Tim Gray | Extraordinary Life Stories

0:13Tim, thank you for joining me. Thanks for having me. Tell me, who is Tim Gray? Deep question. Straight off the bat. I am an unbiased mind in terms of any mindset to do with health. However, my bias actually is what works. That's it. I've been through a lot of health issues since 2012. And multiple times doctors and specialists who are very qualified didn't know what to say. or said there was nothing wrong with me when there clearly was. So I follow what works for me. And then I don't want people to have to go through the same **** that I did. So therefore, my content is all aimed at helping people navigate an unhealthy world.

1:00That's it. Brilliant. So what's the journey you've been on from that, from not being well and not getting answers, from ultimately the people you'd expect to get it from? I'm sure there's a lot of people that that resonates with. what journey did you go on to then have that qualifications if you like? Well my background being in e-commerce psychology and data analytics is what helped me and building businesses actually so when I did get ill and one week I was in the doctors every single day in a row and I got to know the receptionist by first name basis where I could text message and this is the NHS at this point before I was private and I realized that like like something's not right here they can't help me and I actually asked the doctor I said to him like what's wrong with me and he shrugged his shoulders and said can't find anything wrong and that's when on the way home and in fact I couldn't drive at the time I was really really not in a good place and I was like I need to take control of this because I was right at the end so I grabbed a pack of post-it notes when I got home started writing down right at the end as in end of your tether you were just yeah it's literally literally at the end i mean despair i said i'm really close to the edge you know implying you know yeah whatever and he said nowhere to turn and i said please don't make a note of that on the system because once it's on the system it doesn't so i coped and i got back got a pack of post-it notes i wrote down all my symptoms put them on the wall and where they stayed for months and put in a cause and effect in terms of like a business strategy meeting i did this with my health and traced everything back to actually where it came from and got testing done myself.

2:36And that's where I realized that actually there is a systems thinking approach. This is before I'd heard about biohacking. This is before any of this Instagram malarkey got big and easy to find everyone's opinions. And I realized that there was a better way. Yeah. You used the term biohacking there. You are known globally now as a biohacker. Explain to me what that actually is. It depends on which country you're in or which part of the media you're associated with. Because, you know, I think biohacking uses a lot of fringe science and there's a lot of snake oil salesmen in it. And with any new buzz term or new industry, whether it be crypto, biohacking, whatever, there's always people that are in it for a quick buck.

3:18So I think it's muddied the waters a bit. For me, my definition of biohacking is health optimization, which is why I call everything I do health optimization, health optimization podcast, health optimization summit. Does what it says on the tin, right? Exactly. Because the goal is health optimization, to improve your health or be the best human you can be. And who doesn't want that, right? That's me. That's anyone watching, listening, surely. Once upon a time, I stood on Oxford Street for a day and asked people if they wanted to biohack themselves. How long ago was this? 2018, less than one-tenth of a percent of people even knew what biohacking was.

3:56So therefore, they can't answer the question of any... Yeah, exactly. And it's like, okay, do you want to optimize your health? 94 % of people said yes. 5 % of people said a loved one. 1 % of people are busy, London, lunch, get out my way, you know, just another person. That's overwhelming, though, right? So it's a tenth of a percent versus 99%. Being a marketer before in my former life, I kind of like, wow, this is quite significant. So we've got 99 % saturation versus a tenth of a percent. So health optimization means doing anything you have to do to optimize your health. And the things that worked for millennia, since the beginning of time, were provided for us on the planet.

4:42The thing is, is we've now introduced so many different things, toxic light, toxic food, you know, utilization of chemicals in just about everything. Our bodies didn't evolve with all of these things. So health optimization is to remove as many things as possible to be as natural as possible, but still enjoying some of the fruits and then doing some of the things to reverse. Like mimicking nature where possible, using technology, reversing the damages of technology, if that makes sense. So if you don't stand in the garden with your shoes off, which is backed by science of grounding, if you don't get a chance, get some grounding bedsheets.

5:21You can plug them in. You're earthed out while you sleep. That's using technology to reverse the damages of modern times. So health optimisation for me is literally doing what you need to do to be as simple as possible using technology or not. Brilliant. is there any stigma from 2018 to now 2025 where a doctor a professor had that sort of gravitas in quite literally the profession that you go to where the same people that you couldn't get answers from that countless others and they have an experience where they're suffering from something they've got symptoms that cannot be diagnosed where do you sit with anyone that would challenge you as not being a doctor, not being a professor, but actually having the qualifications and the experience and the knowledge to be able to help these people.

6:07For me, it's all about the result. That's it. Really, that's it. And we are all very similar, but we're all very different. So for instance, if you have, and I don't ever claim to be medically qualified. I often am asked, oh, are you a doctor? You don't aspire to be there either, right? Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, I don't want that bias, to be quite honest. And, you know, So how I live is trusting people and heuristics around me, such as if I don't know a topic, I go to the person that knows that topic and I either learn from them if I need it. Like, for instance, financial advice. OK, I've studied it a fair bit, but if I want an expert, I use an expert.

6:48OK, if I need something that's really deep in medical science, I go to a doctor. If you go to a doctor and you say to him, I've got this chest infection or I'm not sleeping properly, does he say, what's your diet like? Are you getting any natural light? Are you drinking tap water or filtering it? Are you, you know, just tell me about your lifestyle. No, they don't. They go, here's an antibiotic or here's an antidepressant or here's whatever. okay a lot of people go into that doctor's appointment I'm guilty of this when it happens we wanting to come out with something as well so you're gonna you get a diagnosis and you get you get medicine you get drugs to take which isn't always necessary or needed right no it's not I mean we evolved without it and you know people say oh we're living longer statistically well yes but when you factor in deaths at birth no we're not so it's like we're actually we're using more medicines than ever and I think the statistic is on average there's seven medications or something or other don't quote me on that exact number but for the average person I we didn't evolve with that and a lot of these things cause problems long term and so taking it as natural as you can is the right way forward so to go back to my point is if that person came to me and said Tim can you do me a favor can you tell me how to fix my sleep because I'm awake you know my brain is going 200 miles an hour as I jump into bed.

8:13Well, what would a doctor that is pharmaceutical trained give? By bias, straight away, it's not about the result, it's about what he's been trained with. Here's a drug. With me, I'd be like, okay, do you have a Wi-Fi router in your room? Because that's shown with some people to affect sleep. Is your room pitch black? Have you got lights on in the room? Are you playing with your phone before bed? And do you wear blue blocking glasses to block out the blue light? You know, let's look at what the two or three hours before your bed is and what your bedroom's like. Like, start there. And then if it doesn't work, sure, go to the drugs.

8:55But the point is, is why would you start with a chemical to reverse something that doesn't necessarily need a chemical? You don't have a deficiency of a drug. You have something else that needs figuring out. So my bias is the result. Yeah. It may be the drug, maybe not. Which is reverse engineering, right? That's, if, it might be unorthodox. It might be, like you say, it could be the temperature of the room that they just hadn't thought of. You know, you've got your heating set way too high and they haven't even thought about that because there's a lack of education there, I say. Is there one common denominator, if you like, of people that are coming to you with specific ones?

9:28Could be lack of sleep. It could be nutrition. How best to keep fit. Is there one thing that you feel people are gravitating, wanting answers for? So just be clear, I'm not a doctor, not a medical professional. It's not advice. I'm a data guy that looks at... But that's my point, that you'll have stats. So you'll be like, there's an overwhelming number of people that seem to not be able to sleep. That's where I'm going with it. That's probably the biggest one. Is it? Yeah. Sleep is always... And it's, as we know, like, for instance, after a night out or a bad night's sleep, it affects you the most.

9:58You'll be grumpy, short-refused. some people are living like that and they're actually completely different to how they could be so sleep is the number one thing I would say second is like oh I'm getting too many colds or getting the flu too often or I'm exhausted whatever typically sleep fixes all of that you know for instance my mum had I think it was long COVID but I'm not quite sure on the actual you know it'd been going on for months and I was like well your body's just not recovering from it because you're not sleeping enough. It's like when we measured her sleep with an ultra human ring.

10:34So I actually gave her an antihistamine to have, which helped her sleep for a week and then it was gone. Whereas she had been trying for months to fix this long COVID lack of energy, not being able to go for a walk or anything, leaving the house too much. So sleep is the one that pretty much impacts everything else. I think I get asked that probably on a ratio of seven or eight to one of anything else. Mental health's talked about a lot. And when I say talked about a lot, it's good that it's been talked about now compared to years previous where people would lock up their emotions and so on. So there's an outpouring now of kind of people saying they're anxious and finding life intimidating, cost of living crisis, fallout from COVID.

11:17And of course, there's a direct correlation to what we eat, when we eat, what we do to keep ourselves fit, which of course helps us in our own mental state. so if you flip that to make it myself trying to be the best version of myself but busy life dad husband um you know work can take me all over the place and so on but i want to try and be that best version of myself how what do i prioritize and i'm throwing a lot at you here but it's that sort of almost a daily lifestyle of optimum time to get up is there a morning routine that works for me what should i eat what time should i go to bed is there an optimum there or is it different for everybody?

11:57Yes and no. That's the answer. I get that because everyone's different. But if you were to anyway go into a generic answer to that, could and should work, what would that look like? The first question is, why do you sleep? And I'll ask you this right now. Why do you sleep? For you. To recharge for tomorrow. Okay. How much sleep do you get? Not enough. Answer to your question, between six and seven hours. Okay. How important is your health and energy? It's so important to me. How important is it to go to bed an hour earlier? So it's on me. Completely. It's on me. It's 100%. It's a lack of discipline.

12:37And I am guilty. You're telling me off this. I'm guilty of being on my phone, emails, responding to people, and then it's too late. It's prioritization. That's it. When we... For instance, I'm lucky enough to have had the gun to my head where I was running a company, doing multiple millions, very successful, and then couldn't get out of bed. And I had a gun to my head. It's like, I have got 40 plus people relying on me. I'm at the bottom. I need to sort this out. When you're deficient of an hour's sleep a day and you're just not feeling optimal, that's not a breaking point. It's not something that makes you jump up and go, I've got to change this.

13:19But when people hit rock bottom, for instance, you see people that have had amputations and things. You compare them after the amputation a few years later, once they've done rehabilitation and worked on themselves, they're actually significantly happier than they were before. Because there's been this major event that's made them rethink everything. Your daily deficiency of one hour of sleep isn't a major hit. It's just a small little thing that's impacting you. It's the same with us breathing the air in London. It's terrible air quality, but we don't notice it. So we don't make a difference.

13:55And in psychology, there's actually something called change blindness. Okay. For instance, if you look at your passport photo from 10 years ago, when it runs out, you'll notice a big change in you. Okay. So the next one. But if you looked at yourself yesterday, you wouldn't because the threshold is under 20 % change. Okay. So same with your partner. You know, they always want us to remember, notice that their hair's changed. Well, if it's gone from down here to up here, you're going to notice because it's over 20 % threshold. It's the same with affecting change on things like this. So if you woke up tomorrow after having two hours sleep and you're like, I can't even operate today.

14:31It's breaking point. You're going to go tonight. I'm going to prioritize my sleep. I'm going to have that extra time because I know today was a bad day. But if it's always just a little bit under optimal, you're never going to do anything about it. I got to the point where now I realize the importance of these tiny little wins, compounding effect of all these little things throughout the day that mean I can have a sharp brain, good energy, good immune system, because sleep isn't something you have to do just to tick a box. Sleep is something that should be respected more than anything else that we do in our day.

15:04and the things that lead to better sleep. For instance, do you eat within three hours of going to bed? Most people do. Okay. So your digestive system is going at full speed and it says detoxifying the body. It's digesting food. Okay. Digesting that food, breaking down proteins, neurotransmitters helps the brain fire up. What happens in your sleep? You're not, you're not detoxifying. You're not repairing. You're not repairing the damage that you've done to the body during the day while you're sleeping. You're digesting food for energy at the wrong time. For instance, have you had blue light in front of you before bed?

15:39Oh, your body thinks it's midday because there's so much blue light. So your brain's going, again, neurotransmitters. This is why so many people say they're wired but tired. They get into bed and then their brain starts going and it's like, why do I always do this? You can go and get a sleeping tablet or you can actually figure out the things so that you can respect your sleep properly. That is the biggest change that anyone, especially with mental health issues, depression, any of these, if you respect your sleep and the things that lead to better sleep, your life will have the biggest change of all.

16:16That's my belief. It's compelling. You've articulated it so well. I need to work on that. And that was a big part of wanting to talk to you today very selfishly is what can I learn as well as sharing. so now talk to me about the rest of the day from them so I've gone to bed at the right time and I wake up in the morning my I will try and get get some exercise in and I'll try and get fresh air so that course could be a run in the fresh air or if I've got a gym at home I'll try and get equipment outside tough being English in the winter but you know what I'm saying that's the effort I'm making and then have fruit with yogurt and try and eat sort of good food through the day.

16:54What works for you? And what am I doing stuff right there? Sleep optimization starts with how you start your day. So from the moment you get up, that's when you're working to have better sleep so you can recover better in the evening. So that's this one mindset shift that everyone that's listening to this should understand. So you should really plan your day around what you're going to be sleeping like. And it sounds ridiculous. It's like, well, I want to live alive. I want to live and I want to be awake. Okay, cool. But bearing in mind that you're not going to live as long if you don't sleep properly.

17:26This really is that simple. The biggest longevity hack is sleep. So optimizing your day for that. So for instance, for me, I will start with hydration, first of all. Okay, so it's either water remineralized, which is filtered, reverse osmosis specifically. I'm not putting more chemicals in. I'm not having chlorine in my water, which then helps kill the gut bacteria, which means you don't digest your food as good, which means you don't get your nutrients as good. So you start with hydration. Helps you detoxify, supports your adrenals with the right minerals for your electrical, because our veins and blood are electrical wires.

18:03And so if you haven't gotten enough electrolytes, minerals, then you'll be stressed, you'll be stressing your adrenals. So hydrating on waking is one of the most important things. I then wait usually 60 to 90 minutes after waking to have my first coffee. That's because if you have coffee, as soon as you wake up, you get a cortisol spike from coffee, from the caffeine, and not your body naturally doing it. So then you rely on the coffee to have your cortisol spike to get you kick-started in the day. Whereas if you wait 60 to 90 minutes, your body's already done that for you, and then you get the boost from the coffee without relying on it.

18:37Okay, so these are two fundamental things. Now, in terms of nutrition, as long as you're eating more than three hours before bed, what you do in that window from, you know, say, 9 or 8, 9, through till, say, 6 p.m. is up to you and what you need as a human to operate properly. For instance, for me, I operate best on protein. I'm a very thin type. I have to work very hard to not just be even thinner type. I'm similar to that. Yeah, I would call it ectomorph. And some people listen to this and say, oh, I don't believe in the ectomorph, endomorph, mesomorph style thing. But ectomorphs are generally the skinnier types that can work really hard and never get really, really big.

19:21Okay. As a result, we break down muscle tissue very quickly. Don't put fat on so much. But if we do, we get like a muffin top because of the stress and the cortisol. No one's ever explained this to me before. And I get grief from friends that know I don't have the best diet. And I'm like, why are you not fatter, basically? Yeah, this metabolism and frame and various other things. That can be down to gut bacteria, actually. There's quite a lot of interesting work coming around about the gut bacteria, specifically where they actually swapped obese, I think it was rats, gut bacteria with non-abese, and then the non-abese got obese because of the gut bacteria swap because of the breaking down foods.

19:58So anyway, I like to be protein-led, okay? And that doesn't mean carnivore. It doesn't mean excluding plants. I mean, I eat a well-rounded diet of meat, plants, herbs, coffee, teas, maple syrups, honeys, you know, but protein is the most important thing because it's our building blocks. It's the thing that helps our body repair. Okay. So protein is the most important thing for me. From those proteins, they break down eventually into neurotransmitters, which helps with mental clarity, brain power, or if you have, you know, emotional issues or depression or whatever. again having a good protein diet is important so why i find that a lot of people that have gone full plant-based for instance and i have nothing against vegans or anything like that like or anyone that chooses to not eat meat however the the amino acids you have in plant-based foods generally isn't enough in the right ratios so therefore you find that some people have gone from eating unhealthy but weren't depressed to eating just plants and being quite depressed and frail.

21:03It's not like that for everyone, but it is for a good portion of them, I would say. So really understanding what foods you should be having to fuel your mind and body through the day. For me, my routine then would be after having my breakfast, which would be again, high protein with some carbs, because I need carbs to fuel me personally. I know some people that just, if they have carbs, they get fat straight away. In fact, I lose weight when I have carbs because my metabolism speeds up so i include some what do you feel best from that would be my question are you asking me in terms of what do i do like for instance you say fruits and fruit and yogurt do you feel like that's the best fit for you or do you think you could do better and feel better with something else i feel like i've eaten worse at times i would i would you know i've been guilty of having fry ups in the morning i've been guilty of having you know toast with nutella on and so So if I compare it, which is fruit and yogurt is healthier.

21:58The only challenge with that, me knowing my own metabolism, is I'm hungry within an hour and a half of that. If I have that at 8 o 'clock, I'm not going to make it to lunch. Whereas there's other food I could eat that sees me through. So I might compromise on what I eat in the morning to try and compensate for a busy day, which may not mean I'm eating the healthiest food. Yeah. I mean, the thing that actually triggers us, that are being full is actually protein. I challenge anyone in this room or anyone listening to try and eat 600 grams of ribeye steak. You can't do it. I mean, you have to be a real monster to be able to do that.

22:36You know, I've managed 350 grams. Sweet potato, rice, anything carbs, yogurt maybe. Yeah, it's actually very easy to get through that much. You know, people get through a whole bag of like several bags of stuff like this right really interesting protein triggers our fullness and it's often when we eat for instance more and more and more and more carbs it's when we hit our protein threshold in all of that food that we then feel full understanding that and bearing in mind that proteins break down into sugars eventually anyway it's just a harder process whereas having carbs like for instance if you have a coca-cola if you're feeling faint because your blood sugar's too low and you have a coca-cola it's going to hit you immediately If you have something protein, it's going to take longer to get to that.

23:19So sometimes there are cases where if your metabolism isn't quite right, then you should have short-term carbs. Give it a boost. Yeah. I mean, I like sushi rice, for instance, or sushi. Not the raw stuff because I think it's bonkers having stuff that can have nasty parasites in when you look into it. I'm good at having that almost every day. I go to Itzu around the corner and pile into all the thinking that's healthy. Yeah. I mean, I used to love sushi. I used to have it every day. until I realized that I had mercury poisoning, which was in that post-it note thing we discussed earlier on. The top thing was mercury toxicity.

23:53And when I checked my levels, they were like five times higher than like the average. And that was from having farmed salmon. And if you look on YouTube about salmon farming and what they're fed and where the food comes from and the levels of mercury and stuff in them and the level of parasites in this sushi, I actually got parasites from having sushi. I had to take a pretty heavy drug to actually get rid of those parasites. It affected me very badly. And since then, I haven't had any raw food. Wow. It's a minefield though, right? I mean, this is you. This is your lived experience, your journey.

24:28I'm still eating this sushi thinking I'm being healthy. And that's the challenge, right? There were so many things that I think anyone watching, listening, and I'm guilty of is I'm taking supplements. I'm buying them from a brand that I think is good and has good reviews. but then I could name it to you and you could say this is why they're not it's a real mind is there any kind of supplements that you swear by and that could be you know green juice in the morning it could be bolstering your vitamin intake through or do you just need to focus more on actually making the diet work for you if it's a choice between a pret sandwich a McDonald's burger and sushi, I'd pick the sushi every time, just to be clear.

25:12So you're not doing anything wrong. That's where I've got to, yeah. And that's my world being quite quick, grab food and so on, yeah. So I would probably be a little bit more strategic with that and make sure that I had a meal prep service or something or other so that it's just there ready for you. Or, for instance, when I moved home, I made sure I moved home, I actually brought somewhere near a waitress as opposed to one of the supermarkets so that I had access to the best food on demand so I can just buy one day at a time if I want. So that was a deliberate life choice. Yeah, for sure. And it's funny, I was saying last night to a friend, it's like, I'm so lucky to live here and have all these things around.

25:46I mean, I can order Dalesford milk. And this is very privileged stuff, obviously. I can order Dalesford milk and bone broth to my door in 22 minutes. And I was like, but it's not luck. It's like I brought this place specifically for this stuff. So, you know, Atomic Habits is a famous book, Very famous book. It's set yourself up for success, not for failure, by doing the things that you trip over. And for me, these are the types of decisions that lead to a healthier life. When you're in a city, obviously. You then went on to become incredibly qualified, knowledgeable, but it's not easy to ultimately become an entrepreneur and set up your own business.

26:21You've done that. You've built your personal brand alongside that. You know, public speaking, podcast. I want to know whether that was all planned as part of the post-it notes or certain things started manifesting and becoming obvious to you once you started moving forward? Because entrepreneurial hours are long hours typically and you've got to manage your own biohacking life. Did you skew into that late nights to get the business set up? Did you have any stress coming or did you manage to manage that as well as being successful? That's a great question. I'm just having fun. I'm literally just having fun.

26:57Nothing else. For me, I needed to fix my health and then I wanted to help people not have to go through that. Great mission. I would say in my 20s, I would work 18-hour days when I was in e-commerce and I would never want to be anywhere else. In fact, I turned down holidays and all sorts of things because I loved sitting in front of my computer so much. But now, as I've grown older and I would say, quote-unquote, more successful, it's about, like with you actually, meeting some of your team before coming in here today, they know the vision and the mission of what you're trying to achieve. And when you understand working with people that are smarter than you in other areas and you surround yourself with those people, your life becomes a lot better, a lot easier, and you can help more people quicker.

27:49So I would say, no, I don't compromise on my sleep ever. I do not work too much ever. I would say. So they're non-negotiables? They're non-negotiables. And I have built it from that initially by necessity because I couldn't operate enough. I've got a friend that runs digital courses and he is doing extremely well, like many millions. And I said to him, you know, what's your day look like? He said, I get up, I have one call, do a couple of emails, that's it. I'm just too knackered. He has built his business because he's too knackered to do anything more. But as a result, he's become a delegating machine and utilising or leveraging people that are smarter than him, more energy than him to build him a business.