E615 | EUCVC Summit 2025: Simon Boas Hoffmeyer, Carlsberg & Kasper Hulthin, Future Five: Resetting ESG: Beyond Compliance to Real Change

0:00ESG is under pressure, from political pushback to accusations of greenwashing. But is it still a lever for real change? Simon Boas Hofmeyer, Global Head of Sustainability and ESG at Carlsberg, and Kasper Huthen, Serial Entrepreneur and Investor at Future 5, explore how Europe's corporates and founders can move beyond compliance. From embedding sustainability into brand and culture to funding transformative solutions, this session asks, can ESG still deliver or does it need a reset? So, ESG in Europe changed quite dramatically. Simon, just going over to you, you represent Carlsberg. How do you respond to the charts that ESG has become more about reporting and optics than driving real value?

0:55I think that probably calls for a quote from Mark Twain. The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. I think the area of ESG has just been hit by a triple whammy of negativity. Number one, the zero interest environment is gone. So therefore, there are some startups that were hyped, green hydrogen systems and others that have failed. And number two is Trump. Of course, the whole counter kind of D &I discussion and whether it's actually discriminative to be inclusive. That has also meant quite a lot. And then number three is that EU has really fudged up the whole legislation, like flip-flopping, going back and forth.

1:34That doesn't help anyone. So I think we're just hit by a wave of negativity. But everyone who actually works within sustainability and ESG, we can't really see that backlash happening. We still do what we do. We still work on changing things from the inside, and we continue to do that. Kasper, successful CEO, entrepreneur, investor. you know do you think ESG as a concept is still credible or does it need a fundamental reset I mean first of all it's probably never been like it's getting more urgent by the day the problem is nobody gives a shit and and that is the issue from a startup perspective so I think at least it needs a reframing of what it was right like people are not paying for sustainability as premium anymore so sustainability needs to be a financial return and and that that's at least the change we see in startup simon so you know you know how do you make this business case internally when you go out and do some of these things that you know will be part of saving the planet well so i i think we have to remember that sustainability wasn't invented for being only a good business case.

2:49If you kind of have the two outer layers, then number one is it's pure philanthropy. So we just do it because it feels right and it gives us a warm, fuzzy feeling, and then you have the pure business case out here. And I think when you look at everything that I do, then there are varieties of all those things in there. And I usually say that we operate with facts, faith, and fear. So the facts are, how can we charge a price? By the way, we can't. So that's never going to happen. But what is the faith then? Well, it is that what if we can actually keep selling our products and we will be chosen over competition if they're sustainable.

3:19And fear is, will there be this legislation or taxation, all backlashes that will happen whenever we do things. So if you keep working like that, then I'm sure that you will have a better, more resilient business on the sustainability initiatives you do. But it's never just one or the other with what we do. Casper, back when I did my latest investments in sustainability back in 22, 23, 24, My vision was kind of ESG, we're not going to talk about it in the future. It's going to just be a part of the inherent DNA of a founder. How is that today? How do you see it? Is it a checkbox exercise? What do the founders do today?

3:58No, I think that is also true. And I think that's where we need to go. Also, to Simon's point, I've been part of building a company called Normative, which is the leading common accounting platform. And there you can say that the company is doing ESG. but I've also been part of building other things where as a startup it's not that being ESG as the company is worth anything but we see it in normative to your point like there's been a large drive towards legislations and compliance and that's kind of been the negative side of it like negative downside protection and unfortunately there haven't been much transparency and I think with more accounting more transparency you will start seeing what Simon talks about which is the upside that you can you can add value to your products compared to competition.

4:53And Simon being part of such a huge company as Carlsberg, right, you know, how do you ensure that sustainability is not just this marketing exercise, right, but it's something that you bring into the culture and decision-making, right? And I'll ask you the same afterwards, right? Well, I think to begin with, we also have to be real about what we do as Carlsberg. We sell liquids that either contain alcohol, sugar or sweeteners in cans and bottles and sell it. It's not a thing that people really need to sustain life on this planet. And that means that inherently we will be under more and more pressure to explain why are you here and why do you have a raison d 'etre, right?

5:33And that's truly, I truly, with my entire being, believe that if we keep striving for reducing our carbon, using water as well as we can, providing water back to societies if water is at risk, I believe we can maintain the entire foundation upon which we are based, which is that we would like to keep producing our products. And that's very different for us that is already there than a small startup that is just being created or a born green startup, which is actively contributing to better the world. So we all come from different stages. But for us, it's really about being allowed to do what we do well, create great beers and soft drinks for everyone.

6:14And Casper, with these early stage founders, do you see the same? Is it part of the natural value creation and the whole framing of how they set up the company at the get-go? Yeah, I think it also creates a lot of opportunities. I've been part of setting up Cost Capital, which is a fund. We invest in the input for the future food system, so in the area of Simon. And there we see a lot of the natural inputs being under pressure, coffee, chocolate, whatever you go to the supermarket. All the good stuff. All the good stuff. People can see the prices are rising. Unfortunately, that's happening because of climate change and sustainability.

6:50So there, the value we are adding by doing alternative coffee, alternative chocolate, is not an ESG play. We're making cheaper coffee, we're making cheaper chocolate, but it's also better for the planet. So that's what I'm in the beginning. Is that the value point you go for now when you see these early stage startups, real products? Show me a real product. Yeah, I think that was a bit my point. like the premium on just being a sustainability company doesn't really work. Like I've been an LP in a couple of funds. They've rebranded from sustainability fund to an energy transition because a lot of it is an energy problem, right?

7:31So it's being reframed into something that fits better into the economic model that we all know. And I think maybe that's not a bad thing. I don't know. Simon, you know, looking at working, you know, from a corporate with, you know not that mature companies you know what what does the partnerships look like what what are you going for right do you do off take agreements can you go into that stuff yeah well we we're really looking at everything and you can say if we start out by saying there is something that is changing like the the weather is changing nature is changing our availability of natural resources is changing and we have to change with that in order to maintain our license to operate And in there, yes, there are – weekly, I'm receiving emails from new startups that can help me measure soil health on fields with satellites and sensors on the fields to measure insects flapping their wings in order to assess biodiversity.

8:28I think there is a gigantic opportunity within that. And if we just stayed with the ones that already existed, then we wouldn't get the tools that we need in order to drive change. So, well, we're basically working with anyone who has solutions to the real problems that we're facing. Kasper, you're investing into the future. What is the future within ESG and so forth? What are you looking for right now? Like, as I said, a couple of examples of those things where there is a natural sort of, the natural things are under pressure. I think it's actually very important. I'm happy to hear Simon says he wants to work with everyone that has a good idea.

9:06Yeah, did you all hear that? The problem with venture is that venture goes where the money is. Now everyone invests in defense and AI, and actually when climate was on the top, there was three times more investments in NFTs and crypto than there was in climate. So venture is a game where you go where the money is, and I think there is still a lot of change to be made in this, but I also think investments need to be other where than just venture. So it's very important that we have the corporates investing into this by using it. Thank you both of you for sharing your ESG perspective. Thank you.