Roy Rubin. Magento’s Exited Founder: Globetrotting and the Search for Purpose

33:51So the fact that we could wake up in the morning, have these shared experiences,

33:58sit down with the kids, have really, really quality time with them is something that we appreciated. And we did things that were outside the comfort zone. We went hiking and camping and and then sleep in luxury accommodations for most, almost every night. We slept in very modest accommodations. We felt like this was a journey for us. And I think the kids really took a lot away from it to, you know, to this day, I've got a 17 year old now, high school senior, you know, he'll tell you like, that was one of the greatest things, you know, in his life. And it's now 10 years later. So I, I, I highly encourage him and a lot of founders that I speak with that, that exited.

34:43I'm a big believer in this. Get outside. Get outside of your comfort zone. Experience this time with the family. And you have to remember, I left eBay with no hobbies, no passions, and largely no friends. And I said, and a very limited knowledge of my family and i said okay well what you know this is no way to live yeah um and and i was on a mission of self-discovery starting with the family which i think is the most important thing um and i figured if if if i want to do this the right way i have to take us all out of our day-to-day um and you know and get you know and get to be together and you know share experience To this day, by the way, we are avid travelers and we try to get out as much as we can.

35:38We go off the beaten path as much as we can. And, you know, my kids have been fortunate to, I mean, hopefully, right, to have a father that isn't quite the norm when it comes to this and looks for crazy adventures to put us all through. Luckily, I have a willing partner in my wife here that's willing to go on these crazy experiences. But, you know, I love being uncomfortable. And I think that the kids have grown largely to appreciate that. And I have to tell you, my son, for the first time last year, took friends to go camping on his own. He drives, of course, now. And he took our truck and he loaded the back with firewood and tents and everything and grabbed a few friends.

36:22And they went and drove, you know, a couple of hours north of us here in L.A. And for me as a father to see my son go camping on his own without being prompted by me was like. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. My oldest just turned 18. So I can absolutely relate to that. When you see them doing these things all by themselves, it's just so exciting. So wonderful. So rewarding. For sure. Roy, I'm so happy that you told us this story because I come across lots of people who post exit would love to do that. But then they say, oh, but I can't possibly take my kids out of school because that will destroy them. and I would love to travel, but we'll sit here until they grow up and we're not going anywhere.

37:07And then we'll travel. What would you tell these people? Like why, what are the most compelling reasons to try to do what you did? So let me tell you a little something that I use with my, a little trick that I use with my wife. Because my wife also had, I think, a lot of reservations and concerns about this. I said, listen, let's leave. and whenever you're unhappy or the kids are unhappy or we feel like we've gotten to a conclusion within 24 hours we'll be at home and i think when you reframe the question of we're not going for 14 months actually we didn't even know how long we're going for right but when you reframe the question and you say listen we're going to go until we feel like we've exhausted this until this becomes a burden, like you said earlier, right?

37:56And, and you know what, after some time to settle, a few weeks, it became our life. You know, I could see a world that we would never come back. I mean, obviously we did because we wanted the kids to go to school and I sort of have that, you know, component, but it becomes a routine. And, and, and just reframing the question really helped us both, I think, largely for her in the beginning, but I think for me also to say, listen, if we don't, if we're unhappy here, we simply walk away and we get to do that and be 24 hours away from home. You know, we were in Sri Lanka. I'll tell you a quick story.

38:33We were in Sri Lanka. Um, and we were there for three weeks by that point. And, and, and we just got sick of it. So everything was hard for some reason, you know, and we can know the kids and it was just hard. Very, very busy country. There's a lot going on. And it wasn't as easy as other countries we had been traveling to. And my wife and I got frustrated. And we literally just pulled up a flight booking app. And we said, let's go right now. Let's just leave. And we could have stayed for another two weeks. I mean, we didn't really have a plan. We just said, it's time to go so you know 12 hours later we landed in the south of spain yeah right having that um you know i think um flexibility um and and understanding that you're not married to any decision you know um and you can you know reverse course or or pivot at any point in time much like a business you can pivot and you can you can go and and and explore you know other things we landed in the south of spain and it was beautiful and you know europe is so so easy so it was familiar because you know we live here in in um in the western hemisphere right all this stuff really um matters and and and it kind of got us reboot and and to look at things much much differently.

40:07Yeah, that's great. I think so many of us have this idea of freedom as a dream when we build our businesses and it pushes us through the most difficult challenges, but then we get to an exit and so many people don't actually experience that freedom. And I think when you let go, you go with the flow, you travel, this is when you understand what freedom actually feels like that you can be in sri lanka buy a ticket fly to spain the world is small the world is actually welcoming and all of these things are possible and this is exactly the essence of freedom and if we don't experience it and we immediately move into yet another business what's the point yeah i mean i would even take it a step further and i would say the exit, if I, if I look and I say, what did it actually give me?

41:01I think it's freedom. A hundred percent, right? It gave me the freedom to make any decision that I want to make, right? Without having some, um, some other, um, responsibility sit on top of it, you know, that takes me on a different path. Uh, got me freedom. It got me time, right time to sort of pursue whatever it is i want to pursue um you know beyond the monetary stuff which which is like you know you look at it for a second it's great but then you move on okay well what do i do with this right and and i think for a lot it's really confusing right and they just go back to work yeah for me it was never you know that was never the first place i go to right it was always well now that i have time and freedom what do i what do i want my life to be right i don't think i don't think many founders ask themselves that question right they immediately go towards what they know versus trying to be a bit uncomfortable and say well and uh we don't we don't want that and actually we naturally don't want that we are hardwired to avoid difficult decisions and difficult situations.

42:17So it's very understandable that people are exhausted already after having spent over a decade building a business and they don't want a difficult decision, which is actually such a paradox in a way, because you would say it's very hard to properly relax after an exit because very soon it doesn't feel very comfortable. We're not used to it. We're actually comfortable working very hard, having a structure, having clear goals, being in an environment we're used to. So, Roy, that brings me to the next question. So, okay, you are back from 14 months of globetrotting. What's your thinking? Like, what is it you want most at that point?

43:07You've satisfied your desire to experience freedom around the world. So I come back. Yeah, I mean, I come back, right? The kids go to school. And for the first time, I'm sitting alone thinking, right? Because 14 months, I didn't have to answer that question or really think about it. So I come back. And, you know, it takes, we actually moved to a different place. And, and it takes a few months to settle in. But but after I finally have this time to sit down and think, I'm still not sure. Right. And I discover some people that I met through just going outside and running and getting on a bike and cycling.

43:52And there's these people doing Ironmans everywhere around me. I didn't know anything about it, by the way. Nobody around me has ever done it. And I see these guys with bags. And I'm like, what? How would you know? You were in the office. How would you know? I was in the office. Right. I didn't have time for this. so so i see all these guys doing iron mans and they're swimming and they're like active you know they're older than me uh because you know i'm i'm how old am i 41 42 maybe at the time um and and i said oh i can do this you know so i i literally learned to road bike i learned to swim i've got i used to run a little bit so so i've got that you know but you know a marathon is like It was crazy for me, but I discover how to do it.

44:36And I spend the next couple of years just, just hanging out with them and, you know, ultimately doing, doing, you know, half Ironman and then full Ironman. Um, and discovering that I really love cycling. Like that was something that I didn't really know. Yeah. Um, so I, and, and I still do, and I, this is still a huge part of my life. And, and I, you know, I spent quite a bit of time, you know, doing it. I find that cycling is just the perfect sport that combines individual goals and targets. And it's hard. It can always be hard. You never really conquer it. But it's also very social. And I've met incredible people and incredible friends through cycling.

45:24And I do that to this day, traveling the world and going on different trips and experiences. all started in that moment where I sort of had to figure out what's next for myself sitting at home. And that was a big part of my life. I don't do that as much today because I'm busier now. But I honestly look back and I say that was really, really great. Remember, I had no passions. I didn't really have any. When I left, I had nothing. I mean, if it wasn't for this trip, I'd probably wake up in the morning and figure out, or not figure out what I wanted to do with myself. So this was great. I discovered that I love sports, that I love the outdoors, that I love to cycle, that I use cycling as a way to meet people and to build social relationships.

46:15That was really, really big for me. And that kind of brings me to sort of COVID era. That was that bridge between time that we got back, adjusted, um i did some some competitions and was focused on you know on that on that side of my of my life um and and that brings me now to sort of covid and you know us my partner and i starting um the fund which which you know which is occupying me you know a lot more these days um but i think that when i look back you know i've had to reinvent myself a couple times since i left ebay right First was taking that trip, that long trip, and getting reacquainted with the family.

47:03The second is finding passion in sports and athletics and really finding a lot of purpose in that. And now with the fund and what we do as early stage investors at R Squared, that's been absolutely a blast. And I'm really, really enjoying that as well. And we'll see what's next. I don't think this is the end for me. I think this is the beginning. so you know the great thing is that with time and um and freedom comes choice right and i you know i think that there's still a lot of choices ahead of me you know we'll see what those are i'm not sure but there's still probably some things ahead of me okay but i don't want to uh jump through your decision to start r squared because i'm very very interested in it how did you get to that why what problem were you self-solving when you decided to start it so i think after three four years of of being on the bike and and you know and running um what i found was that my brain was rotting a little bit right i think that it's um it takes obviously a different side of the brain and there's a lot of meaning and purpose in it, but to exclusively do that was not enough.

48:22And I had done some angel investing with a very close friend who I met when I invested in his company and he had a successful outcome as well. And he sold his company and he left. It's my partner now in R-squared. And he called me and said, okay, Roy, get off the couch. Let's do this now more institutionally. Um, and, you know, I was leaning towards a lot more of that. I was really, you know, gaining a lot, um, uh, by, by spending time with the entrepreneurial teams that I backed and I really enjoyed it. It kept my, my brain working. It, you know, I was, I was curious, I was learning, I was able to provide feedback and have an impact on these companies journey.

49:10um i didn't lose my sleep over it i mean i keep saying that magento is what is why i lost all my hair um here's a different here's a different uh scenario here where you you don't really lose sleep you know for me at least i don't really lose sleep as much right i obviously care and i'm passionate i want these companies to do well and succeed um but it's a very different type of responsibility that you have as an investor um so i you know again you know i gained a lot from it I loved it. You know, we have a little bit of a different model in, you know, in R-squared than I would say most funds and don't have an aspiration to go build a massive platform.

49:46But we love spending time with early stage teams and, you know, and spending, you know, providing a lot of value. And I found that to be, you know, incredibly meaningful. I can still bike. I can still spend time with my kids. I can still pursue other passions and hobbies. I can still meet incredible people around the world, which has been something that I wanted to do all, you know, all through the last 10 years of my life and, you know, hopefully continue to do that. But I also get to use my brain a little bit. So I feel like that's a benefit. So for how long you've been doing it now? I wouldn't say full time, but institutionally, angel investing.

50:26We started in 2021. So I think it's going to be just over three years now. So I assume it's too early to say if it was a good investment or not for you. Yeah, it's too early to tell. I think we'll know only a few years if the outcomes. We feel like we have great companies, but we'll see obviously what happens. I have a lot of history. I started angel investing in 2012. So there's already a 12-year track record. And it's been actually phenomenal for me personally.

51:01and you know and I hope that we're doing our job selecting the right teams in the right companies we hope so but you know time will tell so when you sold Magento was it a life-changing event for you financially absolutely yeah how since then you've been thinking about managing your money so at first I decided not to think about it and I hired people to help me do that we worked with Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch. And I punted that decision. But I didn't sleep well at night, because I need to have, especially with money, you know, it's very emotional, as you as you know, I needed to have clarity and transparency and really understand what's happening.

51:45Yeah. So I started working with them as a way to just get through the first bit of time and not have to think about it. But later on, I decided to take this on to myself. and ended up moving away from them and now manage all of it on my own. And what's your philosophy, if you don't mind me asking? Like, are you going after safety? Yeah, I think I'm a rather conservative investor. I've learned that for me to sleep well at night, I need to fundamentally have a very simple approach and portfolio. I'm really not looking to have anything super complicated. um i think what i found in the other investment professionals that i've worked with is that it's incredibly complicated the strategies that they execute and the products that they like to put people into um largely to show their value they still can't beat smp exactly so i listen i mean i did a lot of testing and research and and um and measured them for for a good number of years to understand because i thought i was kind of stupid in this right not having that background I said, these guys are so smart.

52:54And what I discovered was that the simple strategies, the ones that I gravitated towards because I could understand, outperformed the more complex strategies where fees are a big portion of the drag on performance. absolutely so today i you know i manage it on my own it's very very simple um i you know i'm largely exposed you know to public equities um and and i do you know some real estate investments on the side as well um and you know and invest in startups but largely when you look at everything that i have it's it's a very conservative approach um i'm you know i'm not looking to to to have home runs in every single asset class that I invest in.

53:43Um, and, you know, I want, I want to be able to sleep at night knowing that, um, we can, we can grow it, you know, at a very slow pace, but, but, but grow it over time and, and, you know, maintain, you know, the quality of life, um, which, you know, we live, I think well below our means. Um, it's just because that's where we're comfortable with. We, you know, we don't really, I mean, be on my bikes i don't really need anything else um so we you know we're happy with where we are and and and have largely simplified you know a lot of this so that we can sleep easier at night so what percentage of your net worth would you be comfortable spending and your investing investing in terms of the stock market you're you're asking um a very small percentage of my net worth is in startups and technology, very, very small portion of it.

54:39A larger portion is in real estate, but the bulk of it is in public equities. So would you say you're doing it primarily for non-financial reasons? The investing side of my life, absolutely. I'm not doing this for financial reasons. No, no. I'm doing this because I love spending time with these teams. I love getting to know new people. I love learning. And I think that's, actually, that's probably the number one thing. Every single call that I have, I learn something new, right? And I love that I can be challenged, you know, by a lot of really early stage teams that have a different philosophy or mindset or go to market approach.

55:22You know, and I'm privileged to sit down and like have all these guys tell me what they're thinking about, right? Much like you, right? this podcast i'm privileged to just learn every single day and and be exposed to really smart people that are willing to uh give their time and and share with me what they're thinking about yeah no absolutely there are so many different ways to solve that need of ours to talk to interesting people and to to learn absolutely angel investor is one of them i'm asking because some people um do do it for financial reasons and it's obviously a very risky type of an investment and uh it's so i was curious yeah so so can we switch to a completely different thing yeah do you have a sense of purpose i think i'm still searching for it how do you define purpose what is it you're searching for you know i want to look back at some point of my life and say i have accomplished beyond magento because magento is a business i My purpose wasn't to go build a startup.

56:26That was something I did along the way. But I think there's more to me and to what I want to be remembered for than just that. Now, I don't have an answer for what that other side is. And that's what I'm still searching for. You know, when I, I'll give a quick anecdote. When I left Magento, I, you know, I wanted to be involved in some philanthropic. Philanthropy is a big part of our life now. And we work with a number of organizations. but for years I couldn't find anything that I gravitated towards. I didn't just want to write a check. Like to me, that wasn't enough. That didn't really solve what I was looking for when trying to be involved with an organization.

57:16And it took me a few years to find, you know, to find these things that are really meaningful and play a big role for us. and we contribute and we're involved and we help out and the kids are involved as well. But we want to continue seeking for what that next thing is and what we really fully get behind. This is still sort of on the side. It's partial. It's not, we write a check, but we're involved. But it feels like there could be a whole lot more out there for us. and when I think about the next stage or two of my life I feel like that is a big part of it now I can't tell you what that is because I've been searching for it when we travel the world I would meet with a lot of non-profits in the various areas that we would travel to I would seek them out right we're in Guatemala and in Costa Rica and then in in in Ecuador we would try to find these stories in these organizations that we could really connect with.

58:27And we, you know, we ultimately, you know, wrote a few checks, but we didn't really connect with what that is. I think as I'm becoming older and I'm seeing, you know, I'm seeing more around my community around here, you know, we're Jewish, so we're involved in the Jewish community. um you know these are things that we think we um we can gravitate a lot more towards but my wife and i have have these conversations often we want to play a positive role you know in people's lives and you know and do something that's meaningful both for for us and more importantly to those that we um try to try to help and um and be involved with but we're still in search, I have to say.

59:11It's been 13 years, 14 years since we sold the company and we're still on that journey of discovery. I wish it was easier to find but it does take a lot of time to do so. Roy, when you were in Magento, did you have a sense of purpose? I think when I was in the business, my sense of purpose was to go build out the company. Absolutely. I felt very motivated, very passionate. I knew what I wanted to achieve. It was very singular. I didn't really know anything outside of it. Would you say, if you try to remember that, did you realize the business was giving you purpose or you only realized it after you sold business?

59:55No, at that moment in time, I felt like I was 100 % focused with a great sense of mission and purpose on building out the business. I didn't feel like I needed something from outside of it. However, I mean, I knew that I was missing some things in my life, primarily my family. I didn't see my family, right? And so there was a cost. There was a direct cost to what I was doing. And that always bothered me, meaning that I wasn't fully fulfilled because I knew that there was a side of what I was doing, a side of me that just wasn't around, right? And it's missing the opportunity to be the kind of father and husband that I always wanted to be.

1:00:50But that was what I needed to do at that moment in time. So it sounds like you're telling me that you had a sense of purpose, but you didn't feel fulfilled because that family side of your life was missing. Yes, I think it's a very fair way of characterizing it. So if you were putting your life together as a puzzle today, you would say today the family part of my life is here, but now my purpose is missing. And you're looking for that now. Yes, yes. I think you've described it well. I think that when I look at what I do today, I enjoy it. Do I wake up and say this is the rest of my life where I will fully get behind it?

1:01:43No. I think that I'm in search of what that next chapter is. I've been good at reinventing myself a few times. And I know that there will be more reinventions to come. I'm not fulfilled from that perspective. So you also mentioned that you are involved in philanthropy and obviously you have R-squared, which is an angel investment firm, and they don't give you the kind of sense of purpose you had back in Magento. it's hard for me to measure the two i i'm i i you know we're building a company there's there's a different level of tension and momentum um

1:02:32and passion um you know when you're building a venture capital firm i think i think it's a bit different right you take a much more passive role to the investments as we're pretty active but still it's it's nothing in comparison to what we were both my partner and i as operators

1:02:52um i enjoy the balance that it gives me today in life because today in life i have other passions i have other interests right starting with a family to my my community and my and my friends and my time to be outside in the mountains here and bike and hike and do everything else that I do. These are all important things in my life. I couldn't do it quite at this level if I was still an operator running a business. So when a lot of people ask me, why didn't you start another business? And my simple answer is because I know the cost. I would have to give up a whole lot of what I am today to make that happen.

1:03:33Right. And I'm, I'm not willing to pay the cost. So help me understand what's, what's the difference between your investment firm and Magento where your sense of purpose is lacking. Why in Magento there was sense of purpose and now you're clearly enjoying your new venture, but it's not quite giving you a sense of purpose. What is missing? I don't know if anything is missing. I think I have additional perspective to life. You know, when Magento was happening, that was very different. I had no money, right? I was broke. This was the only thing that I had going for. You know, I put everything I had into it.

1:04:21I think as an investor today, and maybe other investors, you know we'll say the same you know there's a different there's a different dynamic here where you're doing this at a later stage in life i am doing this at a later stage in life um i have other things that run in parallel to it the way that i've approached it is from a very different angle right where this is maybe the bulk of my day but it's not my entire day where magenta was everything was you know from i mean it was 24 hours for for 10 years right it was 24 hours this is very very different this is part of my day and i love that this part of my day

1:05:05um but i have i have so many other you know other responsibilities and things that i love to do in life today that are also very important part of my day so um i'm not sure if this answers your question or not no it is it is i'm just trying to figure out what purpose is for you and why you had it in the past you want it today you don't have it today even though you've experienced so many other different things and your life is much richer and maybe much more fulfilling would you say it's more fulfilling or less fulfilling it's a hundred percent more fulfilling exactly it's more fulfilling you you still are hungry for that sense of purpose but you can't find it so i'm just trying to pinpoint what it is that you're missing in your life that would would have would be giving you a sense of purpose listen i think it's a fair question i i and i don't have a clear answer because i don't think i've yet discovered it right i can tell you what i enjoy to do what occupies my day, what I'm, what I'm having a lot of passion for, but is it, I think purpose is that next level thing that for me, as I said, I'm still in the process of, um, of discovering, you know, I found myself, I mean, I'll tell you another example.

1:06:31I found myself leaving Magento, as I said, with largely no friends, a lot of colleagues, tons of colleagues, but who do I call in the middle of the night if something goes bad? Right. Um, And I've been on a mission to meet people. That is a high priority for my wife and I, to expand. Yeah, because we said, you know what, we have lost 10, 15 years of our life in meeting people. Now we have to, you know, to kind of make it back. How do you go about it? I really make an effort. I invite people over. I open up my house. I reach out to people. and people that are interesting that I know have something in common with.

1:07:17I put myself out. It's work. I put myself out there, and I have no shame. Amazing. And it's not natural to me, by the way. I'm sure it's not. Yeah, no. But you know what? I do this over and over again, and I've made some incredible friends. I go on these cycling trips. cycling is the best way to meet people because you have them hostage next to you riding a bike for hours and and it's i mean hostage it's funny right because we all want to be there together but people are very open it's a very it's a very you know it's it's a great community and i've met people just riding bikes um even randomly like i'll go on a bike ride right now and i can meet some interesting people that are riding like so it's not planned but um but it's been it's been um it's been amazing.

1:08:08It's opened up my life. Um, in so many ways, I have friends from all over the world. I'm not done. I want more friends. I want to have more colleagues. I want to, I want to learn from people. Um, and, and it's a job. It's like, we we've taken this as, as a, as something that is very important for our wellbeing to build communities and to have, you know to have people that we we can spend time with um and and we think it's it's it's really really important you know another thing that was interesting magenta was like this rocket chip from the first minute it was absolutely you know um just such a fast-moving train that that i was caught unprepared right to really deal with it didn't have the right team had a lot of demands from partners and from customers and from the ecosystem at large.

1:09:07And it was very hard to keep up, right? Which was very, very draining for me as a leader. Because I always felt like I wasn't delivering. I always felt like I was coming up short. Really up until the end, right? We never had enough people, resources. The demand was all, I've never spent a dollar marketing. It was all organic. Amazing. and but um we would put these conferences uh together and uh and you know in vegas and 3 000 people would come and i couldn't even walk the halls because people would come to me with asking for things feedback wanted to shake my hand wanted to take some selfies all that kind it got to the point where I needed a posse with me just to follow me because I could not make it from one meeting to the next so what I would do in future years with these events I would literally just hide in my room and I still to this day believe that there's a part of me that wanted to be just in a cave and just weather the storm because I could not deal with the volume that was coming my way.

1:10:33And the way that I dealt with it, you know, everything, any type of feedback that somebody would give me, I would take to heart. Of course. It's not like I was this, you know, it all was able to be brushed off me in a second. Yeah. So it sat in my head and I couldn't sleep if things weren't right or weren't perfect or could be optimized. Yeah, draining and overwhelming. And I can see that you're quite introvert-ish. So all these activities would naturally be draining for you. They wouldn't be energizing. I can see that. You're right. You're good. You're good.

1:11:11Fantastic. But Roy, now I'm really curious. So you had all this attention and maybe you didn't want it, but you had it. But when the company was sold, how did you deal with not having that identity as a CEO, founder, all this tension? How did you deal with it? It was in some ways a relief, I have to say.

1:11:37Because it became, not immediately, but it became somebody else's problem. Growth is often, I mean, you know, it's interesting. It's almost like the wrong answer to give or not the expected answer to give. But this was so draining on me. And this was so fast and so quick. And it became such an onus on me personally. I don't think I slept for 10 years. I was 45 pounds heavier, by the way. Yeah. Right? And when this was over, I felt a sense of relief. that I could finally sleep at night, that there's more resources, more people that cared than just me, although obviously my team cared. But, you know, still at the very top as the leader, this became something that was on my shoulders.

1:12:33There were other shoulders that this could fall, you know, issues that could fall on. And when you have a high-growth, fast-growth company, there are tons of issues, right? Maybe from the outside it's hard to see, but, you know, this is an entrepreneur yourself yeah you don't want to see sort of uh you know beyond uh you know under the table what's what's going on it's overwhelming it's huge responsibility uh it's stressful absolutely but it's interesting that i guess your ego was not quite as big as uh most of us if you didn't if you didn't feel the need to find a replacement for your prestigious status Right.

1:13:15I don't think I even wanted the status. Was it a burden? Look, I loved it. Right. I loved it in many ways, but it was absolutely a burden. You know, it was, it was, you know, when I went home, you know, I wasn't thinking about my status. I just wanted to be with the family. Right. And, and yes, I, I think I, you know, I, or at least I like to think that I don't have an ego. And it's funny because when, um, when I sat down with, um, with the folks at eBay, when they acquired the company they asked me what i wanted to do next at ebay about my career and i looked at them and i said whatever you need me to do right whatever you think is going to be the right place for me to add value to you they probably didn't believe you they did they i i swear to you they were shocked and i remember this i said well wait a minute but that's not the typical answer we get i said well i i love what i do and and and i just want to continue adding value you know i also side of me knew that i probably won't stay there forever um but you know they're used to working in environments where people have aspirations to grow and to become you know meaningful stakeholders and and you know for me um i just wanted to build So was it the creative bit that was the most fulfilling for you?

1:14:41Or was it more the operational side of things? 100 % creative. I don't think the operational side was actually a strong suit of mine. And I had great operators underneath me. And that saved, I think, a lot of what we were doing. And I realized this. And this is why I brought those people on. I've always believed that I'm a creative trapped sort of in a, either an engineer or a business person's body. But I love the creative side of it. You know, the entire story of Magento is a creative story if you think about it. Right. How do you bootstrapped? Yeah. I mean, there's so much of what we did that we had to be creative and engineer our way through different models.

1:15:30This was a non-standard company by many, many means. Yeah. And it achieved nonstandard outcomes by many means as well. Right. But there was a lot of creative process in there. And I've always been this has always been inside of me that I've always wanted to explore more of. And I knew that there was something there. And this was the this is how it manifested right through through through building this technology company. So how do you channel your creativity now? I mean, I've done a few things over the years, whether it's, you know, to paint or to draw or to even, you know, even play around with woodshop.

1:16:09I can't say that I've found yet what anything that that that is sticking. But there's always a lens that I look the world through, which is, you know, which is creative lens. our home the way that we approach different opportunities and problems but I think it's still an unfulfilled part of my personality and I've known this is part of me from a very young age

1:16:44and there's still more on this front I hope to some extent if the right things lineup. But it's definitely part of my persona that I think about continuously. Brilliant, because I found that it's very helpful for people after an exit to have clarity as to whether they're creators, operators, or investors. Because if you don't have that clarity, this is where you see people who are very creative trying to do very uncreative work, which they don't find fulfilling. They're not motivated a few years later, and they just want to correct their course because they went into the wrong direction early on.

1:17:30It happens all the time. So I'm very happy to hear that you had clarity on that. Roy, I always ask the same question at the end of the interview, But you actually started answering that question earlier on, but I'll still ask you. How do you want to be remembered? I think when looking back, I want to play a role and make an impact. And I'm not talking about the business side of things, because I think that's less interesting. I think for me, it's about having an impact in my community, having something that helps our people, our community, that the kids can be part of, that the kids will want to have in their life.

1:18:31So it's not forced. It's something that they are part of from the very, very beginning.

1:18:40and something that will define the sense of purpose for the rest of our lives. Beautiful. Thank you. I can't finish the interview, though, because you just said something that makes me keep asking you questions. Why are you saying that a business cannot have that kind of impact to you? you want because magento changed the world for the better for so many people what's wrong with that magento has and and you know magento has transformed many people's lives um

1:19:25but it doesn't it's not enough for me it's not enough i i actually want more good and and i think okay and i think i'm capable of it right you know now with the means and and i think the experience and and i want to say the gray hair but but the age um

1:19:52and you know i'm obviously very proud and you know people still to this day reach out and share how much Magento is meant for them and change their lives. But I feel like I can do that over and over again, right? In terms of the ability now to make an impact through other channels as well. So maybe it's because it came at a much younger place in my life. and maybe many would say that's enough. We've made an impact. We're good. But I don't feel fulfilled there, right? I feel like there's a whole lot more there ahead of us. I love it. To me, it looks like you're really ready to start that new chapter in your life where you find that real impact that's truly yours, uniquely yours and comes from who you are from understanding who you are and what you want in life.

1:20:53That's wonderful. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Roy, thank you so very much. I could be talking to you for hours and hours. I hope we'll do it again. And you'll update me on your continuing search for purpose and fulfillment. And in the meantime, just I'm super grateful for that. Thank you. You're wonderful. I share your podcast with as many founders as I possibly can because I know this is an issue. You know, we have friends that struggle with this. And it's a real issue. And I think you're the first one to really pick up on it and talk about it, right? And it's something that I've thought about since the minute I left.

1:21:39You know, part of this trip for me was escaping this eventual reality of having to deal with the situation, right? Of course. that's how i dealt with it not everybody can deal with it in these you know in this way for various reasons um but i i think what was unique about me is that i understood that this is a problem yeah sure and and i i said okay well how do i deal with this problem i deal with it by hiding in a cave for a little bit right by stepping outside yeah well though you didn't just hide in the cave you were out there interacting with the world and learning about yourself by interacting with the world which is super important because yes we do need to sit alone in the room and think about you know what's inside but we also need to interact with the world as much as we can so we have all these experiences helping us move forward i think it's 100 but the the cost for me by the way nobody talked about this in the bottom thing but the but the cost for me was that at my peak, I ran away.

1:22:46And not only that, I never came back to LA. I live about 30 miles north of LA. So as this ecosystem here was beginning to really grow,

1:22:59many people don't know me here in LA. And they should because I probably had one of the biggest exits in LA's history. and you know every time i come back now as an investor i have to develop relationships so i come back and i meet with people and and you know we go to dinners and they're blown away they're like i've never heard this story and i say yes because i left because you left i left right no because i i needed to leave i needed to get away right because it was just there was it was it was absolutely nuts you know for me having to deal with it but i'm really excited to see how your thinking will develop in what direction, what you find deeply fulfilling for yourself.

1:23:45Whatever it is, it may be very different from what anybody has in mind, right? Because it will be truly yours. Thank you so much. All right. Well, listen, this was amazing. You're so great. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you, Roy. Talk to you soon.