Spencer Matthews | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:00LifeLock, how can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four taxpaying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud. What do I do? My refund, though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this. LifeLock fixes identity theft guaranteed and gets your money back with up to$3 million in coverage. I'm so relieved. No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud-paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40 % your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. When does the human mind or body break? You know, I'm interested in what that looks like, what that feels like.

0:36And, you know, we can all go far further and harder than we think we can go. And I think there's a great lesson in that. Who is Spencer Matthews? A father, husband, entrepreneur, endurance athlete, who believes that we're all capable of a lot. I realised during Project 7, how much I care about earning the respect of my father and brother, specifically them. I definitely felt like a bit of a black sheep. You know, like I wouldn't be included in certain stuff. But I didn't deserve to be, to be honest. I was living a very different life to how I live now. How are you with your kids now? Because there's an element of you that you're trying to prove something to your own dad.

1:16It's a really interesting question and I've not thought about it at all. And the answer to that is yes. Definitely. Definitely. It's the first time I've thought about it. These events change you. Are there days where Spencer Matty wakes up and goes, I don't want to go for a run today. It's impossible to wake up motivated every day. Like, so what you can be is discipline, right? Like, the two things are different. Sitting here now, I would call so many things you have done already successful. How do you define success?

1:56welcome thank you so much for having me it's a great honor to be on a show called extraordinary life stories so tell me who is spencer murthies i am um a father husband uh entrepreneur endurance athlete who believes that we're all capable of a lot go straight to project seven when did you finish that with filming february now for context fourth of december yeah I mean the why behind that you coming up with that talk to me about that Stuart away so project seven for those who are unaware was was a full iron man in every continent in 21 days so the previous record for that was three years and 11 months and and we were successful in our in in the 21 days which by the way uh it's remarkable that no flights were delayed or any of the logistics didn't but you know if if the Arizona flights for example had been delayed or cancelled the whole thing gets knocked we'd have to buy a whole new flight so we i felt like we were blessed you know by something greater than ourselves with that you know nothing ran late every flight left on time broadly speaking didn't miss anything um and yeah we started in london went to arizona cape town perth uh dubai rio and antarctica i'd never done an iron man before uh although you know i'd consider myself quite fit.

3:19And the why shapeshifts changes all the time. It's quite a difficult question to answer, but I'll give it a good go. You know, I find that attaching a great cause or purpose to these larger, potentially dangerous challenges really helps because when things invariably get incredibly you know rough or even life-threatening um it's quite easy to to to land uh or pivot your mind into you know the pain that others are suffering and i know that sounds a little bit um you know grand or whatever but it but it's true it makes quite a big difference you know if we did this particular one for for male suicide prevention uh it's no secret that in the uk uh you know suicide in men is quite prevalent about you know somebody takes their own life every hour um so you know we're looking to shine a light on James's place an incredible organization that helps men in in suicidal crisis and obviously um you know regardless of what I was facing I'm probably not in the pain that a lot of these men suffer on a daily basis so that um albeit a bit morbid is quite helpful because you're doing something that you think might um help people who really need help.

4:35So it takes it out of doing something for me and brings them into it. I'm very interested as well in pushing my own physical boundaries, exploring where that line might be. When does the human mind or body break? I'm interested in what that looks like, what that feels like. And what I'm learning is that it's a million miles from where you think it is. I think humans don't do themselves justice ordinarily right i think these boundaries um that we place on ourselves are are false and you know they're just perceptions of what other people you know say is say can't be done type thing um you know we can all go far further and harder than we think we can go and i think there's a great lesson in that um so you know keen to explore that and i want to set a good example for my kids you know i've got i've got three young kids um i really want them to grow up in a world where they think that you know they can achieve extraordinary things i was really lucky with my childhood i had two older brothers um one was a professional racing driver really high level really competitive so i always had that you know him winning you know like as a kid i always looked up to him the other was an adventurer climbing iconcagua when he was 19 he unfortunately lost his life on everest when he was 22.

5:54um but you know even climbing everest when you're 22 is a remarkable feat of bravery right i've been to everest and you know for a kid of that age to go through the kumbu ice fall at 22 years of age you know 3am and in the middle of the night it is is a remarkable feat of bravery right so i've always had these awesome role models like in my life from a young age and i would love to be that for for my kids role model i was going to literally bring it up i see you as a role model so if you asked me why i wanted to meet you and film with you it's because I'm a dad of two teenage daughters um and there's how's that how is that yeah how do I look you look great I'll take that yeah uh in 14 and 16 so I know the ages of your kids and I know that two boys and one girl I know how important your girl is to you and there's an element of a different way of perhaps how your parent your daughter to your boys so with two girls which I I know we share an absolute delight in being a dad to a daughter, but it changes.

6:57It does change. Boyfriends, the whole kind of hormones raging. Social media, totally. The element of bullying, if you like, that can go on amongst girls is brutal. You know, boys can, whether it's get physical and sort of shake it out on the football pitch or whatever or, you know, square out to each other. Girls is much more psychological. Definitely. not in any way trying to put you off i've got the most beautiful relationship with my girls but it is you know i might say how do i look it's exhausting and you know the other thing and this brings you beautifully into this conversation actually i feel like a lot of what you've done has been bigger than you you brought the charity up you brought you know the almost that pressure to build some pride into your life because of what your brothers have done well that and and the and you know i was uh i had a terrible relationship with alcohol for my my adult life which you're aware of but the pride is is a is a kind of two-headed thing as well right like i i realized during project seven how much i care about um earning the respect of my like father and brother specifically them of course i want to be respected by everyone in my family but that there's feels like uh there's been a shift in these last few years call it five years where we are really on the same team now not that we were ever not playing together but um i definitely felt like a bit of a black sheep you know like i wouldn't be included in certain stuff but i i didn't deserve to be to be honest i was living a very different life to how i live now and you know it's it's kind of for me to prove to them that i am you know i don't know driven and capable value and capable you know it it came out in project seven it was really important to me right my dad being really proud of me was really important to me my mom has kind of always been proud of me and she's she's like the ideal mother who you know i love my mom we've always had an amazing relationship but um i feel like i've had to to earn stuff and that's how it should be you know like if my son or you know either of my sons behaved in you know you know getting drunk on a daily basis going out valuing all the wrong things um you know you shouldn't be you should feel that that is the wrong thing to be doing right like i think my father played a really amazing role with me in in that i i certainly didn't feel you know fully accepted by him but i i appreciate that you know i think it's important no i've heard i've heard from a number of people whether in this scenario interviewing them or reading books here on podcasts that so many people especially boys the one approval the one respect they're seeking throughout their whole life even if they don't realize it and that your self-awareness that it's clear that's come together over the last as you say five years and those challenges that have been again that goes back to the bigger than you you know there's a piece about you i met you in the summer last year and uh you know circumstances slightly different if you like but in context you were bowling in there was an energy about you that was i want to climb this wall i want to do this to do there's a there's a much there's a calm element to you that i i wanted to sort of almost share that with you i can feel because that's something you've managed to quench that's something you managed to achieve and I mentioned that role model piece back how are you with your your kids now because there's an element of you that if you're trying to prove something to your own dad there's potentially something that creeps into your behavior with your kids have you been a calmer dad since you got back you've been a more sort of nurturing dad it's it's a really interesting question and I've not thought about it at all and the answer to that is yes definitely definitely it's the first time I've thought about it these events change you for better or worse I suppose in some cases I'd like to think I'm a better person after each of these events the year before Project 7 I did 30 consecutive marathons in 30 days in the Jordanian desert and that changed me completely, I came out and even my wife was like at first I'm not sure if she loved it to be honest I was more serious and I wanted to make changes in my life and, you know, leave these projects and chase this.

11:26And I was quite determined to really cut all kind of nonsense out of my life. And I think for a period I maybe became overly serious. You know, when I came back from Jordan, it was, you know, it was a notable shift. and uh my wife and i get on famously by the way you know i'm not not meaning to create some kind of issue but she you know she would say like oh you know everything is quite you know it's all quite intense um because it because it was thinking about it project seven strangely was was was more relaxed it was harder but there was a far more relaxed element so it's my second time around so i kind of knew what was coming um and i wanted to take some of that a little bit of the pressure off you know the 30 was i had to achieve that you know like there would have been nothing worse to me than going out and blowing up and failing and coming back having put it out there that we're trying to raise money for this and that and you know really publicly stepping into this you know this is the plan this is what we're doing and then failing is worse than just failing right those feelings of not being accepted not achieving the thing you want to achieve are kind of doubled by you know vehicles like social media and the British press who obviously can be quite unkind at times so yeah no with the kids after Project 7 I've taken I've taken a huge interest in Theodore's football like randomly I'm not a footballer myself and I don't really uh I don't follow football but like I noticed that he was quite good at football got him into this academy taken religiously now like regardless of what I have on with my week you know you hear about these business owners and entrepreneurs that just simply take time to do a certain thing and it doesn't matter what opportunity there is or what meeting could come in um I'm now in charge of his football because I know it's so meaningful to him right and this sounds like a very normal dad thing and it is but i had i always had a beautiful relationship with my three kids but it's all elevated now it feels more for them it's strange i don't really know how to describe it but the football thing you know i don't care what i have on i flew back from ireland to take him to his football and then flew back to ireland the following morning proper commitment just to make sure that i didn't miss it's just a training session just make sure i didn't miss it because i told him we're going to take him to every single session unless we're on holiday or whatever you know obviously probably won't make every session but you know what i mean and um i don't know it seems a silly point really that we could probably move on from but it's it's it's important to me that he turns up and gets her on time does his full session loves his sessions and that we really fuel that passion of his because i think before that age you don't you're not fully clear on whether or not something's just a phase or a fad or he loves football right so i'm going to give him the best possible opportunity of being a footballer right i'm gonna do everything i can to make sure that he gets into the teams he wants to get to get into and if he's good enough you know goes to to whatever level you know but that i i see that as a really important thing i love that and again it's like it's probably something that every dad does but for me it's quite it's it's it feels new right because vogue is such an amazing mother as well it's quite difficult to to get um to get into the plan sometimes you know like i i see my role broadly speaking as um doing like helping vogue wherever possible supporting her with what she needs but like she is so organized that you know she will plan months in advance what the kids are doing how they're doing it where they're going and i fall into that and i help facilitate that but i said to her i was like i really want to just take control of this yeah for him that's your bond as well that's what i'm picking up and i'm imagining car journeys or imagining exactly for the game and what what a dad to have is someone that's motivating and inspiring you because of what you you've done even recently that's sort of the resilience piece he got he has a bad game how do you pick him up well you're going to help him with and you're going to enjoy that because you've got such a natural curiosity and an amazing energy to give to someone else let alone your own kids no but i don't know i had a really interesting conversation with him about failure because the coach spoke to me beforehand and he was like just in passing you know they may be seven but the level's really high you know and the team is full and um you know we're not going to waste time and energy on a kid that kind of shouldn't be there oh i thought wow it's you know fine yeah fair enough you know quite blunt there and i said to t on the way i was like listen play your heart out pay attention don't be looking for attention from me you know like listen to the coach it's quite a big step up from where you've been before take it seriously you know like have a good game like you know you're tall and you're fast and you know they're not going to be expecting you to do 100 keepy uppies but just just like get stuck in you know and he and he did it and he got in and it was a huge moment i was really proud of him you know and i think that word pride gets chucked around a lot um you know you're people are always proud of each other aren't they for doing um stuff uh you know whenever but uh i felt sharing that as well sometimes like you know you felt the need to earn your own father's pride yeah i imagine you're going to be much quicker to allow your lad and your other kids to actually feel that pride does that make sense there's a vulnerability about you that's like you know you'll be you're competitive you're going to put that onto him you're going to he needs that competitive edge yeah but you're also going to be there to guide him with the pride and let him know that he's doing a good job and also potentially be there if for whatever reason he doesn't get to where his goal is because then you can pick him up and show him how much he's learned all that stuff no absolutely it is it's it's important to be honest with it though you know like like when you feel proud tell them you feel proud if something's not gone quite that way i'm not sure it's necessary to to bend the truth right like my dad certainly never did you know it was kind of i'd show my dad something and if it wasn't you know to his liking he'd say okay you know it would never be a kind of oh that's amazing you know like like it's kind of i think i think instead of a false sense of always achieving things well is not good for your character you know i think it's great to hold hands and be and and you know help people through stuff your own kids i'm talking about now but of course i i just think it's um worth being honest with them from a young age you know if you can work harder and push harder and be better then let's strive for that listen to this right it's a pleasure to hear you talking i'm a hands-on dad as well i was given advice early when my two my two girls were kind of two three years old and i was in that entrepreneurial piece and i was talking to older wiser wealthier guys i was aspiring to beat and i was saying oh john i just got to stop you doesn't matter how much money i've made doesn't matter what i've done do not miss this time with your kids because that's the piece you'll regret and it went in it was just it was like a recurring kind of record so it's lovely to hear you talking i think the bit i want to flip to that's it's such a almost a crisis in um our young lads in particular is the role model piece going back to it and the fact that so many of them are growing up in fabulous families and i think we both share a passion here of almost trying to help a lot of what you do is bigger than you whether that's for your kids whether it's for vogue i've listened to and read a few things before this chat about how you wanted to be the best version of yourself to almost feel like you could then have that relationship that warranted with vogue it's powerful but that that crisis we've got with young lads in particular where they're turning to the wrong role models where they're not getting the information and then this goes back to the social media how much can we almost sort of do if you like what what needs to change in that space where kids seem to gravitate to a few people that put out messages that suddenly these lads gravitate to which is all about wealth it's all about the lamborghini behind you with the dubai harbor yeah kind of look at me which i think we've both been through our own version of a shallow peace in our life without you you know you know too much about me i certainly know and almost that sort of not regret but there's an element of shame about some of that i feel like you're much more at peace with that now which flips it into that what can we do what's the messaging that gets these kids to then there's much more to life than just trying to make money i mean it's a really um complicated question um yeah i wasn't expecting to solve it by the way i was interested i think i think all all we can do is as as men who've you know lived and who you know think we at least understand a thing or two is is set you know a better example and be uh you know do purpose-driven stuff that you know that sets a better example for for young men i think social media social media generally is a massive problem and um you know you're talking about andrew tate there essentially you know the messaging um is tragic and misogynistic and loud and it's it's the volume of it right and the attention that it that that it gets it that's the issue there are so many toxic role models that just get pushed to the top of the algorithm essentially because it's popular and easy content to consume because it's loud it's crass it's full-on you know and it's and it appears on the surface to have you know intelligent layers to it that are just wrong and false and it's it's um i don't really know how to solve it mate if i was prime minister i would you know put age ranges on social media you know i wouldn't i i don't personally think that people under the age of 18 should be using social media i think it's incredibly dangerous and detrimental to uh even the mental health of adults right you know the way that it is structured and made you know just ropes you in pulls you in you know has you scrolling stuff that you weren't even looking for in the first place you know it's replaced lots of people's um you know news people get their news now from social media it's unvetted completely false made up and you know it's riddled now through uh through social media it's a problem i haven't had i deleted instagram off my phone on the 25th of december just not had it i don't have snapchat i don't have x i don't have any of it on my phone and I feel much healthier for it you know and I got through that phase of going onto my phone to find it and it's not there it's like you know you kind of get bored of looking for it um but you know I think this um I'm not the correct person by the way to answer this this toxic masculinity question but you know false ideals are pushed on young men that essentially um aren't real right and it's you have to be wealthy you have to be strong in order to be attractive to to women right and you have to have a you know you have to you have to make loads of money you have to be you have to be able to fight you know you have to all all this stuff and there's this real misogynistic you know undertone to all of it that creates you know more inequality between men and women i don't really understand whatever happened to just being kind you know like if everyone is kind to one another treats each other with respect um you know helps people where possible that's great you know there is no difference aside from physicality between men and women nowadays we don't need to be driving home you know any any kind of difference there um that's his main crime you know as far as well aside from the criminal stuff that he's engaged with uh you know what i mean is in his messaging it's it's all like men are this women are this men and women obviously are inherently different right they think differently etc but we're no we're no we're no different as as genders you know we we can all go after the same stuff do the same thing you know so i i don't know i i find it um all um as i said you know i'm by no means the best person to to talk about this but you know for example a thing or two that i do know about is is the male suicide stuff because obviously we've dug into it a lot and tried to make a difference through through james's place as i mentioned at the beginning of the interview um you know big drivers of male suicide are loneliness you know and a general lack of feeling accepted right so i think if anything a lot of this toxic messaging uh almost creates a uh a really undesirable um trait around men generally you know and if you're just a nice guy trying to get on with your life and for whatever reason you're being demonized you know just for the sake of that you are a man i think it's gonna it can potentially play um rehab on your mental health you know yeah i think being accepted and stuff is something that we all deserve to feel i was talking to grace upstairs about you know the kind of how and why i choose to want to have a chat with someone and it's because i'm so naturally curious and i'm trying to be the best person myself as well as actually share conversation other people can learn from so when you say you're not the best person to answer this question i get what you mean but then when you share your perspective which is becoming more and more with all the things you're doing and the challenges you set yourself then lean into helping those where you learned about the charity and those stats are damning you know about suicide and the loneliness in men and so on but actually that vulnerability piece without in any way being woke or kind of uh actually weak but just sharing how you're feeling and why you're doing something um i really compliment you with that and i think that's um you know when someone says to you haven't you changed or you changed so much since you could get offended yeah it's probably the best compliment you could pay you right and and there's an element of that to me where how you now talk with perspective and sense is huge i want to talk to you about balance yeah because if i feel on the change front anyone who's interested in growth has to change yeah you can't change size no and grow without changing yeah so one of the white people should welcome change change is very uh is very real and you know this leopard can't change as possible perhaps that's true but people can change yes for sure and you should want to change particularly if you're not in any way happy with how you're behaving or perhaps there's there's a way of being able to be a better dad a better husband a better friend and all of that for me taps into the hole and someone turns around and says you know um haven't you changed well hopefully that's obviously in a good way yeah so i i can remember the day you finished your challenge my wife messaged me i come out of a meeting she said you know spencer's spencer's completed the challenge it was a relief other people were bringing that to me and i'm already conscious that we're in contact so i think i messaged you saying like there was a relief from my point of view i feel like that challenge tested you so much mentally and physically to the point where it's like where do you go from there but i know you love a challenge so it's like there'll be something that will creep back in and i want to know how you're managing that and whether there's a piece that's kind of come from project seven that was so extreme it's like there's certain things i'll never do again yeah you still have to get the dopamine that you're spencer right you've always pushed yourself yeah it's not about kind of beating the previous thing or like stacking them up so that there's loads of you know trophies as such to look at it's it's more about and again this is this is just real it's more it's more about living life like each of these challenges have been really different and they're all completely unique incredible experiences right the we've curated and created and got the support of incredible brands you know free train oakley um uh to to name a couple huell uh who who you know allow the the show to to go on basically and and you know they they come in and obviously um help us cash flow the the challenge uh they get a bunch of content for that and then separately to that we raise money for charity so they're two completely different things is the model basically you know i i don't i don't get paid by the brands to do the to do the uh the challenge itself there's elements that i wouldn't do again because i lived in fear of the moments leading up to them and you know but i i would love to do more similar stuff just because they're the greatest experiences i've ever had in my life you know aside from having kids and meeting vogue and you know falling in love and getting married all the stuff that you know we all love um you know these experiences are completely unique and as i said before that there's so much to them you know i love this concept of thin space like i'm not a particularly religious person but i did a show about uh for the bbc about a pilgrimage and we went on like a pilgrimage through north wales and we met this incredible uh priest who was just just lovely woman it was amazing and she taught us about thin space and she walked us up to the top of this hill and we sat on top of this hill beautiful kind of welsh valley and she said you know pick a spot in the distance and just like focus on the spot like meditate kind of thing you know and breathe a bit and and just like take it all in right the sun was setting an amazing beautiful place and um she started explaining this concept of thin space which is the the space between heaven and earth right the we can only access every so often right so it's that beautiful sunset that moment with your wife on the beach you know a gust of wind that blows through your hair and it reminds you of you know my brother or you know reminds you of someone that you've lost um and you know project seven and and the great desert challenge is just full of these incredible moments you know the sun coming up red hot chili peppers blasting you know you're tying your laces it's not it's not pain it's like it's it's something completely different of course there's pain in it but it's actually stuff that I will always remember and something I'll always have you know like you can't take these things away when I'm 90 years old on a hospital bed or a bed even somewhere you know i hope you'll have to tell my great grandkids all about the antarctic swim and the build-up to it and the leopard seals and you know how dangerous it could have been um you know we tore the wetsuit and you know there's all this drama we had this incredible uh you know meeting with these chileans and russians the night before about safety and i went back to the my room and i thought what am i doing like like this is insanely dangerous and should I be doing it but all of this all of these emotional roller coasters that you get throughout them are not real life it is real obviously but it's not it's not what you ordinarily get to feel this is a really elevated sense of being alive like all of these moments stacked on top of each other create this unforgettable adventure so you know I would love to do a Project 7 or something like it every year.

30:33I won't be able to. Soon enough, my body will give up when I'm a bit older. And also, it requires an awful lot of planning, loads of funding. It's a great big job. And I'm so delighted that I have a supportive wife who is cool with me doing it. I think if you remove the charitable element, we'd have some problems. She's delighted with our fundraising efforts so far. And I think she's really proud of me. um but uh but yeah i think it's an interesting concept of just how you frame things generally like if you if you see something as big and scary then that's what it is if you see something as a once in a lifetime unique you know chance to experience something that potentially no one else will ever experience then you feel completely privileged to be doing it right and it's i felt proud happy energized and driven to to go and do this thing you know i wasn't at all worried and fearful and because you know we'll worry about things when they go wrong it's kind of how i tend to great attitude to manage things and things things trust me things went wrong you know in cape town in the water it was it was eight degrees which is pretty cold you know you would definitely class that as a cold water swim uh didn't have gloves or boots because for whatever reason, I just didn't think I would need them because we're in South Africa.

31:59Pitch black in the water at four in the morning. You know, you've got that constant lingering feeling of white sharks. You can't see anything. You're so vulnerable. You're so alone. You're freezing cold. You're hyperventilating because your body's in shock. That is not pleasant, right but it's an incredible um i can feel it now right it's an amazing experience and you know it really helped me rationalize fear you know you have to logically break down what's happening and it's i was panicking like i don't mind saying i got in the water 100 meters in i'm breathing like freezing cold pitch black dark frightened scared seemingly alone you know and i'm just like feeling like you're gonna get eaten by something you know it's horrid right you're not selling it no no exactly and you know then you have to go there hasn't been a wide shot attack in this bay in 40 years i'd be really unlucky if there was one today um the water's eight degrees it's not zero so even if i get early onset hypothermia when i get out you know i won't be full hypothermia it's not going to end my day you know because i'm not i'm not actually freezing um you know the water's not cold enough to cause any damage to my hands and feet i may not be able to feel my hands and feet but like they'll be fine as soon as i get in the shower yeah so like you start going through all of this and all of a sudden i start to breathe a bit it's like you know you're also thinking if i get eaten by a shark i get eaten by a shark i may not i may as or it won't and until the time that i'm in its ghastly jaws you know i may as well um just enjoy the swim or try to anyway so there's there's a lot of there's a lot of that you know a lot of fear i remember the night before the antarctic swim which is zero degrees you know i was there was a blizzard like a full kind of hurricane style blizzard going on around the hut that we were in and i tried to open the door i just remember yeah it was literally yeah i'm 85 kilos i was leaning into the door with all of my might right couldn't open the door and then eventually got it open you know you'd think that there was something blocking the doors nothing blocking the doors just wind so like you know Antarctica can can kill you in a moment's notice it's a super hostile environment right and I'm sat there and Tom Beard who directed Finding Michael is there with the camera going like so how do you feel about tomorrow and I was like hey oh sorry I was like I was like I don't feel well at all about tomorrow I don't feel good about it you know I've just done six iron men i'm depleted i'm tired i've not slept well in a while you know my longest sleep so far has been on the flight from you know dubai to rio or wherever we were going and uh and to be honest i'd love to just go to bed you know and this idea of uh doing an iron man tomorrow in antarctica being the third person in history to do an iron man in antarctica also going for the fastest time um you know doesn't at this particular moment in time feel very appealing no i've got a huge respect to you and i know that's mirrored by so many people that i was i told you i was at the twickenham the rugby yeah yeah and and actually i had some of the the legends of the game the jason robinsons the manu tulagi all that and i said on film and they said can i tell you what i'd love to ask him is he's an athlete he is um a machine three times guinness world record holder now right was he really sporty at school is this something that carried on that was there was or has he actually managed to then train himself and do all this as an adult and i want to put that to you i was not were you were you were you in the gym were you in your sports teams i was in the sports teams i wasn't i wasn't i wasn't a particularly noteworthy athlete because this is inspirational to hear right because that's that's where the question is coming from it's not like you were an absolute you know excelling in that sense this is all something you've lent into and trained i was a b i was a b player i was a b team player i was quite good in the b's and when I was in the A's I was average for the A's but I made the first team for the odd thing not all things I wasn't like a superstar athlete no I love hearing that and then the other part of it is the mindset and of course that I just love listening to you then and the way you framed the whole like you know dramatic about the shot but it's happened and they're in the water there and it's like that's all I'd be thinking about and actually I don't think I could do it I love a challenge I thought I wasn't sure I could do that swim when I got in the swims take about an hour and a half on a good day you know with all the nonsense and the sea and you know it's open water and it's you know a lot of the time it wasn't flat at all and um I can do that swim in nice calm water in an hour 21 most of these took an hour 30 say sure and so you know that you've got an hour and 30 minutes of this right it's like if you're going running for 90 minutes it's a run like you've you know that's that's a workout right so it's kind of um yeah it's strange though it's the way things come at you is is different like because it's the smallest part of the race it feels like you know the smallest and most insignificant part of the day so you kind of just jump in and it's done after an hour and a half and then you know you crack on with the rest of it but you know if i had three hours to train tomorrow you know and i was to say right i'm gonna go and swim for 90 minutes i'd be like you know so but you know here it's just like well it's just the very first bit you know but it's funny i've never swam that distance really until recently just before it and it's quite therapeutic swimming actually it's quite a nice thing to do i don't know if you swim you look very very fit yeah but um but i'm be at everything i just do i do lots of things i played paddle yesterday you know and just enjoyed it you know what i mean yeah but i'm i value fitness this is this this conversations i'm loving it because there's an element of uh you take it to the extreme literally but i do my fitness that keeps me good here in my head you know but what i love about it and it is it it gives you what you give to it right so like it's a tale as old as time sorry tale as old as time super boring you know consistency layering it genuinely there's no better thing to do right if you're wondering how to go from i feel slightly unhealthy you know i wouldn't even like to run 5k to you know running your first marathon say just consistency over time stop drinking like like stop drinking for a month should do it do 30 days of no drinking go running like four times a week do a couple of longer runs super slow nose breathing only like you know able to speak in full sentences don't even feel like you're working out call your friends whilst you're running type thing a couple of slightly faster sessions a week you'll you'll be able to run well in no time like it's just so much fitter than me i can't run and talk i'm obviously running too fast which is really i'm just listening to you then i'm running and i'm running with the headphones on or something it kind of defines zone two so you hear about this zone two training you have to run slow to run fast uh it's really hard by the way as somebody like me who likes to compete and likes to like i like a grindy session right i like a session which is hard because you come home and you feel like you know you've done something you're not you're actually not going to progress much as a runner if that's all you do like i i'm really guilty of lacing up i go for a few laps at the park and like you know as soon as i start i go oh i feel good so i just hammer it you know and like run like fast laps and you get and you blow out a bit and you get home you've done a big session that's not that's not great zone four zone five tempo stuff great like once maybe twice a week the rest of it should be slow like slow slow slow it's a big tip and actually you find it's the difference between aerobic and anaerobic training right and and it's kind of like if you you need a nice aerobic base right where you just build miles like in your legs and you get your body used to traveling like without it feeling stressful uh then you layer in a bit of speed and stuff that that's really helpful like i just you know that's pretty it's hard though because you know i i you'll you'll get bored like i go out and i go so slowly the like you know you're wandering around i'll literally just jump like i'm talking about like a really light jog for two hours so you hardly you know don't cover much distance just two hours jog um it's a big part of the base like you need that yeah which is music to lots of people's ears right because that's that's the kind of running that people don't like doing because they feel like they're not running but that's that is that's a big part of running that's brilliant you shared it and i think i wanted to bring consistency up not just to understand how and what you do but also no day is the same for you and sorry to interrupt was just when i said stop drinking i'm not judging people who drink and i don't mean stop drinking forever i just mean uh it really helps with consistency alcohol in particular for me is a killer of consistency like if i if i'm looking you know for example i'm running the tokyo marathon on the first of march um i would love to achieve my first sub three like a few years ago like i wouldn't have dreamt right i'm your i i always knew that i'd be okay at endurance right because it's longer it's slower it's a big mental game you know i know that i'm not going to stop so that's one thing a sub three hour marathon forget it like i used to look at people running sub threes and i'd be like they are freaks of nature like i don't understand it it's a fast time to run a marathon and i'm on the edge of it now and you know for me to give myself the best possible chance of doing that i've not had a sip of alcohol since christmas uh been you know very very very consistent with my sleep pretty consistent with like nice nice good food just giving myself every every chance right to hit it and then you know if i go out and i make complete balls of it then then then that's that right but you know i want to give myself as good a chance as possible and that and for me cutting out alcohol really helps with consistency if i have like a few beers today i probably won't train tomorrow and i'll come up with some excuse for you know it has a quite severe knock-on effect are there days where spencer matthews wakes up and goes i don't want to go for a run today i don't want to and you allow yourself to not would you still lean into and go i'll just do 3k and then that still becomes but i just want to know whether that's you know what i mean because yeah are you that machine no no no like no there's nothing there's nothing extraordinary about me as a as a human right like i i that's that's most of it's impossible to wake up motivated every day like so what you can be is disciplines right like like the two things are different so motivation is great when you have it right you feel motivated to go and do something you know you really want to do it you want to be in the gym that motivation drifts shape shifts changes and sometimes just isn't there right like i woke up the other day and for whatever reason i was just freezing cold i felt like a bit ill i was very cold and i was supposed to go to jiu-jitsu at seven in the morning and uh my alarm went off at 6.10.

43:09And I kind of got out of bed and I was just like, oh my God, maybe I'll just get back into bed. I just won't go. And I got back into bed. And then I thought, I don't know, come on, I have to go. Because I'll let my guy down. Paxton's there. And I didn't want to have no excuse for bailing. I want to have an extra half hour in bed. But I think if you're looking to really put runs on the board and you're looking to progress and you're looking to get better, the best thing you can do is stick to your plan right like and i think if you create a plan for yourself that has consistency in it so i'm going to lift weights monday morning wednesday morning friday morning i'm going to run you know tuesday thursday saturday sunday so you plan it in yeah so i'll know roughly what my training week looks like ordinarily i mean now it's kind of like clockwork like i sort of know like tuesday's track day you know like you know and monday i lift ways Wednesday Friday I lift ways running is a little bit more fluid for me now like I'll look at my day and I'll go right I've got you know an hour and a half here I'll take a backpack with my kit in you know I'll change in the loo's at untapped you know and then I'll do my run around the nearest park and then I'll come back to untapped put my clothes back you know if it's like a super busy day otherwise I'll just plan to run at the beginning of the day or at the end of the day but no I do think that consistency is important and when you start to allow yourself of the breaking of positive habits.

44:32That's when the kind of comfort begins to drift in. And, you know, I mean, of course, like spending an extra couple of hours in bed is lovely. We don't get that luxury much, obviously, because we've got three young kids anyway who need tending to. So we're up before seven anyway. I think that's made a massive difference, actually, having the kids having to be up, having to be awake, having to be up, you know, and supercharged before them is obviously helpful, gets you up. without kids and before kids i was far less uh disciplined definitely yeah uh makes accountability you need to talk about drinking that's when that's when i stopped drinking myself personally um because i didn't want to have that whole fuzzy head and not be that person because kids at the minute they wake up young kids they're on yeah literally there's no kind of i need a coffee and so on there you know this and they're on you and it's like take me to the park you know and if you if you you know if you're not on your a-game you're not that person that they expect you know that i didn't i didn't want to be that dad so that was actually a conscious decision years ago to just think just drop it and just to finish on the discipline point you know not possible to be motivated all the time you can be disciplined every day if you want right that is a choice being disciplined even if you don't feel like going going to the gym going for a light run going for one lap is better than doing nothing definitely and you'll always feel happy about it like you know when you really don't feel like doing it and you go and do it you're going to feel better about it you're never going to go and do it and then regret doing it ever right it's exactly the same as like nobody ever wakes up hung over going god i wish i had one more drink last night you know ever right those words have never been said um you know it's always the opposite so i think it's it's the same right it's the same as um i think broadly speaking doing the things that you know to be right is a good idea i like that yeah i like that so i mentioned your podcast untapped and listening to jordan wiley i feel like i gravitate to people almost in a tribal way friends business partners sort of entrepreneur which you sit in as well um and the the adhd piece surprised me because you you said when you're talking to jordan that you've got adhd i didn't know that i was going to in some way kind of almost say have you are you actually diagnosed i didn't i don't i don't i people with adhd please don't take this the wrong way i don't take it particularly seriously right i get told i have adhd all the time right so i went and saw somebody because the my producer at the time at global said you know you should get diagnosed you should get diagnosed and i was like oh a diagnosis sorry sure uh and i said uh but like even if I have it right I'm not going to take pills for it and I quite like who I am so like I don't really I don't feel like I need to change so you know the fact that I have some ADHD related traits that you know you're clearly picking up on is is is neither here nor there but you know anyway so I know I love this I went and saw I went and saw this person I was there for a good couple of hours I did a bit of a test um I think I was supposed to come back for another test which i didn't do he said i said to him just you know you must have diagnosed hundreds of people thousands of people you know he's the the guy uh and i said i said you know what is what what are we dealing with here and he was like oh you categorically 100 have adhd i was like okay great you know what do we do for that like nothing okay uh so he was he was saying you can take um these pills that you know a former person that really helped me with my uh my drinking uh issues that i had uh said you know it's not dissimilar to cocaine the pills i'm not a doctor just for the record uh but you know he basically was just like you shouldn't take those pills and you know and and you know frankly i think i'm fine adhd i think is can be a bit of a superpower I've recently been exploring a lot about psychopathy Psychopaths I have a film coming out This episode is brought to you by Indeed Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C According to Indeed data Sponsored jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs So go build your dream team today with Indeed.

49:00Get a$75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Yes, I listened to you with Davina. You were talking about it a bit then. That sounds fascinating. The film coming out quite soon, actually. And I won't say too much about it because PR is present. But it's really cool. And for people, you know, just generally speaking, psychopathy and i'm not saying that i am or i'm not a psychopath we explore that in the film psychopathy is a really interesting one it's obviously um it's very very heavily stigmatized uh you know to the point where you hear psychopath you just think murderer uh dangerous person um it's far more complicated than that actually a lot of people have psychopathic traits in fact most people would score something on a psychopath test pclr and uh and it's a really interesting deep dive into psychopathy and what it means to be a psychopath and it's um pretty cool i'm going to really enjoy that yeah i think this is where the relatability to you is that you are so naturally curious you'll just you'll open up you'll be going through every single bit to try and understand it the adhd piece for me to almost lean into why i asked you that was uh when i was at an event called ideas fest and a guy called alex partridge who was the founder of lab bible was being interviewed by the guy who created the biggest kind of adhd clinic diagnosis meds company and the conversation where every question and every sort of part of the conversation i was relating to i was like i do that i'm like this and so that and i was i was 46 at that point yeah 48 now so it's a really new thing for me and and you know this whole like labeling and so on i've lived in my unorganized chaos which you probably relate to to not i don't need a label i don't need to i'll never use it as an excuse i've never told my manager i just did that because it made a hd right but i do i recognize that actually and this is probably where you said i'm sort of almost not diagnosing you but that whole like hyper focus relentless energy like set you a challenge you're gonna do it right and that's actually something you've harnessed that's probably where i'm going with it like you have embraced it whereas it's really sad to hear that people that have got adhd have got that sort of thing's really wrong they've gone into addiction which of course you've got your own story with actually there's been times when you have channeled it into the wrong things yeah i'm not i'm not trying to uh you know classify one as any differently to the other or you know i think we're all on a spectrum in some way right and i think i think it's pretty rare that you'd ever find anyone who's just normal right nowadays particularly yeah so like i don't know i think we're each we're all individual yeah we all they're we're all uh interesting in some ways and you know boring in others yes and and uh i i don't love the hi i'm spencer i have adhd thing or hi i'm spencer i'm uh i i have this like i i just i'm just me yeah right so i i don't know like it's not no i think i don't know what it is actually about it it's nothing against ADHD.

52:02It's nothing like it's, it's more, you know, I feel, I feel like I meet a tremendous amount of people nowadays that have ADHD and it's kind of like, it's, it's almost like the first thing you hear. And I don't know, it's, it's almost like that. I don't know. Am I comparing it to like veganism or like, you know, it's like something you have to tell people. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I think, I think you've articulated beautifully. I think I'm not sure about that, but yeah, no, I think you have, I'll tell you why I say that because the, uh, the element of like not making it part of your identity and there's so much to your identity so it's like so for me to find that out hours before we're talking otherwise i may not have brought it up in such a way but because i know jordan and we've had the conversation it's like oh my god that's a whole full circle moment yeah we're two guys that take disproportionate risks yeah um push themselves so hard and then managing that and i think the positive message here for me quite simply is that actually you know there is a lot of negativity around it but that you can you can tell me you can do a lot with it you know you love learning don't you you've got an insatiable appetite for learning there's so many things you've done there's clearly so many things you're going to do sitting here now i would call so many things you have done already successful how do you define success well firstly about the learning my favorite things are the things that i have no idea about you know because it's great you get to talk to somebody that knows something that you don't yeah you know and you and you get to pick something up and you leave the conversation with you know it's part of it's what it's one of the things i love the most about untapped right is the you know i get these incredible athletes and it's very kind when people think i am an incredible athlete i like i there's a nicheness to what i do right you know they're kind of one-off they're unique events you know in the sense that you know often they haven't been done before because there's a very tricky logistical process to it all you know so it's a creation it's a it's a it's it's something else right you know if you look at an alistair brownlee who has done an ironman in seven hours 40 that is that is tremendous athleticism like to the point of you can't believe it like it's not real right like he'll do a he'll do a 4k swim in 45 50 minutes right then he'll jump on a bike and average 45 kilometers an hour and do do 180k in four hours then he'll run a 238 marathon or 240 marathon superhuman forget it right like i'll never be able to do any of those segments in those times let alone all three together so that there are there are complete levels to this stuff ask alistair brown if he wants to do seven an Ironman you know in 21 days ending in Antarctica he'll say no right I just interviewed him so it's interesting to me right because I I find what he does fascinating how does he fuel how does he train how does he recover how do you get that fast like like how long have you put into the you know like for me that's the kind of real that's amazing whereas to him he's like how do you do well you know so I just I I would be more interested in what he has achieved versus what I do which I imagine most people would be i would love my kids to to love me you know for my whole life i think if i could be a pillar to them where they can come to me for anything and we could be friends you know our whole lives that would be a big marker of success i think someone said to me that if your son or daughter wants to go from here with you when they're like 23 that's success yeah no it's amazing i think that that's that's that's a huge job right you know you know setting an example coaching them teaching them in the right ways you know so you're not you're not you're not just there you know you're they they want to they want to they want more they want to learn more you know i've always like admired my family i'd love them to have that with us i'd like i'd like to you know be very wealthy i think it's important i think it buys freedom all kinds of stuff creates options you know i'd like to be able to invest in things i want to invest in you know whenever i feel like it um you know freedom in terms of uh you know uh financial freedom i think it is great you know obviously we do just fine but i'll never get bored of of chasing that and you know building my brands and you know judging success in in that crude way as well i think is i don't see a problem with it at all no um and you know i want to be fit and healthy i think jimmy carr said something quite interesting didn't he when he did he did a podcast saying that if uh uh you know most 95 year olds in the world or most 90 year olds in the world would give you know everything they had to be 30 again i don't necessarily agree with that i think when my time has come it's that's fine you know i'm not interested at all in living forever or you know longevity in the sense that some people are uh keen to live a good life though you know and be healthy you know you know if i if i can if i can remain fit and strong into my later years that's wonderful that's success um and you know always be surrounded by people uh who you love and who love you yeah i think you know i know a lot of very very successful people who ultimately are probably quite lonely you know marriage broke down because they focused on just chasing those billion dollar deals and wife got bored and left and kids are splintered and they have no relationship with the people that should matter the most to them and I think that's really sad.

57:33You can't be a billionaire on your own, it's going to suck, right? Yeah. It might feel nice for a couple of days. Yeah, yeah. What I like about what you're doing is variation in what you do. You get stimulation from your family. get stimulation from your entrepreneur uh exploits your investing the challenges that you but you're you're excited about the stake you can have later your eyes lit up you've got there's a real energy about you where actually you you box things up there's probably quite a big visualization there it's a bit of a cliche question to ask you this but because of the journey you've been on from what was a young spencer um that dare i say was seeking to try and um get the approval of your dad was in any one way probably trying to justify the fact you're not just living but doing amazing things because what happened to your brother uh trying to be dying uh your other brother who was being successful in his own way to have gone through this journey to where you might sit right now the advice to a young dispenser from all the things that you've learned all the things that you've been able to big smile there where there's so much knowledge you've got now what's the one thing that you'd flip back as advice to a young dispenser uh it's tough isn't it because you know young spencer's mistakes are the reason that the you know isn't that the lesson now um yeah so i guess i you know i probably wouldn't try and change too much i reckon i probably exhausted it you know a little too long you know i could have probably i could have probably flicked the switch five years earlier maybe but some people never flicked the switch yeah so so i don't know i don't i don't regret too much to be honest you know and and i think that um i think if i could go back and tell myself to stop taking shortcuts you know stop stop going for the easy win stop going for the easy unbelievable you know too good to be true deal you know stop trying to you know turn your startup into a billion dollar startup in three years you know do it in 10 so ego driven at that point just just relax right just just like be more considered take your time you know try and make a difference work hard make a difference um if you can and you know set good goals and stick with it you know I used to I used to I was a sucker for a quick easy deal you know like you know I just saw a real wheeler dealer kind of you know yeah high margin over here let's dive in there nonsense you know like I think building things takes time and um I fortunately have never fully been impacted by the opinions of others really outside of my family and i'm really lucky about that because i think it's so easy to get sidetracked that whole external validation yeah just just all this like what can i do to be liked right it's just just nonsense right like and you see it all day every day like people saying and doing things specifically because they think it's the thing that they should say to appeal to this audience say what you feel like saying say what's real to you and if people don't like it then tough right there's going to be people that like it yeah and you'll find your crew yeah it's just like i just find um particularly a lot in media you know you just you just see people that are just a bit lost and you know just trying to be liked it's like who cares shape-shifting yeah yeah i don't i don't i just think it's there's so much more value in in kind of doing things that matter to you there's a real sense of fulfillment uh and enjoying what you do you light up when you talk about there's so many other things we could talk about but i'm conscious of time i'm conscious of something i thought of that would be quite a nice way to end is you are a pro now and super experienced at both sides of asking or being asked the questions which do you prefer oh um that's a good question i don't know a lot of our interviews are kind of conversational yeah you know so i think answering the questions takes some pressure off doesn't it yeah so and uh although i'm less selfish than i used to be i still like talking about yeah yeah we do you continue to be evolving and interesting and then you're wanting to like the psychopath thing i'm that's what i'm gonna be it's it's honestly it was so interesting because again not looking to ruin anything there's big waves that run through it right because it's actually what started as a bit of fun just kind of oh yeah like i don't really care like i'm me you know who cares what you know then you start to realize well actually you know what if what if what if you know like it's going to be a tough thing to so anyway you're going into a huge amount of of content with extraordinary people and it's it's coming out uh pretty soon yeah channel 4 i can't wait there there's a relentless side to you there's a there's these massive challenges and in between there's so many other things that you're doing what do you do in your downtime there's never really a full like on the day off there'll be it is like voice note day so i'll fire off a bunch of voice notes that are just on my mind but that's that can be done from anywhere day off looks like uh well nowadays it's taking tea to football in the morning uh because it's typically on a on a sunday uh i'd like to spend as much time with my wife as possible have you ever had a bleaker burger no i'm in no way in business with them unfortunately right plugging and delivering yeah yeah yeah but like a burger yeah so i i eat i eat an extraordinary amount of bleaker burgers right throughout the week but certainly on my day off right so they're these they're incredible they're they're all over the place right so i can't believe you've not had one no it's like a it's like a black sign with a white burger thing outside and i'm gonna see them everywhere now i'm gonna be like you get a double bacon cheeseburger from bleaker burger buns are baked fresh every day again i have nothing to do with bleaker burger buns are baked fresh every day uh and then the meat is like sourced locally there's no like nothing is processed it's all fresh they're so good right so i'll have you're selling this well man yeah i'll have two double bleaker burgers uh in a single sitting with no chips and no milkshake or anything just two double bleaker burgers on my day on my day off and probably at least one other time during the week uh yeah yeah i have probably have four a week um My wife and I would like to go for a lovely meal.

1:03:52We don't get out too much and go on dates and stuff because we're losers at night. So we're in bed at, I want to say, 8.30 every night. Might do an episode or two of something. Might read a book for an hour. But we're lights out by 10. We're asleep, which we love. We're big. We wake up in the morning with perfect sleep scores. That's the dream. you know like that genuinely though that's the dream um which is a very different dream to the dream that i had for years and years far more sustainable one and you look good for it you look super healthy now i've got an 89 average sleep score for the month see you later lads like that's 80 there's a reason why i don't wear one it's the stuff it's the stuff it's the stuff of dreams wow yeah in my house about 11 30 my wife would tell me so should we watch one of the we haven't watched it for however long let's get back into the series at 11 30 you'll start watching me sick terrible it's it's it's a terrible inspiration goals for me 100 like i look it's so anyone cool listening to me giving interviews just it's just gonna be like what a loser but like i'm in bed i'm in bed at yeah early i'm up at kind of 6 30 that banks me like eight eight and a half hours of sleep do you know what i mean yeah but you're buzzing off it you're thriving off it i looked forward to this conversation a lot because i knew there was going to be a certain amount of relatability and the fact that i think something that aligns us so much is that natural curiosity so massive thank you being a busy schedule getting in the way of your steak you made time to talk with did you enjoy it it's a great pleasure i loved it you're you're a gifted interviewer so natural coming from you well i'm super interested in you and thank you that's very good thank you so much for having me pleasure