the way over there or build it. And they're not buying anything in China either. I mean, you've seen Mercedes sales in China fall through the floor. So I think, yeah, the German automotive industry is in real trouble. But to your point, Dan, I think there are winners and losers. And I think there are, if you think about the companies that are not, say, so heavily into the manufacturing side, data-driven businesses, humanity is a case in point.

36:33You may not realize this, but humanity is actually a US Delaware C Corp. We have a UK limited company. So we have, you know, we leverage both companies for different reasons. But it's easy, you know, you can spin up a server in a different country quite easily. You can have IP, therefore, that's based and contract from a US entity versus a UK entity quite quickly if you're a data-driven AI business, for example. So whether that means you have startups that set up other offices and trade from that company. I think that's what's going to happen. I think you're back up. I think people are going to mirror what you're doing.

37:10They're going to very quickly have these non-touchable entities in each country. and so from that point of view there's there's an element of that will create a shift right you will see you know companies that want to take you know to your point low max you're not going to have where u.s is a huge market for you as a startup you're not just going to turn your your you know nose up to that market you're going to find ways to still address that market which means setting up shop or having boots on the ground having you know potentially relocating so there will be some you know let's say uh attraction to for for you know the u.s to have these tariffs it's the question of you know what you know what is the other unknown effects like you know we've heard probably the example of the iphone which is you know the world of globalization is about 100 company countries that have to like contribute towards the making of an iphone you know it's not just it's not as simple as you know move everything into the u.s and if it did it would cost three you know three thousand dollars plus to have an iphone our customers willing to pay that so so it's going to be very interesting to see how how sort of long it's in place for and what effect it actually has on all of the go-to-markets of these types of products i think lo max you're right i think this is a negotiating tactic because i remember seeing on fox news even on fox they were going around to supermarkets and car dealerships and and sharing what tariffs would mean for all of the products.

38:33And the reporter was saying that this Dodge Ram truck or whatever it was, it's going to be$20 ,000 more expensive. It's going to go from$80 ,000 to$100 ,000. So even Trump's allies, even Fox News is now starting to kind of question and challenge what's going on with tariffs. So I think you're right. I think this is a negotiating tactic only. Somebody posted today, I think it was on X, about how the economy in the States worked with regards to tariffs, you know, a hundred years ago and hundreds of years ago and 50 years ago, and how the shift of government revenue has shifted. And effectively, it's basically saying Trump is trying to take us back to, you know, a hundred plus years ago, where a lot of the government revenue was from tariffs, but it just doesn't work for all the reasons that we know.

39:22Anywho, Pete, I want to talk about health. I want to get into your head, Pete, and talk about health and all of the healthy goodness. So you shared earlier today this incredible discovery that scientists have found a new part of the immune system. I was trying to work out what this would mean for antibiotics discovery and treatments and therapies. But tell us what's going on with this new discovery. Yeah, no, exactly. Well, it's actually an organization in Israel called the Wiseman Institute of Science. And they've actually been looking at something that's not to be confused, the proteome, but the proteasome, which is a bit of a mouthful.

40:03But this is a cellular component that's long thought to be solely responsible for recycling old proteins. But they've just kind of discovered that it actually has a mechanism that can potentially create loads of natural antibiotics in the body. and we know that there's been a huge like a right rising alarm of like the the lack of you know the antimicrobial resistance problem and there's actually a million people in the world that are dying because of the lack of antibiotic effectiveness to certain infections so if this discovery proves to be you know effective then this could this could create a whole new wave of antibiotics being brought into the market.

40:46And I think that presents an incredible opportunity for the health and life science sector in the UK and the EU to sort of capitalise on that for the next generation of infectious disease drug, new drugs to tackle that. Will it open up more opportunity for start-ups, investment? What do you think the implications are for the ecosystem? them? Well, I mean, we're already pretty, it's one of the growing sectors, obviously, of the VC stroke, you know, startup world is health tech anyway. And we're seeing a lot of AI being applied to drug discovery and early, you know, diagnostics. So I think that's not, you know, slowing down.

41:27I just think that this is another sort of huge signal to show that there is just so much opportunity here for us to sort of now taking the ability to look at the data that we weren't able to be able to make this kind of discovery before and how we can start to, you know, identify these new targets. And, you know, in this case, it could be literally a whole new field, you know, and the fact that it's something that's created from your own body. You know, if you think about the regulatory environment when it comes to, you know, the toxicity risk and, you know, having to do clinical trials for safety or something like this, where it's something that's produced by your own body it's it's likely to get fast-tracked in terms of regulatory approval because of the fact that your body obviously already produces this so so if it's something that can help strengthen the immune system whereas before we thought we were looking for like soil extracts to try and find new antimicrobials that are resistant uh you know drugs this this actually could pave the way to some real rapid innovations and startups that want to you know target these these areas and come up with new new drugs well let's hope let's hope there's a bit more kind of activity it's great because we've already been we've been hearing a lot about you know drug resistant diseases so this sounds this is wonderful and you also i can't remember the name of you you talk about proteosinomics now we're talking about proteo proteomics was well proteomics is another another area and there's actually been something interesting happening in that field so uh to dumb it down a little bit you know your bloods have there's different ways of analyzing your bloods um you know you can look at the metabolomics you can look at the proteomics you can just look at markers in a standard way and actually one of the things that humanity has done quite recently in this area which is i think just just one of many examples where you can capitalize on looking at the data of you know biomarkers is that we were able to partner with imperial college london and And our approach was, how do we create predictive health value understanding with the least amount of data?

43:32Because the real world has sparse and varied data. So can we take, even as low as in our case, four blood markers and highly predict your risk of disease and death? And we came up with a model that did that at 11 % more predictive than the most accurate model out there before called Phenomage. And it got published in Nature. And so that's now paving the way for our go-to-market where we can partner with lab groups, health providers, primary care providers to actually give this health insight to customers or patients who are getting their bloods and they want to understand how healthy they are.

44:06Even doctors don't understand this stuff very well. And in the news this week was around how these pharma companies have come together to try and look at, again, like what we did. We trained our data on the UK Biobank. they've looked at 500 ,000 participants from the UK Biobank and they've identified all of these interesting targets using the proteomic approach which is another way of looking at the bloods which could help detect disease more accurately much earlier whether that be cancer whether that be autoimmune deficiencies or frankly anything. So again that provides a whole new way in which to you know come up with you know health solutions for the for populations at large loving it you know a bit about this world don't you no i think it's very interesting i think well on the first piece of news i think it's great to see cutting-edge science it's just a reminder that cutting-edge science doesn't always come out of the u.s you know this time came out of israel the voiceline institute is clearly a like leading academic um center that produces like phenomenal research so that's great to see i think i may be less optimistic than pete on it just that just that it will take a bit more time to get the evidence.

45:15There we go. There's the cynic. There we go. Bring back the miserable middle-aged man. It's all great stuff, but there's a lot to work through, is what I'm saying. We know how these things work. But sure, it's fantastic. And for the reasons that Pete said, I think there's huge optimism around it. I think on the proteo more generally, because we actually made an investment in this space three years ago, we think it's very, very interesting. And the way I kind of think about it at a very high level is... Over the last 20 years, we had the genome was the area of huge interest, right? So that was driven by sequencing coming down from a hundred million a pop down to$500.

45:53So the technology driven by companies like Luminous and XR out of Cambridge that acquired, was acquired by Luminous. That was again, UK core technology. That's right. That enabled us to discover and learn more about the genes in our body. So we have roughly 20 ,000 different genes that then unlocked so we we got the information on the discovery side and then we were able to implement that and actually you know come up with treatments off the back of that so you know we've seen you know crisper cas9 on gene editing and new gene therapies you can now use i mean gene sequencing to target immunotherapies i mean in the case of my own cancer you know the cancer was sequenced and we came up with um a whole bunch of treatment options off the lack of that.

46:36Right. So that's been a step game change in healthcare. That's on the genome side. Now the proteome, and by the way, you have, I'm not sure the total number, but I think we have between a hundred thousand and 400 ,000 different proteins in our body. So that's a big range, but that is, we're kind of like, we've done 20 years on the genome. We're now going to do maybe 20 years on the protein side of things. And we're only just now getting the ability to sequence on the protein side so actually we're still at the beginning of that of that journey so um i'm hugely optimistic about it and there's no caveat here dan don't worry other than the fact that other than the fact that will take time to trickle down but the movement into personalized medicine the movement into predictive medicine yeah exactly there's something there's something very it feels like we're making step changes obviously mainly driven by ai that are going to absolutely game change not only on the on the personal responsibility side but how national health is managed and i think this is super exciting and i'm extremely proud pleased excited to be to be part of the the crew that's going to watch all this stuff come to pass because this is obviously that you know our kids are going to be benefiting from this stuff yeah i feel like i feel like we were born about 20 years 20 years too early sadly and in some respect again because you know it's funny like we we were making investments in predictive medicine i've got about 10 years ago now and actually in a way we were a little bit too early and and it's always timing it's it's timing in venture land is definitely timing as well when you're you know you're raising money every 18 months it's um yeah but those those time cycles are really like exponentially speeding up now so So you can see what we were going to see in 10 years then, you're going to see in less than one year now.

48:25You're seeing the flywheel actually. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're seeing that through in the fundraising rounds, I think, that you're seeing other companies getting funded now and that feeds into that. And hence areas like longevity and AI in diagnostic and early detection is booming because they can see that this is actually now a viable target where we can actually look at a cellular reprogramming. opportunity to extend lifespan or to reverse disease risk, which was something that was just frankly not even a possibility 10 years ago, right? Yeah. Brian Johnson will be super, super happy, I have no doubt.

49:03Yeah, because lots have been spent. I mean, around 7 billion was invested in health tech last year in Europe, but that's against 23 billion in the US. And at the peak in 2021, that was around 32 billion. But Europe has grown sevenfold in 10 years compared to the us at about fourfold so we are definitely at the always better to have a smaller base yeah yeah well it's i think it's one it's the one thing that i've always felt that europe does extremely well and obviously it's driven by ai and i love the fact that it's apart from pretty pictures and sexy videos ai is actually health is one of the key cornerstones that that is is being affected and last month uh obviously the swedish startup nico health co-founded by daniel from spotify they raised 260 million dollars series b for their body scanning and biograph is now out of stealth yeah it's peter atias um the health guru his startup's doing a similar thing function health they're looking at a two billion valuation um and sam altman backed retro biosciences raised a billion series a a cool billion it's like what is a what is a seed round anymore what as a series eight but pete we do this well but what from your perspective what's hot and what's coming down the pipe yeah i i mean i think it's all the areas that the touch on you know ai and and early diagnostic early detection you know i think that what daniel is doing with nico is really fascinating because it shows that at the higher end people are willing to spend you know 300 pounds to get a uh slightly different perspective on their health you know that's something that people are willing to pay for and there's a high demand amongst a small number yeah i did it i did it i did it last year i thought yeah what did you think it was i loved it um it was like you know star trek star wars rolled into a especially the skin the skin cancer detection right yeah when you're watching a fat avatar of yourself kind of rotate on the screen in front of you but i immediately from the immediate first moment i stepped in there and they're doing the bloods they do things like they they just do logical things like they don't just take one blood pressure cuff of one arm they know that your blood pressure is different throughout the body so they do four they do both legs and both arms and they take your blood and it gets sucked up into a tube in the ceiling and those blood results come back in half an hour it's just obviously the way ahead it's obviously the future is with us now but here's the thing and and this is our this is our view of humanity and and we take again a slightly contrarian view to just just looking at that we think there's massive opportunity don't get us wrong in creating these incredible experiences in i can hear a buck coming the butt is that you know i think that there's not enough ambition amongst uh founders who entered a health space about how we can create population health impact you know because no matter how much you scale these clinics you know there's only going to be a certain percentage of the population that want to spend 300 pounds every time they do a scan yeah but they've got to start somewhere right pete it's this yeah but This whole top down, eventually it will trickle down.

52:10That's where it will take 10, 20, 30 years and actually may never get there. How about you go bottom up? And I think if you go bottom up with AI and the ability to understand data that's already in existence, not about one day we'll get this and eventually this will become affordable, but how do we empower doctors? How do we empower hospitals? tools how do we empower how do we empower the consumers to even just understand how healthy they are want to be empowered p this is this is the challenge that i have if you're feeding your kids turkey twizzlers and drinking nine pints a night you are you are not going to be interested in humanity's app or you know health scanning or any of the above so i agree but i tell you the two insights that we had from doing building our app to a few hundred thousand users and and this is the interesting thing so first thing was that you know longevity is not ready for the mainstream in the sense like you know meditation has become like we might all listen to hooverman or watch his podcast and atia but that's in the single digits i find that's not the billion that's not a billion people that's not the the joe blogs on the street they're not going how do i measure my aging how do i optimize you know my lifespan healthspan that's just not you know what people are looking for on the streets however what we did find is when you gave people this insight of how healthy they are so in other words someone who might be i'll just use an example a 50 year old who's actually really you know doing a lot of exercise has a high vo2 max thinks they're super healthy but they have like a history of um high cholesterol and they go oh well that's just you know this so they get their blood so they're like yeah but you know that's family our family all get high cholesterol and so they have this dissonance around their health and thinking they're fine and then suddenly in his case he got his biological age based on his bloods and said he was one year older than his actual age this is a guy who identified as a 40 year old and he's 50 so that insight a little bit like the genie out of the bottle was like oh i'm not as healthy as i thought i was and i need to do something about this and in his case he stopped drinking alcohol he stopped eating sugary snacks and then four months later got his bloods done again and it turns out he'd lost two years of his biological age in four months and so that left him emboldened to want to do more to continue on that journey and if you think about the the growing obesity problem type 2 diabetic um you know issue that is facing not just the western world but you know even the emerging world where you're seeing you know the the younger generations already getting these symptoms now there is a huge need to you know course correct by giving people this understanding that they're actually trending you know three four five years older than they they are on average and i think that's an opportunity where we can both do better job of giving people an early warning system to say that you you might be heading in this direction maybe you want to do something about it or see a doctor and and find out so giving them even that understanding before they get symptoms or just giving someone a baseline.

55:17And then when they actually do something, is it actually working to make them healthier or not? Because there's a lot of misinformation and things that don't necessarily work for you. And I think that's where AI, data personalization, preventative health, precision medicine is going to literally change the sick care system to one where it is much more focused on health and wellbeing because that will, from a societal perspective, to be a huge longevity dividend. I mean, Lomax, you're treating cancer. You're very conscious. You're a hyperfit dude. You're very conscious of health. What do you think it would work?

55:52Didn't start getting cancer though, did it? But yeah. Yeah. I didn't know, Lomax, you had cancer. I'm sorry to hear that, mate. Did you? Well, I spent four hours this morning in a CT scan. Get the results later. Can you just share a little bit about what you had? I had stage 3 colorectal cancer, diagnosed at the age of 38, having had no symptoms of note. So, yeah, and I was running sub-three-hour marathons, not really drinking, pretty clean diet, lots about all. A bit of stress probably from this job, but yeah, it kind of came out of the blue. And just for context, stage 4 colorectal cancer, you have a 15 % five-year survival rate, so 15 % chance of being alive within five years.

56:38you know stage three it's better but but the point is and part of my launch so i was just listening to what you were saying pete i would say even though i think you were trying to trickle down from what dan was saying to trickle down that to the wider population i still think it's even there was sort of even lower more lower hanging fruits that we should be doing at the population to really move the needle at the population at the population level right sugar tags whether it's on like wellness or like not getting sick you know not getting sick i include like or early diagnosis things like cancer right we have some cancer screening programs but you know there are only like in the uk i think there are only three cancer screening programs maybe four they're also worried about too many false positives false negatives and that's why there's not a huge feeling of the PSA that's only 60 percent well yeah that's a really and a very low accurate test to be fair so then it then means that actually to get for a government to sign off on running a screening program means they need to be really really comfortable that it's not going to yield a massive increase in cost and worry literally like in the case of like my condition to have a cancer and by the way the backdrop here is that you know especially if we're going to live longer there is a one in two chance that you know you will get cancer during your lifetime so you should really approach it from a mindset of i am going to i mean that's It's depressing, but you should really approach it from the mindset, I will get cancer at some point.

58:06But, however, cancer is completely curable, generally speaking, if you catch it early, right? Don't all men, aren't all men, don't all men, when they die, don't they all have prostate cancer? Well, yeah, exactly. Probably. Yeah, something crazy like that. Something like that, yeah. I think my point is that there can be a strategy around keeping people healthy, but there can also be a strategy around, It's more on the predictive or preventative healthcare side, which is like, don't get sick. How do we get these things early? And screening programs and low-hanging fruit is, for example, in the UK, I think you can get a colonoscopy at the age of 50.

58:40I think it was 55. That age is coming down. But most people, a lot of people don't take up that test. You start off with your FIC test, which is your poo in the post test, right? But a lot of people just don't do it. so actually you should be spending the money on marketing and campaigning to make sure people understand the risks and actually do those things in a way those are easier ways to move the needle and simpler you know applying you know aoi ai to various like health data and i think it's even i get it but like it's even more base it's even more base to me we need to have any processed foods any sugary foods need to be taxed at the end and andrew he's not on today but andrew's a big one on this yeah you know i agree there's there's a lot of but but what what you talk about from what you're doing pete is incredibly important and it will trickle through yeah well i'll tell you one thing yeah we i mean this is a bit of a spoiler of what what's coming next because we have this api now around you know giving you a biological age based on very limited data any like movement heart rate from your smartphone wearables any blood tests also any genetic test so even a sequence we can do a predisposition age measure as well as dna methylation but what we actually uncovered in our sort of two plus year sort of journey of like leading into the science to come up with this groundbreaking blood aging model was that in order to achieve that we we had to essentially use ai and data imputation to predict missing markers so it's looking at the patterns of the combination of the markers that you get which is something doctors don't understand and frankly it's just like trying to understand from a from an mri you know image there's only so much even a radiologist can understand by looking at an image based on experience you know data can pick up all these things that you can't see and so what we're now building is essentially an early version of an open large biological model and think of it as an LLM but for biomarkers and the idea of that is that we could understand we could predict your cholesterol without knowing what your cholesterol is and moreover based on how you've moved over the last six months, we can predict what that cholesterol will change to in six, 12 months time.

1:00:50And so that's interesting data, right? We could potentially give an early warning to cancer. There could be an early warning to metabolic risk. And by the way, we don't need to be the provider of that information. We could just enable the health ecosystem to the physicians, the hospitals, the remote patient monitoring providers to do that. because that will just be a foundational model for them to to top of so i think there's going to be more things like that we're not going to be the only ones clearly um and i think that's going to change precision medicine early detection so we can get cancer at stage zero stage one yeah more effectively it has to be the way ahead yeah that has to be it has to be a good thing even if even if it does prove to be a false alarm you know i think we we want one thing that is like just talking about like time to be alive like this is this and the next 10 15 years are a fascinating time to be alive if you're proactive and have a little bit of disposable income to spend on your health it's a fascinating time to be alive if you care about it which you should you know say you should care about it it's a fascinating time to be alive there are so many tools that can really really move the needle for you as an individual both in terms of increasing your wellness and also preventing yourself from getting really really sick the psych problem from mindset shift is is that in the past the mindset at the population level was to basically outsource your health to the state and not really run a crowd of proactive people didn't like to spend money on it no one's because it's happened to spend money on holidays and various other frivolities but not the health and i think um i think that's changing a little bit it will it will change it it'll be driven by the supercomputer in your pocket that's what will drive this revolution is the fact that your health record will soon be on your mobile phone and all of your interaction will soon be on your mobile phone.

1:02:42I think that's going to be a massive lever. I want to move on to deal of the week. We've got three super cute deals. I was mostly intrigued this week by Alpine Eagle, a Munich-based startup who've just raised$10 million seed, led by IQ Capital here in the UK. I think they're in Cambridge. Because from what we were talking about before, They are a drone blocking and attacking startup. So they send up drones to find and attack other drones. And I love that cat and mouse. And especially after seeing pictures of one of the trucks that we took to Ukraine being destroyed by a fiber optic drone. So that's what that was called my eye.

1:03:21That's Alpine Eagle, the drone blocking. Lomax, what was yours? I like to deal because I think it's the biggest deal that's ever come out of Belfast. So we should be celebrating things like this, which is the, exactly, which is the series B of CloudSmith, working on cloud software security. Great to see some of our friends, Frontline, et cetera, on the cap table. And great to see the Irish ecosystem and continue to actually, and in our portfolio, we have three companies out of Ireland. I have to just qualify. This is the Northern Ireland ecosystem. Otherwise, we're going to offend every Irish person on the planet.

1:03:56This isn't Malcast in the Northern Irish ecosystem. There we go. Pete, what was yours? Yeah, I mean, I was looking around just seeing if there's something I'd missed. And the one that caught my attention was a company called Quintexa, who raised 175 million Series F. They're a British startup that were mainly known for their AI powered sort of abilities to fight money laundering and fraud. but I think what they've kind of been able to do in that sort of you know eight nine year journey is like get into understanding you know structured how to structure unstructured data for large organizations both government contracts large banks and so on and that's that's kind of like fueling this this insight that they can actually help these these large organizations government contracts in in a big way and I think it's just scraping the surface so it's just great to see a british startup that's like bring on the you know leading the charge with that and so i wanted to pull those out you know and and give them a bit of uh kudos give them a give them a handshake and a bit of rah rah why not loving it what's up what people are you up to this week to be honest i mean it's the end of the week right but i think between now and uh this time next week i'm i'm most looking forward to going on the ice ski trip uh which is in to call my air with 80 other founders and investors it's not this weekend it's the following weekend so i'm basically being a bit of a hermit this week because my wife's being a saint away from thursday next week um other than that um i'm just going to be uh other than trying to book my holiday for the summer with a fam i'm going to be mainly focused on more partnership conversations we're getting huge traction with lab groups so we're just like there's a lot to sort of go through there so really excited about that.

1:05:38Lomax, what are you up to? Apart from living in your new beach front office. Furnishing the new office. Getting my surfboard stand set up. Shays long. This is ridiculous. As I say, closing this deal, rocket cargo investment as we speak. So I'll be catching up with the founder there. I'll be waiting for my CT scan results. Hopefully, but all will be well, I'm sure. All will be well. All will be well. A deal I did, just to give another hat tip to an ISA, Andrew Lacey's company, Pronuvo, talking about scans. Yeah. They raised a good, is it 120 million, I think, Series B. Nice. Yeah. Amazing. Awesome.

1:06:19Used by the likes of Keith Kardashian. Yeah, I did it myself and I have to say, I really rate the experience. You basically get a full body MRI and it gives you, you know, cancer risk at stage zero one based on that scan. But it also generally looks at things like your posture and it puts the scans in like, like video scans on an app on your phone so you can also show them off prenuvo prenuvo prenuvo is it did they have it in the uk yet or not just in the us i i don't think so yet but they've expanded quite the quite a big footprint they were only in vancouver and then the valley and then now they're i think across the us but they were in new york or texas as well or something maybe yeah i mean i think they're in i think they're in a bunch of states now but i think they're going to come over to to you know europe at some point but andrew's a great great founder and you know really really sort of impressed with what he's accomplished there i've not heard of them i definitely want to do a full mri if i can if i i'm fascinated by just the kind of data insights that's one thing the thing to do is the full mri and also do a ct dna test which i think you can't really get for screening in the uk you should go and do it when next time in the estate put one in a couple of grand it looks like circulation tumor dna in your blood i mean i do one now every four months to check for occurrence of disease yeah it's expensive but but um and it's not covered by insurance but i would look at you know the there's a gray the grail test the garvey test um yeah like not available as a screening tool in in europe i think book it in when you're next in the states and that that's i'm gonna be knocking you both up for for these kinds of things i don't know what these things are um my this week i'm i'm yeah what are you up to dad i'm with a data-driven vc crew this week i'm looking into how to automate my job away which will be um long overdue and i am i'm going to do some small personal tickets little 100k tickets to early early early stage startups i want to get five done this side of the summer so i'm working at how to meet really smart founders doing doing i haven't quite haven't quite sussed out that stress what's your sweet spot what are the kind of things industrials industrials early early early anything in manufacturing industry ag health food anything kind of early people maybe even found a dating maybe even going that that far back but wow just trying to find some people who want to step out want to try something new that's that's the that's the that's the thinking yeah all right my men what a what a joy um yeah love love speaking with you pete thanks so much for your time um we'll catch you next week pleasure to join you guys thanks for thanks guys was really fun

1:09:01tear down this wall it's more than just an ally this this is a union of values Let's start acting