Sophie Kasaei | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:13Sophie, thank you for joining me. I'm really excited about this. Me too. Like you said earlier, you normally do the interviewing. Yeah, I'm usually in your seat. So no one really interviews me. I'm usually interviewing them. I'm the gossip queen. Pleasure to be the person doing that today. Yeah, it's exciting. Tell me, who is Sophie Kasai? Sophie Kasai. There's two different Sophie Kasais. There is the Geordie Shore Sophie Kasai that a lot of people have seen for 15 years. But there's also the Sophie Kasai that not many people see. so there is two sides to me and both great but both quite different is that deliberate is that to keep your privacy and to keep the the private Sophie that only a select group of people see well I don't think I've been given a chance really to show who I am things like this are brilliant because I can talk and express in the way that I wouldn't be able to on reality tv shows because these shows are not controlled but there is subjects and on them subjects you have to just speak about that subject so you can't really show who you are as a person really when you're following sort of story scripts and stuff almost like you're directed and told what to do exactly but one thing that joins the two of you together is authenticity yeah so although you're being told because you know i've watched and i've seen and i've listened to all sorts of things building up to today yeah it's been a pleasure it's great but you're yourself so although you are splitting into two and those things you have to do it feels like you still wouldn't you wouldn't do anything you wouldn't believe in or wouldn't want to do yeah yeah of course I think now that I'm older there isn't things that I wouldn't want to do things you know like I think you you have more of a understanding perspective right yeah in this industry yeah so like say if we're filming now will be like, I'm not happy with that.

2:05I don't really want to say that. I don't want to do that. And they'll really understand the producers and stuff now. So they'll have a lot of respect. Okay, that's fine. We understand. But obviously back in the day, you're talking 15 years ago, when TV was a lot different, but it was really a lot more fun. We could just do and say whatever we wanted and producers would tell them, you'd think, oh my God, I've got to do it so I'll stay on the show. But you know what? You were proving yourself back then as well, right? So there's probably an element of a young Sophie that was like dreaming of stardom.

2:36You know, you're aspirational. And whereas with that perspective, maturity, and also you've learned so much. You were an early pioneer. Like you say, TV's changed a lot. I am. I'm totally sure. I call myself a veteran in TV. I'm a TV veteran. And yet still so young. 15 years I started. I'm 35 now. And I was like 20, 20. It's mad to think of a 20-year-old starting that kind of industry with no past experience. Didn't have any clue really. the only shows that were around back then was TOWIE, Made in Chelsea and Big Brother. They were the main reality TV shows. So it's not like now there's like flood loads.

3:10Most TV now is reality TV. So we were always compared to them other shows. So for us, we were so different, so new to it, didn't have a clue what was going to happen. And you know what? Weirdly, not many of us started that show wanting to be famous because we didn't understand it like the people do now. reality tv now is people want to get famous rich super quick public profile but for us we had no clue what fame actually meant or what being in the public eye actually meant we were just kids from these small little towns being given an opportunity and we had no clue what was about to come interesting you mentioned the platform because it has allowed you to build a platform and i guess ultimately that makes you a role model you are i mean i was going to come to that but by being a role model and by having proven that going on reality tv can do that that's why so many people want to i think i think some ridiculous stat like 70 percent of gen z now aspire to be an influencer although that's not necessarily how you describe yourself you are able to influence now because you built a platform yeah you look i totally agree with you of course you know there is part of us that has to be a role model as we are getting older as well you know if you look at jordie shaw what can a role model be to a girl who was going out partying and having fun yes of course you can take bits of that you know and say there was a bit of a role model in ways you know where um i talk about surgery or be honest and i'll be honest about the way i was feeling mentally and stuff like that but now being a role model means so many different things to me especially with the age that i'm at a lot of women are 30s 40s and for And me being a role model would mean, you know, I want to help people who've got their kids now and their younger generation.

5:00And also the women of my age, you know, I speak a lot about fertility and endometriosis and women's problems and mentally how we feel as women. So I've really used that to my, I've used my platform to the advantage of helping other women. And yeah, maybe I am a bit of a role model, not my past, but as I am getting older, I'm learning more. I don't know. I mean, your past is all part of who you are, right? And so I think, you know, I know, very humble in saying that, but then is there not an element of the fact that you've been so visible for so long? And so people have been able to get to know you.

5:36And actually, if you're reflecting with perspective and maturity now, you don't have 15 years ago to then say, I probably wouldn't do that again. I probably wouldn't advise that. That's being a role model. Yeah, no, of course, it's learning. Learning from, I wouldn't want to say mistakes. I call it lived experience, but you're going slightly negative with it, as in like, you know, things that I wouldn't do again, but it's lived experience. Yeah, it's lived experiences, 100%. And then I've learned that, you know, if I have, when I do have a family, the life lessons I can learn my family will be incredible.

6:10because the life that I've lived is so rare. It is, you know, very different to how a lot of younger people have been growing up. So I think I can probably give the best advice. Yes. And that is what I love to do now. I like to help other people and speak to other people and learn. I can feel that. And that's a key why I wanted to talk to you. Yeah, I'm quite motherly. Yeah. And you want to give that advice because it's going to benefit others because you were a pioneer. Use that veteran word again, right? Veteran, yeah. you've come through a time where it was the wild west if you like you know no one and i'd love to ask you that actually you know almost like the lack of safeguarding the lack of advice the fact that you were able to build a platform but you were doing it without necessarily knowing what that really meant and you've got a huge following right you were talking about socials off camera and but that gives you an opportunity to monetize that and to also engage people from a role model so actually what you say and what you do now has a lot more consequence and meaning and purpose than it did 15 years ago yeah but you've got to remember like back then we had no it was like we lost the value of money a bit as well and we didn't really know what we were doing like we didn't ever have any financial support or anything so it's just no advice really it was just spend spend spend and it got to a point i've spoke about this before like where i end up with no money so yeah monetizing it all and doing all that kind of thing yeah it's great but we had no clue we we were just kids and being thrown into this world and we had no clue what we're doing we didn't have social media for the first four year until that started coming around instagram only came around what was it 10 years ago now so we were five years into that before that happened so and then there's no advice for that right so you would have been i mean fair play you built a following but you were you were again pioneering that in the in the sort of limelight It doesn't seem to have, again, you've articulated it beautifully off camera.

8:05It hasn't actually damaged you in any way, you know, and caused you a sort of a massive downward spiral. But there must have been times where you've battled it. And maybe that's part of the split that we don't see. And I wanted to touch that without... No problem there. Just how you got through times where you're like, I wish I hadn't done that. Or now I know this because you learned it actually in real time. Yeah. And almost giving that advice to people looking in now that want to be you. I think I'm really good at hiding it, I'll be honest. I think I'm really good at hiding going through dark times.

8:36It's like resilience. It's like a mask because in the hard times that I've went through, I have to be on camera. I have to be bubbly self. I'm getting paid for being me. So if I didn't show up to work and I was just sitting there down or really talking about how I felt, that wasn't part of the work at the time. So for me, I've got a really good defence mechanism of going through bad times but putting on this brave face, which in a way isn't good because... Bottling out your emotion. Exactly. I'm bottling up and then one day I'll just burst. So I have been through so many traumatic experiences and up and downness and this journey I've been on has been absolutely tough.

9:24But what I rely on is speaking to the other cast members about how I'm feeling relating to them we can all bond on it all and you know even speaking to like friends and family who might not relate to what I'm going through but just talking has helped me so much it's ultimately therapy isn't it doesn't mean you've got to go to a therapist but you are bottling stuff up as a young version of you now you're prepared to talk yeah and and talking to the people that you know will give you dare I say the information or the validation an ear that's what we need isn't it we need some someone to talk to yeah of course hit the nail on the head You must have seen in that sort of 15-year period other people not deal with their mental health, particularly right at all.

10:05Oh, God, that's so wrong. Have you been there to help some of those people? It's tricky because you're in your lane and you're trying to look after yourself. Yeah. But do you feel that as much as you're now talking to people about it and that helps you, can you see where certain people really went into it again, a downward spiral and struggling to get out of that now? Well, listen, I mean, it's very out in the open what's happened to other people who are in this TV world and how hard it can be that people are just living with these demons. And, you know, some people have obviously brought themselves to suicide and people have attempted it.

10:37The list goes on. It is really, really sad. And this is why the younger generation who want to get the fame and they want to get the social media and being an influencer, it is not what it seems. yes there's some amazing bits but I have seen people like really rock bottom you know I've got friends in tv have reached out and said just don't want to be here and look there's I've had times like that you know it it sort of comes with it but what's really hard is you know sometimes the public then go well you signed up for that you signed up for that this is what you should get you know you knew what you're in for and we're all human yeah and we are all like normal people as much as it might not look and sometimes people in reality tv or in the public eye they are hitting rock bottom seeing signs of that early on which i i can say i'll always reach out to them always but again some people suffer in silence and that is really sad if they're not saying anything how you're going to know exactly another key thing is because it's reality tv a lot of people will feel like they know you because they watch you all the time all the time i imagine you do go to go to tesco you go to the post office and it's like it's sophie and i'm like well i don't know you yeah how would you manage that and i think that's a bigger picture conversation of managing fame and a big social following where a lot of people probably want to message you because it's sophie but actually you know what back to that two of you that's the sophie i put out but i kind of need my space to not be approached I'll be honest with you when I first started getting like more well known something like I didn't accept it it was maybe I had a bit of imposter syndrome but I was really like I wasn't rude to people but I remember like being out in public with the other Geordie Shore girls and people being like oh so and so's my favourite or so and so's my favourite and I was never the favourite so that really stuck with so when people want to get photos I used to be like not rude but I used to have this like back up and be like well do you not want a photo with her she's more popular and they were like no one will want it with you and I was like but why and I did this quite a lot or like when I got recognised people would like say my name and I'd hide because I didn't want them to get a photo with this because I didn't feel like I was worthy enough of like being known or being like liked really really weird you know when I think about it back then this went on for quite a while you know and and we're still talking about now and they're like god can remember like when you used to run away from like people taking photos of you and what got you comfortable with that because you're I feel like you're super comfortable in your own skin now there is that maturity perspective and you've sort of got your identity if you like and you're in your lane but where what got you to a point where you lost that imposter syndrome if you like i feel like it took us a while and it was probably until a moment where i actually felt like accepted for being me and i think that needed to come from you right that needed to come from me and accepting like who i was so it was probably probably took about six years you know a long time a long time to compare myself constantly whoever's more famous or whoever's more popular at the time and i think i think that really stuck with us and it probably still does now you know I'm constantly getting compared to the other girls they've had babies they get married oh my god she's not poor Sophie and it's like a girl band sort of mentality that that I've got do you think the resilience that you built from that made you a better person though do you know what I mean like so you you masked you hid you and so on to then build that perspective and actually kind of this is me and I'm here because I'm me and then actually you're stronger for it yeah 100 % it wasn't until like, you know, Jodie Shaw had probably like changed a bit and more people came in and there was other cast members.

14:26And then I felt like I really found my own a bit and I wasn't compared to just maybe like three girls. I was now in a bigger group with more people. So that made us feel a bit better about it. But again, I, you know, I was mentioning this before. I think I started doing a little bit inner healing. And when I did that, it was when I really found myself just before Covid I was about 29 30 and something changed within us and when I look back it was like it was like I was a cocoon turned into a butterfly I love that yeah that's how I felt like that cocoon was just brewing and then I just had my wings when I turned 30 and my life changed and I felt like I just knew myself and I was like I am Sophie Kasai and I've been doing this for a long time and I know like what I stood for and I was you know talking about you know endometriosis and all the other things and I think that's probably when it really clicked.

15:26I love that I want to know how much of that was deliberate and how much that came as circumstance because what you're talking about there is making a conscious effort to look after yourself yeah so um we talked earlier that I go to the gym in the morning it's important to me but it's also a nice way for me to start the day it gets and it gets my mind focused so going through that difficult period to then almost having therapy of yourself if you're like and being mindful I actually did get therapy yeah great yeah I'm so glad you said that and so but you consciously went looking for it you kind of almost I guess um acknowledge you needed help and then you helped yourself so what works for you now like because you look like you keep fit you've got a proper sparkle in your eye yeah so there's a mental and a physical fitness glow for me but what do you do for me it was like I was saying this before it was like I like had this new religion right and look I come from a Muslim background but I found this religion within I sound so woo woo but it was like within like the universe thing I started doing crystals I started doing meditation then I started doing like yoga on the TV.

16:33And then, you know, in COVID going for walks, that really started us out. So then things started to be a bit of my therapy. And that really helped us. But I had a very negative mindset, I think, in my 20s. And I knew I had to change that because the negative mind can take us to some bloody dark places. And that is scary. And I knew I had to change my mindset because that was not getting me anywhere you know the constant words they're doing better than me she's doing better oh my god look at her like I'm not worthy and when I changed that I kid you not my whole life changed and I think that was like me going to the gym it was like waking up and doing meditation going for a walk doing things that make us happy you know and getting out all them kind of things and mentally you know speaking to myself and I read books upon books controlling the voices in your head this is so powerful I'm a dad of two daughters 13 and 15 so you are a role model to young girls growing up and there is you mentioned social media and the pressure there and a lot of what you just said then is a big part of that sort of negative doom scrolling algorithm on social media and so you know to actually know that you can consciously focus on positives and do things physically and mentally to stop that kind of you know going into a really negative place you feel like which you've been in to know you pull yourself out what advice would you give to young aspirational girls growing up that could be lacking in confidence could be afraid to put themselves out there yeah my 15 year old doesn't want to post on social media because of the fear of judgment and uh kind of bullying that goes to school but she's beautiful she would probably love to be doing more and be visible it's so sad it is sad it is sad i've got a cousin actually who was posting the other day and they keep putting like emojis over a beautiful, she's got a beauty spot.

18:29There's this girl, oh I see, I'll cover it here, but there's that or they'll just do a clip of the hair and all that you want to put your face, but they won't do it. Honestly, it really breaks my heart and look one day I know I'm going to have children of my own and I'm probably going to have a little girl and you know, I do question all these things because look for me, I didn't have any training. I was thrown into the deep end with social media. I didn't know what to post, what not to post, what to say, what not to do. And you do have to think long and hard about what you post. You don't want to upset certain people.

19:01You say the wrong thing, cancel culture, we'll cancel you. And you've got to remember you've got an audience. So everything I do now and say, I've got to be really mindful. And I always think if I had a daughter, would I want her to say this? This is the way I'm thinking now. So that has helped a lot. Now I'll go out clubbing, or you know I'll go to the club and stuff and I'll think do I really want to show being hung over the next day like I'm really conscious about what I'm posting now or should I really show that extra tequila like does it really matter you know but 20 year old me would show me partying all night long being sick and thrown into buckets and doing whatever wean on the streets or whatever like that was us but yeah so i think now my mentality is would i want my daughter to say this and look i've made mistakes i posted the wrong thing you know i posted sexy photos and stuff like that yeah i've done all that look and i've did all that but now you know but you had no no one advising you there's no probably people encouraging you to do that and also i think i think yes and i think there was a cycle that the embraced the the worst of humanity if you like with social media because it was so hidden away it was so chiseled the tv programs were very staged and so on and then suddenly you could do anything anything and you did so and i guess i don't know where the judgment sits with that but what's really cool is you've got a maturity to be like i don't want to do that anymore or if i'm doing whatever i want to do that i don't want to show on tv and socials i think you've got to learn to be able to say no you know and in our That's great advice.

20:42Yeah, I think in our world, you're getting thrown so many things at you. You can do this, 500 quid. Or the other week, someone was offering us a post of sunbed, and I was thinking, well, that would be 500 pound in my bank. And then I was like, well, no, I've just found a new mole on my back that could be skin cancer. Why am I doing that? So this is only recently. Things are changing mentally. Ten years ago, I would have been like, yeah, I'll take the 500 quid and I'll post like whatever. But I'm learning to say no because of the obviously image that I want to, you know, show to other girls and, you know.

21:19Responsibility. Responsibility, exactly. You've been on one hell of a journey. Oh God, yeah. Facing forwards, you mentioned family and, you know, that's all kind of in the mix, if you like. But as a career, as things you'd still like to achieve, is there any kind of North Star that Sophie would like to do? TV's a hard one, you know. I say this to my partner, I don't want to be famous, I just want to be successful and I just want my family to look at us one day and just be proud. And that's what I strive for now. Look, I've had the fame, I've had the money, did it make me happy? No. I want to be grateful as well.

21:58I'm not just sitting here saying everything's negative because it is absolutely not. I've had an amazing career I've been able to see things and do things and help my family in ways they could never imagine so there has got a good side of that but I know a lot of younger generation now they want to be famous they want to be the TikTok almost at any cost yeah and you know you're seeing certain things now with women exposing all the bodies and you know doing all these sexual activities which goes back to the role model going in the wrong direction exactly and it's scary and it's sad but one thing I'll say is money doesn't buy happiness and fame definitely doesn't buy happiness what does it is just wholesome things and having enough to pay your bills and get through life and you know go out for the weekend with with your friends and your family and it's honestly not all that and I think the generation really love the self everyone's different in their own way these girls are all different in their own way show that show how you're different you know if you read a book don't think you're uncool or you know if you play with dolls that don't think that's uncool like nothing's uncool you're just different and that is how you make and embrace it embrace it i love that i always ask everyone on external stories what their definition of success is and you've just summed it up beautifully success isn't fame or money for me it is just being loved by my friends and family and making them proud and just being comfortable in my own skin really yeah and then life I love that you mentioned TV so um I've had the pleasure to speak to a number of people that have have got a TV career if you like is there something there's an undertow that I'm picking up on where reality TV stars that have done really well being really successful huge views which would be fine if it was a documentary yeah I think you know I'm going with this or you know sport or whatever but there's this sort of almost insecurity where That then leads to them being famous, having a big following.

23:57But it pigeons them into an influencer, which is the number one desire for Gen Z to want to be. Weird, crazy, yeah. But, and this could include yourself, whether it's now or at times. It's almost like they're uncomfortable with being that, you know, and they don't necessarily feel like they are a TV star. But that's how we've been consuming our content, watching you on TV. and so on, which you blow up, you become well-known and popular, but they don't feel because it was new. Yeah. I think the word influencer, there's quite a negative vibe around it. I agree. It's like you'll see influencer and instantly the brain will go, oh.

24:35Where do you sit with it? I don't, obviously I'm not an influencer. I was brought into it. I totally agree with that. Yeah. You've got, there's so many other things you could, but you, exactly. And I guess my point being that Kylie Minogue back in the day kills it as a singer and then she can be the face of a perfume and so on she's now an influencer it is crazy and and i and i get it there's different different things that go with influencer i think like you know you'll you'll people take the mickey and they'll be like oh influence on the wild or she's just an influencer or or i'm dating an influencer and it's just a such a negative thing on it but there's a lot that goes behind influencers and i've you know certainly worked with brands before and I've sent a photo off thinking I look amazing thinking that's a great photo and they come back nah not good enough we need that really done again you don't really look that good on that can we change the position can we take the outfit again and that'll take hours I've just recorded so I've got to do that again so misunderstood how much work goes on behind the scenes and the graft and the content creation yeah and you know like you said we used to sit and watch like you stand us on Coronation Street some people watch that still but we're watching influencers now so it's like the new soap do you know what I mean?

25:47I do seeing us all on TikTok and stuff but I do think there is a difference now I think the general public and influencers we're put in different categories they're getting looked down at and I'll vouch for influencers and people in the public eye they are just as normal as everyone else and I think people are putting them down too much and they're just trying to earn a living like everyone else. Whether or not people work at the supermarket or whether or not people work on social media, that's up to them. Is there jealousy involved? Because often jealousy comes into a lot of things, but it could be measured.

26:28So if someone is jealous of Leonardo DiCaprio, but he went to stage school and built an acting career that somehow it's respected and I couldn't do that. Whereas reality TV, well, I could have done that, but could you? Could you come push the shove? Would you have actually gone on camera? Would you have been yourself? Would you have become popular? And that's just one example where then someone's It's a confidence thing, isn't it? I agree. I think it takes guts. I think it takes drive to put you... Because most of these people have had to get through screening to be chosen. There's a talent element to it and then you've got to last you've got to have longevity you know which i think is a key thing for you right you described yourself as a veteran we first started talking still here still thriving still flourishing still going that's skill and you've stayed relevant you've stayed you know you've stayed in a place where you can you know do the things you want to do there's a lot of respect for me for that i think i've just really stuck to who i am i haven't changed like people are meters and they're like god you're so humble and they'll get a shock that I'm like, yeah, they'll be like, oh my God, you're actually really humble.

27:36You're actually all right. But it's because we're all judged and people have got a misunderstanding of people in TV. They think we're all stuck up. They think we're all divas. They think that we're all multimillionaires. We don't care about anything else apart from vanity. By God, they are wrong. I still love going to the local pub down my hometown. I still shop in Lidl, Aldi, Lovett, Home Bargains. like you name it I am just me and like I said at the beginning you've got Sophie Geordie Shaw and Sophie Kasai. Love it before we started talking you love doing this you love interviewing people and I think we're both aligned on a natural curiosity which will never never change right so when you're having conversations and I'd love you to be sort of open about this conversation I love authenticity lived experience what is it that you're doing and the conversation you're having that you sort of thrive off if you like?

28:28I think I love learning. What I like to know is how other people think of me. So like, you know, after this conversation today, I'll be intrigued to be like, what was your prejudgment of me and what is it now? Because a lot of people have that. And this is why I like to do things like this because I really want to show me as who I am. So look, I still love doing TV, right? And I will carry on do it because it's my passion and I don't know any different. And I will do social media because I love that and things like this because I just want to keep going and going to show who I really am because look, for 10, 15 years, I was masked behind a TV show that was very successful, but I wasn't able to show myself.

29:13Yeah. So for now... Release the chains almost. Yeah. I can feel that from you. You're flowing. And I hope you've enjoyed this conversation because we're 100 % parallel. I want to learn. I wanted to learn from you. Did I have a preconception from today? I just listened and watched you and went back to early stuff and then more recent. And I just saw a lovely... Can you say the change? Yeah. But I can also see 100 % what you said, which is that there were things you were doing that probably weren't authentic and weren't you. Yeah. But I can see that in recent stuff. And it's been a pleasure to talk with you today.

29:44Oh, you too. Because you're just being you. And I really appreciate it because that's all I want. That's exactly, yeah. There's no big book launch or anything. You know what I mean? It's like a conversation that other people can learn. And I honestly just want people to take away things that I've said. It's not easy in the public eye. And people do want to get there. And I get that. That's fine. That's up to them. But you've got to have thick skin and a good family around you and good friends. Because you will need them because it can get hard. I think there's so many kids, Gen Z, wanting to be in that alignment.

30:18It's such a powerful message. So much of what you said. Thank you, Sophie. You're very welcome. I loved it. Lovely to meet you. Thank you.