SuperAngel #193 Alex Berriche, Fleet

0:00Hi, and welcome back to the European VC, the go-to-to-podcast for everything European VC. If you love the show, share with your friends and join our newsletter at eu.vc. Welcome to yet another episode of the Super Angel Podcast on the European VC pod. Today, we are welcoming Alexander Barish, one of Europe's absolute premier super angels and Sequoia Scout with more than 80, that's eight, zero seed investments under his belt. Yeah, and let's just pause on that because when you listen to this episode, you'll notice that Alexander is not in a rush to big himself up. So know before going into this episode that you're listening to one of the best performing angels in Europe.

0:46So don't be tricked by the humility. Alex is also the CEO and co-founder of Fleet, a French B2B startup focused on simplifying the equipment, management, and renewal of computers and cell phones for startups and SMBs. And this is also one of the big takeaways from both this and many of the other super angel interviews. These angels are leveraging their day-to-day job slash own startup incredibly efficiently. Andreas, share with us some of your career learnings. Yeah, so I want to say two things here. First of all, the role of round leads and the trust in networks and the trends that Alex is investing in is really how he thinks about that and frames it is very interesting, I think.

1:31So listen up for that bit of the interview. And then secondly, I was surprised when I heard him talk about how he has really come to realize that what he needs to focus on as an angel is the founder ambition level, the ability to attract the best of the best on the founder side, both in terms of the right employees, but also in terms of the right angels and also in terms of the right partners and customers and so on, and their ability to articulate their vision and thinking. And I think that it doesn't probably come as a surprise to many in the audience here that there's nothing I enjoy more than people that know how to articulate themselves.

2:08Maybe that's part of us running a podcast. But I also think that it's such a good proof of intellectual capacity and capability. And I'm not one of them. So sorry for always branding on. But everyone, let's get into the episode. I'll shut up.

2:27Is this a dream? No, it's not a dream. I'm an angel. Why would God send me an angel? Because God knows that everyone needs a little coaching now and then. I'm loving angels. I saw an angel. All angels say for long days. Please say it's me an angel. The smile on her face. Being together, but don't love me. Thanks, let's find an angel. Girl, girl. Hi, and welcome to the Super Angel Podcast, the go-to podcast for angels backing the next generation of European unicorn founders. If you love our show, do drop us a review, share it with your friends, and join our community at eu.bc. Today, we're happy to welcome you to Alex, one of Europe's absolute premier super angels and Sequoia Scout, with more than 80 seed investments under his belt.

3:20Alex is also the CEO and co-founder of Fleet, a French B2B startup focused on simplifying the equipment, management and renewal of computers and cell phones for startups and SMBs. If you're an angel listening in and wanting to get closer to the European angel scene, do not hesitate to reach out to us. We'd love to connect and see how we can play together. And now, some words from our beloved sponsor.

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4:36Alex, welcome to the Super Angel Podcast. We are so happy to have you with us. Thanks a lot. I'm super happy to be here too. Thanks for joining the pod, Alex. Super happy to have you. A good friend and quite a successful entrepreneur. So very excited to get digging. Maybe you want to share with the audience a bit about your background and what brought you into angel investing? Yeah, I'm Alex. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Fleet. I launched Fleet almost four years ago. In April 2019, we are a bootstrap company, so we never raised any euro. It's a bit something special in this market. Before that, I used to work at Rocket Internet and in a net tech company called Ironhack.

5:13And I started angel investing a bit before Fleet. And I'm especially more active for two years now. I think I'm in maybe plus 80 company now, which is quite much. And yeah. Tell us a bit more about maybe some of the deals you've done. You said 80, which is quite exciting. You know, what excites you? Maybe you want to share a bit more about a story of a deal that you've been through. I'm a pretty generalist investor. I'm not just into fintech or SaaS or marketplace. I'm pretty generalist. Historically, I start doing a lot in France, but I'm doing more and more in the UK, Germany, Israel, little by little.

5:50But a deal I'm excited about, it's always difficult to choose between all your participation and I'm excited by many of them. But maybe I can talk about one of the most recent ones, which is Robco. I did it with Sequoia recently, and I'm super excited by this one. Want to share us a bit more about it? Yeah, it's a robotic solution for SMBs. And I think it's very interesting what they are building, especially in this market of labor shortage. And they are doing it also in Germany, which makes a lot of sense because there is a lot of industrial companies there. So I'm pretty excited by this one.

6:27The team is amazing. So it's promising. I can't wait to see more results from there. And how about today, Alex? Are you still acting CEO in your company or are you angel investing full-time? What's your day like? Yeah, I'm acting CEO at Fleet. I'm lucky in a sense because I would say Fleet is focusing on SMB and startups. So what I'm doing as an angel is pretty useful also for Fleet because it creates some sales opportunity for fleet. We can do also some partnership thanks to it. I know you receive, for instance, Roxanne Varza from Station F, which is also a scout of Sequoia. I met her through being an angel investor, and we have a partnership now between fleet and Station F.

7:10So it creates quite some opportunity in sales, marketing, PR for fleet. So the time I'm spending as an angel investor is also useful for fleet. Yeah, we're LP investing, right? And that's definitely something we have seen in the teams that are building, you know, that want to build their own venture fund. They often have some type of, you know, day to day business as an angel, where there's such a good match between how they make their bread and butter or make money for their bread and butter. And then at the same time, then they say, well, I might as well attach investing to this. And then that's the angel activity.

7:44And then at some point they say, well, now I'm ready to pivot into the other role. So that's an interesting journey. And I can imagine that it's really synergistic and also the reason why you've been able to do 80 investments. Yeah, yeah, definitely. There is a lot of synergy, as you say. And also it's refreshing to meet founder, to listen from new ideas. Since Fleet is bootstrap, also we don't have a board. So, you know, like I need to always look for new ideas, new trend. You know, it's super refreshing and it helped me, I think, to be a better CEO also. Yeah, expand on that, actually. So professionally, directly, it's given you, you know, BD opportunities and likewise.

8:21But personally, as you said, it's expanded kind of your thinking. You want to share a bit more about how do you see angel investing adding beyond kind of the investment process itself? Yes. So for instance, you know, like, yeah, it helped me to reflect, you know, on new trends, to make some partnership, not just BD, but, you know, like partnerships. So I invested in a cybersecurity company recently. We might do a partnership, you know, to add it in the SaaS fleet. So it's more product partnerships and a BG opportunity. Yeah. And also, like, for instance, we launched a product-led channel for Fleet.

8:55So basically, like, some people can, you know, like, create a SaaS on Fleet for free and then start renting a computer. And so I learned a lot about product-led growth company being an investor, you know, what works, how to do a proper product launch. And then I have networks so I can call, you know, like some founder, like, oh, how did you do it? you do your product and launch. And so, yeah, so it's really nurturing a lot, my thinking as an entrepreneur. How about personally, what has Angel Investing given you there? And maybe also touch a bit, if you want to, on your personal side, what is the life of Alex and all that?

9:33Where are you in life? Yeah, so no, personally, like many people, but I always love to be surrounded by, you know, like driven people, smart people, ambitious people. and I think it's an amazing, I'm pretty passionate by business myself, so I'm reading sometimes some books quite much on it, like on Journey of Entrepreneurs, so I'm very interested by it and I'm feeling very privileged to meet some founder at the first day of their journey where they tell me about their vision. Many times it's super ambitious, bright people with a lot of experience, so I'm feeling very privileged to be one of the first persons that talk about their project and ask me for my advice and be part of the journey is very, yeah, like I think an amazing privilege.

10:20To be honest, I'm doing it a lot for the, yeah, like personal side of it and the relationship building with bright people. So I'm super excited by that. It's like manufactured serendipity, no? It's like you're putting your place, you're exposing yourself to like interact with all those interesting people, right? And some of it like will have direct impact to your business, but some of it will. Yeah, sometimes to my business, sometimes I can invest, sometimes I might make some money, sometimes I might lose some. But, you know, like, yeah, I'm more doing it for the journey, basically, I think, than, you know, like the objective and the pure.

10:56As you said, serendipity, some amazing thing might come from it and sometimes no, and it's fine. I love that it starts from there. And in reality, like Alex is so much underplaying himself. He's like the go-to like French angel in my view and about to be kind of the same for Europe. So watch out, guys. But I love it coming bottom up from, you know, the learnings and enjoying the ride. It's always the way. I think that's incredibly important that you state that, Anthony, especially because that's the pain of being in Europe, right? That everyone doesn't know each other and you don't automatically just know a name, even though that name is a superstar.

11:32So in that sense, because I think that there's a super important cue to anyone listening about the humility that you bring to the table, because there's nothing better than people who really do rock the world, but you don't feel it if you don't know it, right? And they don't make sure that you keep hearing that. So I like that a lot. With that said. Oh, no. It's not about the thesis.

11:58That was the beautiful sound of us going into the investment thesis segment. And Alex, let me just ask you, because you said it just before, Or I'm a generalist. I do kind of bit everything. But give us that real rundown. You said 80 investments. How many per year? For how long have you been investing? How do you think about the different segments that you're investing in? Even though you're a generalist, I imagine that there are places where you do a bit more than others. And are there anything that you really shy away from? In 2023, I hope to do like 40 to 50 deals, I would say. So it's quite much.

12:33So it's ramping up. So I did 18 in the last five years. But I think now it's going to be more 40 to 50. I'm planning to do at least 50 % maybe in France. This is where I have the strongest network. But as I said earlier in the podcast, I want to expand more and more in Germany, UK, a few in the Nordic and Israel when I have the opportunity. Yeah, I'm trying to back mostly like tech business now. So I'm shying away like a more traditional business. I'm not doing so much direct to consumer stuff like this. like pure e-commerce. I'm more doing SaaS, fintech, cyber, marketplace, a few. So like classic VC-backable business.

13:18I'm super attentive to quality of the founder, for sure. I think this is part of the reason why I'm a generalist is because I want to work with the best founder and you can find some amazing founder working in fintech, but also some amazing working on SaaS. And it's really a pity to miss Zeus in fintech if you say you just do SaaS and not fintech. So I just want to, you know, work with the best founder. So this is a very important part. So usually I'm working a lot with, you know, like either second-time founder or also people, you know, that have been in leadership role in tier one startup, like in unicorns or stuff like this.

13:57So I'm investing a lot into this profile. I consider myself as a follower investor, no? So I'm not leading deal, no? I'm an angel, so I'm following. To me, it means a lot to be following. It means like you don't set the terms. I'm attentive also to the quality of the lead. I'm following some good lead, good lead investor, or some good follower investor like Cocoa. So I'm very careful to invest also, like quality of the team and quality of the investor. It's pretty important for me. As I said earlier, like part of my journey is to work with amazing people. So, you know, like being attentive to those quality of people is important for me.

14:36And then in terms of industries, as you said, I'm pretty generalist. My deal flow is a bit the reflect of the market. So for sure, last year, there have been a lot of web-free. Now there is not anymore web-free. Now there is a lot of generative AI. So for sure, I receive deal flow based on the current trends, which play quite some role in terms of the deal flow, I think. But like anyone, no? Yeah, I'm pretty humble, as you say, on this. I'm trying to, you know, I think what is really humbling in this industry is that when you make a deal, you don't really know until seven years maybe if it's a good deal or not.

15:13No. Some deals maybe I think now are amazing ones, going to end up crashing. Some deals I think now that are going nowhere might become some unicorns or more. So you don't really know. So I think with doing so many deals like I do, it's bringing more and more data to my algorithm. No, so I think I'm improving little by little. So it's one thing to think about allocation in terms of money, right? But also, how about time? Because 80 investments, that is a lot to both, you know, even keep tabs on, but much less also add value to. So how do you think about that? And how do you, you know, make sure that you have a value add that fits with your deployment rate?

15:53I think in the relationship I want to have with founder, I try to, I see it as pull, not push. No, so I'm not talking to them proactively on topic. I have a chat room on WhatsApp with them and they can anytime write me and ask me questions, ask me for intro. It's a bit something random. Sometimes I can build amazing relationships with some founder. Some founder, to be honest, I have almost zero relationship. They have the opportunity to build it and I'm not going to push anything. I put a small ticket. I don't want to be intrusive. I don't want to push for any stuff. If I have an idea or sometimes I'm sharing some nice to read or if I'm spotting a competitor launching or something, I'm pinging them.

16:35But I don't want, you know, like to be a part of their business. But they can anytime go to me, ask me questions. Yeah, I'm a pretty responsive person in general. So I think if someone writes me on WhatsApp, he will have an answer same day for sure. Yeah, I can answer by a voice note or I can call him back. I try to be very fast and responsive. And yeah. And have you seen a recurring theme of things that they come to you for or, you know, the other way around? Are there particular areas that you think that you're well positioned to help them with when they come to you? Yes, sometimes they call me for very tactical stuff, like how do you pay yourself?

17:16Do you have an holding company? Or some stuff like this. How do you buy an apartment when you are a founder? Some very tactical stuff, personal. I have an issue with my co-founder. How should I handle it? So since they know I'm not a VC and I'm not going to lead their next round, so they don't have to look good in front of me. So they can be very comfortable. And so I'm really into this, like psychological stuff. And one called me recently and said, okay, I got pissed with the team and the team told me I was aggressive. Is it acceptable or not? So not just like chatting with someone you trust and you feel comfortable with and you know it's going to stay confidential and you're not going to share it or not going to make a negative image of yourself.

18:05so on this I'm helping yeah and then I'm helping quite much on intros so I can help on you know like making intro for their current round or next round or help them to craft a good cap table so you should take free fund or you should take one, some micro VC had a lot of value giving some advice of French company I advise them a lot to bring some international people to the cap table also to start making international equity story So I'm hoping on crafting the cap table also, preparing next round and pinging the fund for next round. I can definitely attest to the much more open kind of conversation that you have with founders when there's not the dynamic of ownership and leading the next round.

18:51And it's not a better or worse thing. It's just a very complementary side to the table than what a lead VC brings to the table and the relationship that a founder builds with them. And we want to see also Cocoa as part of the angel syndicate get be treated as part of an angel, but bring something very different to the table because you have that unique operating and founding experience, whereas kind of we try to connect to people like you, but also be a sounding board when it comes to fundraise dynamics and a lot of other things, right? You said you are planning to do 50 % in France and probably, you know, obviously the rest outside of France, but then a focus on Germany and a bit in UK and Northern Europe.

19:30I'm curious to hear why you're thinking about internationalizing in that way? So I have like a planning of, you know, like money to deploy in the next, you know, 12 months, for instance. I know on this money, you know, like on average it's going to be ticket size average of 30K because some deal is going to be competitive. So I can do up to 50K ticket, but I think on average it's going to be more 30, so 10 to 50 with average of 30. so then I have quite some deals to do if I want to deploy this amount of money then I'm thinking, okay, is there enough good deal in France to do a 40 deal next year?

20:10I'm not sure it's an opportunity to start building network and deal flow in other geographies I'm also interested myself, you know, like to develop network all across Europe and finally I'm also opening fleet in Germany in UK this year So as well, there's going to be some energy of going there, traveling, making some partnership and so on. I'd love to unpack that further, not the part with fleet necessarily, but in the process of going to these other markets, because it's what I hear from a lot of angels. I want to do more international deals, but my deal is great here in Denmark or wherever. I'm kind of not feeling that I'm seeing the best deals when as soon as I go outside of my market and when I do, I am having a really hard time getting into them.

20:54How do you think about that? Would you have any advice for people on that front? On this, I'm thinking I'm pretty privileged because as I say, Anthony, like with a lot of humility, I'm a bit becoming some sort of go-to angel in France now. And Paris is a pretty hot spot at the moment. So there is a lot of, you know, foreign year VC coming to Paris. And so I have already a lot of relationship with international VC and BA coming a lot to Paris. So then it's just like I'm helping them in France and they start helping me in their home geographies now. So it's pretty simple. There's nothing to rocket science here, but yeah.

21:33So basically they're cultivating VC relationships, NBA relationships internationally, right? That you've kind of built already because you've added value to them. Okay, makes a ton of sense. Assessing founders. How do you think about that? Is there something specific you want to look at when you assess founders? Is there something that gives away that you don't want to invest in a founder, like any tell specifically, anything that you really try to assess there that you want to share? So I think my algorithm is improving little by little, no, with experience, no, for sure. So, you know, like the more meeting and deal I'm looking at, the more, you know, like I'm improving how I look at Funder.

22:08What I'm careful about now and more and more is what's the ambition, no? Like what do they want to build, no? And I'm more and more reflecting that when you invest in seed and pre-seed, you are looking for power low. You are looking for very strong return on some deals. And then to build those companies that do 50x return on some deals, you need a lot of ambition. And so I'm pretty careful now of what's the ambition of the founder or the funding team, what do they want to achieve, how fast they want to go, what returns they want to put, you know what velocity no and you can pretty well feel it no like okay i already hire free developer i want to do this and this and that and you know like you can't stop them and and they're getting traction and velocity and speed you know so i'm very careful on that no like what do they want to achieve what speed i tend to like also you know like more and more founders that are a bit product driven no that have a i think you build better company not just being a a business guy or an ops guy, but that, you know, you want to build something scalable, a good product.

23:18You know, you are careful with this shit and you don't want to, you know, like have technical debt on the long run. So you are very product driven and put a lot of product thought in your product. So, yeah, ambition, product. And then I would say how they manage to surround themselves also. And so which funds they manage to attract, you know, So how careful they are on some stuff, like quality of the first hire, quality of their BA, quality of the VC they bring in. If you want to build a very long-term company for 10 years that become a billion-dollar company, you have to be super careful of who you bring on board, both in your team and even more on your cap table.

24:00And it's a very long-term relationship, so you have to be very careful of how they are curating people around them. And I think the final thing, like the first point I'm very careful about is I really like people that articulate, no? And you feel like they have a vision, but not only they say, oh, I want to achieve that. They start thinking, okay, I'm going to do this and then this. If this doesn't work, I'm going to do that. And you feel like it's really structured and they think of the plan many times and they're anticipating many stuff. So more cerebral people, more thinkers, no? Totally. And that gives us some clarity of mind, right?

24:38Because it's a giveaway on the depth of knowledge they have of the passion area they're going after, the homework they've done. It actually really shows that. Maybe one more question before we go into the segment on core learnings, although some of them are, which is upside potential. So I think we've had different views here when it comes to angel investors, right? But I know VCs obviously are usually optimizing for investing in companies that have uncapped upside potential. How do you think about that when you invest? Do you assess that at all? So yeah, myself, I'm trying to do that more and more.

25:10You know, again, so it's a learning, no? I have little by little. And the more I read about VCs, the more I read about investment, you know, like I think I start to understand just a little bit better, not perfectly yet, But what power loom means, no? And I think you need really to reflect like this as an investor in early stage. And early stage, I read something recently, like it's one of the only opportunities where you can invest. And if you lose, you just lose one, but there is uncapped potential, no? And so you have really to look for this opportunity, no? So look for stuff that can do 50x or 100x.