Sahar Hashemi OBE | Extraordinary Life Stories

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0:13Sahar, thank you so much for joining me. recommended

0:19rash Sahar Hashemi? Oh, gosh. Sahar Hashemi. Well, I think the problem is every time people think of me, they think of the first business I started, Coffee Republic. And however proud I am of that, I can't seem to shake off that founder of Coffee Republic. And you almost feel like as the years pass, it's something I did so many years ago. It's actually quite scary if I actually think about how many years ago it was. And even being here in Holborn, it reminds me of a lot of the sort of startup times. but I think I hope now to be known for Buy Women Built what I've just started and maybe slightly change the script around myself.

1:05I love that and Coffee with Public is a journey into being an entrepreneur it's been able to shape key parts of what you do now but tell me what is Buy Women Built? So Buy Women Built is something I started during Covid so it basically is a movement to encourage and shine a light on female entrepreneurship in the UK because what people don't realize is that in the UK we don't have enough female entrepreneurs. And when you think, when you say we don't have, we have 30 % less female entrepreneurs than other developed countries like us, like America, Canada, the Netherlands, 30 % less. And that 30 % less cost the UK economy$200 billion.

1:43Do we know why? Why it is? Do we know why there are 30 % less? Many reasons, but a lot of it is confidence. So I was involved in the Rose Review of Entrepreneurship that came out and a lot of a lot of it is women think they haven't got the right skills to be an entrepreneur so they don't even try and as we know entrepreneurship is all about just taking that leap and just going in and a lot of women don't because they think actually it's not me I haven't got the right skills you know it's for different kind of people there's a sort of set entrepreneurial type where does that come from because that really interests me I'm as you know I'm a father to two teenage daughters so I want them to be able to have that confidence to follow their passion follow their dreams so that lack of confidence that lack of self-belief which is something i absolutely have unearthed in other conversations it's a sort of a passion of mine is to try and understand why that is is that any sort of kind of archaic uh chauvinistic male-dominated sort of things or is it actually that there just haven't been enough role models for girls to aspire to be female entrepreneurs no john i mean it's really simple it's that old adage you can't be what you can't see.

2:49And it would just, you know, when you looked around, I think there was a stat that I picked up because I did all this Google research and 80 % of 11 to 18 year olds can't name a single female entrepreneur. So if you're not seeing women do stuff and for, you know, there's a, you know, you've heard that two P out of every pound. Great. Right. It's a stat that is important. A stat that needs changing. But imagine if you are, if you know, a young girl starting like one your daughters and thinking, and that's that's in your head, you know, oh, women can't raise finance. You know, there's a female investment gap.

3:21Well, you're not going to start, are you? Because that's all you hear. It's not inspiring. It's just not inspiring. So, you know, sometimes in trying to solve some of the problems we've had, we've so focused on the problems that then we affect that confidence angle that plays such a big role in not having enough. So my rationale, and I remember what came to me was, so I was always, I was involved in the Rose Review. So I knew about that, that 30 % stat, the 200 billion stat. And I had written after Crawford Republic, the book, Anyone Can Do It. And I called it Anyone Can Do It because, you know, I was brought up in this view that entrepreneurs are special people and they're different.

3:59And coming to the studio in High Holborn, my very first job as a lawyer was just off High Holborn. So I literally, I was looking at all my lunch spots. Very nostalgic for you. I'm very nostalgic and Lincoln's in fields, right behind where we are. And I just remember at that time, Sahar the lawyer, Sahar the solicitor, the world of the entrepreneur was so far away from me. I mean, that was for quirky people. It wasn't for me. I was, you know, I went to university. I was, you know, I didn't have that sort of brain. You know, the word creative and me were just not associated. So the Sahar that were for five years was walking along, buying her lunch along these streets of High Holborn, just had no idea that I had an entrepreneur within me that one day I'll be called an entrepreneur.

4:39I believe anyone can do it. Entrepreneurship is in a set of skills you have. You don't have to start as an entrepreneur. You become an entrepreneur when you take an idea in your head and you turn it into business. And it's a mythology that everyone can follow. It's a sort of method to an entrepreneurship. There's some steps you take. And at the end, you sort of can look back and be, oh, I suppose I can call myself an entrepreneur. So with those two in the background, me thinking it's not a special skill it's not a chromosome um i'm sitting during covet and sometimes they say how you know if life quietens down it leaves space you know i'm sure you're into all that if you know in the empty space comes new ideas and i remember everyone during lockdown was like oh is you going to write a best-selling book and you know what are you going to do i'm doing nothing you know and suddenly um i was doing a lot of like i'm on the speaker circuit about entrepreneurial culture and big companies, which was sort of my day job in a way.

5:34And speaking to big companies within books on what that culture of agile entrepreneurship is. So that speaking has completely come to a halt in COVID. So for once, I'm actually not busy. So my mind's a bit empty. And literally, I remember November 2020, I'm sitting in my sitting room and I'd actually ended up having a foot operation that I kept delaying minor kind of bone foot operation and I thought fine what better time that we're in lockdown for me to get this bloody foot operation so I'm putting my foot in front of me and going through Twitter and this tweet comes up and literally I just remember the moment I saw that tweet and the tweet was to the effect that you know not all of us can mentor women not all of us can invest in women but we can all buy from them and i don't know if there was like a chorus of angels up there or something but i just remember i still remember that moment light bulb moment literally you know when people talk about light i used to sort of be like light bulb moments but there is literally i just remember like it was almost like time stopped and everything stopped every noise stopped and i remember thinking this is this is really this is really big and i just felt the sort of energy like around this i'm thinking buying surely you know we talk about investments but actually a really healthy business is a business that grows from customer revenue we always forget that it's always like a series b series series b but what about your customers are you actually growing your business are you selling your product are we forgetting about that um and i just remember that time when i contacted jacqueline the rockers who was at that time head of take uk who wrote the tweet.

7:16And I kind of said to her, that was really strong, that tweet. That means a lot. That's really powerful. And really just through that, you know, many lockdowns we had, that idea just, just, was just there. And I kept just being so excited because I, because, you know, and you and I were talking about, you know, Great British Entrepreneur Awards and, you know, I've been on all these judging panels. So I thought I... Placed you really well. Must stress that it wasn't just that you weren't, you say you weren't doing anything you're part of you know you're OVE there's so many things that connect you in politically and into the entrepreneur hub if you like yes well what we call our ecosystem that I'm lucky to be part of because we do have this amazing ecosystem um of you know all of us and sort of so I had I was lucky to sort of sit on that ecosystem and um and it's so literally I remember thinking well you know it's amazing because I know quite a lot of female entrepreneurs but I bet people don't really know them.

8:12I bet, you know, people just don't really know that this brand that they are buying is founded by a woman. You know, I kind of knew, you know, I picked up by Little Moons, you know, Mochis. I knew that Vivian has started it, but I kind of thought the average person doesn't know. And we're missing a trick here because, you know, again, you can't be what you can't see if you don't know who started them. And I thought, you know, imagine telling people, actually just look at all these brands around you did you know these are built by women did you know there's a woman entrepreneur who's had the idea who's gone with it who has gone through all the obstacles we read about but she's made it happen why want why are we not talking about them we're missing a trick if we're not talking about them um and it was just championing female entrepreneurship it's an absolutely great excuse to do so and champ and genuinely championing and i kind of thought the best way was through products because you know we sort of talk about female leadership and you know and i'm sure you have been and i've been for sure after many events where you bring together loads of just women you know who are leaders but it's so vague that there's not that much commonality between someone that runs a big company and someone that's starting a business but i actually thought what and i've always loved consumer brands i'm the world's biggest consumer i mean you know women kind of sort of control 80 percent of firsting decisions you know none bigger than me like the world's biggest shopper the love brands love everything you know I could get lost every country I go to I get lost for about two hours at the supermarket and I remember thinking god imagine doing that around brands and at the same time very much effective social media around me I don't have children of my own but you know my god daughters my nieces my friends daughters seeing what social media was doing to them and that's not even half and what's into them now.

10:01So I mean, like even those kind of four or five years is what a difference is made. Seeing what there is about self-esteem. And there was something that really worked me up as well as the background was, I remember one of the Kardashian girl, the sister, Jenner, she had the lipstick brand and her lipstick brand, for some reason, sort of she became a billionaire. And so she was the first woman on the cover of Forbes as a first female billionaire. And I remember looking at her and there was a lot of press around. She has just made it to the cover of Forbes. And I remember thinking, actually, she's not really an entrepreneur, is she?

10:40Because she started as a reality TV star. These guys are reality TV stars. They're influencers. She hasn't built that business from one lipstick. Just a big beauty company has licensed her out. A team of people that formed around the brand. Around the brand. and and very much i remember thinking if i had seen her on the cover of forbes i would have never ever taken that leap into entrepreneurship myself because that would have set the bar for me somewhere that well if she does it i'm nowhere like her i have you know 100 million less followers than her um you know not i'm not a worldwide name can't associate like there's nothing and not only can you not associate i just it does the actual opposite of inspiring you you're like you know then just go off because entrepreneurship is not for me and I remember that that was quite you know just all these things are back in your head and then that really struck with me when I saw on the cover of Forbes I thought oh how completely whatever the word of the opposite of inspiring is that that is that is what that is.

11:42Negged out. Yeah negged out I like that word and so um so this is all in the back of my mind really and while you know then the idea comes right they say it's just like you know everything comes together in this idea and then I remember actually thinking I've got to start somewhere and I started I sort of opened up an Excel workbook on my Mac and I started writing a list of every entrepreneur I knew I kind of thought there were so many. I bet there was your network must be phenomenal. Well you kind of say that but I kind of thought female entrepreneurs of consumer products and I came up with 36 and I was like okay 36 like I didn't know that many more so even I in that entrepreneurial ecosystem didn't know more than 36 consumer brands that were founded by women um so i thought oh that's that's interesting but you know somehow i just continued and i continued for the first um year i had all these like zoom calls about it everyone's saying this is a really interesting idea love that you know are there enough female entrepreneurs out there maybe there aren't that many you know and you always have these doubts when you're you know in that gestation period of an idea of course you're up and down the whole time you know people always think people are really gunk-ho but they have no idea what goes on in that gestation period where the idea is just here and one person you know can just actually smash it and just tell you it's nothing and then you're sort of like a road guru and like there they're picking up the pieces and one day someone could be excited and then you're on cloud nine so it's that yo-yo that everyone who's ever started with an idea would know what that's like um and then I just sort of slowly you know thinking great idea and then when nothing was happening so I remember like after a whole I started that you know I got I got the idea the light bulb in November the whole of 2021 while we were in lockdown I was having zoom calls discussing idea like you know this um and then I remember that Christmas thinking oh you know what like every great idea it was just an idea I'll never be able to take this off the ground because ideas are just you know what I mean this can be another graveyard of brilliant ideas because how do you just start a movement you know and as people were telling me you got to raise millions to start a movement how the hell do you start a movement to get young people to buy from women built brands like how do you do that and at that time actually um I had called someone called Barney McCauley who was who I'd met who was like a marketing guru and I and he very much like you had a daughter and we talked before about social media and the kind of role models for girls so I called him and said listen talk about a marketing movement you know will you come and join forces with me and let's start this together because I knew I needed to have a marketing head so very important to realize that the the beginning of buy one build wasn't just women for women you know I literally my 50 50 co-founder at the time to get it off the ground was was a man who really believed in this and he really had the marketing brain but he also was you know we need to raise money you know you can't you know you need to raise proper money and it's sort of not sort of something I wanted to do like I just didn't know how to even do it and so I went back to my old playbook and my old playbook is all about starting small the power of tiny steps and sort of what I call bootstrapping and entrepreneurship and so I kind of thought actually do you know what you know I always talk about bootstrapping always talk about big things start when you make these teeny teeny steps and I thought and I spoke to like a couple of friends who were like just just start start a whatsapp group I'm on a whatsapp group it's easy you know And people back then didn't have that many WhatsApp groups, funny enough.

15:11I remember thinking, yeah, just sort of WhatsApp. I'm just going to start. And I remember I happened to be on a panel, and it was just before Christmas, with three other entrepreneurs that I didn't know. And there were three female entrepreneurs of consumer brands. I remember I went to Lou and thought, I'm going to do it. This is it. And I literally went out on a way. Hey, ladies, I'm just about to start this WhatsApp group of bringing together all the female founders of consumer brands. Will you be on it? And I really had to kind of like, it was so scary that moment. I was just so exposed and just, you know, and people, you know, when you have an idea, you really feel so small with your idea and so vulnerable.

15:49I remember they were like, yeah, do it. And so thank God I took screenshots. I remember that next morning, I kind of started a WhatsApp group. I called Bonnie. I was like, I got to call it something. And I invited them. And it was literally like three people on a WhatsApp group saying, you know, I'm starting a movement around female entrepreneurship. relationship um but then that three very much another one and then another one and it was quite embarrassing when you're still very small numbers you know number five joins number six seven and then when we got to about 12 people on the whatsapp group i thought um let me get them together like let's all have coffee together and anya high mosh i'm very kindly hosted she just opened her cafe the anya cafe and she was like i'll host it like come and come and get these women there and as soon as they came in i just couldn't realize that they had never met each other because when I was starting in a way there were there were sort of quite a few of us and we had met for some reason but these guys again maybe because of like all the sort of socials and emails there aren't that many in real life events for them to have met and they'd never met I was like how come you guys don't know each other and they just got on I just couldn't stop talking and they couldn't stop connecting they couldn't stop sharing I just couldn't believe I remember just looking from the outside thinking this is phenomenal so you knew then you were onto something So all that apprehension, that nervousness from someone who's so accomplished as well.

17:08God, I thought this small. I hope you flipped it right around to them like, right, I'm onto something here. I thought this is really phenomenal. And I was like, listen, like, and they wanted to also post it. And I was like, don't post because I haven't really started anything. Hold on. Please don't like say anything. But they just couldn't stop. And then I was like, they were like, oh, God, something, something, some mystery is happening. But you know, like we had no name. We had no... You're not branded at this point. Nothing, you know. Just the concept. Just the concept in a way. um and then i find enough slowly the branding i think i even did make a cube of why one built and sort of put it there on this kind of small table i have the pictures of it um and then and then slowly literally from that coffee morning you know the thing about women which is why they're phenomenal is you know this idea that um networking is a man's game like you remember that thing we hear about it's just rubbish so you know networking happens in golf clubs and women are not parts of I mean, women are masters in networking.

17:58They can't stop talking. They can't stop connecting. I mean, men are dreadful in networking. My husband goes off to golf with a friend of ours who has been a life-changing moment. I'm like, what did he say? He said, oh, we didn't discuss it. And I'm like, you were together for eight hours. How could you not? You know, when it was a woman, leave them together for two minutes. Everything is shared, every experience, every up and down. And so they started telling. And so it was very much like, Sahar, you must get this and this on this WhatsApp group. So this WhatsApp group literally grew one, you know, to 30.

18:31Which grows your network as well, right? At this point, you know, from 37. Yeah, absolutely. So then other people bringing in. Because even my reaction was, God, I had no idea about that brand was Wimbledon. Oh, God, is that brand Wimbledon? I had no idea. And so I sort of brought them together, sort of very, very, you know, literally, you know, one after the other, me very much just working from home, you know, getting a few interns. Must have been so enjoyable, actually. I bet you thrived on that. Yeah, loved it. Once it got going, it was amazing. and just seeing them come together and just it was just really little coffee mornings that we had another coffee morning and then the group got bigger and then we couldn't fit into the Andy Cafe anymore and then the kind of WhatsApp group got definitely couldn't fit into it now yeah it's global right absolutely I mean the funny it's just UK but yeah I mean we've had over 3 000 submissions now from and that is only consumer brands sorted by women in the UK I was just thinking that there's probably quite a few women entrepreneurs watching this listening into this, thinking, gosh, I wish there was something for outside of the consumer brands.

19:30It's probably something to think about. Yes, I know. I know. For services. Yes. You know, the issue that we have at the moment we're thinking is because anyway, so we went from that and then. So now, because at the beginning it was very much the bigger brands I knew. So that was like became, you know, literally we went to the bigger brands, like, you know, the founder of Astro and Mew, the founder of Rickso, the founder of Wise, the founder of Sarah Chapman, the founder of Nails Inc. That was easy. The big brands we knew. but then what I realized was there were like all these other consumer brands that you know were just up and coming or sort of just scale and um where do we put them and I didn't want the whatsapp group to get that big because then you know as I'm sure you've kind of seen this enormous whatsapp groups with those sort of messages um and then we sort of created this sort of community home um whereby like a platform and an app where they can kind of ask each other questions and so now we've got you know um yeah so over the sort of 3 000 um submissions we've got the kite mark i mean it's just grown and it's just um it's so mission-led i love the fact you took the time to articulate it and you put the vulnerability vulnerability into there where you were stewing on it you know there's a lot of people that potentially again aspirational entrepreneurs and they're not sure of their idea they're not they're not sure ever to back themselves and you know you had a track record you know absolutely and i was as vulnerable as as because you know you're only as good as your idea so you know i mean life is so easy not to do anything and just go go back on you know i mean i always started conchiora or i wrote a pressing but and but you know it's that beauty of when you put yourself out there it is so scary and it's almost like you're sort of stinking like no one wants to get close to you because you also feel alive at that point And then you feel alive.

21:14And then because you then realize that you've pushed yourself. Momentum, isn't it? You're backing yourself now. Yeah. And of course, you know, your idea has flown. I think it's important to make the point that I think we probably both got stories where there is an idea that you put forward that hasn't come off. But by having that momentum and move forward, you're you're you're learning real time. Absolutely. Not necessarily going to fail because it could move into something else. Absolutely. Become something else. That's right. You learn something else. And I think, you know, I mean, what I'm enjoying about Buy One Builds, maybe because I don't feel any pressure of getting some, I've got no destination.

21:48I've got no, and people sort of, I don't know, I've never done that before. And I'm kind of quite openly telling people like, you know, what's the end game? What's your plan? I have no plans. But the great thing for you is this business is people-based. So from 37 to 47 to 107 to 3 ,007, you meet new people all the time. That ecosystem is cultivated. It's growing all the time. So it's not like you're trying to aspire to be 10 ,000 and that's the destination because it could be 12 ,000, it could be 15 ,000. And also you're creating something that quite simply wasn't there before. Yeah. which is going back to that two percent of VC funding and always you're you're stimulating what is clearly a nice sort of incubator pot if you like for female entrepreneurship to flourish which is a massive thank you for me because that's my legacy that's my daughter's right yes that's I mean and you know these women what is extraordinary about them is that um we actually did a video before the conference we had was they couldn't I mean they are the ultimate role models for each woman each girl there is out there for them to see that this could be you because they couldn't be more different you know and i've also trying to create these like diverse you know female entrepreneurs could not come to every shape and size every age different backgrounds different reasons why they started and for me just to see each of these women but they have one thing in common they had that idea and they didn't sit they're thinking about it asking people they took the leap you know what i mean and every single that they share that that leap and in that journey of the leap we know that there were no shortcuts they just grit you know it's just kind of they shared grit they and that and when you bring together women who've had the same journey of you know that vulnerability is exactly as you were saying one idea that no one else has thought about it's just in your head and they brought it to life and they've gone out there and they've sold it to consumers and they turned it into products and 98 % of them have started from a personal need um and funny enough we have this time where we when we download on the website i like to read every single story of each female founder why they started and it's just extraordinary each one and literally 98 % we've got the data started from a personal needs, something they were missing or their family was missing.

24:12Or it could be that they came from Sri Lanka and there was a certain culture around food that they then couldn't find here. You know, whatever it was. Solving a problem or something specific. Solving a problem for themselves or their loved ones. Like you did. Like you did. Like you have. Yeah. And so that is the essence of product innovation, right? Because they're starting as customers themselves. So they didn't stop because they were trying to, you know, they wanted to start a business. They started from the point of the product. So that is like the DNA of true entrepreneurship. And these women are so incredible.

24:44They're so different that every single girl in the world could see themselves in one of these women. You know, they're going to find themselves in one of these women. And I just wanted, I can't tell you what they're like. We were in Birmingham. We're now doing a tour of the country because now we're big enough to be able to tour a country. So on our tour, we went to Manchester and yesterday's tour was Birmingham. them so we got everyone from the midlands to come together because for example like all these brands building in the midlands with a lot of their factories midlands didn't know each other i mean could you imagine i find i find it crazy but the reality is you you found that out by putting them together yeah by putting them together and then kind of for example um i don't know if anyone has barbecues here but like there's this brand called the sauce shop i don't know if you've seen it it has this amazing burger sauce and stuff i know what you mean yeah it looks like it's that sort of stenciled and suddenly like she turns up pam and i'm like the sauce shop is female founded like this is me and i'm pretty good at the diligence i'm a solicitor you know what i mean i should be good at this four and a half years on still brands come up and i'm like i had no idea you were a female founder so this is almost how i feel about it is like women going i'm female founded my brand's female founded and you know it's not that you know this is not sort of some sort of a oh god you know um it because we feel sorry for them or it's against men it's just that we have all these brands of female founded people just didn't know they were female founded and for a while we need to shout about them shine a light on them so all these girls coming up can realize what women are capable of totally which community we had that brief chat before we were filming and that word community and the fact that the importance of what you you are doing is that those girls women that are looking into space not thinking it's for them you created this whole environment where they're like that's me and I guess there's an element of potential mentoring as well so you you obviously were in a position and yourself included to be a sort of been there done that established and people can learn from you and you are a role model but there are people coming through that haven't got that that have the idea yeah have the story and you can embrace them and bring them in and just do you feel that do you feel there's almost like the established and then the up and coming mixing together now because that's how you learn yes but i mean the only thing i would say about that actually is i believe um that everyone with an idea is you can get mentored to death you know with an idea you know but you just got to take a leap and learn yourself so i'm a bit like um we don't allow anyone in and when i say allow anyone in you know because it's a community whereby um it's peer-to-peer right so once they come in especially once they're in the community app um you know they're interacting with each other what you don't want is someone who hasn't taken the leap because i believe ideas come to you it's up to you there's enough resources out there um for you to just take the leap and go go with it and we believe in you know starting small and starting somewhere and you know for example i was um talking to vinita um party of blink braba i think she's got like 36 or maybe even 50 worldwide brow bars.

27:56You know, she started by putting one chair in the middle of Fenix and they put her in the lingerie department of Fenix, one chair with someone doing someone's eyebrow. You know, these founders have started small. She didn't start with a chain of brow bars. She started with one, you know, it's this stripe and stare, the kind of revolutionary sort of underwear brand. You know, her mom kind of sewed the first pair of knickers, like Deborah said. You know, it's sort of, so So Buy One Built is very much for women who've just started, taken the leap and started selling already, because then they have the commonality.

28:29I totally get that. If you're still thinking and you're still churning, you've got to actually take the leap. You've got to be facing forwards and moving. Yeah, and the resources are there. And get inspiration from these women. Let them power you. Read their stories when you're feeling low. But there's enough for everyone to take the leap and just do it. and then it's that peer-to-peer support because there's something about that this new generation that is like oh i've got an idea can i be mentored actually get yourself a book read the book do i mean yeah without potentially trying to go the route of the word woke and so on there's there is an element of there's a lot of self-help uh sort of books and and uh podcasts and and kind of information out there that people feel like it's all being done for them yeah no one can do it Yeah.

29:19Except you. And then you can take the help. When you take the leap. So I mean, I have to say I'm kind of with this. Someone said, I've got an idea when you meet my thing. I was like, no, let them do it. Once they've done it, it'll be like, is that packaging right? It's important to hear that. Yeah. Because I'm just like, actually, you know, it's everyone's own responsibility to take the leap. You know, we live in an amazing country that has so much support. We have access to so much resources. Take the leap. And then later on, you know, the questions our founders ask is, you know, how do you get into a corridor?

29:49Can you help me with what should I say to the buyer? Is that the correct way? That's the sort of questions you want. People who are in the arena. And it's, you know, it's just sort of you've got to be in the arena. Yeah. And I think that brings me nicely to the kind of role model side of things. You talk with so much passion and conviction and you're very, very quick to know when, where and when you sort of sit where you can help someone. but at the same time, you've got to help yourself. Yeah. Do you see yourself as a role model? Do you know what? Not really. I sort of almost see these sort of 3 ,000 women as role models.

30:22I'm kind of almost... I feel that. I feel you push that away, and I'm trying to bring it back to you. You're clearly very humble and self-deprecating. You also know your strength, right? But I just think that's a key part of why I wanted to film with you so much. You know, right from the beginning, almost like drawing up a list of people I wanted to speak to and know what my pillars are, if you like, of sort of interest. And that's how I see you. It's like, actually, you know, what you've done to get to what you're doing and then what you're affecting change with is so powerful, so influential.

30:53Wow, thank you. That's that kind of lovely. Oh, it's heartfelt. It's heartfelt. And I'm very conscious of sort of almost like from this conversation on, how can I help you outside of this conversation? You know, there's a there's a movement that you built through a vision that's now clearly very much sort of running full tilt. It's like, you know, any way I can help you in any way and hopefully anyone watching or listening. And then actually, John, I mean, something else which is, I think is happening. I'm seeing this pattern and we're about to do a campaign with one of our brands around this idea of, perhaps relevant for your daughters, that I think when I was brought up slightly, like let's say the 90s you know working um around you're in a corporate setting it was sort of um you know that kind of corporate culture was quite male you know I remember like I started you know wearing kind of shoulder pads when I were talking about you'd have to wear a suit as a woman you know what I mean it was the shoulder pads it was strong you know women have to be tough and quite hard and to be a businesswoman and what I'm seeing and I have always been a bit quite like that it's sort of really once I embraced entrepreneurship I realized it's just using Sahar you know entrepreneurship is because when I was a lawyer and actually was probably quite a lawyer I wasn't really able it just didn't come naturally to me in a way um but when I went to entrepreneurship I realized I'm just using my human qualities here just like maxed out you know what I mean like 100 % constantly like the my the Sahar sort of personality motor was running on every aspect and then I sort of almost thought well so that's that's sort of quite me that's my way of doing it and even for me as someone at my age the realization I've had with buy one belt is they're all like that so those feminine qualities that we had to be a bit apologetic about before that is like if you want to go to business you've got to be a bit different this is how people do it this is how you present you've got to present differently I'm seeing this women not being like that I'm seeing them be for example something that we always get accused of is you're too emotional like I remember when I um a coffee book became public and I'd be in board meetings and I'd get upset about like the recent coffee flavor we have or the iced coffee mint and it was almost like this is a board meeting like you know we don't discuss this sort of thing because this is about business and we're a public company I was like but it's the coffee um it's it's because that actually when I think about it now that was the essence of what we do if that's not right there's nothing right and so I'm seeing through these women it's extraordinary is that idea of soft is strong so feminine qualities that we used to associate as weaknesses or actually our strengths our vulnerability is actually our strength if you are deeply emotional about your product your customers that's actually wonderful because that's what large companies are looking for so own your qualities, your feminine qualities, be 100 % yourself.

33:50You don't need to become someone else and have another persona to do well. And I'm seeing, because I have proof, one after the other, you know, and the ones active in our community, I think are 2 ,350, like, and because they sort of come on board and, you know, when they come to our events, I see that in every single person. They are wholeheartedly themselves with whatever qualities they bring in. And I think that is the ultimate role model that we need for girls is that actually you don't need to compare yourself to someone else because what you are born with your qualities your weaknesses your strengths all add up to what you need to find your part in life 100 and you you said earlier that you can't kind of be what you can't see well you're you've literally elevated that and the storytelling element to it the the community because that's that's almost like today's version of the fireside chat but you're doing it with yeah three thousand people that will ripple out that goes to the daughters the the colleagues the the friends you know that's that's powerful yeah you use that term because yeah well it's happening because it's lovely to hear that because sometimes you're in there i'm repeating what you've said and sort of what you've done but that's that's what wasn't there before that's now clearly which was a missing piece all these all these women now can actually genuinely see it's happening yeah and can you know before this sort of idea of women are shopaholics you know and i bet your daughters it's the age where they started loving shopping right and before that was like oh it's a flaky shopaholics you know i wish like you you know they were sort of into science or my actually shopaholics brilliant because that means you're out there that you were going to have the eye on what the market needs what's missing you know that is your opportunity yeah because you have got a pulse of the market so you're now telling me that i can go home to my daughters and say you're all right to shop because so hard this is a bad influence.

35:41It's your creativity feeding as to what the market's needing. You know what I mean? I do. And it's just like, it's okay, those, because those are just, you know, for girls, I'm sure, you know, as they wake up, boys get interested in, I don't know, sport or sex, girls get interested in shopping, right? It's like they're high. But that's okay. That's brilliant, because that could then give you the genesis of some idea. You mentioned science. It's not out of a classroom. It's not out of a textbook. Yeah. Which is probably really inspiring and refreshing for parents, let alone kids. Exactly. That is not conventional.

36:13Just let every girl be fully owned. I think who you are is something I've learned. And I kind of have got daughters of my own. And I just hope I will sort of say that. And I lost my mum. So I sort of always miss that kind of slightly maternal, that feminine influence. I was so lucky to have such an incredible mother. her influence on me was tremendous in terms of sort of and it's just me and my brother and she really let me own my own qualities like that and i just hope maybe you know sometimes i feel if you leave the world without children there's some legacy so i hope that's a legacy oh you 100 % have a legacy and i think i want to humanize you a little bit because by women built and everything you're doing and that that is almost like a huge part of your identity now which will continue to grow and and do your legacy but there's a lot around being a successful entrepreneur that way you've got to be up at four in the morning run a marathon meditate read a book where did you sit with that how does sahar kind of almost sort of look after her mental and physical fitness it's it's so suddenly i've got a team again a buy one built for me i suddenly we were sort of you know have an office and i'm you know so suddenly my responsibility is just of the time where I'm thinking.

37:29But I am, I mean, I can see you're obviously quite a health hacker, but I am. I came in having a Danish pastry. I caught you. I saw you. But I had a heel. We matched each other there, surely. God. But I'm sort of quite strict about sort of certain things. So now when I wake up, I'm really, I love a sort of cold shower that I really believe the day starts. Is that early? Yeah, that's kind of, I have a sort of normal shower that has to finish with a very, very cold shower. And that's the only way I sort of wake up. I'm very, and I try actually very much the sort of Simon Sinek approach of not looking at my phone.

38:08First thing as I wake up when I have that shower. And then I have a little dog Stewie and I take Stewie for a walk. And that's like a real important sort of zone for me that nothing starts with that. Cold shower, one espresso, go out, take Stewie. Sets your day up. set the day up yeah and then it starts and it's just um yeah there's there's no nothing between that it's just especially now with buy one book that's so exciting that's why i think it's good for people that people that will be uh learning from you listening and watching and see you as a successful entrepreneur you know you're sort of learning what people do and i think i'm conscious of time and i think the sort of final question i want to ask you i just use that word success sitting here now how do you define success and gosh you know what the only way i define it is being fulfilled and um fulfilled means challenged and learning um because i've seen success whereby um i was 29 30 when we went public and i sold my shares and left so is that success but i felt that moment I sold was the darkest moments of my life probably where I felt like I had nothing to do, I had no purpose suddenly, I missed what I was doing.

39:28It was like someone who shut off my creative flow. And yet your bank account was probably full at that point. Absolutely. And I just remember kind of thinking, I've got something to do and I remember seeing and I kind of thinking, went for my first ladies lunch and I was about to slit my wrists after it. Is this my life? Literally, is this my life? and I'm then going to go to yoga class afterwards. And it's just really, because I have been there, it sounds like ungrateful, but people have no idea, that idea of having something where you're able to be creative, where you're without purpose, where you are learning, where you feel relevant, I think.

40:02I think that is success. So it's genuinely, I can't wait till when Monday morning comes. I just can't wait. Yeah, I can see that. I just can't wait. You see it in your eyes. Yeah, I can't wait to learn. It's sad. You can imagine I've had conversations and have friends, colleagues, business partners that have gone through that same scenario where they've realised a disproportionate amount of money. Money, you never need to work again, and they're miserable. And it's to understand the purpose and the fulfilment. That's actually what's brought us together. You know, I lost that key part of my life, the fulfilment element, to then be in a position where I've so enjoyed talking with you today and learning from you.

40:39I could go on a lot longer, but... No, no, no, we could. ...in contrast of time. Just thank you, because I know you're busy, and I know what you're doing is so mission-led, so to make time to talk to me today, I loved it. No, no, no, when I got the invite, there was no way I was saying no. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Perfect.