Dodge Woodall | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:13戻, I've been looking forward to this. I'm very much looking forward to this John thank you for the invite my absolute pleasure and you weren't doing this you weren't coming on other people's pods and shows until quite recently so I feel really lucky yeah it's one of those things that I've just I've always just said no to over the last sort of five years since podcasting became something my team were constantly pressing me to go on podcast go on this go on that but maybe this year I think might be the year why did you say no? were you busy with your own thing? were you just trying to stay in your kind of your because it was all new to you six years ago you were not doing something that now you've had a hundred million views yeah it's been pretty mad the podcast and going the route that i've gone down i'm creating this you know called it a personal brand which i was very wary of at the start of 2020 and then launching a podcast and going on youtube and going across tiktok and instagram and all this stuff and i was always a person who was sort of was the front man of my business but always was behind the business and then what's happened And really over the last four or five years, I've put myself in front of the business and having a podcast, just so many doors and opportunities are open every day through the DMs.

1:21It's quite wild. It really is. I love that. And I know you love it and you can see it in your eyes when I'm talking to you. But for context, anyone watching and listening, who is Dodge Whittle? He's a London boy, grew up living above pubs in London, got into the events industry very early. 10 years in the nightclub game throwing parties and at peak I had 12 nightclubs from Manchester to Birmingham to Leicester two in London every week it was a very simple business model where we'd take the door money and the club would take the bar money did that for 10 years end up throwing 1 ,500 parties in clubs over a 10-year period in my 20s and then set up a sport and music festival called Bournemouth Sevens, which is now been running for 18 years, still independently owned by myself and my wife.

2:09And along that journey, there were many, many stories. And then we built a sportswear brand that went global and we exited that in 2018. Serial entrepreneur, right? That's all I've known from a young kid. Yeah. From a young kid. Always doing deals from young, I guess, learning from your dad and people around you. Yeah, well, my dad was a boy done good from East London, wasn't educated. My mum was an entrepreneur boy, a girl done good, very pretty lady from Manchester. They met in the casinos in the 70s and then they got into the pub game and I grew up living above pub with a nightclub next door.

2:42So you see lots of stuff that kids shouldn't see. And I'm around lots of wild people and some entrepreneurs and people wheeling, dealing. And there's doorman on the door. And you've got a two-bed flat upstairs. And you've got two Alsatians and a Doberman and a cockatoo called Bubbles because we're all West Ham fans. And then we had a pet monkey. And this was just the 80s for you, you know. Proper stories. Yeah. It's just the way we grew up. Have you ever been employed? Never. A lot of people we both meet that have gone to the entrepreneur have had that sort of... Because your grounding, your education was watching, listening from such a young age that you then backed yourself.

3:23And I think that's the key thing. You've got great confidence and you're prepared to take a risk, which has probably given you a sleepless night or two along the way. But you backed yourself to take the opportunity. You've never actually gone and taken the paycheck from someone to pay you. Never. Never, ever had a job in my life. It's from a young other. my trade has been going since the age of 10 earning money since the age of 10 whether it's selling tickets to the nightclub next door whether it's you know the tickets my dad was pub was a feeder pub so it was packed it was two floors pub and then we'd sell i'd go and buy tickets for a pound off the manager next door come back sell the tickets saturday night for two pound but everyone would get queue jump to the nightclub next door so it was constant i was constantly earning money as a kid because i was around it the whole time and you know and those numbers have just changed I'm still doing the same thing 30 years later, but those numbers have changed from a pounder man.

4:11My mum was taught me pounder man to, you know, for our festival now, 100 quid to 500 quid a ticket. And yeah, it's been it's been it's been a real good, fun, exciting journey. But I don't know any different, John. No, and I love that about you. And I think it's worth it's not often I can say this, but we've lived within sort of three roads of each other at one point. I remember dropping the kids off at nursery and you'd be running past and we had mutual friends that knew each other well and you were sort of loosely connected almost like sort of but to then get to know you in the last few years you know it's been a it's a key time to it because bormer sevens is huge it's the biggest event that you know um down our way if you like let alone then probably nationally and you'll tell me sort of from a global point of view where that sits as a festival now yeah you've evolved that you know you've built that as as an entrepreneur but you were forced to pivot in 2020 so however many years into to scaling that and building that and i want to sort of for anyone watching listening open that whole thing up where you know clearly that must have been a really scary time money pumped in and then i'm into cookie cutting knowing that that was a proven concept but now actually i've got to skip a year and what am i going to do and of course that has led to you doing the podcast it just taught me through that period where you knew you had to cancel it and you've got to then pivot that was crazy we launched the festival in 2008 in the financial crisis and we grew the business from 4 000 people to 30 000 people in the field 400 competing teams tv crews 12 festival arenas 100 djs etc we've built that massive over the years it's wild it's you know it's crazy and um and 2020 came and obviously boris said festivals can't happen and everything's got to shut down and I was so excited I was so excited because I can get that entrepreneur I just think of a new business now as pandemic proof so you embraced it I loved it I loved it I loved it I loved it people around me going you're mad or like we lost a lot of money that year don't get me wrong but I loved it because I was back I was thinking I need to create a business that's online and you got comfortable you know that whole expression that the comfort zone dreams go to die because you got something that was proven and you were just you were tweaking it and so on it forced you back against the wall yeah back against the wall and i love back against the wall and i love risk like i love risk my wife doesn't like risk whatsoever but i love risk i love get i love risking my own stuff i'm not going to bookies and whatever but risk my own stuff and yeah 2020 came i was like right i need to think of something new so literally for three four months i was on a computer going what can i do i need a new business i need a new business what can i do search search research research and then come up the idea of one of the members of staff was like dodgy you need to do a podcast you know so many people why don't you create a podcast what's a podcast well genuinely i did not know not many people in the uk really knew in 2020 what a podcast was and came up the idea of um creating a podcast and five years later it's turned into an absolute beast and yeah it's it's been it's been a we're just completing our fifth year now of podcasting you're a veteran i've done 330 odd episodes now congrats yeah and it's loved right the view the viewership says it all but what I love is knowing you personally and there's a there's a much sort of bigger and closer community around us now with the connection into Jack which we'll talk about in a minute I love Jack by the way I know I know and I love that I love the way that's all come together but that love for you and it's almost that kind of the guy that just hasn't changed from a mate's point of view or a a business person there's no that the conversation you have with people on your pod is a very curious guy that's genuine interested in getting answers out of people that he's chosen to talk with that's basically it isn't it yeah yeah invitation only absolutely what's the story can i learn from you yeah yeah people come down people travel flying from different countries or fly come down whether they're on the uk come down to our studio you know when i first started to come to bournemouth right but they want to come if you think about it if you think you're down in bournemouth and pool you've got water below you so everyone's north of you or coming from different countries and people will make the effort and come down and come on the podcast because we put on a really good show you know and you asked the thing for me because i've listened to countless listened and watched the countless episodes you know you didn't come from a broadcasting background no journalist it goes back to backing yourself but you didn't change you didn't try well i wanted to ask you that did you actually get any training did you nothing straight into a chat because i'm interested and then when did you realize you were good at it And what I mean by that is, I guess it was a passion project.

8:44And going back to almost that black book, the connections, you'd built up brilliant connections already through the tournament, the festival, and just being someone that's sort of well-connected. But was there a moment where you're like, oh, actually, traction's coming, people are giving me good feedback, I'm going to go. The weird thing is, John, it's a really good question, but the weird thing is when you're doing a podcast, for the first two years, we were just Apple and Spotify. So no one could leave comments. so you're doing a podcast but no one was leaving comments we weren't on youtube you're learning on the job right we were learning on the job but people could only leave a review on apple and people don't really leave reviews but we start getting all these reviews coming through like oh my god we're onto something here this is pretty cool and it was the eighth episode i was eight episodes in i got a phone call from one of the producers of uh uh i'm a celebrity get me out of here saying dodge can we have a chat i was like fine what what's this about and they were like they came down so come down and come down and see me and i ended up they said we'd like you to be the co-host of a new show i was like okay i'm only eight episodes in we'd like to be the co-host of the harry redknapp show with harry i'm like where do i sign bam where do i sign and this all happened so quick you know a week later i was interviewing piers morgan me harry was that quick it was that quick the week after me harry sir roge stewart the week after eddie hearn week after that frank The list just went on.

10:35years ago because like you i'd never heard of a podcast going to 20 i was i was so busy yeah life was mental free and now i'm and i i i think you're a key inspiration in probably why i'm sat here i was like actually you know there's so many questions you're asking from a point of view of like just i'd like to know the answer to that rather than someone in your ear as a producer or don't ask her about this ask her about that it all came from a natural curiosity and then And the Harry Redknapp show didn't carry on as that. So you then took that on because you clearly worked out you loved it at that point.

11:09I loved it. Because I know from the chats we've had off camera that you do this until the day you die, right? I'm doing podcasts until the day I die. Fact. Like, I love it. I just love people. You remember being a kid around adults the whole time? You're in a pub where a pub's getting police raided or something's happening or a DJ's playing or there's a big fancy dress party. It was constant around adults. So I learned your emotion. We didn't know what emotional intelligence was back then, but you knew, you had peripheral vision, you knew what was going on, you sensed energy, you could feel energy, you could feel amazing people.

11:41Remember all these people, thousands of people coming into your pub, you know? And then the feeder for the nightclub. So I saw everything there was, and it was a wonderful upbringing, a very different upbringing, very, very different to anyone I've ever met. And it's something I would never change without Shadow Vidal. I love that, though, because, you know, go back to upbringing and how that shaped you and yet we all go to school and we learn how to use a bunsen burner and algebra and all stuff that you know quite frankly we're never going to use again you learn life and your intuition your gut instinct your empathy is off the scale you know i i i know that's a key reason why you do so well with your pod because you you are vibing off people um and you've got unbelievable energy yourself on that what do you do to kind of prioritize your both your physical and your mental because you're clearly fit you clearly do stuff to keep fit and does that help you with the mindset 100 so what do you do part of life every day get up go smash a gym session jump in the sauna like a morning routine damn you're done up early up i'm all up up early because i'm juggling three companies and lots of staff and i run everything off whatsapp no emails no nothing like that so i'm on it but you can go into the gym and you could have something small that could be bugging you you come out of the gym those small things that are bugging aren't there anymore.

12:58You know, so the endorphin and the dopamine and everything that's getting clicked around your brain, bam, you come alive. And when you come alive, you attract people around you who want to be around you and who you want to be around too. That's so true. It's really simple. It's really simple. I know people on socials try to overcomplicate this thing and they get up at four o 'clock and they write a journal and they have a smoothie at 4.15 and they... I'm not complicated. Get up, smash a gym session, feel good. The main thing for you is consistency. 100%. I can relate to that. And good food. You know, I'm not into fast cars and watches.

13:32I love good food. I love people. I love long lunches. I like being around good people. And I'm surrounded by really good people. And then, of course, by then doing the pod, you've given yourself a perfect excuse to grow that network constantly. Yeah. And have you grown that all through referrals? All through referrals. Love that. All through referrals. Not one email sent. Not one agent spoke to. No one paid. 300 odd people all coming down. on the podcast and then we're launching a new one called Straight Talking Founder, which is being launched in September, October, which is I'm getting founders, startups, creators coming on and telling their story.

14:07Yeah, because I mean, going back to the guy that's never had a job, I know entrepreneurship and kind of founder life is super important to you. And it's a really nice way of us having we connected to put next to each other by the awesome Francesca James ideas. Francesca James, lovely. Puts us next to her because she thinks we'll get on, doesn't know we actually knew each other. But what's interesting about that, and I think it's worth championing that, is entrepreneurship and sort of connection. Although we did know each other, we actually had more time together at that dinner than we'd made time for outside of other conversations.

14:38I think that whole bringing people together and anyone that does that, you through the pod. If you're a podcaster, you have the most amazing connections with people. And at a time where people are being pushed away from people because everyone's stuck in their phones, this is the real time to get back to connection and i think connection is what's going to win love that i really do believe that and it's winning at the moment i love that i live by that and there's a there's a mental health connotation that you know the whole lack of authenticity the lack of being present going into your phones you know battling that with two teenage daughters now not to the point where they're um scrolling and so on they they've been shown not we all do it This is a scary thing.

15:17Well, the most addictive... It's scary. If you look at the amount of hours you're on, like if I'm running all my business off WhatsApp, then your team's uploading to YouTube, then they're uploading to everything else going on. You're signing off designs. You've got your calendar on there. The amount of time you're on it, it's become an addiction. And I think a high percentage of the population are addicted to their phones. Now, if you're addicted to your phone, then there's no nightclubs to go to, or no bars and restaurants are closing down all around the country. you're in more love with your phone look at there's a brilliant clip of some photography of this couple and they're laying in bed but they've taken the phone out of the hand and it's just showing they're on the sofa like that they're in bed like that they're in the car at the traffic lights but like going for a phone it's just to show you how addicted the population is to their phones i'm guilty of that i mean we're all guilty the challenge i've got with it is you You're paying someone, you're booking something, you're checking something.

16:19Guests coming in, you're trying to get them in a diary. You're juggling 70 guests. Once you come in, you've got 30 in the bank. It's all become the phone. It's constant, yeah. And the danger, of course, is then by default, an Insta thing pops up, dodges new pods out, and I'm interested, I'm curious. I go in, and the smartest people that are fighting for our attention work for all these social media people, which you and I know from conversations we've had with other people. But that's the key. The key is to become a creator, not a consumer. and I enjoy being a creator rather than a doomed consumer because you'll you'll waste hours you'll do two three hours flicking through you go what am I doing I've learned nothing from there I've had a little dopamine that people are caught up in consuming it's a very dangerous place to be yeah it really is it's all about um creator and content and the right content jack yes j-a-q yeah I love I love the whole way we came together I'm going to name Matt Corica played golf with you played golf at Remedy Oak talked about it knew that I spent a bit of time in talking about it and I was wanting to tell the world about it.

17:13This is pre-launch, pre-revenue. I looked at my WhatsApp last night. When I chose my, it was November 2022. Which is when it was literally when it launched. So there was no revenue. So going back to the risk element as well, which we're both aligned on, right? I committed April 22. And I committed time and investment as well. But it was like, how can I help shape? So it's a lovely culmination of a conversation about a business from an entrepreneurial point of view that we're watching evolve, if you like. But that sort of mental health connotation is a social media platform that's giving answers from top doctors, specialist consultants and from people with lived experience about mental health.

17:53But in a very aspirational, inspirational and educational rather than, and this is where I wanted to go with it, the whole lack of authenticity with certain information given on TikTok, misinformation and so on. But I want to know what made you get involved with that because it's one thing connecting you in, but you've got it so quick and you don't normally do that. so you're very self-sufficient i'm i never invest no i never invest in other people get opportunities we all get opportunities you don't invest in i've said no no no no no no no for years this came along spoke to yourself danny gray come in and did a podcast i was like i was there i'm in can i get involved in this i want to invest in it i was in straight away it's a big moment for me that yeah because smart people yeah of which you've now met many alex back has been on your pod i loved loved that conversation you know it's that whole like actually you know it goes back to community and smart people shaping something that's far more than anything i could have i could have done i just i just believe in the mission you know make a billion people plus their mental health better what a great fulfillment i think to be involved in and as you know i'm enjoying shaping and creating but i love the fact that you've got involved in as an entrepreneur that backs entrepreneurs, but more gives them a voice, mentoring.

19:09And we should come on to that, actually. I've noticed a lot more of your content at the outside of the pod is wanting to encourage and help and be there in what can be very lonely and dark times. I want to expand on that because I can't imagine you having a bad day. You've got such a positive vibe and you've got that sort of consistency that works for you. But what is the message you're giving those entrepreneurs that are in the trenches? They're battling to get funding. they're battling to get their business out of that sort of startup phase. I can only give what I do. So I can only give my experience of what goes through my mind and how I've worked my way through 30 odd years of being an entrepreneur.

19:44And it's about being aggressively patient. You've got to be patient in business. You know, if you can break the back of a business in a thousand days, you're doing really well three years. Most businesses go bust. If you can get to five years and break the back of a business, it takes time. but because of instant gratification on everything people are seeing bang bang bang social media again oh yeah i'm here i've done this i've done that i'm on my laptop in bali is this horrible sort of um pretend that everyone's smashing it and they're not so being aggressively patient being aggressively patient is really key but showing urgency be a today person have self-belief you know and there's a lot of people out there who don't have self-belief and they're jumping into entrepreneurship and it's a dangerous game it's a really dangerous game if you knew 90 of entrepreneurs fail going to business you've got to remember some people are putting 100 grand in 50 grand whatever it is to them 70 grand some people might put in 250 grand if you're stuck in your business for two three years and you realize it's not working you're going to be in serious amount of debt then someone's going to come in and buy the shares of you push you out and you're away you're gone and you've got nothing to show for it it's a dangerous game people leaving there if you're in a good job and you're earning good money sometimes that's a good place to be entrepreneurship isn't for everyone it's been made fashionable now apparently celebrities that are being almost um suggested to become a founder because it's the cool things start your gym brand and so on i mean you know they've obviously got people around them right but that's not that's not proper entrepreneurship where the buck stops with that you know it's the risk is the risk you know i've gambled the family house i'm putting on a festival i know what risk the serious risk is that you could lose your family house by putting a party on in the field called a sport and music festival called Bournemouth 7th that's serious serious risk and I've done it a number of times but when this when this opportunity come up Jack I was in straight away I was in six figures I'm in for this and I've just gone back in again after having the conversation with Alex Packham who came up who's now the CEO of of Jack um and we had a wonderful episode with him i literally listened to it yesterday i've got it straight away and i've gone back in again you know i firmly believe in this because my world has been putting smiles on people's faces and bringing people together via the power of events or podcasting over the last 30 years and i'm seeing jack is exactly the same but to do with mental health bringing people together and putting trying to put smiles on people's faces that they're not alone whether you are stressed whether you are suicidal whether you've got depression whatever it may be you know we're doing a really good cause here and i just love everything about jack yeah a lot of passion when you talk there and and the the dodge that i know i had a chat with you when we first properly reconnected i was having a really tough time yeah and you picked up on a big time again that intuition and so it probably was quite obvious to see but um in context i was crystallizing really big losses on some property stuff that was all going south whilst being super excited about Jack and so on.

22:43But back to you, it doesn't feel like you've had what I'm going to say is a sort of a, in any way, sort of dark days. You know, you might have tough experiences. We're talking before we started a film about having scars. I'm sure you've got plenty of things. Loads of scars. Exactly. But you keep smiling. You've got a mega smile and positive. So when you talk with so much passion and for mental health, a lot of people that I know potentially have got involved in Jack or do things to help others have had their own really difficult times. They've had really sort of traumatic things to deal with. Have you?

23:14Or is it just a really heartfelt, proper good bloke that wants to give back, if you like, and help others? I can only go what other people think. I can't really say that to myself. But I love, I get up every day because I love what I do. And I have done all my life. I've never gone in and woken up a day going, I'm going to work. Or I'm going to work on something that I don't enjoy. it's events it's festivals it's sport it's media it's podcasting like i've created all this just off ideas you know and exited one of the companies i'm in the middle of an exit at the moment of one of the other companies we set up in a pandemic online training for events where people buy a course and i've got 40 of the world's leading industry experts in from glaston breed to olympics to london fashion week and they've all pre-recorded and it's pretty much like jack but for the events industry and how we can get, you know, in the events industry, they lost a quarter of a million people in the events industry in the pandemic.

24:06People in the events industry, you can't wait four years to go and do a degree. You know, we want to get people in there. So we've created this online course that people can do in three months and get them straight in via my contacts to get them a job. I know people in my social network without them knowing, I know where their kids have come through and done that course and set them up. Brilliant. Proper entrepreneurial vision to do that. And then the network, you were the guy that went and got the guy from Glastonbury and everywhere else put it together. One thing that I know has been a constant in our conversations is bringing...

24:36that you've got that vision, you've got that sort of entrepreneur-led side of things, and then you bring Fleur into the conversation. Been together 20 years? Yeah, 22 years. Yeah, and I love the fact that you know, in any conversations we've had that sort of involve business and decision-making, you bring her in and you're very much a team. So that risk-taking element, is there a yin and yang 100 % she doesn't like risk she's a beautiful beautiful human being from wales who's into animals plants wildlife life kind had a beautiful upbringing in the countryside in wales and then she's married a promoter from london so we're totally opposite opposites but both went to she's sports mad as well international athletes she went to loughborough sports university that's where we met and we've just got we've got a wonderful relationship she's a she's a the biggest my biggest supporter and if you're in a relationship and you're risking and you're going out yeah no one's there there's an entrepreneur no one's going to promote you no one's going to talk no you've got to promote yourself you've got to promote your businesses you've got to be you've got to be obsessed you've got to be so passionate and obsessed to make something work and if you're obsessed then you enjoy it you won't burn out if you're obsessed and you don't enjoy it, you're going to wake up one morning and go, I don't want to carry this on.

25:56I don't care if I lost a quarter of a million quid. I don't want to carry it on. That's why you have to really pick the right business to go into. I love that. You know, and yeah. So you're podcasting until you literally can't talk anymore. I'm done. I'm podcasting. But you are someone that keeps evolving. So like Bournemouth Sevens started off as a rugby sevens tournament. Now it's a massive festival. Have you got a vision for where you want to go with the podcasting? Because at the heart of it, it's Dodge having amazing conversations is that we all want to know the sort of the answers to the questions and the people you bring on are interesting but do you have any sort of uh grand vision and almost like some something you'd like to achieve no i thought you'd say that it's all about the journey all about the journey it's who you become on the journey and it's who you become on the journey when that in your 20s doing night clubs and all those parties every week and managing teams in different cities with flyers and posters back then it was all marketing flyers and posters you know you've got to remember i was on the streets i've taken really good money in my 20s i'd be on the streets flyering as well and i'd end up speaking there was a period i must have spoke to over a quarter of a million people and you've got 10 seconds to make sure they're coming to your nightclub in your student night then that night club and that each person is worth three pounds to you there's so much of their sales influence we've got 2 000 people coming to your nightclub every week and you've got 12 of them every week around the country and you're taking the door money you're talking to see it was a serious serious business and no one was doing it we were the pioneers because those big mega nightclubs were closed midweek we're like we'd like to do student nights in your club you know this was year 1998 to 2008 so there's a great opportunity being the pioneer of that then we moved into the sport and music festival no one was doing sport and music it was either dubai sevens or hong kong sevens and we created bournemouth sevens but i said with all my contacts in the sporting world and the promoting world.

27:42Why don't we see if we can amalgam it's sports and music. And now it's a big sports and music festival. It's the same with the online events course. It's the same with the sportswear brand that we did called Viper 10. I was seeing that all our competitors were Canterbury, Samurai, all these different brands. They were getting all their kit. They might do a hundred grand deal. They get all the kit from China. It takes three months on the water to get back to England to land, to give to the universities or the rugby teams or the netball teams and i was like you know i need to get in contact china to get in contact india pakistan turkey all these factories taking too long i found one lithuania oh my god four weeks landed on your door four weeks so this was a this was a g it was a fantastic business model and then we end up exiting that after in 2018 we launched that in 20 uh the idea was 2010 and we sold that in 2018 and then we hit the pandemic and the pandemic is what podcast that's what a pivot what a bit and it's a massive entrepreneur trait right you know like there's plenty plenty of people in your position of having built up the festival to what is that would have gone i don't know what to do now and it's all about next year and you know you didn't do that and i love the fact that in the earlier part of the conversation you said you got excited about it you embraced it massively never waste a good crisis and I mean that with respects but whenever there's a big crisis somewhere don't waste the opportunity a lot of people fold and fold over and put their hands over their ears and they don't want to see what's going on you've got to grab these opportunities while they can because they come around they come around in 2001 with the twin tails they come around in 2008 with the global recession and the financial crisis glass half full way of looking at it they come around in 2020 with a pandemic no one knew what a pandemic was that was the time to act there's lots of people maybe in the garden just drinking thinking fun or or scared or the fear like there's no fear you know i brought up with no fear and there's no fear and we love risk and so your relationship so no fear embrace risk so there must be countless things you've tried and failed at but you don't see them as a failure you see them as oh that didn't work but i learned this from it and so on that's what i'm gonna i don't failure is not even my vocabulary it's not even in my vocabulary whatsoever i'm constantly tweaking you only fail when you stop a business and have to fold it and walk away from it that's the time when i in my how i would describe it it might be a failure you go okay we had a big failure there but someone's failed and they've gone and set up a new business and they've probably been successful with a new business but we've not touched wood we've not failed because i've never stopped i'm tweaking tweaking tweaking i won't be beaten i can be kicked i can be punched like You'd have competitors coming at different angles at you, trying to make parts of your business and this and that.

30:30Bring it on. There's no such thing as failure until you stop. I love that. We've built five businesses over the last 30 years. One of them is still going, 18 years independently owned. I just want to make a point on that. Independently owned for a festival. Most of them get bought up by Live Nation or AEG after two or three years. We're still independently owned, and we still got the freedom to do everything we want. It's so important. It's so important. And you can feel that. I missed it this year. I was in Ibiza. I was gutted as you kindly invited me, and I would have loved it. But I remember going back to a few years ago when it was still relatively new.

31:07I remember going with Adam Lallana when he was like 16 years old, and it was just like this is becoming something far bigger. There's an element there. And congrats, by the way. I think it's really important you make that point. and and you're you're very grounded and very humble with the success that you are are having and have had sitting here now how would you define success freedom freedom to do what you want whenever you want that's success having an amazing wife an amazing little boy freedom to create no one owns me no one's telling me you got to be here no one owns me and tells me what i've got to do you know that freedom i've always had freedoms i've never known any different and i've always been an entrepreneur so i've never known any different so when people go oh it's really tough isn't it it's really lonely i'm like i don't know any different it's just the norm for me i think i think it's fascinating to talk with someone that's literally never been employed but has been so busy at all times the kid that was doing those deals buying for pounds selling for two learning the whole thing and learning sales on the job you must have been formidable in the streets for those flights.

32:13Perfect. Lock on. Talk about it. Lasers. 12 people there. You're thinking 12 people or 10 people at three quid they're coming into your place. You've got 10 seconds to turn around to get them to your place. You've got to be lovely and bubbly and nice. You've not lost that. The reasons why. No. It's the same Jack. There's no complacency. If you got excited about something, you did it with Jack. I mean, actually, you get excited for something and you're going to have a conversation and they're going to get completely caught up with your energy. I'm super grateful to you to make time because back to your freedom to do what you want.

32:39You made time to talk to me today. It's my pleasure. and how does it feel how does it feel it's different being on the other side i'm normally the one there jumping away with questions and being furious but it feels nice in fact it's probably going to inspire me to maybe go on some more podcasts i hope so because i've got i feel like i've got a lot to give to entrepreneurs whether you are an ex-sportsman retired going into entrepreneurship you're going to be lost for four or five years or whether you're an 18 year old or whoever you are i feel like i can give a lot of real real honest raw advice it's nothing written from a book there's nothing read from a book it's just built building businesses and startups and and knowing that i love the chaos because when you do a startup there is a chaos period for three years and i and i love it i know it's come in where a lot of people can fold under that chaos because they just think it might be just them but every entrepreneur goes through the chaos period period until you break the back of it and then you go okay we're on to the next chapter now what's next i heard you talking about that with alex packham on your pod yesterday And I'm one of the few people that goes around saying that myself.

33:45I thrive in that whole, because that's the ducking and diving bit. And I must thrive off that risk as well. And I've included all sorts of property development and stuff that's high risk. But lifestyle business is so important to me. I've got a lifestyle business. I don't want hundreds of staff. I don't want an empire. A lifestyle business that's really manageable, that the people who you work with are part of your team. People who have been with me for 11 years, 10 years, 9 years. give them the freedom to make mistakes, give them the freedom to be entrepreneurs within the business, like an entrepreneur, but they've got no financial risk.

34:17And let them have fun because we're in a real fun, we're lucky to have businesses that are fun, essentially. You look after people as well. I'm going to name Josh at this point because I've been lucky enough to come in when Danny did his pod. There's lots of them. And you've looked after him. That's a bright guy that could learn from you and then go off and do something else. But I want them to go off and do something else. I encourage them all to go off and do something else there's only so long you can keep people for whether it's 3 years, 7 years, 9 years, 11 years they learn, like I always say if you are wanting to be a successful entrepreneur go and work with an entrepreneur for 2 years you'll learn more in the 2 years or 6 months you will do in any corporate job for 15-20 years it's an apprenticeship you're going to learn more there than if you did a degree in something and then you're not going to get the job 100 % 100 % Well thank you I don't want this to end I'm conscious of time And I I looked forward to this We first talked about it Maybe a couple of years ago And you were like I remember you were like Why would I go on someone else's So I feel really lucky And you should go on other Because you're good value Dodge Yeah okay And you're You know You've made time to talk to me today So thank you My pleasure Good man John Appreciate it Well done Cheers mate Thank you