Tony Kula. Post-Exit Shift: From Workaholic to Ironman

0:00Welcome to the Exit Paradox podcast, where we discuss how to build a fulfilling and meaningful life after selling a business. I'm Anastasia Koroleva, an exited founder who spent the last 13 years researching and collecting stories about life after a successful business sale. I had financial purpose. I wanted to be independent and I think I would not find it in being employed somewhere and working for someone else. Tony Kula. He has built three businesses, exiting his first in his mid-20s and spending two decades turning the next into a video distribution powerhouse, which he sold six years ago.

0:38His latest venture, Meet You, skyrocketed during the pandemic, but faced serious challenges afterward, prompting Tony to reassess his priorities. Now he's an advocate for healthy living, an Ironman athlete and is finding his new purpose through angel investing and writing. If I would not have my sports, I would just freak out. I would say I have more routines now. I'm physically better than I was like 10 years ago. In this episode, we explore his three decades of post-exit lessons and his uniquely European take on work-life balance. Hi Tony. Hi Anastasia. Hi very happy to have you here. If you don't mind I want to start with saying that it's quite incredible that you had three exits at very different stages in your life and if you can briefly tell us also what each of the company did that would be great.

1:39In terms of exits it's like maybe two and a half exits um because the last one was not a financial exit i just um stopped working in in my company um yeah let's start maybe with the first one that was um a very small software business that i um was a spin-off out of my um my other business and we were like building a software that was there that was connecting video conferencing systems at that time in my early 20s so this is now 25 years ago um the video conferencing systems they were not talking like one to another and um yeah i had a bright guy a cto that um we had at this time and we were building that and uh like more or less by accident in a u.s company a listed company um that was listed on nasdaq they exactly liked that software we didn't have any customers by that time we just could show and it was like really we faked that a little bit but yeah they liked it so much they invited us to texas um and i sold the company so they said here's the offer so i had no idea about mna i was not thinking too much i was 25 or 26 years and um yeah it was a lot of money for me and I could invest it in my business but I was not like saying okay now let's stop working I did some mistakes on the stock exchange because I thought now I'm going to be super smart but luckily I also bought my first real estate at that time and then I started to build the my the next company which is called MVC that I had for many many years that was a large video distribution provider so I was always liking in communications and yeah and then out of that yeah and I sold my shares in that in 2018 but in parallel I already started my other business because I didn't want to do hardware all my life so I wanted to get back in software and services so I started my current company MeetYou and MeetYou is a provider of web conferencing video conferencing teleconferencing and we acquired a small company like was like a single digit transaction and integrated that and they had like what I was fascinated about digital events and then the pandemic came that really went through the roof it grew very fast um and that was like when i was like in my late 40s and in 2021 yeah i was 50 51 i wanted to finish anyway somehow working um and then we had two crazy years to where i um yeah the company grew very fast and everything and we had a good chance to sell it but we had to maybe too aggressive M &A advisors.

4:47So it didn't happen. Momentum was gone. And yeah, we stayed with the company. And after that, a big roller coaster started. It had to lay off a lot of people. And I said, OK, I had a much younger team, like 10 years younger, and they wanted to take care of that. And that was like my third exit, which was not a financial one. But I decided to step out or step down as a CEO and spend more time than here in France, where I live now, for 10 years. And yeah, so these are basically the three exits in three very different phases of my life. So you mentioned that the very first exit, when you were in your mid-20s, brought you enough financial resources and you even started investing in real estate.

5:39why did you decide at that point to start a new company first of all i had these other companies so this was like more i always thought this was like a lucky punch that we could sell that in that manner it was no process it was no bidding it was just someone it was having the right thing at the right time and and i just took the opportunity i was maybe smart enough not to things so much like I did in my last one otherwise I would have sold it so I just did it and I never had the idea to quit working or something so I still had the other company I could invest into that business and in the MVC business and yeah and then I started to build MVC over many years and for me it always one thing came out of the other I never really stopped something so hard and then I did something else.

6:34I know the American way is like I built it, I do that, I sell it, I do the next one. So for me it was like things happening somehow also a little bit in parallel and one thing came out of the other in a way. And we see it took you 20 years to build didn't it? Yeah. Before you sold it six years ago. I sold it in yeah but it was also not a very typical exit so I sold it in different stages so I sold different I had different smaller exits and then in 2018 I sold my the last share so it's MVC is still around and it's doing fine so it's yeah but out of MVC I already in parallel again I started building meet you because I wanted to do new things I also moved away from where I lived at that time in Frankfurt to Berlin and yeah so I maybe I was always a little bit like a multi-entrepreneur doing different things a bit.

7:39So what do you think drove you to keep doing it was it more a financial motivator or was it your creativity what pushed you forward for so many years? I think like every entrepreneur, I love entrepreneurship. I love Mondays. I like to get up and do something. I love selling. I'm a salesperson. And it's also like an evolution. So I started with video conferencing, video conferencing software. I went into teleconferencing. I also did a large acquisition. I bought Team World Service Center from Deutsche Telekom. I built conference service provider so i was always curious and doing new things and along the way i had this the situations where i could exit in whole or parts of the business okay so what happened at 50 it was not the number first i thought it's the number but when i woke up the day i was 50 it was the same like the day before but um i think the pandemic changed much and and to be honest we also realized that when I started so young in my 20s you know I broke up I didn't finish the university I was always a sales guy I was selling flowers at the garden door of my parents so I was always the youngest but suddenly I was more or less the oldest and in my own company and we hired these people and I said okay time is so important and what can I do and how can I spend my time better so do i want to be in the office all the time so before it was like a little bit different but with the pandemic we started i was always a big fan of remote work and already starting with 40 where i really transform myself you have to imagine that i was 90 plus kilo um in my 40s so between 13 40 i was really working and working and working and building mvc and then starting with me too and doing all these things um but i was not living healthy and um to be honest i was a fat guy and then um i became an iron man so i totally changed my doctor said to me that um you probably gaining half a kilo to one kilo per year and if you want now it's it's it's still okay but if you want to see your kids grow up and everything so again i had a radical mind shift I was quite sporty before 30.

10:18I didn't do anything between 30 and 40. And then I could hardly run to the like 500 meters or something. And then I started and yeah, I did all these things and started running and started doing marathons and marathons were not enough. Started cycling and swimming and started triathlons and started with a small one and more and more and more. and I still love that and so I really that changed a lot for me to to find this this hobby for for myself and yeah and together with the pandemic and so the pandemic was very intense because we had a solution that people really wanted and needed they couldn't do events so we've been one of the companies that could deliver these digital events and so that was very very intense so the company grew from like 50 people to 150 people and in a very fast time and yeah but and then it went down because people wanted to go back to normal events and I said okay i need to to change something and um so while we're laying off people i said this is maybe a good sign also for me to to to step back and do something else and i was at that time like financially independent more or less so i did alongside my businesses i was investing in real estate and did other things so i could say okay so um um i'm also affected by that and that was good decision because it gave me some space now from from the actual business and everything so I could digest it because it's hard if you're so successful and then you make the most you say the most expensive no in your life that that was like almost yeah three digit millions amount so a huge amount of money i mean that would be worse to be called an exit um but i declined it because um yeah for whatever reason it it happened in the past so um i'm over it and that's fine and um yeah so and that was good for me to to do other things and started angel investing um writing on LinkedIn how we met and yeah so probably not the very exit story that you have from others where they say okay I built for 10 years 15 years and then I did a big exit and now I don't know what to do with my time I always knew what to do with my time so I love reading I do 100 things I always have to do something did you have all these hobbies your whole life or when did you discover them because you did work very hard i worked very hard um but it never felt like working so i enjoyed it it was like for me it was and if you're younger you don't feel it so hard so maybe today i would call it very hard because it's been many hours um i was in a way fearless i was doing crazy things i was doing marketing sales everything so i like to pull off things from the ground and do new things things.

13:48But during all that time, maybe not so much in the phase between 13 and 14, but my kids were born in 98. So it was like, and I got divorced and things. So it was not that I didn't have hobbies at that time, but I just simply had too many things at the same time and problems with my business partner. So I could not take care. But even in my 20s and not so much in my 30s, but then again very much in my 40s. I always was, I was like in a way like selfish. I took time for me and I traveled and I did things. So it was never that I thought, okay, let's achieve that and then I will do this. So I had financial goals.

14:38I wanted to have a Porsche by 30. I had it. it's just once you have it it's like the real thing to get it it's it's like gone so i still enjoyed it but um it's like yeah you're buying luxury things and and i don't know and and watches and stuff like that but you see this is not so important so i found um having good time with friends and and doing these sort of things gave me more satisfaction and i i did but i did nice things throughout all my life and I try to of course now more than because we when we're getting older I think we we understand that time is the most important thing that we have.

15:25So talking about time how long did it take you to go from that fat workaholic to an iron man? Five years. That's fast. How old were you when you started? I started end of 30. I did my first competitions beginning of 40 and um i did my first iron man that i that was like in um i was 43 how many years ago which year was that minus 12 years yeah in 2012 13 something like that running the new york marathon i was running um the berlin marathon for seven times in a row I was doing all these things. So I had between 40 and 50, I had a very intense sports career late, but I had it. And are you continuing now after 50?

16:17Of course, of course. I just, I cycle almost every day. I cycle every morning, like two, three hours. I just did with my partner. We did just moment two in Provence, this famous cycling mountain. And she just started two years ago. she's absolutely excited um and i was writing about that on linkedin so she's the real star because she's she has not so much time to train she's building her own business and i'm doing that but unfortunately that is also one thing is like the knees are getting that so i can't run as i did i didn't i did run too much on on concrete and so some knee problems and some other things, but I don't want to complain.

17:04Luckily, I'm okay. And yes, if I would not have my sports, I would just freak out. So you have this big smile while you're talking about your training. So I assume you did it because you love doing it. You actually love the process. I love it so much. It's like, for me, it's like I'm sitting on my bike with that big smile. So I see I'm not stressed to achieve something. I did some things and I'm in the moment, so I'm not with my phone. I enjoy the time and it's really nice. I like to swim in the sea. But you did enjoy building businesses quite as much when you did that. So again, what happened at 50 that made you decide, I don't enjoy it quite as much anymore?

18:00I think first of all, I was maybe disappointed that I missed that chance. I don't know. And it was not like, and I thought, okay, now you're 50. It's like, what would change if I would do that instead of this younger guy? I'm not saying that I'm not going to build another business. Maybe when I'm 60. I still love talking to founders. I love to, I speak with founders every day. writing about it I don't know but it's I don't have all the stress of of doing it so but it might come a time where I say okay I the idea is good enough I want to try it one one more time maybe I don't know so you stopped running your business meet you and switch to angel investing is it because it's less stressful it's totally different it just gives me a little bit so i did just around 10 investments so it's not i'm not a big angel so i'm looking at many things so i want to build a portfolio that is my plan so i'm if you want i'm a long distance guy in life in sports and business and from smarter guys i need to have at least so i allocated an amount of money that i want to deploy um you need to have at least 25 30 companies that that you're investing in so i was a bit too fast like always in the beginning because i wanted to to have it to say okay i did my first investment so it was yeah probably not a very good one and um so yeah but i'm learning i try to learn i try to to to connect to people that are doing that for a longer time and more experienced investors and yeah it gives me like the feeling that I see a lot of different things it's like out of intellectual curiosity I speak with young founders I see their their eyes when they're like passionate it reminds me how I was and I sometimes think oh it's it's good that you don't know what is coming and you just do it and I but I also need to learn that is it's not my business it's their business i cannot tell them how i i try to in the beginning to to help them a little bit i think it was too much um and you learn and when they need you you speak with them so it's like i try to support and be active so i'm always in this investor relation calls i take them serious and and yeah and i have i have time it's um it's good to have like um i think we been discussing that the last time it's like I have my blocks in the calendar on three days where I take these appointments so it gives me because other people they say what are you doing all day you can't be riding your bike all the time and I said yeah but I also work so this is when I have like sitting in my home office and doing discords and speaking and looking at deals So how much time do you really spend on your investments?

21:18Over the whole week, I would say maybe one working day, maybe eight to ten hours, something like that. Do you miss the structure you had when you ran the business? I would say I have more routines now. I can train much more structured. I'm physically better than I was like ten years ago, at least in cycling. I didn't have any routine. it just I went like early in the morning into the business and I went home in the evening so and I was busy the whole day and some days I did not even know in the evening what did I had for lunch I don't know especially the last year so yeah you fill your day with with appointments and And it depends what you, I mean, I look at people that are so much more successful and they have like very structured days.

22:16I don't know. I was just, I just tried to be there and speak with the people and speak with customers. And that, again, was also very depending on the stage of the company. So when MVC was bigger and everything. So in the beginning, I did everything. and I did a lot of sales and then in NBC we got investors and we had to do reports and we had a board and all these things so it became a bit different and we had assistants Do you ever miss it? Yes, not the business I miss to have a team I miss people because I always love to be around people I learn to be on my own I write with others I have family I have kids they have friends so there's always something going on but it was nice to so I still speak one hour a week with the meet you guys and they update me and we're discussing a bit about the progress but it was different so when you had a team you had this responsibility you were standing in front of the team it was like hey let's we have to do that and we can make it and everything.

23:32So it was like in business angel is a bit of you're like a bit of a lonely guy. It's not it's not a VC company where you maybe have a partner or like a little team. You're like a bit disconnected. But I speak and with people so it's okay. But I miss it, yes. So do you miss the creative side of it? The creative side of it was That is a very good question. I think this is what drives us most. And I mean, creative in every way, like not creative because I was not creating art or something, but we were like creating solutions for problems all the time and fixing things. And you had to be creative.

24:23either the money was not enough or problems with the customer you always needed to be creative and and that was something that was it kept your mind busy that is um i missed that too so um and also seeing um what gave me a lot of um now in a retro perspective like a lot of pleasure was like seeing people that start to work for you and how they develop and how they start like i don't know in a very low position and or people that had no good cvs and they are getting better and better and seeing their loyalty and see how they strive so that was something also that I always really enjoy I think I was quite an asshole in the first years because I just had to I am saying that to myself maybe no probably I was but it was like I until we started doing feedback service and things and you always have like a different perception I didn't reflect so much on what I was doing I was just doing it and I wanted to be successful and so i had no time and no money to discuss everything in the big round and say okay guys let's do it like this um and one of you have one voice so you're like five guys but i have five voices so okay so the the vote is over and um and we're going to do it like this but over time you become a better manager and and um yeah so it's it's uh also an evolution as as a person that is happening privately and also in business, I think.

26:11So now that you've stopped working two years ago, and I know you write beautifully on LinkedIn, and I highly recommend anybody who is listening to us to follow you. I think your posts there are absolutely fascinating. So do you feel you had a chance to process your previous experience? and you understand yourself better as a person and as an entrepreneur? I think writing helps. So I had a time when I was doing some kind of journaling. I meditate for a long time. I do yoga and these things. I think you need to get out of the actual business in order to properly reflect. I mean, I tried to when there were problems and I was thinking about, was I right?

27:12How did I treat this person? Was that okay? No, it was not. So I got better in that, but like more overall, how did I behave? So it's interesting because I read stories from others and then I think, oh, I have a good idea what happened to me in that respect. And then I write it down and I share a story. And it's always connected somehow to business, how we were winning large deals. And it's interesting. No, it's not so interesting, but I think it's quite normal. Also, so many things have changed, but still a lot of things are quite the same or the problems that I call them. These kids are seeing when they're starting a business, same like 30 years ago.

28:01So they have more tools and other things they can, but they still ask me, so this guy wants a company car, but the other hasn't one, so can I do that? And so we're talking about things that we've been talking for all the time. Tony, do you have a sense of purpose? I wanted to have my own money and move out from my parents' house. and so I had financial purpose I wanted so I didn't have like the purpose like I don't know changing the world for the better and these things so I know that every accelerator program everything yeah but what is the purpose in your business and your why and everything my why was simple so I come from middle class family we all had everything we wanted to have but I wanted more at that stage there were financial things I wanted to be independent and I think you can only achieve independence if you have some kind of financial independence and I knew I would not find it in a being employed somewhere and working for someone else so so the purpose was to have enough money that i um i really started small so my first purpose was that i could afford to buy a pair of quality socks and not like the six pack that my parents bought us for my brother myself so it was like the purpose started small and um over time i like also in meet you and when i got the kids and everything so i i understood but i have to lie or it would be a lie if i say i did it intentionally i but i use it very much then to to say okay but meet you has a purpose because it avoids business travel and everything and teleconferencing.

30:06So there is a purpose because we cannot pollute the world and everything. But saying that I was like the big green piece guy and that wants to save the world and everything and that is why I did that business would be a total lie. So I was always in that conferencing and collaboration business. I added purpose started with more the marketing side of purpose and then coming to my own purpose I think this is that changed and I was thinking a lot about what could be my purpose and I think there is some purpose in like being a good person that sounds I know that sounds very trivial but you can be a good employer you can have people that like to work in your place and i think that most of the people that were working like the last 20 years for us um would say that um would still talk to me and would say that they had a good time and i'm proud of that so they are spending a lot of time in the company, in our company, or wherever they work for.

31:23And I think that gave me purpose to be a good employer, to be fair, to treat the people in the right way and to give people a good job. And that became my sense of purpose. Actually now without having anything that I can, that I'm not an operator anymore at the moment. I do some type of donations. I give a lot of karma-based advice if they want it or not. And so I don't get anything in return. Is that purpose? I don't know. I try to support my kids as good as I can and to live in a happy relationship. So it's like, I know. so many definitions of purpose I think. Yeah but I'm just interested in your personal sense of purpose so since you left the business did you feel you lost that sense of purpose or you were just in the process of building a different type of purpose?

32:33Purpose of a business is making money so and um so i'm a capitalist and um and giving people jobs and and um creating value and um and since i'm not selling okay i would not sell porn stuff or weapons or something that i i always said i would not do something that i could not explain to my kids um so from that is that is my purpose i know people say a lot but what is on a personal level again it's like um it's a process i'm i i'm still trying to figure out that question to to be honest i don't know what is our purpose what is your purpose so it's a big word why are we here so people ask you this so and also i was i think i'm a heavy reader and i was reading from like russian literature everything so i i try to look at so many things and um and you can read ikigai in buddhism and i was like trying to but what is purpose i mean in in a world that is as crazy as it is at the moment when there is this war going on in Israel and in the Ukraine.

34:02And it's difficult. So I don't know. I try to be a good human. Brilliant. So how old are your kids now? Really old, I would say. So that's because I'm old. So the twins are 25. And I have like a bonus kid, which came from my new wife. and she's a little small. So my last question, Tony, is how do you want to be remembered? First of all, I love life and I want to, I don't know, so in my philosophy, it brings a bit of bad luck to speak about what will come after. So it's like, I don't know, I have to... You're superstitious. Exactly. That was the word that was not coming to my mind. I'm superstitious.

35:03So this is why I don't, again, I want to be remembered as someone that was kind and that helped people and that was a good person. Like my grandfather was that type of person. So this is how I remember him. So all the kids on the block, they loved him. and he was so, he was kind and smiling in a very genuine way. So he was like, you felt it was authentic. It was not like playing a role. And so, because if you take off all your clothes and all the material things and everything, what remains, what is the real essence of yourself? and so if you really, if you make yourself naked and I think it's like really trying to be yourself and an authentic person, a good person, someone that people would say he could freak out easily and he had his things going on and he was also a bit crazy but But he had a good heart.

36:23So he was like, he was a people person and he took care and I wanted, yeah. That's wonderful. Thank you, Tony. That's wonderful. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. You're welcome.