Fatima Whitbread MBE | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:13Fatima, I've been so looking forward to this. Thank you for joining me. No, thank you. It's lovely to be able to share this platform with you. Well, tell me, who is Fatima Whitbread? That's a very interesting question because it's one that I always start with my keynote speaking. Who is Fatima Whitbread? Abandoned as a baby, some would say left to die in a flat. A neighbour heard a baby cry and hadn't seen anybody coming or going in a couple of days. So she called the police, she banged the door down, rescued the baby, which was myself. And then I was taken into hospital and recovered for seven months from malnutrition and nappy rash.

0:53Pleased to say I got over the nappy rash, John. And during that seven months, I was then made a ward of court, which saw me incarcerated in the care system for the next 14 years of my life. Now, that 14 years was hugely impactful. and trauma is very much a thing that young people when they live in the care system suffer from when they haven't got what they call unconditional love trauma sets in so abandonment neglect all these issues that happen also I experienced a huge amount of abuse physical sexual and emotional abuse so I would say my emotional needs were rarely met and having sort of lived in the care system for 14 years, that in itself, you know, set me up in a way to feel what has life to offer?

1:54You know, what is there out there that I can do to get myself out of this dark place? But if I was to track back, and as a youngster, nobody ever sat me down and discussed it with me and explained to me, you know, that there was anybody out there for me. I didn't have any visits or birthday cards to indicate there was a family out there. And I can remember playing in the front room, which faced the car park in this children's home. And anybody that came into the car park would always say, is that my mummy coming to collect me? And this is very true of a lot of children that live in the care system.

2:29They fear for what might happen to them. They find it very difficult to process things. And of course, they trap themselves in their mind. And in that emotional stress that they go through and the trauma, we know that 27 % of 14-year-olds, by the time they're 14-year-olds in the living care system, suffer with mental health issues, which is quite high standard. There must be a lack of hope as well. For those 14 years, you've got no role models. You've got no love. You've got no emotional support. So where did you get your hope from? What kept you going, if you like? I don't know. I mean, obviously, I do know.

3:10I mean, obviously, when I moved to my second children's home, which was when I was five years old, I was told quite out of the blue, Fatima, be downstairs here, sit in the reception area. Your biological mum's coming to collect you with your social worker to move you to a new children's home where you'll be living with your half-brother and sister. and I kind of thought well what's this all about no I didn't know I had a mother or or half brothers and sisters and why am I being moved from the only home that I ever know this is my family the children are my my family you know that's it was a scary moment and I think this is the problem in the care system today it still goes on nobody explains anything to these young children and also children are often moved up to 30 or 40 times in their lifetime in the care system.

4:05That's massive. Yeah, which is very unstabilising and actually it sets them up for further failure. It certainly damages them. It must create huge trust issues as well, right? And also, yeah, they're not able to build relationships properly. Their education is damaged in many respects because they're moved from borough to borough. So the curriculum is different. And stability is what they really need, the love and security of a good family. And that's very hard to find in the care system today. Foster carers do a good job, but they're far and few between. And a lot of them need support as well with regard to trauma, to understanding trauma.

4:48because a lot of young people, as I say, suffer with trauma. And that can be misunderstood for behavioural problems. And that follows them around quite a lot. I find that occasionally we hear about some of the problems that our young people have with criminal records. And I think that's all about a lack of education, again, within the system of policing. If they understood trauma, they'd understand these young people and would be able to circumnavigate them into the right areas. Instead of giving them a criminal record then which follows them around and makes it even more difficult for them to get jobs later on.

5:28Because there's prevention there, right? If they're educated. And actually there's the children and the adolescents and then there's the adults themselves. There's a mismatch, isn't there? Absolutely. There's children that haven't got any support, don't know how to behave. That's right. Then they don't conform to societal rules, do something that's wrong, get put in the prison system. or, you know, they didn't know. Well, prisons, as we know, 30 % of under 21-year-olds that are in our prisons today have either come from or crossed the path of the care system. And a lot of the problem today is that we don't have, like, community-based events.

5:59Long gone are those days where they could actually engage with their community in the events. It all costs too much money. They're not able to engage and find good role models, skill themselves up and eventually find apprenticeships, jobs where they can move into and build good social network around them within the area that they live. And this is a really tough call. And for a lot of young children, it's significantly challenging in the UK today. and so that's why I myself are calling for fundamental change and Fatima's UK campaign which is what I'm the founder of. Obviously through the campaign we try to engage our children in programs and the power of sport arts and technology programs but the fundamental change which I'm calling for is for safer, healthier, happier tomorrows and, you know, enabling to put these young people on a human unstoppable path to reach in their goals so that they can live their dreams.

7:14In doing so, that would help to break that cycle and, you know, enable them to build a proper foundation for their future families too and future generations beyond ours you know if we don't start looking at addressing these issues now and how we can best improve the care system sector I'd hate to think what society is going to be like because all these young people if through working with them from an early age will help shape who and what they become and also determines what society ends up. Absolutely which goes back to education right you know there's education and actually if you know there's a financial negative if you like a number of these children that don't need to be you know ultimately in in the system at the taxpayer's expense if you like.

8:05Yeah. If you could get involved from a preventative point of view um you're benefiting society you're stopping so much trauma and and kind of pain for you know what you've been through right you you come through from a lived experience so you have that perspective and maturity to look back to know what needs to change yeah if you could change one thing there's probably a huge sort of change you're trying to implement but what's the what's the key thing that's broken that needs to change asap well we've um since working on the campaign summit which is this april uh 23rd and 4th of april at the guild hall and it's a massive call of arms, solidarity really to change the history of our care system by bringing collaboration and partnership together.

8:52Ideally to share good practice and knowledge through the whole spectrum of a young child's life. From the minute they come into the care system, throughout the care system and out and beyond, what we're trying to do is eradicate silos because we know there is some good stuff out there, but they don't communicate. So the biggest single problem is nobody knows what's out there. So as a charity, we've become facilitators to bring together that collaboration and partnership of which I've used my lived experience and my Olympic platform to engage with and interact with the public, also with banging on doors at minister's doors and organisations, stakeholders, local authorities, directors of social workers, county lines, probation, homelessness.

9:47We've got Lord John Bird who's coming along to our summit to talk about homelessness because when a young child, and I always say the corporate parent, which is the government and local authorities, they have a moral duty and responsibility of care to make sure these young people are safe. Now, at 18, they say to these young people, here's£2 ,000, you've got one point of contact, only twice, and to have a nice life. Now, if you've got families of your own, and I'm assuming you do, just think about that. Would you push your child out at the age of 18 and say, off you go? Because 33 % of them, you know, within the first two years fall, you know become homeless and I always say what do you want you want that fence at the top of the cliff or the ambulance at the bottom we've got to do more to secure their future you know it's not sustainable they don't have I mean as I say mental health issues by the time they're 14 they find it very difficult with their academic studies only a third of them compared to their peers go on to further education they cannot find work and particularly if they're homeless they've not got a roof over their head.

11:04That's a virtual impossibility. So what do you do? How do you combat this? The answer is to bring the collaboration together. Let's thrash this out and let's make sure that we look to see where it is that we can A, set the white paper by harnessing the power of one voice in numbers. We've got 110 collaborators. We've got 760 stakeholders each day on each day of the summit. And by bringing and harnessing together that collaboration, you then get them to sign up to a pledge of eradicating silos so they work together. And then obviously the white paper also that we put to the government by that collaboration will bring force to bear on the government to make changes, changes, which is one is to up the age from 18 to 25 year olds.

12:01Very doable in my view. And it should be, you know, nobody in my friendship group that have got children push their kids out at 18. My son's just left. He's 27. And, you know, that's the normal age. The average age is 27 to 30, because even they find it difficult with a bank of mum and dad, nans and granddads, aunts and uncles to get a foot on the ladder. Now, bearing in mind most conventional families, when they have their children, they get involved with supporting them through their friendships, through their schooling, through their careers. And these young people, they don't have that. So it's vitally important that that collaboration and the pressure to bear on the government will make sure that they take their duty of care much more seriously than they have done in the previous years.

12:55it's such an important mission you're on i'm just just listening to that there's what you're trying to achieve and then there's so much that you as i'm going to call you fats i've listened to so many podcasts and programs and i've been called worse and the facts is leading the charge you're a role model you are the engine you're bringing these entities together you're shouting about the trauma and the the sort of the the experiences that you have that need to change how important is that kind of role model scenario to you and particularly youngsters looking to someone that's come through it and trying to affect change.

13:29Clearly we need to amplify the children's voices and young people's voices so no one better than someone that's had lived experience and using my Olympic platform to do that which makes it a formidable you know force to confront the government or ministers and say, we need change. Why not? Because at the end of the day, it's very doable. And, you know, there is a lot of good stuff out there, but nobody knows about it. It's an opportunity to also celebrate the tireless work that they do as well on the ground floor level, which is, you know, the paid and unpaid workforce, which often they get the kick in the crutch too, have done over the years.

14:17But they probably haven't got a lot of support, right? It just feels like there's a huge undertow of not enough support funding, which is, of course, what you're trying to change. Support and funding. Funding is a key word because there's a very big squeeze on out there at the moment and everybody's buying for the same funds. And it's very difficult to get that kind of funding. And I always say there's two types of charities. There's the headliners and there's the frontliners. The headliners are the big charities that scoop up everything and society puts into it. And then there's the frontliners that work on a day-to-day basis, which look after your family within your communities.

14:57Now, if those charities struggle to get the funds, they're going to go under. And many of you are seeing that happening now. So who's looking after your loved ones on a day-to-day basis? You know, they're the ones that you should be supporting. And I advocate that if you're going to do fundraising, go to your local communities, support your local charities, because they're the ones that are going to be there from start to finish. The bigger charities, I think they do a wonderful job, but equally they have big overheads. So a lot of the funds that they bring in go on administrative costs. And a lot of it also goes back into fundraising.

15:38so there's arguments to and for and against with with funding and i experienced a lot of that myself because i've raised over 230 000 in order to get the summit up running which hasn't been easy no again using my platform and using pressure to bear with my lived experience where did the there's so much you've achieved you know mbe sports personality of the year winning world championships it feels to me like there's there's always been a journey rather than a destination for you and and that legacy side of things you're building right now but to just survive was probably one key driver for you to then thrive so I think sport was a key thing for you you know and I again I know your story through you know showing an interesting sport to then seeing a javelin for the first time to then look where that took you but also they're giving you that discipline that focus and purpose if you'd like to follow that where where does that fit into your world now and I'm I'm I'm sort of asking that in a retrospective point of view of children finding purpose and hope to be able to pursue something well I engage with a lot of young children all the time through the campaign phantom's campaign we do the power of sports and arts and technology program so I work and I've engaged and I've got people aboard like Man United Foundation, the football club, England Football League Trust, Essex Cricket County, I work with my friend Graham Gooch.

17:09So that covers East Anglia to East London, the England Football League Trust up and down the 72 boroughs up and down the country, West Ham Foundation, a safeguarding which is Joseph Lyons and my friend Jackie Ferdinand, it covers all the London boroughs, Newham and that. So what we try and do is skill up young people and get them into jobs. And the idea is, is not all of them love sports. So we've got dancing schools, we've got technology programs. Diverse opportunities. For them to find something that they can thrive in. Absolutely. And so, but how did I, I mean, back in the 60s, being in the care system, it was, nobody knew about children in the care system then.

17:55And children's homes were like 25 in our first children's home, 14 in my second. And it was in my second children's home that I found an auntie called Auntie Ray. Now she was my bright shining star. And the book that I launched just before Christmas, all proceeds go to the Factomist campaign to help children in those programs. My bright shining star is based on Auntie Ray and every borough should have an Auntie Ray because... Your face lights up when you're talking about her. And she was just... That was your hope, right? Yeah. Because you saw such a negative side of humanity and then... She was the one that actually made us children feel safe and secure.

18:37And I always used to call her the tickle monster. And the reason why I called her the tickle monster is I used to hide under the bedsheets in the mornings. And if I knew she was on duty, I wouldn't get up until she tickled me because it just made my day feel like it got off on the right foot. So I always say good job she did because I'd still be there now, right? And so Aunty Ray also taught me some really important lessons that have stayed with me and will do throughout my whole life. And I was about 10 and I picked these daffodils all around the children's homes. And I always used to run up the top of the staircase and I look out the port window.

19:12Oh, she lives down there on that end of the road there. So as a 10 year old, I picked these daffodils and I walked down to Aunty Ray's and I hid them behind my back, knocked on the door and when she answered it I said, will you be my mummy? And she said, ah Fats, we've got to talk about this. She said, come round the back and I thought I'm in trouble now for picking these daffodils. So Aunty Ray said, Fats, sit down. She gave me a cup of tea and a biscuit in her kitchen and she said, now listen, she said, I can't just be your mummy, she said, because I've got to be mum to all those other children she said but here's the thing she said I'm not always there and you are she said so why don't you be there mummy when I'm not there I kind of started to think about this and I thought oh yeah I could be there mummy yeah and I then started calling out all the injustices which didn't make me very popular as a 10 year old in the children's home but you know I took it quite seriously and I started to look after the kids like if they were having bad night dreams and you know I'd wake them up I'd tell them stories we'd play trampoline on the beds or pillow fights or drawing matchstick men on the steamed up windows sort of thing that kids do right you'd become a leader you'd become someone that wanted to nurture because of the humility and the sort of conversations you had with you right what that taught me John was in giving you receive so in fulfilling their emotional needs they gave that love back and it made me feel nourished and and the other thing what it did is it swiveled the lens in looking out for them and looking after them it made me forget about my own victimization yeah and I didn't grow up feeling victimized by my circumstance I was looking outward all the time to make sure those children were emotionally fulfilled if there was unjust calling them out of which you know it led to punishments as well but hey ho you know at the end of the day I had that sense of uh importance about you know um what was right and wrong yeah and not to sit and be quiet which I imagine for years previous you had stayed quiet you didn't want to get into trouble you didn't know it was your place to say anything whereas actually you were empowered I guess by yeah and that conversation yeah and that that word empowerment's very important because the principle came is important to me.

21:38And the curiosity and values and my values and beliefs are really important to me in my life. And one of them was curiosity. And I always lean a bit into the why, because the why is you learn, you're experiencing why, and you're asking the right questions. And I think it's always good to have healthy debates. If you don't agree with something or you think it's wrong, why don't you question it and I've often done that I did it on I'm a celeb when I was debating that it was wrong that a contraband was brought in but it was more not about the individuals it's the principle and the principle and the message that you're giving to people if you don't cross question in the right way it's not what you say it's how you say it and that's a lot to do with you know my my growing up and that steeliness, the inner strength of wanting to survive.

22:31And not just survive, but thrive. Yeah, which you are. Yeah, and I'm talking to young people today, which I have to do quite a lot of. Some of them have been, you know, I was sexually abused at knife point by my mother's lover as an 11-year-old and growing up with that. And sometimes I hear stories with young people in the care system, which I can relate to. And having been able to share that empowers them to release that within them as well. And I can remember 90-year-olds writing letters to me when I became world champion. And then my life story was told. And I had the postman who bought a big sack of letters.

23:15And I went through them all and answered them all. but there were 90 year olds that were writing to me saying about their experiences and how it's enabled them to release that that's powerful yeah amazing it shows it's never too late to actually release that emotion because so many people live with bottled up emotions you don't have to be just in the care system no for that to be going on in your life exactly but lived experiences and storytelling you know there's your life is an incredible story you know and i think you've also then understood that's a platform and then you've you've been able to make sure that the people that have touched you lit up your life and also the people that have you know really been cruel to you you know you've actually you know I wanted to ask you I forgive that's what I was going to say I wanted to ask you preparing for this chat whether you'd forgiven your mother because I know that there's you know for me as a dad of two daughters just like almost unforgivable behavior there but I can tell you're at peace with it and I can tell that makes you a stronger version of FATS to to be able to then educate and not dwell and also to be understanding of the fact that who knows what was going on in her head in her world and what she'd been through together there's a lot of power in that it's a bigger picture to it because at the end of the day past trauma and future events can trigger what that does to you when you experience trauma in your life and it's I always say it's it's not unique to just children in the care system trauma happens to all of us just by welcoming us as a human being but it's it's the responsibility of us when we reach a certain age to do what I call the healing work and the healing work is what at the end of the day will safeguard you in the way you go through your life and when I talk to a lot of local authorities social workers virtual heads of school you know young people I say you've got to understand how to do the healing work so that you can combat anything in the future that's going to trigger you off from what happened in the past that comes back to the education and it's about easy now.

25:28The modern world has it that you can Google anything and you can do podcasts, listen to podcasts. So somebody who may well listen to this, a handful of people, you might save them from, you know, not being able to rescue themselves where they can now tune in and they can find an emotional intelligence very easily on a podcast. And I always say the three M's, movement, mindfulness and mindset and those three m's are the most important thing that i do myself each day so movement it gets the good serotonin's going mindset is 90 and anything you do anyway it's all up here and mindfulness is something when you're moving you know you're going to see uh you know if you're walking in nature wonderful peace and tranquility which gives you a good flow state of mind keeps you present it keeps you present i wanted to i was going to ask you there's so much you're doing you're so important you're a national treasure but what you're actually doing is so important i was going to ask you what do you do to look after yourself because you've been an olympian you know you've won world championships so the physical side of things was muscle memory and built in but you as soon as you walked in earlier i said you you look well you've got a glint in your eye i still train and so it's that so that discipline and those three m's is good to hear.

26:48Do you have like a morning routine? Do you have a, I'd love to know what you do as a bachelor when you wake up and what the sort of priorities are, if you like. Well, for me, I'm a morning girl. I mean, I actually, I fast in the mornings and up until midday. And in the mornings, I normally do a two hour workout program. So it would be cardio work and it will also be combined with strength work. And when I look back, I have to laugh really because as an athlete in my era, it was the 80s and I call them the golden years because we competed in a period of time where it was the communist rule, you know, behind the Iron Curtain and also a period of time where no woman was really looked at as having muscles.

27:39So I was kind of a tailblazer in many respects and I had to learn to live through the finger pointing. Oh, she's got muscles, you know. Oh, so what? You know, if I was a model in Bo Derek, that would be different, but Bo Derek can't throw a javelin, and these are the tools for the job, right? So I needed to, but every young girl today goes to the gym, builds up their booties. You know, they're showing off their, you know, on social media. You're almost a pioneer. So it's a bit of a pioneer there. And also, as far as an athlete, a woman's sport goes, being a world champion, Olympian, equal pay.

28:17I went through that as well. So I fought very hard because it wasn't just for me. It was also for future generations and building a platform for the next lot that came along. Because I was often being told, oh, you're just the girl that walked around with a card in the boxing ring. You know, I think Mr. Ovet said that in the national newspaper. her so but it it's it's all part of my learning and that's what's helped me evolve to who I am now and the true authentic me is being not just the person that was sport was my savior as a kid that kept me out of trouble that then I found myself seeing Mary Peters as an 11 year old win the Munich Olympics when I was in the children's home how that could be what I can do to survive and make good of myself and then role model that's a good role model yeah but then realizing that through sport that I actually found who the true Fatland Millbrook bread was or who I was my true authentic self because it was never just about the medals it was that journey of learning that experience of what my capabilities were, what my limitations were, how I was going to deal with the world's media, how I was going to deal with the fact of being a big fish in a little tank when I started becoming successful going out in the public arena.

29:43This is all growth, right? Yes, it's all growth. Which you thrive on. Self-growth. Yeah. And self-growth was the most important thing for me as coming from the care system, being green behind the ears, not knowing how I'm going to survive and creating that life for myself as I went along. And then obviously having to face what had been through the success of my athletic career, being told, because the Sun newspaper went to the biological mum, took a picture of me in a frame and had her take a picture saying, I want my love daughter back. And then it was told to me, well, you've got to write your life story.

30:23That must have been financially motivated. For her, yeah. Yeah, of course. There's no money in books, obviously, because you know that if anyone has written books. But that brought me to a massive breakdown in trying to prepare for the Olympic Games because I'd just come off the back of the World Championships. I won Britain's sole gold medal. I was made BBC Sports Personality of the Year. I'd also won the World Athlete of the Year. and it was kind of surreal in as much that this is what I wanted to do but at the same time it brought me back to where I had been for the last 16 years of my life in the care system frightening a very frightening cine movie going through and to realization yeah it was hard should have been a really happy time because you're being validated and awarded for incredible talent and huge hard work but then you've got that but of course that that triggered you to to write your book and and put the story out there no I didn't want to write my book it was told to me to write my book well I mean that's why I said triggered yeah triggered yeah you know the advice was tell your story of course how much of that sort of the from being the child left to die to the the years of suppression and and trauma was almost like being a kind of a sort of a cork in a bottle that's been violently shaken to then that pops a genie yeah yeah yeah love that love that how much of that do you recognize now because it feels like fats would have always been competitive you know you that and and you know but you may not have clearly found the journey you went on to achieve all these things and you just named some of them and there's so many more but you know what i mean you recognize that and and staying so humble with it because there isn't there's not a fat sat here with a chip on her shoulder you're not it's not you're not there going look what I've done yeah it's like you know so so you've been able to come flying out genie out of the bottle but then have humility as well well that's important there's no ego and uh we all have egos but there's no ego that that drives me what drives me is passion and a need to make fundamental change um for these children and young people because you know why shouldn't we aspire to for them to have everything that any other child would have in a conventional family it's a huge legacy that I mean I mean I want to help you in any way I can with that and anyone watching and listening can now know what mission you're on I wanted to end on two kind of relatively quick questions that sort of dive into that there are so many things you've achieved and what you're ultimately trying to achieve is is so mission-led what is your greatest achievement?

33:10My greatest achievement is being a mum and having my proudest moment was when I had my son Ryan and being able to break that cycle myself through not having been brought up with a mum you know to be a good mum and to know that I've completely broken that cycle and being able to live an independent life myself and look back and think yeah you've come a long way and now it's your turn and this is my ministry through the Factomers UK campaign to give back and realise my obligation in supporting those children and young people and the care system itself. Which again makes you so important and my final question to you would be how would you define success?

33:58Success is something that if you see somebody that's cracking it now they would have done months years of work leading up to that and you always what I call when I talk to young people are working in failure in order to perfect to embrace failure yes so always work always accept that you know that you never just get to the top you never just be wake up one morning and be successful it's a work in progress so be the architect of your own life brilliant advice I was so looking forward to this conversation and I've really really enjoyed it and I know how busy you are so thank you for making time to talk today thank you thank you thank you