Saving 1 Million Trees: The Cheeky Panda Story | Julie Chen

0:00When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated whether it's hot yoga over 100 degree weather or too much sun gator light with a specialized blend of five electrolytes was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration shop now at retailers nationwide gator light hydrates faster than water is it in you symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration.

0:57Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. Bamboo is a fast-growing renewable grass. It grows up to 91 centimeters a day. So if you got time, you can actually wash your girl. 91 centimeters. Wow. Yes, you cut it, it grows back. Tell me, who is Julie Chen? Co-founder and CEO of Cheeky Panda. As a female founder, I'm trying to build a modern challenger brand that disrupts the toilet paper industry. We are now number six toilet paper brand in the UK and number two tissue brand in the UK. Brilliant that's such a crazy story how far can you go what's the ambition with the company?

1:31Julie Chen:So we want to save a million trees it's not just like financial numbers that's the goal is that we want to save a million trees and that's what everyone in our business working towards. Have you felt any challenges through being a female founder has there been anything that you've noticed where you think that might have been easier if you were a man? I not only as a female founder but also come from China and I have to lead the team that is kind of sometimes people are older than me and have more local knowledge than me but there's a lot of mistakes there's a lot of figure out of what to do and how to lead as a female founder sorry to interrupt i've never asked this before but if you can subscribe and follow that will allow me to keep bringing extraordinary guests onto the show.

2:24Now let's get back to it. Tell me, who is Julie Chen?

2:30Julie Chen:Julie Chen is co-founder and CEO of Cheeky Panda. I'm a man of one little Cheeky Panda. He's a little boy and he's now seven. And as a female founder, I'm trying to build a modern challenger brand that disrupts the toilet paper industry. Great intro. I've got to ask you about the name Cheeky Panda. Where did that come from? So when I was kind of coming up with this idea and I was researching for NEMS because it's a sustainable business and I don't want it to be too serious because it's boring, right? And the whole idea is to kind of make it mainstream, make it must market. So it got to have some sort of things that normal people want to accept it.

3:15Sure. Not kind of quite niche or like quite serious. So I was researching ideas and then I come up with some different kind of fun ideas. And then Chicky Panda was one of them. But then because I'm Chinese, I thought Chicky is fun Chicky. But when we come up with toilet paper and then put Chicky Panda on a toilet paper pack and then people saw, oh, bum Chicky. And then they start to kind of feel this brand is really fun. But as a Chinese person, I didn't actually realize that.

3:46Julie Chen:No. It's kind of an accident, but I love it, yeah. And the why as well. There's a sustainability piece, which I know runs at the heart of this, but what's the why behind the Cheeky Panda? So when I was researching into, kind of this idea come to me by accident, but when I was researching into the industry, I just found a lot of things doesn't make sense, like why corporates cut down trees or forests that's been there for 20, 30 years and then make into toilet paper that we use for three seconds and can flush it away. But there's a better way, which bamboo is the fast growing renewable grass. It grows up to 91 centimeters a day.

4:30So if you've got time, you can actually watch it grow. 91 centimeters. Wow. Yeah. So it's a grass. You cut it, it grows back, we don't have to find another land to replant new bamboo or replant anything. It just layers as soon as you harvest it, it goes back. And the harvesting process is good for the environment because it absorbs more carbon, releases more oxygen. And whereas cutting down trees, we had to find another land to plant new trees. And that take 20, 30 years to grow. And land alteration and deforestation is one of the biggest reasons for climate change. And therefore, this is a smarter way.

5:12And I started this business from my spare room about 10 years ago and just thought why nobody was doing it.

5:22Julie Chen:And it's such an obvious resource that's underused. So you saw the deforestation, the destruction of beautiful environment, and you saw that there's a product being made and then you sit in the middle of that and think, well, actually there's another solution which actually has all the benefits. But that's brilliant in theory. Then you've got to make it happen. Tell me about that journey from starting it in the bedroom to where you are now. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

5:59Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Low energy, unfocused, foggy. You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide.

6:38Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

6:47Julie Chen:Yeah, so we were, at a long time we were kind of, obviously I told my husband about this idea at that time. He was my fiance. not even finance, we're just going out together. And he loves my idea. But we didn't actually have funding to launch the business. But to test the concept, we decided to test the water and then launch a cloud funding campaign. So we launched with a 10K, 10 grand goal. We actually over fund to 12 grand at a time. That's enough for us to buy the first container. And we know that actually there's demand. So we put our first container and then tried really hard to ship the first container.

7:34We launched on Amazon first and then we tried to call all these big retailers from our spare room. And we were packing samples to send to all the clients and people we know. Luckily, we break into a small kind of natural organic chain and that was part of Planet Organic later on. So that's kind of become our first client. And later on, we go into Whole Foods Market. And then a couple of years later, going to Ocado and then going to Boots. And then five years later, we were in Weichos. Last year, we launched into Tesco and Morrison. So that's kind of take the Cheeky Panda phone, like niche premium brand to now.

8:18We start going to mainstream. And on Amazon, we were like£100 income in early days, like first couple of months, and then go to£500 and then now£1 million every single month on Amazon alone. We are bestsellers on Amazon. And we are now number six toilet paper brand in the UK and number two tissue brand in the UK. Brilliant. That's such a great story. I would love to know the challenges. I'd love to know as well where through the desire to be sustainable, whether that means that you're compromised in terms of you're charging more than other tissue paper, if you like, out there. But then the benefit, of course, is that you're protecting the environment.

9:02Whether people are prepared to pay that or whether you've managed to bring it in price competitively.

9:06Julie Chen:Yes. So in early days, obviously, because we go to Whole Foods market, we go to these places where people are more equal-minded, and that's where we build our influencer. base. But obviously, to bring it to the mainstream, the price has to come down. And we engineer the pricing, the shake count to make sure it's still premium, but not too premium. So now it's 10 % of gap, but if you buy bulk, it's actually cheaper. So our biggest bulk double-less toilet paper is 16 % cheaper than the brand leader. So people actually can get a good deal for Cheeky Panda products. But yeah, it takes quite a long time to engineer this unique economics to make sure it's slightly premium, but it's not like people don't feel it's out of reach.

9:53People can still feel it's affordable. But because the quality is actually better, we have four-ply toilet paper. So you actually use less. So even if you pay a little bit more, you use less.

10:04Julie Chen:So when people do the calculations, actually, in the end, you end up saving money. That's brilliant. There's a lot of companies, as well as, of course, individuals, but a lot of companies that want to be in any way helping the environment. Have you found that that's been well received? Because you are literally providing a solution to stop deforestation, which is talked about so much, but there's never been anyone that's ever been able to come forward and perhaps put something in front of a company that then they can benefit from. And you do that. Yes. So obviously, we are providing a solution for our clients to take their CSR or environmental goals.

10:42And that's part of how we can support our clients. Like hotels, for example, there's lots of hotels using GK Panda products. And for supermarkets, like the sustainability CSR is also part of things they need to do. But as part of that is also we are kind of female-funded brand, and that also can benefit from kind of CSR point of view. And from diversity point of view, you also support our clients, the corporate sustainability goal as well. So from kind of both sustainable angle and kind of from people's angle, we can plug in very well and to support those corporate business goals. That's interesting.

11:28There's been some damning stats over the last few years of less than 2 % of VC funding going to female founders and championing you and your position right now as a female founder. Honestly, I congratulate you massively. Have you felt any kind of challenges through being a female founder? Has there been anything that you've noticed where you think that might have been easier if you were a man? Or have you just been so focused on what you're doing? You've not had time to notice if you normally.

11:53Julie Chen:There is a lot of challenges. Obviously, I not only as a female founder, but also come from China. And I have to lead a team that is kind of sometimes people are older than me, then have more local knowledge than me. But there's a lot of mistakes. There's a lot of figure out of what to do and how to lead as a female founder. But I think now I designed a business model tree, which like this is our mission to save a million trees. profitably and this is how we do it. Our profit 10 % for our people, 10 % for charity. And people join our business, they are behind this mission. So we are able to get everyone aligned.

12:40So even there's disagreement and everything in between, we all know we are going towards the right direction together. And that is important from the leadership point of view is to get everyone aligned to the same goal. I love that. And leadership is what's brought us together. Meet your friend, Steve Tappan specializes in that yeah and a key part of of what I've learned from him and I know that you spend time with him too is about that self-awareness piece yeah that's right and I wonder if you can share with me kind of almost becoming that that that leader that founder yeah how how that's changed you and what you've learned about yourself if you like from a self-awareness point of view

13:15Julie Chen:yeah so we've done quite a bit of self-awareness thing with Steve Tappans and like um the whole awareness code and my whole leadership team and my team they're all aware of it so we kind of hold each other accountable if someone is a leader is operating below 60 then there will be people kind of pointing that person out why are you behaving that way so it's i think the whole thing is about self-aware but it's also about emotional intelligence how can you how do you appear to be positive to be kind of show up as how do you show up as a leader for your team and then therefore you transform more culture um so i think from self-awareness prospect i do kind of have a few things that i'm aware maybe i'm not i want to be brave and sometimes i can be brave but naturally as a like someone grow up in asia i could be a little bit shy could be a little bit reserved but that's things that i know i need to overcome and but that's how that awareness code could help.

14:16And then there's like, we all trying to move and operate above 60, which is more kind of higher positive state of how you behave as a leader. Yeah. Life is a founder.

14:28Julie Chen:Yeah. If you look at the success story now in reverse order with being in Tesco now and so on, the graft, the amount of time you've spent, is it seven days a week and long hours every day? Is that what it's been like for you? It is long hour of work, unfortunately. And plus I grew up in Asia. Like work is just life. There's no separation of work-life balance, work-life harmony. It's natural for people who grew up in Asia. But yeah, I do enjoy what I do and I do work long hours, but I feel energized by what I do because I create this product that people love And not only it cannot contribute positively to kind of help with the deforestation, but also we provide really high quality products that is actually affordable.

15:22It's not cheap, but it's affordable for people. And that helps people save their time because they don't have to worry about their choice. By toilet paper, we have a subscribe and save service online as well. So we provide a good solution for people to help people's lives and help their choices. So for me, I really enjoy my journey. And it's also quite fun because it's a fun brand. It's called Sheep Panda. We have a mascot panda.

15:51Julie Chen:It's called Colin. He's running about in London doing all sorts of chaotic things. And we're going to put him in outdoor campaign this winter. We have a really amazing outdoor campaign coming to the market in winter. So when everyone just catch your coat and then Colin will be like, do you need tissue? That's smart. Everyone will be crowding around you. Especially after this heat wave we're in the middle of the moment. Yeah, so it's fun. It's a very fun brand to work with and we have amazing people in our team and we are kind of doing something amazing. We're doing something great together and that's positive.

16:27Julie Chen:So I think I enjoy it every day. Well, you can tell. And you can't fake that as well. That's very, very authentic coming from you. And that culture, which is healthy, there is a hustle culture that can be unhealthy where these people that are striving to achieve something that look strained with it. You have a twinkle in your eye. You're enjoying there's a purpose and a passion behind what you do. But what do you do to remove yourself from work? Is there somewhere you can go? Is it meditating in the morning? Is it yoga? Is it going for a walk in the woods? What do you do to remove yourself from the crazy being found out?

17:02When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero Powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body.

17:42With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

18:01Julie Chen:I have a boy, he's seven, and when I don't work, my time is spent with him. So you're just fully present with him? Yes, and then kind of trying to force him to do things. In China, we have tiger mums, but I never really do anything to force him. I try to nurture his creativity, and he loves all these insects, bugs. We took him to have a forest walk and then kind of find these little insects that he can explore. and he has a praying mantis at home, that's his pet. So we nurture his kind of interest, creativity, and that's kind of how I kind of, when I don't work, he is my world. I appreciate that, that's lovely.

18:43And what about the physical fitness side of things? There's a lot of people that, particularly in that entrepreneurial side of things, they swear by trying to do some kind of a workout or something to keep fit, which keeps their brain in fit. Do you conform to that? Do you have that mindset?

18:58Julie Chen:Yes, I used to. Sometimes I work too hard and I just like, OK, oh, my goodness, I need to go for a walk. And then I didn't do it today. I try to do it, still try to do it like twice a week or three times a week if I can. But, yeah, I try to keep myself kind of active and fit. And sometimes, yeah, I do kind of really enjoy my work and I just didn't get to do it. No, I get that. I think that's very relatable to all of us. It's refreshing to hear as well that you don't seem to be too hard on yourself when you don't manage to fit it in. You just do it when you can. Yeah. So the trajectory that you've been on from starting the business to where you are now, how far can you go?

19:40What's the ambition with the company?

19:43Julie Chen:I want to take the business to 50 million, 100 million. Yes, we want to save a million trees. It's not just like financial numbers. That's the goal is that we want to save a million trees. And that's what everyone in our business is working towards. And so far, we save about 250 or more. So there's still a long way to go. But yeah, we're trying to get there. Yeah. And that giving back piece. So the giving back is saving the trees. But it feels like there's a real mission-led element to you about wanting to perhaps have a legacy that goes beyond Chigi Panda, the trees. and perhaps is a bigger, from a sort of human point of view.

20:25Julie Chen:Yeah, I think we all come to the world once and then obviously you can choose anything you do to make money, right? There's other things that you can spend your time on, but what is the legacy you want to leave in the world? And for me, it's to create a brand that inspires change that is good for the future generations, be a role model for my son, hopefully, inspire other people female founders maybe I don't know what it is but I just want to create something a little bit positive like I kind of after maybe another 10 years I look back say okay I've done this and I'm not wasting my time so that's kind of what why I kind of spend my time do what I do today no I like that because there's the ambition with the business yeah but then it's something I've talked about before which is you can't be what you can't see which is you being a role model for other female founders.

21:20And I'm a dad of two teenage daughters, so I want them to be inspired by people that have followed their passion, had that initiative to then start something and build with a bigger purpose to it. So with that in mind, as you as a role model, what advice would you give to yourself from the learnings that you've had to sitting here now to a younger version of you? I think it's more to push the boundary a little bit I always push my own boundaries if I can but maybe more of that from early days is like I from eight because I come grab in Asia we can be a little bit shy a bit kind of not lack of confidence sometimes but actually as I kind of push myself a bit more and sitting in front of clients and I sell the toilet paper and tell the story I find And actually people buy it because I tell the story.

22:17So it's kind of push, be more confident. And then just, especially for female founders, when you, in early days, you don't have any funding and you are the biggest salesperson, the marketing person for your business. So I think it's just push yourself out a little bit more. And I need to do this more for myself even now. It's constant, right? Yes. And is this part of that sort of growth element? So like, for example, someone admits they were shy when they were younger and now there's cameras and lights and going out as a TV program. Is that something that you seek to grow from, but you still know there's nerves there and so on, if you like?

22:54Julie Chen:Yeah, 100 percent. Yes. And it's a constant of they put myself out of comfort zone and just to challenge myself. of even like leadership and all these things, leading 30 people and senior people that have done FMCG for 20 years when I have less experience than them. But it doesn't matter. I had to push myself out there just to lead. You don't have to make mistakes. We'll start again. Let's change a little bit and pivot. And then start again. It doesn't matter. And just keep going. I love that. And that brings me to, I was just about to ask you about success, but I want to ask you about those mistakes and those failures first, Because to be a founder and to be where you are now, a lot of people will say they learned more from their mistakes and their failures than from the successes.