Debbie Bright | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:07Debbie. Hello. Thank you for joining me. pleasure i've been looking forward to this conversation tell me who is debbie bright well i'm many things to many people um so very important absolutely well you know sometimes i don't think i'm important but i've just come back from a really lovely break of a month away backpacking around asia and i realized how much i missed and i think sometimes you have to do that break because everyone takes Debbie Bright for granted and I am many things to many people and I remember my nan saying at one point, God bless her, she's gone a long time ago, very old hard Irish woman, she said you'll never please everybody all the time and I think I've tried to but you can't, they're very true words.

0:58So I'm a wife to Dave, I'm a daughter to my dad who we'll talk about him later but he's unfortunately left us. My mum has got Alzheimer's so I'm a carer for my mum. I'm a sister, I've got a brother and a sister who I also am very close to. So I'm a mother, I'm a foster mother, I'm a grandmother and I'm a friend. So many things to many people and sometimes I feel, to be honest, I'm so split in all different directions that that month away with a backpack just walking and travelling was just a recharging of my batteries. I know people think I must be mad because they go, why didn't you just go and lay by a pool?

1:48I was just going to say, under a parasol on the beach, surely. That's just not me. No, so you need to be active. Yeah. Which is very clear because how many children have you been fostered to now? So I've fostered over 200 children and I've been fostering for 32 years. So when I started fostering, I was 20, in my late 20s. And I only had two children at the time, which were Georgia. my oldest who's now 35 is she or 34 35 and Lydia who everyone knows Lydia Bright because it drives all my other children crazy because everyone goes it's Lydia's Bright's mum and they'll go well you're my mum as well like you know because everyone actually thought she was an only child on TOWIE she smashed it on socials I mean she smashed it I mean she's just busy the whole time like the girl is just focused and her energy and enthusiasm to succeed.

2:50Where did she get that from? I've got no idea where she gets that from. But yeah, everybody on Tower used to think she was the only child. So she's one of six. So you started fostering right at the time that your own children were young. Very young. So Georgia was three and I think Lydia was two. so I had them two in a double buggy when I started fostering. So we had a double buggy, I've got two daughters now 13 and 15 and I remember that time being really quite busy, quite stressful, all the stuff that comes at you that's new from going back to nappies to then learning to walk to nursery and so on, to then deliberately take the decision to help other children be a foster mum, I want to know the why behind that.

3:38To be honest and I will be very honest, I I didn't overthink anything. And I'm very like that. I don't plan or think anything in my life. I mean, an example of that was this morning. I wasn't going to bring up the button you had not got in the diary. Oh, oh, okay, yeah, I'll get rid of it. Is it today? Yeah, I don't really overanalyse anything. I don't think about things. And I truly had never heard about posturing. So I'd always been in fashion. and I had a really good job from school. You know, I was, you know, travelling and stuff. Then I had Georgia and then I fell pregnant with Lydia when Georgia was three months old.

4:21So they're like almost Irish twins. They were born more or less, one was born December 1, January. I thought, well, I can't go back to work now because, you know, by the time I put them in nursery and paid for two nursery fees. And then I thought, I'm just going to go back to work when they both go to school. And then I was sitting next to this woman, because I talk to everyone, which drives my kids crazy, because it takes me hours to get anywhere. Because I'm like, hello, oh, hello. They're lovely for that though as well. I started talking to this lovely lady. I don't even know her name. I mean, this was 33 years ago, because it took a year to be assessed.

5:02And I said, oh, are they all your children? I only had children, Lydia, at the time. And she went, oh, no, they're not all mine. I foster her. I went, oh, oh, yeah, I think I'd quite like to do that. And she went, oh, they're really short of foster carers at the moment. So I said, oh, OK, I'll give you my number and just pass it on. Yeah, I think I'll do that till they go back to school. So she went, oh, that'd be lovely. Never seen her again. Don't remember her name. Now, she changed my life. But more importantly, she changed so many children's lives. What an influence, right? And she doesn't even know it.

5:38She was a stranger. And that's why I'm always saying to my children, you need to talk to strangers. Get off your phones, put your phones away, talk to the person next to you, the woman next to you on the bus or the train or in a cafe, because all of these people will lead you to the next direction in your life. And that's what she done. And if only I could kiss her and hug her and tell her. Thank her. She's been amazing and she has made life so much fuller for so many people. She doesn't even know it. She doesn't even know it. And then I went home and I spoke to my husband, Dave. Well, he wasn't my husband at the time.

6:19I've only just married him because I've been waiting for my night in shining armour and he didn't arrive, so I thought best marry him.

6:29and he went absolutely not we've got our hands full i think i'd have been there but most men i think would do that to be honest i really do but i guess how much of how much of what is involved is he involved with and that's probably where we're coming to well he wasn't at the time and i must say and i will be did you convince me that you said this is on me i'm going to be no i I just said, well, I'm doing it. Mind's made up. Yeah, my mind's made up. I'm a very strong, like if I want to do something, but I've been like that since I was a child. If I want to do something, I'll just do it. I'm not worried about anybody else.

7:04I've never worried about that. I've always thought, well, if I feel I want to do it in my heart, I've never followed my head. My heart's telling me, then I will just do it. And the rest is history. A year after I've meeting that woman, it might have even been shorter, maybe nine, ten months, because somebody phoned me, I think, two days later, and I'd forgot about it by then because it's two days later. And they went, oh, we're calling you from social services. We've heard that you've expressed interest in fostering. I went, oh, I forgot all about that. So I said, oh, yeah, that would be quite nice.

7:40Would you like to come round for a cup of tea? And they went, oh, that would be lovely. And they come round and then literally nine, ten months after that, I had a newborn baby arrive, a little girl. And she would have been, well, she would be now 32. And I could be sitting next to her on a bus or a train. And she wouldn't even know that I looked after her for the first year of her life. And I often think I could be walking past her. Actually, she was Italian. I'm going to tell you that she was Italian. and it's a very sad story but anyway she arrived in my arms and I loved her for the first year of her life and my two daughters, Georgia and Lydia, you know they had their real life doll didn't they because they could feed her and change her, they was incredible with her and then she was adopted a year later.

8:42How much of what you do is sort of preparing children to go into adoption and how long do they stay with you? Is there a different answer to that question over the 200 or is there sort of a few years with you? How does that work? At that time going back to this little girl adoptions were very closed so you know you'd foster a baby and then when the adopters come along obviously you have a transition period but then that's it because it was you know and I sort of kind of get it but not really you know like I always struggled with it but you know they're waiting to have a baby haven't they you don't know if they've been trying for 10 years or 15 years I mean things have really changed over the years and then of course they pick their baby up and they just want don't know they don't want anybody else in their life so I kind of got it but it does you know and it has broken my heart over um many years I wonder this get upset now look I saw that and I'm not trying to make you upset I think you're such a positive person you met you outside bowling down the street big hugs you're larger than life personality yeah and I think that's obviously a massive strength of yours but yeah clearly there is an emotional attachment a lot of it yes and so many of these children even this Italian girl you just mentioned you know have a story behind them I mean I don't want you to have to go into particularly but have you have you really seen a sort of dark side to human beings if you like through this side because you get the fulfillment and the light that comes at the end and and being able to facilitate you know children to to be able to dare I say have a happy life where they simply wouldn't have done if they hadn't been connected to you but have you seen some trauma have you sort of become aware of lessons learned from some of the children that have really suffered yeah I mean absolutely like the trauma these children arrive with is horrendous sometimes and also the trauma that I don't think anyone actually understands the trauma that it gives foster carers because even that baby moving on that's that's traumatic but I'm not thinking about myself because I've also thinking you've got to think about georgia and lydia because they're losing a sister because one minute they're looking after a baby for a year and also so your feelings and everything have to be so kept in because you're just trying to keep all the family together when you was asking sorry i'll just go back to that because with adoptions it has really really changed over the years nearly all my adoptions over the last i'd say five ten years have been same-sex couples so either two males or two females or a single male or a single female because women have sperm donors now don't they or they go for IVF or things like that so the things have really changed and a lot of adoptions are now open adoptions so I still get to see them and if they move far away it's just video calls I think but you still see them growing up and it that is peace for me because I can see they're happy I can see that you know that they're growing into a family and that's peace so things have really changed for the positive um and but there are many adoptions that I had before things started changing that I just don't know what what what happened to them and what upsets me is they never know what influence it's like a bit of a book isn't it if you look open a book they're missing a big chapter of their life that's really well put that they'll never be able to read will they because that's gone but they'll remember the bit with you I mean it must be you must visibly see changes from children that dare I say have locked their emotions up and absolutely treated uh appallingly to then be given love to give them support and an instant kind of family if you like yeah and I think one of the things that's key to that is there's a loneliness pandemic in this world now, whether it's people consumed by their own social media and therefore not talking, like you said earlier about talk to strangers and so on, but that sense of tribe, sense of community, I can only imagine what it must be like to be in your house, let alone 30 years ago, 20 years ago, just always buzzing, probably all communicating.

13:05Yeah. Have you watched children come in and go from locked up emotionally to then flourishing? I've seen many many children like that I've got there's three at the moment that I've got in the middle one in particular she's just well I had actually my supervision social worker yesterday so every three months you have supervision with your social worker as a foster carer and you talk about the goods the bads any issues what's going on and one of the questions she asked what's your biggest greatest achievement of 2024 and I said seeing this child I won't say her name but this little girl who's seven absolutely she is a different child you know she's transformed right absolutely she's gone from being very teary very introvert very fearful no confidence to like a little madam now like she's singing and ordering everyone around and you see massive transformations but it's not always the transformations like you visualize where they are quiet and you know there's a lot of children that are complete opposite where they're you know just smashing things up and swearing and absconding and excluded from school so it's the other side.

14:32I think personally for me I find it much more difficult to deal with children who are very closed and inward so like this little girl in particular that's why I see it as a great achievement for me because I find that personally really hard to get to. I deal so much easier when they're swearing and kicking off and they're being authentic though right which is what you are you exude authenticity so just yeah I just I can deal with that much better for some reason whereas when they're like really hard to get through I mean these three girls I'm talking to you about the eldest one is I still haven't quacked that yet but I'm still working on it and actually the the month that I was away traveling and Asia I was thinking of all things I can do with her to and I've realised I really need a little bit more time on my own with her, you know, rather than with so many kids around.

15:28That's interesting because there's, I was going to ask you this, there's no real training for it, you know. So you, look at this conversation now. We both agreed that we would have no conversation until we sat down, sit down together, so it's raw and authentic. You're doing that in foster parenting now. You've got 30-odd years of experience, John, on but going back to 30 years ago your own experiences were through your own children so when you do have I guess you know a trickier personality to deal with you've got to take yourself out remove yourself and work out how to do it do you have any advice do you have any professional advice that you either seek out or that can can come from an organization if you'd like to help you with that again that's really changed immensely um you do have initial training when you start fostering, which is a very basic course.

16:20But I think whatever training, to be honest with you, over the years I've done so much training. I've got certificates for every training you can think of. I've done art therapy, play therapy. There's so much that I've done over the years. But I don't think really there's any training at all that can prepare you for what you are going to deal with as a foster carer and I don't think there's any book in the whole country that can help you because every foster carer is different and every child is different and I think you work it out yourselves and I think experience like what you were saying but some of the things that I do now I wouldn't have done five years ago 10 years ago 15 years ago you know all of my experiences through experiences I've been through and I've learned what I've done wrong and I've learned what I could have done better learning literally on the job yeah like parenting yeah basically you know it's like I'm there now yeah it's like I mean you've got two teenage daughters you've got a long way to go and you're going to go I'm in the trenches right now yeah you are you know and I think my you know my biggest asset was that I if I'm totally honest with you it's not the training not the books not the learning but I've got a very supportive family they're my rock so everybody helps each other and I think not just my family community I belong to a big huge community of incredible people and And, you know, we need to just pull in from that.

18:04We need to pull in from the resources we've got around us. And it might not be going on a course for this or reading that book. It might be just your neighbour next door or a local youth club at the church or a tennis club down the road. That's your resources. And if you do not involve yourself in a community and you do not involve your family with fostering, it's never going to work. No, you've articulated that so well. So let me think of something else, actually. By bringing foster children into the environment of existing children that are, I guess, ultimately, you're flesh and blood. There's an element of, I don't want to say priority, because I can imagine that's like, I can imagine in your company, you're looking after everybody, making sure they're all okay.

18:51But have you ever had a situation where you've been fostering children that you actually genuinely have to worry about the safeguarding, if you like, of your existing family. Because you've got a community there. So your greater community, as you just mentioned, but in that sort of house of 12 that you could be at that time, if one of them is potentially showing anger or behaviour that could actually really negatively influence and bring the sort of dynamic of your family down, have you had that? And how do you deal with that? I've had it so many times. I thought you might. I'm just trying to, from an empathetic point of view, I'm like, what would you do?

19:25I know when you ask that question it's like it sort of hits you in the face because I've had it so many times first of all as a foster carer yes you do have to safeguard to a certain extent um or to every extent to be honest not to a certain extent because it's about protecting your children my children and protecting yourself um but on the flip side of that you've got to keep it as a normal flowing household as loving as possible because fostering is about bringing children into a loving and caring and safe environment without being too restrained and you know like health and safety rules and policy rules but there are certain things I've always been really adamant about I mean first of all children that you foster cannot share the same bedrooms as your own children so that's number one number two they cannot go into the bedrooms of your own children and you know you have to really know what that when you're in the home you have to really know what they're all doing most of the time so we have like this really rule that's always been in my house that when they're all playing they play downstairs they don't play upstairs the communal side of things is downstairs so I don't know what they're doing up there so they're all I've got like a playroom and a kitchen area and a garden and it's sort of at the back of the house and that's where they all play and they are um so I kind of know most of the time what they're doing and also if other children come to the house they can't go upstairs you know they have to stay in that area children that are careful but even my children and they can't really have sleepovers they can't go to like their friends houses because then I have to get them police checked um so there's things that you sort of tweak you know and you work around because I've lived that life for so many years it's normality to us and it's normality to my children unfortunately you know this is statistics 47 percent of foster carers leave within the first two years of fostering because of allegations really and that's nearly half.

21:41So I'm always, always really preaching to social services. It's not about recruiting foster carers. It's about retaining them. Another part of my job is I'm a hub carer. So this idea come from America, I mean, years and years ago, but realistically, when you read about it it's called the mockingbird model it's really based around the old bernardo's model so anybody that reads or knows anything about bernardo's they used to have homes in barkinside which is east london and there would be like a mother and she'd look after like eight to ten children in this home but then there'd be another house next to them that it's called the bernardo's villages and then there would be another mother with eight or ten children and they'd all live in this little community of villages.

22:37The hub is sort of based around that and most local authorities have hubs now. There's a few that still haven't. So I'm a hub mother. So I look after, I can look after between nine and 14 foster carers so they all live within my area so they'll all be you know around the corner or you know 10 minutes in the car so whatever children are placed with them from the local authority also become part of my hub so my role in that is if there's anything those foster carers need to do so you might say well I've got a wedding next weekend can you have the children they automatically come to me they haven't got to think oh I've got no one to have the kids back to community it goes back to community or they can't go to them because they've not been police checked or so they come to me the asset of that the children know where they're coming they're not going to a stranger's so they don't have to phone social services and say I've been I'm away I've got to go away for four days because then social services then have to find another foster carer who they wouldn't know.

23:51So the children always come to somebody that they know, which is me, and I spoil them rottens. I do monthly activities where all the foster children come with me and some of their foster carers, but if the foster carers need a break, I take them. So for example, this Saturday, I took them all bowling at the O2. So the asset of that is these children when they first come into foster care all think that they're the only child that's fostered they don't think that anyone else is in care they don't because you're a child you know you don't know so they feel isolated feel lonely totally isolated then they don't want to tell their friends at school that that's not their mum picking them up and then when they do tell their friends at school we know how horrible children could be sometimes if they have an argument they go your mum don't love you and your dad don't want you that's why you're with so it's a very isolating thing so all of a sudden they go what you're fostered as well and you're fostered oh oh I can't why are you in foster care now we start talking about why they're in foster care they've got a relatability to be together it's such an incredible model and you know there's been I mean I can tell you a million pure wonderful stories that when I've listened to them talking and I just think like that's such an important thing for them.

25:16Also the foster carers can feel quite isolated, you know, especially if they're a child who's kicking off so they can't go here, they can't go there or, you know, they can just come with us and, you know, I'll have them and take them. It's an incredible model, absolutely incredible and then if the foster placement breaks down, which a lot of foster placements break down, these children move a lot, they automatically come to me until either they can work things out with the foster carer. You know, in time, everybody's mood and that heightened state of anger comes down. And, you know, even with your own children, you know, I mean, I'm not sure, but, you know, do they go to their nines or their aunts or, you know, just, you know, when you've had enough it's the same kind of thing but with foster children they don't have that outlet whereas i remember me i'd go go around your nans go around your aunts you know like yeah they don't have that whereas now you had somewhere to go whereas these kids don't so it stops foster breakdowns because they come to me things go a bit calmer especially with teenagers things go a little bit calmer the foster care has a couple of days break a couple of glasses of wine with her friends and two or three days later things start looking a bit better.

26:39That's brilliant. You know, I've learned so much just from that and one thing that's very, very clear is so much comes back to you and what I mean by that is that, you know, I don't even know when you get any sleep. I know you've just come back from this month's backpacking and although we joked about it but, you know, At what point are you getting some rest? What are you doing to keep those batteries charged? Because you look radiant right now and your eyes are fully lit with purpose, passion, fulfillment. But how are you doing that? Because you are doing so much. And what are you doing to look after yourself?

27:16I probably need six to eight, six hours sleep. If I've got six, eight if I can, that's fine. because you know when I have babies and I still do do newborn babies people go how do you do the sleepless nights that's what I'm sitting here thinking I mean I love the sleepless nights because I just think that time of a night when they get up for their feed and I think oh like I get them out for their little cots and my house is quiet I think oh my god there's no noise and and I just sit there and just look at these little bundles of joy, really. And I just do. I just keep going. So you've got the energy.

28:01The point being there's no part of you that is in any way getting tired of it. Because I feel like you're going to do this forever. Well, everyone says that as well. And I say the day that I wake up and I get out of bed and I don't run down the stairs or go get your school bags, It's the day that I think, right, I can't do this anymore. And, you know, that day will come. It's inevitable. The one thing we can all be sure of is we're all going to get older. We're all going to die. You know, and it's about fulfilling every single day of your life until that day comes. And you've got full, full days.

28:38It's actually quite, it's very much against what you do every day to go backpacking. And you could call it selfish. It's exactly what I'm sort of glad to hear you've done, right? because it's selfless what you're doing 24-7, really. You're looking after so many people, even bringing the foster group into play, let alone the immediate family. Your husband, where does he sit with this? So from being against it 30 years ago, I'm just imagining those peaceful, quiet nights where he's like, I don't get them anymore because he's a baby. No, he does. Where's he at with it? Don't worry about him. Don't worry about Dave.

29:12He definitely does. He's the complete opposite to me. That works, right? So laid back, you know, like he's just like slowly laid back. It does work. Well, it has worked because we got married five years ago, but I've been with him since I was 17, 18. Well then, congratulations. And so in lockdown, we built this beautiful log cabin at the end of our garden with a wood burner. Well, that's where he spends a lot of his time. So he's literally got the shed in the garden. That's his man cave, as they say. Bless him. So we've got like this side gate. So I think, where is he? You should know where you can find him.

29:55Where's he got? Where's he got? He don't answer the phone. And then I look and I can see the smoke coming out of the chimney where he's put the log burner on. And I think, oh my goodness, he's down the man cave again. So that's his little bit of escapism. And going back to Dave, when I first started fostering, and you probably think I'm like the most honest person in the whole unit, I'd probably say he wasn't the greatest father. I do say this to my kids as well, Georgia, Lydia, Freddie, Roma, Ellie and Tommy. I do say it to them because they all idolise him. Like you can't do nothing wrong. I'm the one who does everything wrong and he can't.

30:39They worship the ground he walks on. And I think, what? I need to meet him. No, I mean, what? What, what? You know, because, you know, he did work. He was on the building. He was in construction. So he did work. But he's a very man's man. So he'd work, go down the pub. Work, go down the pub. I'd be like seven kids and picking up from school and dropping off and things.

31:07He'd done what he can. I suppose we all do the best we can. But they will not have nothing said about him at all. They all adore him. He's done something right because as a dad, if I can have my kids adoring me as adults, I'll be pleased. They adore him. They do everything for him. It's always, oh, get that for dad, do this for dad. But I must say, as he's got older, I noticed as he's got older, so probably from maybe 10 years ago, so he's 65 now 65 66 he's 66 in March so isn't he and he he changed and all of a sudden he went from this like always you know not really being much hands-on to like he just is such a hands-on foster daddy now and I think we all have that ability to change and I think it depends where you are in life yeah where you where you are in life and you know i mean loretta our only granddaughter at the moment we've got another one coming in june like when i mean she absolutely adores him so if i go to pick her up from school she'll come out of school she'll look at me give me the filthiest look disappointed where's granddad and i go what like it's nanny she'll but where's granite she just loves him so he's he's he's he's a very gentle kind man um very laid back whereas i'm like it's obviously worked for him it's worked for you yeah i want to open up the parenting part you know again dad myself navigating social media navigating all the kind of don't do that why have you not done your chores and so on i want to know how you ultimately have had at times a tribe around you how you've got them to help you are they emptying the dishwasher show are they stacking the plates yeah because I think there's a lot to be said about the fact that kids that are left to just be on their own devices not communicating because and if you encourage them to do stuff together I just want to know how you've how you've encouraged that side of parenting well for me I'm coming from both sides I know because I've got quite social media influencers in my house so that's how they earn their money you know it is unfortunately we have to all accept because I don't like it but we have to all accept saying that I don't like it but I'm you know I'm on Instagram and stuff but we have to all accept that the world is changing and it's changing quite rapidly I think sometimes I look back at life and I think how life has changed so much you know and I think sometimes I feel like I'm on a roller coaster and I think oh I just want to stop and get off for a minute you know and have a breather and then I'll get back on again and I think that's what with my children I'm very strict around anything like that so no I mean definitely no no phones until they go secondary school I don't let them on any social media, nothing at all.

34:21With my six birth children, they're not allowed to be on their phones if we're at the dinner table. They're not allowed their phones all Christmas Day, Boxing Day, they have to put their phones away. If we go on holiday, they have to put their phones away. And if the two, which is mainly Lydia and Roma, because they're the influences, they have to be on their phone. They have to go away and do it in another room or away from everybody else. So you're controlling that you're influencing controlling it and controlling it completely and i think every parent has to realize that you're a role model so don't sit there at the table i bet you do this on your phone and your children are looking at you because then don't moan at them if they go on their phones because they're watching what you're doing the same as women if the child's talking to you when they come home from school listen to them don't be on your phone and they're trying to tell you what's happening at school and we've all got busy lives you know my god my life is like 100 miles an hour every day but we have to be positive role models any games or ipads every child that comes to me from other foster carers i say to them do not pack their ipads or any kind of technology leave them at home because when they do come with them and i have had them come with them they are so aggressive when I try and take it off of them or say now that's enough now and we're out all the time anyways I said you don't need to pack it we're going here tomorrow we're out the whole time so we don't need to pack anything and the children are so much happier without them so much happier and I haven't stopped lecturing everyone since I come back because like you said I've just come back from Vietnam and Cambodia backpacking.

36:14And these kids over there have got nothing. They've got no shoes on their feet. They've got plastic bottles with stoning. And they're playing and laughing and running around. And then there's our kids. They've got absolutely everything. And they're sitting there moaning. No, you're not moaning. And when we went out, I took 24 children out with me on Saturday to the bowling at the O2. Not one of them had a phone. Not one of them had an iPad. We went bowling all day. Then we went over to Greenwich Park. Then I took them on the cable cars. And then we got the tube back to Stratford. Then we went to the Olympic Park.

36:57And then I got them all sweets and drinks at the Olympic Park. Imagine you got the pied piper. Yeah, I had to do a head count every time we got on the tube. and they was like this on the tube coming back like that and you know all the foster carers the ones that are that didn't come with the cell phone they went I was absolutely shattered when they come home good that's what they're meant to be shattered yeah you know so we need to I know we have to accept it we have to accept it because that's the way the world is but we need to you can manage it right we need to manage it we need to be conscious of what we're doing him how much of the um that sort of managing and discipline if you like do you bring into the the children at home to do the chores because if you were doing it all i'm not saying you would you'd have no time so actually it's quite it's quite clever from your point of view to delegate and and to but also then the kids are teaching you know work ethic habits and so on that make them much better grown-ups if you like rather than having all done for them i think a happy child is a busy child right and I think we have to prepare I have to one part of my role as well you're preparing for independence um you know it's no good me having this child and then they don't know how to put washing machine on when they leave you know it's about preparing them they've all got they've all got chores you know in the morning if I'm doing breakfast go right come on girls unload the dishwasher so they're unload the dishwasher and yesterday I was out the whole Saturday and Sunday, so the house was like Bomber City yesterday, and I didn't even touch the toy room, and when they come home, I went, no, I'm not doing the toy room, I'm not doing the toy room, you have to all go in and all help tidy up the toy room, because there's stuff everywhere in there.

38:41But that brings a community together, then they might be chatting while they're doing it, and so on. Absolutely, you can hear them, and then they're all competing, and they're always going, now they're like, what should we do now, what should we do, they want to do jobs, so, and I have star of the week, so I say, right, But Star of the Week is the one that I feel has helped me all through the week without me having to ask. Because I don't want to have to say, do you think you could do this? Do you think you can pick up the towel? So if I observe that you're doing things without me asking and you're using your own initiative and you're helping Debbie because you know Debbie's busy, then you'll get Star of the Week and I'll take you out on your own and we'll have a cup of coffee and a cake at the Belchique.

39:23And you can have a hot chocolate with marshmallows. so that so whoever gets star of the week gets a bit of debbie on their own and they absolutely love that that's brilliant absolutely they all fight to be star of the week so they're like hoovering and doing the bed and stuff like that but i've done that with my children i mean some of them are not just there's some children that it's a real battle to get them to do anything i I mean, teenagers, let's face it, no way, Jose. So, you know, I can remember, you know, the arguments I've had with all of my kids where they wouldn't pick up their dirty washing or, you know, they've got fake tan all over the walls or, you know, shower still got all the stuff in.

40:09But you've just got to keep going, keep going, keep going. Sounds like my house. And I remind them now, because two of them, Georgia and Lydia have got their own homes now, but they're spotless, absolutely spotless. It's gone in. And I go to them, and I go, I remember around Lydia's once, this is the truth, I was standing there, and I was eating a cheese roll, and the crumbs went on the front. She went, oh, God. And I went, are you joking? Are you absolutely joking? She started sweeping up around me. so they keep their homes immaculate and also um uh Ellie and Tommy have just got their own flats which are what they've both got flats in Hackney and the same as then you go around and they're spotless this is great for me to know because I think at times I can see particularly my wife uh totally despondent with the sort of teenage behavior and it's exactly as you described the whole fake lashes and can you even see the skirt yeah the fake tan is crazy I mean the skirt the rolling up of the skirt that's gone on 30 years generations as soon as they go out the door they roll it over about 10 times don't they I just go I've told you to roll your skirt down if you're going to go to school like that tell the teacher not to phone me to come and pick you up to take you home because I'm not going to answer the phone.

41:34But that's just what I say. Been there. I'm so conscious of time. There's so many things I'd love to ask you about. I wanted to ask what advice you'd give to someone as a sort of final bit of conversation because you've got so much knowledge, wisdom from all that perspective and maturity of everything you've done. If someone was being inspired by you right now, quite simply, and wanted to do this, what's the one kind of big give feedback that you could sort of give to them? Try not to overanalyse things you know like try not to really like think too much about it I think if you really are thinking about fostering or adoption you know because there's lots of people that hopefully are listening to this podcast that will might think oh I'd quite like to foster or do you know what I'd like to adopt try not to think about it too much because if your heart's telling you that you want to do it don't worry about what your head's saying with fostering you know there's no one's going to hold a gun to your head so even if you do it for a year and you think do you know what this really isn't for me you've tried it nothing ventured nothing gained okay with adoption yes it's a bigger commitment because with fostering if it doesn't work out because all placements all children they call them placements but all children that come to live with you when you're fostering may come to live with you for a week a month six months a year two years three years four years you know it's not forever do you know what I mean it's it's basically to to work out you know first and foremost if they can go back with their families and so when you take that child you're doing the best you can for when they're with you and it might be just you know showing them love it might be teaching them how to explore the world it might be teaching them you know just simple things like sitting at the table eating dinner with you you know it's just real pure simple things that you take for granted that they haven't had.

43:46With adoption, it's a much more final commitment. You'll know if you'll want to adopt because you'll feel like an empty space that you need to fill. And let me tell you, every adoption that I've done, and I've done lots of adoptions, they are thriving with their parents, absolutely thrive him and and I'm a great believer with adoption that sometimes children don't necessarily come from you but they come through you and that child is meant if you're going to do it that child that ends up with you is meant to be with you that that was written for you it's your part of your book you know it might not be the beginning it might not be the ending but it's your part of your individual book so those who are listening to this and they they're thinking about fostering adoption just reach out to your local authorities your local authorities will have open evenings for fostering and they will also have open evenings for adoption and just go along you know it doesn't mean to say that you've got to sign your life away just go along and find out more information be curious but I think you've given so much insight I've learned so much just from this conversation now and you're you are an absolute inspiration you really are I feel so lucky you've made time to be with amongst what's I almost felt exhausted listening to you I need you to get back you know but you just radiate energy thank you so much oh thank you thank you it's been lovely to meet you too I've loved it