Ari Katz. Exited Founder: Why Psychedelics as My New Venture

25:24And I know it's a very popular book with post-exit founders, which is really just the concept that most people spend their whole life trying to climb that first mountain. And And the first mountain is, you know, personal kind of security, success, financially, taking care of your family, your wife, your kids, etc. And most people spend their whole life climbing that mountain and good for them and keep going and you'll get there. For those of us fortunate enough to summit, you know, to peak that mountain, what you have is an opportunity to, again, make a decision. One option you have is to just look back to the mountain you just climbed and admire it and say, wow, what a mountain.

26:02I can't believe I did that. And for someone who's maybe 75, 80 years old during their exit, maybe that's the right thing for them is look back and be proud of what you built. Be proud of what you've left behind and ride off into the sunset. Good for you. For other people, and especially me being 40 years old, you look out into the distance and you say, there's another mountain. And that's way bigger. Let's go climb that mountain. And that mountain, according to the book, is generally a mountain that's more rooted in, you know, community centric and world centric and doing something bigger than just you.

26:36And for me, that was kind of a mindset that ultimately led me to take the experience that I had in my own journey of navigating this kind of personal wellness path. it allowed me to think about that and ultimately led me to start my new business now, which is really rooted in giving people the same breakthrough that I was able to experience with psychedelic medicine, you know, bringing that to the masses. Cause when I went down that path, that's what ultimately led me to discover psychedelic medicine as an alternative in the mental health space. And you know, without that two year deep dive, I never would have found it.

27:13And so the way I looked at it was if it took me two years of complete financial freedom and focused dedication to find this remedy, most people don't have that opportunity. They don't have two years. They don't have, you know, they're busy. So I said, how can I bring them to it without requiring that two-year journey? And that's what my new company, Roar, is all about. So let's talk a little bit more about that on the practical side of things. Like I come to you, I'm an ex-visit founder, I'm confused. I'm depressed. What is it you would offer me from the psychedelics world, which you are sure from your experience actually works?

27:50Yeah. Yeah. So I think that the key with psychedelics and it's really the key with any type of mental health exercise, let's call it, is that it's not a magic silver bullet. it. It's not a pill that you're going to put on your tongue and you're going to change overnight. It's, I look at psychedelics as a catalyst. The way I kind of like to describe it is, you know, there's a door and behind that door is the best version of you. Let's just say that very kind of, you know, high level. What psychedelics is going to do is it's going to elevate you to a level that you could see the door and psychedelics is going to actually unlock that door.

28:33but you still have to walk all the way over to the door. You need to open it. You need to walk through it. And the way I describe a psychedelic experience, and this sounds scary, but it's not meant to be. It's, it's really meant to be the authentic raw experience that it really is, which is talk about that mountain example, right? You're climbing that mountain. You look back, you see everyone you love right down there. All the things, you know, all the things you're comfortable with all your safe space is down below and you just climb that mountain. And then you look out the other side of the mountain and it's like black and cloudy and scary.

29:08And you don't know what's what and what you have to do to have the best experience and the best outcomes with psychedelic medicine is you need to jump off that mountain in the direction of the darkness, in the direction of the unknown. And when we talk about kind of the best success metrics, when it comes to psychedelic medicine, the first thing is being able to release control. And to me, you know, from a founder standpoint or an exited founder standpoint, you know, we're so used to being in control. We're so used to not taking our hands off the wheel. In my case, in my business, the best success actually happened when I started to release control, when I started to delegate around me and empower those around me and put them in positions to lead.

29:51And my business thrived when I started to pull back. And, you know, to me, that's not a surprise when you really think about it, the more you can, you know, you can only lift what you can lift. But when you have 10 amazing people around you and you put them in a position to be successful and you pull back a little, now everyone can lift more. And with psychedelics, I think that's kind of what prepared me for taking that leap of faith was recognizing, I can't do this alone. And I'm willing to, I'm willing to, I want to seek, I'm a seeker. I want to see what's out there. And it was this natural curiosity that really allowed me to take that leap with which when I share that story with people, they're like, Oh my God, Ari, that's terrifying.

30:35Like who would, I'm like, it's not for everyone. And I'm not trying to sell you on it. When you're ready, you'll know. But for me, it was a life changing experience. I'm a religious Jew. I believe in God. I've always believed in God. But what this experience allowed me to experience was a connection to the spiritual realm in this universe that I had never in all of my days of prayers and meditation and, you know, learning and really like spiritual. I'm a spiritual person naturally, but I never experienced anything like this. And when I came back from my experience, it was as if I had just put on a brand new pair of glasses and everything looked different and everything felt different.

31:20And I was rewired and reset like a computer that after 40 years, unplugged, reboot, and all of a sudden it works well again. And that's kind of how I felt. And so for a founder, and it's interesting that we're talking psychedelics because I know in the founder space, a lot of the boom right now is happening in Silicon Valley. People like Elon Musk and Sergey Brin. And there's plenty of very, very successful public CEOs who have talked about how psychedelics have really changed their life. And I think some of them are speaking from it from a recreational standpoint and some are speaking from a mental health context.

32:01But I know that in general, what I found is that entrepreneurs are the seekers, right? They're the ones searching for more, searching for meaning. And when they have this liquidity event, if they're like me, that's where they start looking. They say, what is my purpose? What is my meaning? And once you start down that journey, you go swimming a little bit, you eventually find psychedelics and you're like, oh, geez. Now I got to make a decision. Do I really want to, am I really serious about this? Because if I'm really serious about figuring out the answers to this question, um, then I'm going to have to really completely let go and jump.

32:37And it really separates those who are, you know, ready for that jump from those who are not, because it's scary. It's like jumping out of a freaking airplane, Anastasia. And, um, I think if I would have known how scary it was, it would have been harder to do, But I just, I didn't focus on that. I said, let's see what happens. And it was the best decision I could have made. Incredible. Incredible. So for somebody who hasn't tried psychedelics, what's the best one to start with, in your opinion? And I'm talking about people from our sort of universe of exited founders. Yeah. So I can be honest with you and say that, first of all, I am not a psychedelic expert.

33:20I'm happy to connect you with the people who are. What I can tell you is that in America right now, the only legal psychedelic that you can use is ketamine. And so there are a number of ketamine clinics across the country, and there are a number of telehealth providers that will send you a lozenger version that you put under your tongue, which is what I had. And you could do that from the safety and comfort of your home. And then there's IV clinics where you can go and get this intravenously. But of course, there are a ton of other, first of all, the clinical studies that are happening right now in this space are, you know, every day there's another breakthrough, whether it's MDMA, you know, ecstasy, psilocybin, LSD.

34:00So many different psychedelics are being studied right now, and they are all moving swiftly through the approval process. You already have psilocybin legalized in Oregon and in Colorado, and a few other states are really around the corner. They say that New Jersey, where I live, will be kind of selling magic mushrooms by the end of the year. And so you have a movement right now that's happening. And I think that in order to fully recognize the, you know, the power of that, you know, there's going to be a there's going to be a menu of options that are going to become available right now. Ketamine is the only one.

34:35If you want to experience some of these other, you know, psychedelics, you have to go overseas. And ayahuasca is something that a lot of people talk about as being life changing. I don't know enough about this stuff, but what I find is that ketamine was, it was an entry point for me. You know, it opened the door and now I'm in this space and now there might be 20 levels deeper, but getting to the first level in my, from my limited perspective might've been the hardest because it's taking that leap of faith. Once you've done it once, you're no longer afraid. And so ketamine is a phenomenal option for people.

35:09And the main reason why is that, I mean, all psychedelics are known to kind of put your brain in a state of neuroplasticity. And what that means is that it's taking all of these neural connections that your brain has established and strengthened over the course of your life, and it's breaking them down. And so let's take a very classic example of a young girl or a young boy who remembers when they were five years old, they saw a dog and the dog started barking at them and boom, they were terrified. They thought they were going to get eaten. They ran to their mommy. They hid. And now for the next 50 years, they're like terrified of dogs.

35:44Let's take a step back. And I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor. But my understanding is the reason why that plays out that way is because when you're five years old, you make this connection in your brain. You make this association with a dog. The dog barks, you get scared, your brain says, okay, dog barking equals scary, make a connection. And every time you see a dog again, your brain says, my job is to protect you, Ari. So I'm going to build that connection even stronger. Dog, scary, stay away. Dog, scary, stay away. And over time, that connection gets so strengthened that by the time you're 45, 50 years old, you can't be in an elevator with a dog because you're so terrified and your brain is trying to protect you.

36:24It's like the same way when a girl breaks up with you and she says, we need to talk. And you're like, I know what that means, right? Your brain knows. You know what's next. I see a dog. I know what's next. Over time, your brain makes these really strong connections. And that's a good thing. That's good that your brain does that. It protects you. If you know you touch the oven when it's hot, you're going to get burned. You're not going to do it again. Your brain reminds you. It knows. but sometimes the way you experience things, you know, is not an accurate portrayal of what happened, so to speak, or there's an alternative way to look at it.

36:57And in the case of the dog, it might've been a cute little chihuahua, but you remember it as like a bloodhound, because that's how you experienced it. And so what ketamine and psychedelic medicine do is they relax your brain to a state of what's called neuroplasticity, which is like this most relaxed state of mind where all of those neural pathways that have been so tightly connected for 40 years, they start to break down and you're able to build new pathways. And the way I would describe what would happen to a person like this in the psychedelic journey is, you know, you'd start with intention setting.

37:33You'd say like, what am I here for? Right. And sometimes you don't even know why you're there, but let's say you say, I'm here to figure out why I'm so scared of dogs, right? In this journey that you'd have, you would then go back to that five-year-old experience that you had and you would actually see it, how it actually happened. Perhaps if you're lucky, right? If that comes to you, what you'd see is that was a Chihuahua. He was actually just licking me and I got so freaking scared and I didn't, it was no reason to get scared and look how cute it is. And wait a second, why am I so scared? Wait, I don't have to be scared of dogs at all.

38:05And you have this whole experience. And then, you know, as the medicine wears off, you come back and you're like, what the hell have I been doing for the last 40 years? What's wrong with me? Come here, little pup and you want to pet them and you're like, this is not scary. And they talk about people with addiction, you know, whether it's, you know, eating addiction, alcohol, whatever, as it's like a habit that they can't break. Every time I get depressed, I need to drink. Every time I get nervous, I need to eat. And when you go through, you know, a period of neuroplasticity where you're able to reset and reexamine these things in your life, you look at them from an outside perspective and you're like, dude, you're 300 pounds.

38:43Your doctor told you you had a 30 % chance of a cardiac event in the next year. Why are you eating? You need to go on a diet. You need to get healthy. You need to exercise. And that same person heard that same message a week ago, but it didn't resonate because they're so stuck in this loop we call life. And when you have an experience with psychedelic medicine, and there's other ways to achieve neuroplasticity too, by the way, not just through psychedelic medicine. You could get through breath work or meditation. Psychedelic medicine is just one way to get there. But when you actually reset and reconsider these aspects of yourself, you start to see it like an outsider.

39:20And in many cases, you're like, I have a lot of work to do. I have a lot of work to do. And Anastasia, I'll say that someone recently asked me, like, what was it like doing, you know, ketamine assisted therapy? And I said, you know what? It was like looking in the mirror and seeing all the warts you have, seeing all the areas that you can improve. and instead of looking in the mirror like a successful founder right you just sold your business you look in the mirror and you see this fucking so proud of yourself right and you like want to cheer yourself on and you know you have such a big ego when something like that happens you go on a psychedelic journey with good intentions and a pure mindset you are going to realize you ain't nothing you your ego dissolves you say in my case thank you to god for creating this incredible opportunity.

40:08He created the path. I just had to walk down it. And I have so much more work to do. I have so much more work to do on myself, for the community, for the world. And they talk about ego death during a psychedelic trip is like this incredible experience because as human beings, especially those of us who are fortunate enough to be financially successful, your ego could get very big if you're not careful. Not with psychedelics. you lose that ego real fast and you realize we have such little control. Our only control is how we act and just to do our best. So there's a lot of stories there, Anastasia, and I tried to just give you a little bit of a big picture view of my perspective on psychedelics.

40:54Ariane, you're doing the most amazing job because it's so entertaining. It's so compelling. It's brilliant. Thank you so much. It's exactly what I was hoping to get from you because I want you to show which tools worked for you and why and you are absolutely brilliant in doing just that so again going going back to the most practical question so you tried ketamine assisted therapy and that works for you and this is what you basically suggest that other people do obviously there are all these other psychedelics which i know people often have to travel somewhere outside of the U.S. to try. Do you mind talking about that?

41:35Did you experience that? What do you think about it comparing to ketamine? Yeah, so I have not experienced it. I am going to Costa Rica in a few months with my wife, and she doesn't know this yet, but I don't know. We'll see what happens when we're there. But look, I think that the way I understand those psychedelics and those experiences, is look, you have shamans, you have retreats, you have seven day retreats, you have, you know, with ketamine, by the way, in my case, with the sublingual modality under your tongue, it's about 45 minutes of this kind of disassociative state. When you do something like ayahuasca or some of these other LSD, these could be six hours, eight hours, 12 hours.

42:17It's a totally different journey. And I think that the way I understand it is that those journeys, you're going to get a way deeper level of intensity than what you get with something, especially sublingual ketamine is like 30 % bioavailability, meaning your body only is absorbing 30 % of the medication. So in my case, the intensity of my trip, while it felt incredible and out of body and amazing, it was a teeny fraction of what I would experience if I ingested a more serious psychedelic. And I think my journey will probably eventually lead me there, but it's scary Anastasia. Look, I also, I can tell you that there's no shortage of people out there who are touting these experiences.

43:00And you can go online and you can watch, you know, video reactions and them talking about it. But you know, I think the main key is that with psychedelic medicine for it to be effective in the context of mental health, as opposed to just a recreational experience, which I do not promote. That's not my thing. I really believe God put this medicine on earth to help us and to cure us. And I don't think we should be taking advantage of that by abusing this medicine. That being said, the best outcomes are going to be had when you optimize your set and your setting. And the way that works is, you know, the set is the mindset you have, and that comes with the right intentions.

43:40What am I here for? What am I trying to accomplish? and what am I trying to work on? You know, coming in with a mindset that is really pure and intentional around bettering yourself and then setting is the setting in which you, you know, have the medicine. If you're doing it in, you know, a nice serene environment with waterfalls and sun and, you know, you're going to probably have a much better experience than if you do it in a dungeon of snakes, you know? And so there are certain things that across the board apply to psychedelic medicine. And I think that a lot of people are starting to learn about that now because there's actually, I heard recently that the number one lead source for psychedelic medicine for clinics, right?

44:24Like ketamine is Netflix. And you're going to say, well, how is Netflix the number one lead source? And it's because they have a show on Netflix called Change Your Mind. And that's the show that I got introduced to a year ago. I'm going to give a shout out to a young lady I used to work with named Hannah Rose, who I sitting at lunch with. and she told me about this show and psychedelics. I was like, what the heck are you talking about? And I went home and I watched this and all of a sudden now I was down the rabbit hole and watching this show, you start to learn about the fact that, you know, in the 50s and 60s, psychedelic medicine was the cutting edge new drug.

45:02It was like, oh my God, the healing potential of this thing to treat mental health, mental illness and anxiety, depression, PTSD. Like it was, it was like, I'm trying to think it's like when Botox came out, it was like everyone went crazy. It was all over the papers. Everyone was wanted to try like LSD. And it was a wave that kind of spurred so much scientific research, clinical research. And the studies were so powerfully positive that we were about to avoid everything that ended up happening because what, what happened next was, you know, people basically abused the drug and started utilizing it in a way that was probably more recreational focused than let's call it mental health or, you know, wellness focused.

45:51And because of that, it created an environment where people didn't want to serve, you know, in the army. And all of a sudden the government had to come in and say, well, you know, we're basically creating a nation of very laid back stoners and we can't allow that to happen. And we're going to go to war on drugs. And so they went to war on drugs and they started basically taking this medicine that you could look and you can see the New York Times front page articles like life changing, you know, possibilities with this medicine all of a sudden got shut down almost overnight. All of the media, all of the, you know, the way that the government went to war on it, they basically created like the worst stigma in history about psychedelic medicine.

46:29They did it with marijuana too. They did it with kind of every drug that has a healing potential, but if abused, you know, it doesn't really get there. They, they really went to war on drugs. And when that happened, um, they shut down the whole industry. And that's when a lot of the medicine kind of went underground. And if you watch the show, what you'll see is that, you know, in the last 10 or 15 years, because everything's loosened up, you're seeing, you know, like cannabis getting, you know, commercialized and a lot of, you know, more open-mindedness than ever before to some of this stuff, because of that, it has spurred a revolution in psychedelic medicine.

47:04And when you watch the show, it blows your mind, to be honest with you. You can't believe that there's medicine out there that God put here, right? That can have this type of profound experience. I watched on the show and I read in recent months, people who had a stutter their whole life, a 65 year old woman stuttered her whole life. She couldn't break the stutter. One dose of, I believe it was ketamine, but it might've been a different second. One dose, no more stutter at 65 years old. Can you imagine breaking that loop of every time I say, ah, it goes, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. It's just natural. It's so strong.

47:39Break it down. No more, no more stutter. People with addiction, people with depression, all of these ailments were being like within, within days are being resolved for people. And so you watch that show, you start to think about where the world is today. You think about the fact that instead of ushering in a new era of mental clarity and health and, you know, one ism, right? Instead of that, we shut that down and we gave America opioids and we gave America drugs that we said, you have a chemical imbalance. Let's balance you out. And all of a sudden, what we've created is, I don't want to say it, Anastasia, but when When Elon Musk said we're becoming a nation of zombies, something like that, I kind of resonated.

48:27I'm like, I am kind of a zombie. I'm dull to my surroundings. And by the way, on a personal note, I am trying to get off of SSRIs. It's really hard. It's really hard once you're on them. And so you have this environment now where opioid crisis was devastating for our country. You have more people depressed and anxious. I think since COVID, it's tripled in terms of percentage of Americans who identify as any type of depression or anxiety. And you also have an entire generation of school children who, you know, God bless them, but let's see what happens. I think social media and the amount of screen time and the comparison that happens when you have such access to beautiful women and beautiful men and people more talented than you write in your face all the time.

49:15I think that could have a really negative effect. So I believe you're going to have a generation of kids that are going to have challenges. And then lastly, you layer on top what's going on in the world right now in Ukraine and Russia, Israel and Gaza. You have war. You have fighting. You have hate being spewed everywhere. That's another mental health crisis. So when you look at all of that and you say, okay, in the 60s, they had this medicine that was so promising. They shut it down. Now we're in 2024. we're in the worst mental health crisis of all time and it ain't getting any better right we didn't even talk about american politics and the divisiveness that that has has created when you look at all that and you say okay what do we say works what is america what does the world tell us well it's called talk therapy and ssris and you have a chemical imbalance well guess what we've done that for the last 30 years and look where we are it's not working okay on the other hand, you have psychedelic medicine that again, I say it over and over medicine put here by God, mushrooms were created by God.

50:21Why did he put them here? Everything is here for a reason. God was not trying to plant landmines for us. When he gave us this world, he was setting us up to be as great as we chose to be. He was setting us up where if we just followed our heart and did the best we could, the sky's the limit. So he put this medicine here and what they were proving with this medicine was that it can break your bad habits really freaking fast and it could relax you and it could take hate out of your vocabulary. And instead of giving the world this medicine, we shut it down. And so now we're in an environment where the studies are picking back up almost every single day.

50:59I mean, go set up a Google alert for ketamine. I dare you set up a Google alert for ketamine. And every single day, you're going to get 10 articles that talk about this incredible medicine that's changed lives. Okay. At the same time, you're going to get an article about Matthew Perry, who overdosed on ketamine and how it killed him because he took it irresponsibly. And God bless Matthew Perry. I'm a huge fan. But at the end of the day, these medicines do have risk when they're not used properly. And so while this medicine has profound clinical efficacy, it also has a stigma that, again, people in the generation above me will probably never get over.

51:36I don't expect my mom ever to try ketamine. Maybe my dad will see. but you have a stigma that is further amplified by the media who loves to cover a bad trip, right? But at the same time, you have clinical efficacy and scientific data that supports the fact that this medicine could be the cure we're all waiting for. Where is the bridge? How are we going to take this current state that is really not pretty? How are we going to build the bridge to this really beautiful state which is powered by natural plant medicines that can help everyone relax a little bit, reset, and rediscover the best versions of themselves.

52:19That's what this medicine does. None of us were born depressed or angry. You don't come out of your mother's womb crying because you're angry or depressed. You're crying because you missed what you left behind, right? And I want to just hit on that metaphor for one second because I often say, when there's a baby in the womb and my rabbi told this to me and he gets the credit. Imagine if you approach that baby. I have a colleague right now who's pregnant and I was talking to her about this yesterday. I said, if you go ask your baby right now, how you doing, baby? The baby's going to say, I'm doing great.

52:49What do you mean? Life is good. I get fed through this tube. I always am satiated. My mom takes care of me. I'm so cozy and cuddly and I never want to leave. And then you say to that baby, baby, you're living in a tiny little bubble right now. There's a whole world out there. baby's like you're crazy man there's nothing out there what do you mean i got everything here this is all i know and then they're born into this world and they realize that was a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of their life experience and what i believe anastasia is that we are living in that same womb right now it's called earth it's called a physical world and what psychedelic medicine did for me was it opened the door to this whole other world and if you're not someone who's ever experienced it, you can sit here and look at me and be like, oh man, Ari's lost it.

53:37He's a kook. He's talking about seeing God. And you know what? I'm okay if you say that. I've learned not to let what other people think about me define me or affect me. But at the same time, what I can tell you is if you think you know everything, if you think that you really know everything, this, you know, you're not like good luck to you, but that's not someone who I'm going going to talk about this. I'm not going to try and convince you. When you are someone who realizes we have so much to learn as a human species, as human beings, there's so much we don't know. And God put us here with a physical, like everything we experience is physical.

54:16Think about your five senses. They're all physical. There's no spiritual sense. You don't mean people talk about the third eye, but it's not commonly widely accepted, at least in Western and culture. And so we're told that every experience we have starts with a physical experience. And to me, that's living in the womb of a physical universe. There's a whole spiritual world out there. And once you utilize, you know, whatever catalyst it might be for you to get you there, breathwork, meditation, psychedelic medicine, you realize there's a whole world out there and now you can go exploring. And for me, man, oh man, I am so happy that I had the guts to do it because I don't think I ever, ever could have become the person that I'm trying to become now without that medicine.

55:00And I'll say this. I listened to a lot of talks from spiritual leaders. I have a lot of rabbis I listened to podcasts on. And one of the rabbis was talking about, um, his name's Y.Y. Jacobson. He talks about when you go to heaven, you know, a lot of people say that, you know, heaven or hell, I guess, but hopefully heaven, God's going to show you a video of your life and you're going to have to sit there right next to God watching that video. And, you know, you're going to have to sit there through all the uncomfortable moments, right? It ain't going to be fun. Let's be honest. Some parts will be, you'll be very proud of yourself when you gave charity and you help the old lady across the street.

55:36Other times you're going to say, uh, did I really do that? A lot of people know that story and they say, that's a really nice way to think about, you know, why you want to do the best down here. He said something different. He said, you're going to see two videos. Actually, the first video is going to be the life you lived, right? and you're going to have that experience. The next video is going to be the life that God saw you living, the potential you had, what you could have been, what you could have been had you made better choices, had you committed to change earlier in your life, had you done better, here's what you could have been.

56:09So here's the Ari who ends up making 20 million bucks and becomes the king of cool sculpting and is remembered for being this unbelievable sales guy who bought nice cars and a whole bunch of sneakers. That's one version. Yay, Ari, so proud of you. Here's this other version who ended up doing all that, but then decided to commit himself to something way bigger. And that was trying to be a part of the solution for mental illness in this country. And let's see where that Ari goes. Let's see how high fee can go. Let's see where I can land with that version. And for me, that was the emphasis of me shifting my whole vision and perspective on life to how can I be the best version of me?

56:54How can I live out my potential in the best way? Like, like what is my highest ceiling? There is no ceiling already higher and higher and push higher. And to me, that is what I'm so proud of now because it forces me to constantly demand more of myself. And I'm the same way with my kids. I don't talk to them about, did you get a 90 or an 80 on your test? I say, did you try your hardest? Could you have done better? And if they say no, I said, well, congratulations. Sounds like you did incredible. You did the best you can. And if they say, yeah, I could have done better. I say, all right, then there's opportunity to do better next time and focus more.

57:30It's not about the result. It's about the effort. And I think that's a big part of recognizing that we as physical beings have only limited ways and we can impact other people and other events around us. At the end of the day, we're at the mercy of God and chance and luck and all that stuff. So the real circle of influence we have is on ourselves. And all we can do is the best that we can do and surround yourself with people who are trying to do the best that they can do. And together, maybe you can be a force multiplier of good in the universe. Brilliant. So inspiring. So Ari, this takes me to my next topic I wanted to discuss with you is how your thinking changed over time about success.

58:17And you kind of answered that question already. But if you don't mind, I'd like you to kind of summarize it and tell me what success is for you today. Yeah, I think that, you know, how it's changed over time is kind of like, again, thinking about that first and second mountain analogy, which is, you know, success for most people starts and ends with, can I take care of my family? Now, what does that mean? Well, it means something different for everyone. You know, maybe if you're living in a place where just putting a hut over your family, that's taking care of them, then good, good for you. Check, you're doing your part.

58:52if you're living in a place like where I'm living there's a lot more to it you have to make a lot of money you have to provide in a lot of different ways and that is you know as a father I think a lot of people would define success as am I taking care of my family am I setting my children up to live a better life than I did am I treating my wife you know the best that I can so that I can be a role model for my own children that's what success looks like for many many people and I'm no exception. I had to take care of my family. I had to set my children up to be successful. And again, I'll say this.

59:27Not every like bad, bad stuff happens. People have bad luck. So just because I did it doesn't mean I'm better than the guy who couldn't do it. He might have just, I always joke, you know, not joke, but I say during the pandemic, we happened to be in the body sculpting business, which everyone wanted. We could have been a restaurant that went under. I have friends who run restaurants. So a lot of it is luck. But if you're lucky enough to be able to create a financial state of stability and a foundation of, you know, comfort for your family, that generally is the first layer of what I would call success.

59:59In my case, having a liquidity event at such a young age, which to me was the ultimate a differentiator. I said, what's the difference between me and a guy who sells his derm practice? Well, normally that guy is 75 years old and he's been practicing for 30 years. I started this business like, I don't know, 36 months ago. Like how the heck is this happening so fast? And I'm so young. And so for me, success now changed from providing food on the table for my family to that question of what am I going to see when I get upstairs? How close can I get to that video on the right, right? How close can I get to living out my potential?

1:00:35And that's what success looks like, Anastasia. It's doing your best every day and feeling like you're making progress and you're just trying harder and harder and harder, never being satisfied, never giving up, honestly, never getting frustrated either because frustration doesn't help. Just keep trying your hardest. If I try my hardest every day to be the best version of me, I feel like on my deathbed, I'll say I feel pretty successful. It's not about the money. It's not about the number of sneakers or cars. It's about feeling like you did the best you could with your opportunity. And a big part of that is obviously the people around you knowing how much you love them, how much you care about them, how much you appreciate them.

1:01:22I would say psychedelic medicine for me and not to go back to psychedelics, But what it really brought out of me was the best version of me as a father, a husband, a son, a brother, a friend. That's ultimately how you want to be measured is what would other people say about you? And I think when I think about success, it's are what they say are what these people would say about me matched up with what I think represents the best of my the best me. If those match up, I think you're pretty successful. And again, always striving for more and more and more, never being satisfied because as they, as you know, Jim Collins says, good as the enemy of great, like never stop striving for even better.

1:02:04And a little hint, I'll drop this year for the first time publicly. My new business is going to be launching a consumer brand that's going to be attracting people to learn more about psychedelic medicine. And the brand we're trademarking is called betterness. and the concept of betterness is we're not coming at people from a deficiency and saying you're depressed you're anxious let us fix you and let us heal you we're coming and saying you might be great the way you are but can you be better is there a level above where you are now that we can aspire to and i think that's putting people in a position to you know strive for more and aspire to more as opposed to saying i'm sick you need to fix me it's i'm trying my best i want to try more.

1:02:48I want to get higher. If this medicine can help me get there, let's see what it's all about. And so I think betterness is a great way to kind of define success. It's are you always striving for betterness? And if you are, and it's an honest effort, then I think you should be very, very proud of yourself. So Ari, whatever happened to all those drugs you took after you did therapy? Great question. So the ones that I'm still kind of on on a regular basis, so there's a couple of things. And maybe you can look at this as a little bit of a shout out to a few different brands that I believe have the potential to really, really help people feel a little better in both physical and mental sense.

1:03:25So a couple of things, thesis still on every single day. It looks something like this. It's a, what does this say? Logic, right? This is my favorite one. Cause for me, I was never this, you know, the biggest book smart guy. I was street smarts. My sister always had that, you know, she was more of an academic intellectual. So I take logic to get a little bit smarter and I feel like it helps. I take Magic Mind every morning. That's the green drink. The big one, the big one, Anastasia, is a company called 10X Health, which you probably have heard of Grant Cardone and Gary Brecca. Have you heard of 10X?

1:04:01I heard of it. 10X was life-changing for me. It was, I, ever since COVID, I had major kind of gut issues. 10X basically sends you a swab at home, they swab and they look at your DNA, what's called a methylation cycle, which is basically your ability to take what you put in your body and convert it into usable energy for your body. And if you can't make that conversion efficiently, then you have a deficiency and the deficiency is genetic. So what this test shows is what specific, let's say vitamins your body's missing to have a perfect methylation cycle. And then it supplements you with vitamins to create and fill those gaps.

1:04:41And for me, everything about my life got better when I got on these vitamins because everything about that methylation cycle translates to your energy, your mental state, how your stomach feels. I mean, everything is better when you give your body the right resources. And so I'm on 10X Health. And then there's a few other remedies I found. There's a little company called 1906, which, you know, is a, you know, company that offers kind of daily micro dosing of a level of cannabis, THC or CBD. And again, I don't do that every day, but it's definitely something that helps kind of set my day off in a very relaxed state.

1:05:27So it's really about finding what works for you. I would say for me, there was very little that I discovered. I'd say Adderall is probably the biggest example of something I discovered that I really wish I had never discovered because it really was not the right solution. The SSRIs I'm on, I'm still taking every day, but I literally just had a conversation with my doctor this week about how do I get off of them? Because what I'm really trying to, you know, get to Anastasia is the most natural version of me. I want my wife to be with the most natural version of me. I want my community to experience the most natural version of me because God is perfect and God creates perfection.

1:06:09God doesn't make mistakes. And so the way we all are is perfect by nature of the fact that God created us. And you might say, well, then why are you taking all these supplements? Well, you know what? Sometimes your body needs a little bit of plugs. And that's, again, that's about doing your part. God gave you access to some of this stuff. If he gave you access to it, there's a reason. And for me, it's about trying to kind of match that level of perfection with the person I portray in the world and feeling that way as well. And so for me, I have found a good kind of remedy, but it's going to change over time.

1:06:43I don't think anything's permanent. So ADHD that you mentioned that you have, adult ADHD, seems to be the most common thing I hear from people in the Exeter Founder community. Generally, entrepreneurs, I think there are lots and lots of people with ADHD. but I started believing that it's truly a superpower when I realized that those who exited seem to have it even more often. But I'm curious how psychedelics affected that, because most of us who have ADHD or think they have ADHD don't actually want to be, you know, numbed into exactly as you described, into zombies. What are you doing about your ADHD?

1:07:25Good question. So I think, you know, you have to also kind of think about the generation, you know, today versus the generation that, you know, I'm 43 years old, like my generation growing up in the 80s and 90s. Nobody, you know, ADHD, ADD, learning, you know, just, you know, learning disabilities, this stuff was not diagnosed the way it is today. you know nowadays it's very you know very quick people are very quick to give a diagnosis and the truth is that they could say almost every kid has a level of ADHD or ADD it's like it's hard to pay attention for me I always knew well let me actually take you back a step Anastasia growing up in an era where mental illness and learning disabilities were not as front and center as they are today meant growing up in an era where the only way you were judged was on your results, on your grades in school.

1:08:18And for someone like me, I never got great grades in school. And so what does that do to a young kid? It says to you, there's something wrong with you, Ari. There must be something wrong with your brain. Maybe you're stupid. Why can't you remember? I remember at one point my parents came home, and this is not a knock on them because this was the era, but they had shared with me that they went to one of my parent teacher nights and the teacher said to them, I just don't understand. And I don't know if they shared this with me directly, or they said it to someone and I heard it, but they, the teacher basically said, like, I looked right at Ari.

1:08:52I said something like, look, Ari, you know, whatever it is. 10 plus 10 is 20. What's 10 plus 10. I was like, looked at him like, huh, huh, huh. And what, what was not, you know, recognized was that there's auditory processing issues. And you see those all the time now. But back then, if you weren't able to diagnose that, you're like, this kid has real, like, I don't understand what's wrong with this kid. And you get frustrated as a parent, as a teacher. And so that set me off for a lifelong belief that I was stupid. And when you talk about my founder story with Sperling, I never thought I was good enough to lead a company because I always had this chip on my shoulder of like, you're not smart enough.

1:09:35You've never gotten straight A's. You were happy if you got an 80. And by never having a proper diagnosis and someone say to you, yeah, Ari, like it's normal what you're going through. It's not, you know, you know, half the people in your class are dealing with the same stuff. That would have been a lot of, a lot easier to hear back then. Nowadays though, getting that diagnosis, recognizing that there's a medication to help, you know, you see that there are, you know so many people out there and you said it I mean it's interesting my dad oh and I'm sure you've heard this before right you go in high school A's B's and C's you get out of high school you write the C's are working for the B's or excuse me the A's are working for the B's at company companies owned by the C's yeah right and it's like this whole inverse effect of everything we thought mattered in school in terms of you know how you got good grades and that was going to lead to success.

1:10:31So many people are the polar opposite. And that's not to say one way is right or one way is wrong. It's like there's so many different paths. And I think that's what was missing when I was growing up. And so recognizing today that there are so many paths to success, I do think that is one thing that we've gotten better about is recognizing mental illness, recognizing learning disabilities. And ADHD is definitely something that people should not feel embarrassed by or that it's holding them back. It's something that there are a lot of ways to kind of combat that. And, you know, there's ways to battle through it that, you know, you can come out the other side in a way better spot.

1:11:10Did I answer your question there? I'm not sure if I fully answered your question. You answered my next 10 questions already. So I'm very happy. Can we talk about how you choose the people you spend time with? That's a great, great. I'm glad you asked that. And that's something that's definitely changed over the last six months, um, you know, going back to psychedelics. And again, I want to be clear, like my whole life is not about psychedelics. It just was this massive pivotal moment where everything, my perspective shifted so much in a more positive way, I believe. And that also shifts the way you look at the people you surround yourself with.

1:11:51And I, of all people to kind of get inspirational wisdom from Snoop Dogg, posted something on Instagram a few weeks ago that really resonated with me. They were showing an interview he did, and he was talking about how, you know, when he grew up, he wasn't anyone famous. He started from the bottom, right? And he talks about his rise to fame, and he talks about how when you get to a certain point, you are getting somewhere that is an elevated sense of awareness and being and wellness. You're trying to be a better version of yourself. And it's not about looking down on those people. It's about saying, are you coming with me or are you just going to stay down there?

1:12:32It's not about I'm better than you. It's about I want to be around people who inspire me. I want to be around people who imbue positive energy into a situation. and that's, those are the decisions I started to make post exit and in the last few years is who am I surrounding myself with? An analogy I hear a lot is, you know, you could go hang out, you know, with the garbage men and at the end of the day, whether or not you're a garbage man, if you're hanging out with them all day, you know what you're going to smell like, right? Kind of like walking into a perfume store, right? Even if you're not buying perfume, you're going to walk in out smelling like it.

1:13:10The people you surround yourself with becomes the energy you give off. And so for me, I think that one of the things I really looked at was who in my life is bringing me joy? Who in my life is making me feel better? Who in my life is bringing me down? Who in my life creates a negative energy and vibe every time I'm with them? And you start to say, why the heck would I ever spend time with someone who's bringing me down? And all of this, Anastasia, is you pull back to what's my mission? What's my goal? What's my purpose? I believe my purpose is to ultimately to glorify God and be a light amongst the nations and be the best version of me.

1:13:54And anything that is diverting me from that course is something that's hurting me. And so when I get pulled into a conversation that's all negative, it's gossip, it's talking about stuff that I don't really believe, you know, is the right. Let's just leave it at that. There's a lot of divide in this country right now. There's a lot of hate. There's a lot of people who are very angry. That doesn't serve me very well. When I'm around angry people, I feel like shit. I don't want to be around angry people. I want to be around people who are trying to be the best them, who are committed to being a part of the solution, because I firmly believe if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.

1:14:32There is no middle ground. We have a lot of problems right now. I'm a solution seeker. And if you want to be a solution seeker and you want to be someone who is committed to being a part of the answer, jump on board. Let's hang. That's what I'm finding. It's not about age. I hang out with guys who are 18 and 20, and I hang out with men who are in their 70s. And again, women, men, all of everything in between, and I find inspiration from every one of them. You and I met through a peer group, I think Tiger 21, where we talk about, you know, you know, people who have had, you know, experiences that are similar, how they can share those experiences together to better each other.

1:15:11Like to me, those are the type of people you want to hang out with, you want to hang out with people who are going to bring out the best in you. And for me, that's how my social circles change. I really started to focus on people who I enjoyed being around, who made me feel better. And I know that sounds so simple and so obvious, but I guarantee you, if your audience really asks themselves seriously, think about the people you spend 95 % of the time with. And then of those people, are there certain people who really don't contribute towards your ultimate purpose? Don't contribute towards you being the best you.

1:15:45Are there people in that circle that fit that? And I guarantee you, you'll find that they're, you know, very likely are. and those are the times you need to make a decision is do I really want to continue to associate with someone who's pulling me off course constantly? And the hardest part, Anastasia, is if that's a family member or a close loved one. And I'm not saying anything that you should, everyone should try and work out their issues, but it's easier said than done. And at the end of the day, if someone's constantly holding on to you, how can you ever really fly? So I'm very happy you started talking about a sense of purpose and meaning, and you're very comfortable and passionate talking about that.

1:16:28What is a perfectly fulfilling life for you? What does it look like? Idealistically? I think a perfectly fulfilling life is a life where, I mean, kind of talked about it earlier, where not only you're doing your best, but you are a positive reflection on those around you. I have a great life coach right now. And again, it's like champagne problems, life coach. But it's, you know, he talks to me a lot about the ultimate sense of meaning for someone like me is not about me. It's about everyone around me. It's how I can make, how I can use the God-given skills I have to inspire others. And the ideal state for me is being in an environment where we're all lifting each other up and people remember you for how you made them feel.

1:17:18And they feel uplifted. I was very fortunate that God gave me the gift of eloquent speech. And every, you know, on the Jewish holiday season, when you thank God for all the incredible blessings, I'm very, when it comes to that one, eloquent speech, I'm like really focused. And I'm like, I'm the luckiest guy that God gave me. And some people, they're really good at freaking football and they go make millions and they give a ton to charity and like, great, God gave you that skill. Other people are really good at math and they go solve hard equations. Good for you. God gave me eloquent speech. I didn't give myself this.

1:17:49My grandfather passed it down to my dad who passed it down to me, but ultimately it's from God. And when you're able to be grateful for what you have and not focused on what you don't have, that's when you start to lean into your best you and you start to be a giver instead of a taker. And so for me, success is about what you can bring to the equation, not what you can get out of it. So if you had to rate your own level of fulfillment from zero to 10, what would it be now? That's a really good question. I was asked that question recently by my coach and he, I'll be honest with you, and it's embarrassing to say, I said 10.

1:18:28And he's like, Ari, if you think you're at a 10, you have so much to learn. And as soon as I said it, I was like, how did I make such a stupid mistake? Like, you're so right. What the heck? If I ever think I'm done learning, I'm screwed. So it was like eye opening because here I am thinking, I feel great. I feel like the best version of me. I'm like, I get it now. And then as soon as the words came out of my mouth, he's, I could see him. He's like, ah, dude, we have so much work to do. So when I talk about spiritual fulfillment or kind of meaningful, purposeful fulfillment, I think it's, you know, it's just the bars constantly raising.

1:19:06So, um, on the one hand, I feel great that I truly feel connected with my purpose and my meaning and kind of my life and my life path and the choices I've made. Like I feel great about everything that has happened thus far. And by the way, it's not because of the financial success. And I have this conversation with myself often. It's because I've learned to accept that everything from God is a gift and our job is to receive it. And as soon as he's done giving us that gift and he takes it away, our job is to receive that as well. And now it's a challenge. you need to face. And it's easier when the money's, you know, large, because that just makes as a physical person, it's easier.

1:19:48But ultimately, you know, our job is to just do the best we can in our situation. And so I think for me, thinking about, you know, the best version of me and what that looks like, it's just about finding that lane and leaning into it and inspiring others. And I forget what was the what was the core question you asked? How you rate your fulfillment from zero to 10? How I rate my fulfillment. Yeah, I think it's a moving target. I think it's a moving target, Anastasia. And the moment you start thinking you're there, that's when you know you have more work to do. So it's a moving target. And I'm just trying to get as close as possible to it.

1:20:27Fantastic. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. Great answer. Thank you so much. So talking about wealth, what does it mean for you today comparing to what you thought it would mean for you before you actually acquired it? Another good question. I think that the most, the easiest answer there is that what most people believe, right? Which is that if I only had money, I'd be happy, right? If I just, just give me a million bucks, put it in my bank account and it will all be good. And all of my pain will go away and all of my anxiety will go away and all of my challenges and troubles. And I'm like, just put a million bucks in my bank account.

1:21:03I bet you 98 % of the country would say, yes, please. And what you realize when you actually have money is, I mean, Puff Daddy said it in the 80s or the 90s, more money, more problems. Again, champagne problems, yes, Taylor Swift. But at the same time, you realize that money solves one of your problems. It solves your need for financial security. but it doesn't solve anything else. And in a lot of ways, it actually creates problems because there's more pressure on you. When you have money, people wanna come to you for charitable causes. People wanna know how you're gonna give back, how you're gonna make impact with that money.

1:21:47It's pressures and it's things you've never thought about before. So I think the difference between having money and not having money is when you have money, the best part about it is that you're not a slave to chasing money. Now, some people are, by the way. I've met people who have a ton more money than me and they can't stop. And to be honest with you, I kind of feel bad for them. I was at a meeting a few weeks ago and someone shared it was, you know, a meeting where someone was sharing a little bit about their wealth and their situation and they have just more money than you could ever imagine.

1:22:23But they also said that their wife and their kids have been like begging them to retire. the 65 year old guy begging them him to retire and he can't do it he just can't stop and he's just non-stop and he doesn't need any more money but you know he they went around the room and everyone was kind of giving him this feedback like he said am I doing a good job like am I living my best life and everyone around the room is like yeah you are good for you keep working it makes you happy and they got to me and I just met the guy and I look at him and I say honestly like forgive me but I think if you have to ask the question are you living your best life you're not because if you were you would know it and what you sound like as you kind of have this conversation it sounds like someone who's doesn't really know what their meaning or their purpose is is you know not fully convinced that they've made the best life choices because all of a sudden money is become everything and you're coming from a real place of insecurity because you're asking to yourself like, am I living my best life?

1:23:22What should I be doing? You're a 65 year old guy who's more successful than most people will ever be in a financial sense. Yet you don't seem very happy. You don't seem very fulfilled. And I think that when you think about money and again, I think when you think about what is going to ultimately bring you satisfaction, money's part of it, but there's so much more that you need. And if you never get the money, you can absolutely be happy and fulfilled and satisfied. Money just makes it a little bit easier. I'm not going to lie. Okay. So that's what it is for you. It makes things easier to achieve things.

1:24:00It makes it easier to focus on being the best you. In my case, what money allowed me to do was it allowed me to go get a trainer at the gym a few days a week so I could get into good shape. It allowed me to play with a company like 10X Health where I could spend a little money to get my DNA swabbed and get these vitamins. It opens the door to certain opportunities that you wouldn't have. But at the end of the day, it's your choice what you're going to do. You could go out and buy cars and football teams if you want, or you can go out and try and invest in you so that you ultimately are making an investment in those around you because by being the better you, you are elevating those around you.

1:24:37And if that's your goal, then money's a great means to get there. But money is here today and gone tomorrow. And that's another thing you very quickly learn to accept. When you get as lucky as I did and you feel that God was really just showering blessing after blessing upon you, you also recognize that God could just as quickly take it away. And so you learn that money is not the foundation of your happiness or satisfaction. It's a driving force of it. It's one of the driving forces of it because without it, you have to shift your entire focus and priorities to making money. But at the same time, it's not that it's not at the root of any real happiness or satisfaction or purpose of life, in my opinion.

1:25:21A great quote I heard was from what was the guy who founded Walmart? Walton, I think might have been his name, founded the biggest company in the world. To this day, you know, Walmart is one of the largest revenue generators of any business in the world. And he spent his whole life building that company and on his deathbed, the New York Times reported his obituary, his last words were, I screwed up. This guy was a, I think he had like$50 billion. By any measure of success, this guy was like a legend. And his last dying words were, I screwed up. And it was in reference to the fact that he spent way more time focused on making money than with his family.

1:26:03And that is a huge missed opportunity. and it just reminds you constantly, think about what's gonna be important to you when you know you have one hour left to live. Is it the amount of likes you got on Instagram? Is it the fact that you're the coolest dude driving the coolest car? Or is it the fact that I did everything I could to spend time with my loved ones, to share with them how much I appreciate them, to share with them how much I love them, to imbue them with confidence, to be the best. I'm like, if you look back and you're able to feel like you spent your time wisely here, then you're doing the right stuff.

1:26:39And that to me is the ultimate, you know, happiness you could have on this earth is knowing that you have a limited time here, but you're doing the best you can to make the most out of it. What keeps you up at night? What keeps me up at night? Well, right now starting a business, it's hard. And it's funny because you think that when you reach a certain level of financial success, you're not going to have concerns about money, but you get more concerns about money. I hate to break it to you. You know, I've been bootstrapping this business now for almost nine months. I joke that it's kind of the closest I've ever come to having a baby because from where it started as a ketamine clinic concept to where it's going to be, which is ultimately an educational platform to inform people about the power and healing capabilities of psychedelic medicine.

1:27:22It's been an evolution of nine months. And I think at night, I'm thinking about the business. I'm thinking about my baby. I'm thinking about how am I going to do this right? you know, raising money right now, you know, you're going through a lot of kind of, uh, you know, whole new challenges. I never raised money before. Um, I was never the founder of a company before, you know, even though this is the, you know, the, the founder's paradox, it was more so I joined my wife after she had founded. So for me, like I am doing something I've never really done before. So that stuff kind of keeps me up at night.

1:27:55Um, because it's what I'm thinking about the next day. What is always in the back of my mind, to be totally honest with you, Anastasia, is when I think about what's going on in the world right now, and I think about the wars that are happening across the globe, I think about what's happening in Israel, and I am so heartbroken over the loss of lives on both sides of this equation from the people who were really innocent bystanders of this war. And my heart goes out to everyone who's been affected on both sides. At the same time, we have, I think, about 150 hostages right now still being held hostage October 7th.

1:28:36And for me, since October 7th, there's been a black cloud over everything in my life. So you talk about going to sleep, you talk about waking up, nothing is great right now when I know that 150 of my brothers and sisters are being held hostage with no end in sight. And they haven't seen their loved ones, you know, in six months. And how could I ever fully be relaxed and happy knowing that that's going on? And you could say the same thing in Ukraine and Russia. When there's not peace in the world, you want that. You want that for the world. And you realize your individual peace and success is so limited.

1:29:14And really, it's like a quick hit of dopamine versus the feeling you get when you can look across the world and see people doing kind deeds for each other. That level of elevation is a whole nother level. And so seeing what's going on in the world right now really has me down. But again, I focus on what I can do and, you know, where I can be a part of the solution in that equation. What gives you joy? What gives me joy is, you know, time with loved ones, time with, you know, family members, especially. I just had a weekend this past weekend where my whole family was together, my brother and his wife welcomed in a baby boy.

1:29:54And we spent the whole weekend together with the family, the grandparents, the grandkids, the aunts, the uncles. I mean, what better joy than spending time with loved ones? It's to me, like the ultimate joy is time with others and time with loved ones. And look, everyone knows you're going to die. Eventually everyone, you know, is going to die. All your loved ones, like these are depressing thoughts. Let's not go there. But let's also realize that if we know that, what are we doing right now to make the most of the time we do have? And to me, time with family is the ultimate, ultimate, ultimate currency.

1:30:31And so that's joy with my kids, with my wife, with my family. Um, I, I, I would say probably the purest joy I have is when I am either praising God or teaching my kids about spirituality or their connection with God. Because for me, that level of joy is such a higher level. And hearing my kids talk about their belief in God and their belief that there is a divine presence that is there for us at all times. I talked with my daughter and my little seven-year-old. She says, I say to her, why do you never have to be afraid? And she goes, you never have to be afraid because God's always with you, even in the dark, even when you're alone, God's always with you.

1:31:19And I think those moments for me of realizing that I am passing the torch down to the next generation is something that I hold so dearly because at the end of the day, that's all we have is our traditions, our beliefs. And in my case, my religion. And I think that those are the happiest moments of my life. But when I'm able to glorify God by sharing his stories with my children and hoping to imbue in them the same love and connection with God that I have. There's nothing that brings me more joy than that. And every weekend we celebrate Sabbath, which is a 24-hour period of just commitment to God.

1:31:56We stop working. We turn our phones off. We pray. We eat together. We socialize with our community. And to me, that's elevating God in our world. And that's what gives me the ultimate joy. What a beautiful answer. Thank you so much, Shari. You gave me so much wisdom and food for thought in this interview. I'm really, really grateful. I wonder if we could summarize and if you can think about the biggest, the most important lessons you've learned since you sold your company during that journey when you already had both time and money and the luxury to think about yourself and the world. I would say that the biggest lesson I've learned since selling my company, I think is twofold.

1:32:43I think number one, you need to recognize that when you're at that top of the first mountain and you're looking back at everything you did, again, some people just choose to make that their scenery for the rest of their life. That's fine. But if you really want to climb the second mountain, if one mountain is not enough, then the question is, are you in the best position to, to climb that mountain? And when I say that, so physically, right? Like you think about climbing, you need to be in shape, but to build a business or to continue on to further success in your life, you need to be, you know, in shape physically, mentally, spiritually, et cetera.

1:33:20And to me, that starts with working on yourself. And so one of the biggest lessons I learned since selling my company was you can't be the best father, son, husband that until you're the best you. And so number one, you need to invest in yourself, whether that's going to the gym and eating right. And you know, if you know that you need to solve your problems before you can solve the world's problems. And so recognition of that was a big kind of learning point for me since selling the company. And I think the second one is recognition that while your first exit may have been about, you know, putting enough money in your bank account that, you know, you can really be a source of comfort for your family and, you know, hopefully generations to come.

1:34:03The second, you know, focus is not in my case, right? It wasn't about how do I make more money? It was how do I make a difference? How do I leave behind a legacy that I'm proud of? And that was a major, you know, turning point for me when I realized, hey, I have this, God has given me the incredible opportunity to do something way more meaningful than anything I've ever done before. And it's my choice whether I want to lean into that. And that was the choice I made standing at the top of the mountain saying, I could just enjoy the fruits of my labor or I can. And again, what psychedelics or not, you look out and you say, there's more to do.

1:34:42And when there's more to do, you got to get to it. And so as a, as a exited founder at 40 years old, there was never a question in my mind. My life is not playing pickleball and driving around with the top down in the sun. Like that's fun. That's not a life. A life is about building. It's about purpose. It's about contribution. You talk about problems and solutions. I ain't solving anyone's problems playing pickleball where I can solve problems is investing myself, my resources, my energy into problems that I see. And the problem I see is a lot of people are really not the best versions of themselves.

1:35:19They're not living perfect 10 lives. And that's a problem I'm trying to solve. And so leaning into that is something that I think I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to do. And for people who are, find themselves in a similar situation. I mean, I listened to all your podcasts, founders, exited founders, they go through the stages of what's next. And I sat in a room with a bunch of exited founders a few months ago, New York city. And literally everyone is like, what do I do next? And I felt so fortunate that I found my calling and I was like, damn, I'm really lucky. But I think for an exited founder, it's recognizing first, you need to invest in yourself before you can invest in humanity, so to speak.

1:35:57And number two, what are you going to lean into? And if you're going to really lean into it, you know, is it something that is about ultimately making more money? Or is it something that, you know, you feel like is going to be a value add to the world? And for me, there was never a question. It was never going to Like nothing I'm doing right now is about making money. The money will come. I know that my investors know that, but it's about doing something I could be really proud of. And that was a beautiful opportunity that, you know, selling your company really, it became front and center. I had a path forward that could solve for both financial and for purpose and meaning.

1:36:36And I'm really blessed and I'm really grateful for this opportunity. And Anastasia, I want to say to you, thank you for this opportunity to speak with you. I think what you're doing for entrepreneurs across the country is amazing. Every time I go on LinkedIn and I see one of your videos pop up or I read your summaries, it's inspiring. I think it's also creating an element of relatability, right? An inspiration for young entrepreneurs who look and say, yeah, we all know Mark Zuckerberg's story or Elon Musk's story, but what about the hundreds and thousands of other entrepreneurs who didn't sell their company for 100 million?

1:37:11Maybe they sold it for 1 million. Maybe they sold it for stock options. Maybe they did it at 22 years old or 42. Everyone is striving for that level of kind of peak perfection in the financial slash business world and seeing other people's journeys. And by the way, almost every story that's been told on your podcast has similar elements, which is there's a lot of luck involved. This ain't a bunch of people who were set up from success for the beginning and didn't have to do much. They had to work their ass off and they got a little bit lucky. And I think that for other people to hear those stories, they realize just do the best you can and hopefully good things will happen.

1:37:49And so the platform that you give to entrepreneurs to share their stories, not only does it inspire future founder and future people who will have exits, but for people like me who have had that exit, being exposed to others who have and the challenges they've encountered and the pits and valleys of that life, recognizing I'm not alone. it's been really, really helpful to hear other stories and how they've overcome the same challenges that I faced. And so I want to thank you on behalf of entrepreneurs really around the country, Anastasia, for really what feels like devoting your life right now towards sharing our stories.

1:38:24And you're so active on the WhatsApp chat. You're so active on the community boards. And you reached right out to me when I got in. And I was like, oh my God, I feel like a celebrity. Anastasia wants to welcome me and say how impressed she is of me. I'm like, holy crap, like you make me feel so good. So thank you for what you're doing for entrepreneurs. Thank you so much, Ari. Not an easy lifestyle, but it's wonderful to have people like you to glorify us a little bit. Once in a while, it's nice to have conversations like this. Ari, thank you so much. I have goosebumps now. You really touched my heart.

1:38:54Thank you so much. You know how much it means to me. Thank you. It was an amazing conversation. I very much enjoyed it. Thank you very much. And I hope your listeners enjoyed it too. and I hope to see you soon. It sounds like we'll be hanging out in a few weeks, maybe in Vegas. I think so too. I'll see you in Vegas.