Toby Anstis | Finding Where You Belong | Extraordinary Life Stories

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0:34Shit! Okay, I'll call you up. I've just got to go and introduce news round. Who is Toby Anstis? This young lad that grew up in Maidenhead always dreamed of being a DJ on the radio and then somehow, 30-odd years later, I've got away with it. You've come through all sorts of battles and you've got scars from a really young age, which started with adoption. I was a really happy kid at school and I was really enthusiastic and full of energy. That's one thing I do have is a lot of energy. But there were, you know, there were bullies. There were two or three bullies at school who would just bring me down.

1:05And, you know, they say, oh, you're adopted, you're adopted. You were faced with this, oh, my God, you know, almost like you've got some kind of disease. So I'm going to do whatever I can to belong. And over years of doing that, you don't really know your authentic self. You're kind of putting on a slightly different face. You found a family. You found a tribal community. Yes. That's where you belong. My dad was a lawyer. My mum was a magistrate. really you know they were decent family there was no one like me in the family that wanted to be a broadcaster now i could have been sort of feeling that i had to people please and go that way but what i did i didn't do that and to this day i'm really i'm pleasing myself what was our therapy session yeah but yeah

2:03sorry to interrupt i've never asked this before but if you can subscribe and follow that will allow me to keep bringing extraordinary guests onto the show now let's get back to it

2:16toby welcome thank you mate thank you for having me on mate i've had you in my head i said this off camera for like weeks and we're finally here okay well let's try and get me out of your head now yeah it's sorry to have burned you for all that time it's been a pleasure tell me hardest question right who is toby anstis oh my god toby anstis is well this this young lad that grew up in maidenhead out in the sticks and always dreamed of being a dj on the radio and then somehow 30 odd years later i've got away with it made it happen and i still absolutely love it i think this is like my 25th year on heart i know it's a long time i need a medal go on bosses what are you thinking about um and when i think about that you know i i still love it as much as the first day i opened a microphone on and that was like at a hospital radio station when i was 14 but still the smell of a radio studio the mics the the technical equipment the speakers the music all of that was just always something from a very young age I wanted so that is what I've done for two-thirds of my working life it's amazing on the radio with a bit of with a bit of sort of amateur tv before that but it was kind of yeah I still I still love it I feel very blessed and I feel at this point in my life I feel very grateful still to be doing it I can feel that there's a lovely humility to you despite huge success and longevity you know like you know that's a that's That's a massive, massive amount of time.

3:51Doing something. But because you love it, you can feel it coming off you when you said that. It's in your eyes. Proper glint. It's still a pinch me moment every morning. I go on the radio at seven o 'clock. You know, to get to do that, to get to start the day with other people and, you know, try and bring a little bit of fun into their life and a bit of energy and stuff like that. That gets me pumped. and it was always about wanting to share my passion for life and music and you know and and good times with a lot of people you know and radio is the perfect way to do it and i yeah i still i'm still completely buzzed out every time i go on until i want to ask you this right when you are bringing joy to all those people hopefully yeah no you are you wouldn't be doing it anymore right yeah well plenty of time for people to have written in and gone yeah there are no other stations out there yeah so but you're in a room on your own you've got producers you but you're not actually with those people and yet with you now you're so personable there's a there's a there's a vibration there's a connectivity how do you heartfelt compliment yeah how do you project that to everyone where they clearly feel it but you're actually not with them yeah no it's the oddest thing isn't it where it looks very strange and very kind of um odd just to think you sit there talking to yourself for three hours a day but you know it's not about that it's it's i'll tell you what it goes back to my first my first early days of working in hospital radio and i worked at wexham park in slough and the first job i got to do was to go ward rounding and i look forward to you know to go there doing that a couple times a week and you go around ward 20 which was a maternity ward and i think 21 at wexham park and they still are i remember it so well proper memory that but you go down there and you you chat with a family just had their baby it's the happiest time of their life and they said oh I'd love it if you could play me this song and then you go back and you give that requested message to the DJ who would then play it out and then the joy and the happiness that would bring to those people directly and you know that stayed with me right up until now where I can still picture that woman or that man or that kid smiling because you've just done something for them on the radio you just played them a song and you said congratulations and that is one-on-one that is for me yes there's video yes there are podcasts and all these different levels of platforms and social media and everything and that's cool it can all live in the same space but for me radio is and will always just be about sitting down and remembering that one person and the the joy you can bring to that one person and it's that and there are lots of those people listening but there's just one hopefully smiling person in my head so it goes back to that and That's my drive every morning, really, to...

6:35I just think about that. There's a visualisation there. Yeah, yeah. And if you reframe that back to the audience, right, they will feel that. So this is an interesting one for you because you just mentioned podcasts or different platforms and social media, the fight for attention. Yeah, there's... It's well competitive, yeah. But you have got your heart dance breakfast slot, which you've done before, for me now. Thank you for the plug. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. And the point is that loads of people have listened to that started their day which is early start for you right yeah and these people are choosing to listen to that and is there a connection there where they are still wanting a human talking to them that's real it's toby and actually there's a lovely longevity piece where they've heard you for years and so on are we still craving that because ai is taking over um there's any number of podcasts and so on but actually there's a consistency that seems to still work with radio yeah well i think more than ever to be honest because there is so much out there there's so much noise that i think if you can be comfortable with someone that's talking to you and you know starting your day you'll be starting you choose to start your day with someone and i think that that loyalty that you can build up and that kind of relationship is really strong i remember when um a few years ago when people at radio stations were getting a bit worried about oh spotify what's this thing coming along people are going to build their own playlists and what's that how's that going to impact radio and i remember saying at that time i said guys i wouldn't stress too much because i really believe the human interaction is something that a bot or anything else or any ai cannot replicate some you know a human with experience with with a genuine desire to connect with people and to relate things that you're feeling to them that either they're feeling on the other end i i think i think that's kind of that's crucial and i still think that's really really important if anything i don't think it's more important now when you say it's almost heightened i do think it's important because you know you get you know people going through all sorts of challenges and tough times in their life and if you can just crack that a little bit and and help people you know through their day then that's a that's a sweet spot to get to and i still think that's really really important i really really do you know as i said there are all these different things coming at you but if you can just enjoy a relationship with that person in the morning or the after whenever it might be i think that's still i think that's very still really important it's still crucial i love that and actually that's a way of bringing your own personal journey in because that what you just said then proper empathy it comes from a place where you know you come through all sorts of battles and you know you've got scars uh from a really young age which started with adoption well yeah i mean but yeah my twin sister and me were adopted when we were babies um and i can i can i could spend all day here talking to you you know through john bulby attachment theories how they impact people um but yeah essentially i mean if you're adopted you are you know your relationship with your mum is seven an early age or whatever age it might be and you know that leaves a bit of a primal wound and that wound never probably completely heals but you have to you know I've had to work on myself and do therapy and and also find a way of dealing with certain situations you know um you know getting bullied for being adopted at school which I could never really understand I was a really happy kid at school and I was really enthusiastic and full of energy that's one thing I do have is is a lot of energy what I don't have hopefully it gets made up in terms of energy and enthusiasm for life and so I would go about my school days and you know as a pretty happy kid and I joined joined school a lot I like studying I like playing a lot of sport but there were you know there were bullies there were two or three bullies at school who would just bring me down and I you know they'd say oh you're adopted you're adopted you're you know a failure you're just a piece of whatever um and that would it's one thing that would that would freeze me to the spot I'd hear them I'd come out of a class I'd hear them doing it or they'd come up and do it in my ear three of the two or three of them I won't mention their names because there's no point but um but that really that was that was really really difficult because you could you feel fine for most of the day and then you were faced with this oh my god you know almost like you've got some kind of disease you know sort like yeah i'm adopted and i i didn't quite know how to to to handle that i'd freeze to the spot and then just wander off a little bit with my head down and to try and get on with my day and i found that quite difficult what would you say to someone i've lived that well i don't that with you you explained that so passionately and i could tell us so much emotion i mean there was imagining a parent or um a youngster that is like the kid that froze that now has done all the work on himself to know exactly what he would do and not be ashamed or embarrassed or something that was out of his control anyway yes what would you say what is somebody feeling yeah someone that's heard that and is experiencing that through themselves or their their own children well it's really difficult because you only i mean i feel i've got more confidence now because i've done the work on myself to try and build up my self-worth and myself you know um my self-esteem which was you know pretty hit you know and you carry that through your life and at some point you have to confront that and you have to work on it so i would just say to someone who if you've still retained feelings like you have them you know you do have to go and talk to someone or just you've got to make the decision i don't want to carry this around this is just interfering with my with my life see you know i i had to make the decision right i think i need to go and sort this out and that's what i'd say just have the confidence in yourself to go and to go and to go and talk it out in the end you'll be so much better for it and i am but i'm work in progress we all aren't we yeah but adoption is one thing we all have our own things going on and i hate to to somehow um make it seem like it's a it's a bigger problem than other people have it isn't we all have our own issues to things to crack through but yeah for me yeah that is one it is a big one because i had a lot of i carried a lot of anger that you know i've been given up really and you know and then you've got all the i had to deal with that yeah and it was it it was a really awful situation for my birth mom anyway so i i feel so much sympathy for her and um there's so much love for her in terms of what she did she had to give us up and um but we've been very fortunate we got two amazing parents that brought us up and they are wonderful but you still you still have to find a way i had to find a way to belong in a nest that didn't necessarily feel you know you don't look like your parents and my late brother um and you they were very different you know in terms of personality traits and looks and all those things so you make you you do feel different yeah so you've got the bullies at school and then you've got your own home thing you think okay i've got to find a way to fit into this and to to belong so i'm going to do whatever i can to belong and over years of doing that you don't really know your authentic self you're kind of putting on a slightly different face not completely but one that has to kind of that you think you need to put to you know to create masking to fit in yeah yeah um whereas yeah it's bizarre when you think about because my parents never said oh god if you do that or if you need to be like this or it was just what i felt and from the way my brain must have programmed those millions of neurons when you're taken away from your mum and given to foster parents and all that noise and all the stuff that's going on the turbulence you know your brain had to program how to survive that yeah so you carry that through and blah you know and um thank you for sharing that i mean that's uh yeah it's i don't know if you thought about this as an analogy before but 25 five years at heart yeah your your issue and and um the trauma from not belonging you found a family you found a tribal community yes that that's where you belong yeah and if you thought about that's that's a lovely because because the child that was not experiencing not feeling that you know you've got people around you that love you well yeah i mean it's potentially no i mean i i always wanted to just share music and my passion for that with people and and and but obviously there is a the return on that being on the air every day is that you know you get people texting and saying oh we really enjoy your show or you're great what a nice guy you are blah blah hopefully um and people just with that that kind of that kind of love that people show is is definitely uh is a you know is has helped me yeah it's a stimulation it keeps you it's a stimulation but and as you say it is like a family it's a tribe you know 25 you know sometimes people said god tell me you're married to your work well my work kind of is like my partner in a way you know we've won highs and ups and downs with it but it's generally just been the consistent the consistent thing in my life and also what's important i'll say this to my girlfriend the other day um that the one thing about radio it's the one thing that i chose my pet my dad was a lawyer my mum was a magistrate really you know they were decent family but in there was no one like me in the family that wanted to be a broadcaster there was no you know accountants lawyers all that kind of thing in the family and that's all good now i could have been sort of feeling that i had to people please and go that way but what i did i didn't do that and to this day i'm really i'm pleasing myself you heard that back for yourself yeah bless you mate no i honestly This is really powerful how quickly you've gone into the work you've done yourself.

16:08It was a therapy session. Yeah, but...

16:15Yeah. Bless you, mate. There's some serious... I have... Take a deep breath. Sometimes you just get...

16:32who excuse me mate i'll be right you take your time but it is the one thing that i could be proud of that i did

16:49i'm proud of you man yeah you went you you you you took control when you could have gone a route that would have uh yeah been so you mentioned that sounds like a math thing that gets me because i think yeah it's been a it's been so important to have that yeah when did you last learn it out i think about a couple of weeks a couple of weeks ago um yeah but it's really thanks for asking it and apologies for like god you know getting quite emotional but not at all it has been it's when you hear you saying that back to me and then i think about it and you know with all the things that you know all the all the highs and lows that has been there to be able to go on the radio every you know every day and actually talk to my lot and they are like a family you know you talk to them and that that that kind of connection has been so crucial it's been it's helped me through so many things it's my happy place and i can go there if i have relationship problems or what whatever problems they might be or stress whatever it is i know i can go on there and i've been able to deliver i hope to to the standard the level that i want every day because i'm a bit of a perfectionist and but i know and i've been through some pretty awkward times i've had to go on the tv or radio and i've had to nail it but i can so i can just get myself focused i can get in there i mean here's this is bonkers but while we're talking about this um when we my twin sister and me we'd we'd always had conversations for a few years about whether we wanted to find our our birth mom and our birth dad and my parents had always been wonderfully supportive and said look we we know you might want to do that so we'll support that um and then we decided right let's do it how old are we we were about 23 24 at the time and me and Kay said right we're going to do this because we've got so many questions whether it's health or families whatever stuff that we need to know we feel we have a right to know um so we hired a private investigator to find our birth mum and it didn't take a lot of time as it wouldn't because you've got the internet and stuff we had enough information to give the investigator that you know names and stuff that we could find her and I was on telly after every afternoon on BBC one at that time so I was doing children's BBC and I the investigator been working for us for a couple of days and I got the director said Toby can we let they just had a phone call in in makeup and your sister's on the phone I think she really needs to talk to you I'm like oh my god is everything all right said just you need to go in there so we were just kind of rehearsing the next link we were going to do which as it turned out was a really big gear change into a very serious news round extra about something or other I can't remember anyway so I dashed out to the makeup room um my sister was sort of in tears and quite emotional she said Toby I said oh my god are you okay you okay what's what's going on they found our mum oh shit okay I'll call you I've just got to go and introduce news round can we chat about this later it was like that and I had I'd just been told you know pretty groundbreaking thing well life-changing thing in so many ways and i thought okay now i've got to park that and i've got to go into a look down the camera lens and on bbc one and introduce after being told that so do you see what i mean you know broadcasting you can go and do that or particularly with radio you can jump in and you're kind of um you can blank everything else out yeah and you can just go into your it doesn't mean that you can avoid what's going on because when you've done your radio or whatever you've got to come back face it yeah but at least it's been there it's been the constant yeah and i'm so again i can say you know i'm and this is this is with no arrogance whatsoever i'm just proud of myself to have pursued what i really wanted against so many odds and and done all right in it you know and that that if anything is going to lift my esteem it's that it's knowing that and holding on to that it's inspiring to listen to for me for anyone else yeah that i see your vulnerability as such a strength we're living in a time where something called a manosphere has been allowed to happen through the algorithm and there's guys who would never allow themselves to let that emotion i don't care you know because it's you know crying's like laughing you know it's it's it's just a human emotion and you can't hold these things back and i'm i'm glad you asked the question and i'm glad that i don't feel embarrassed to sit there and cry i don't i don't mind what people might think about that it's there's the wound and there it opens up and there and there you are as this person it's become more and more your authentic self and that is quite a thing to to get your head around and to and to be happy about yeah you know your relatability and your authenticity is is infectious and you've given permission for other people yeah to witness that to see it and and and the world didn't end you You know, no one told them off.

22:01You know, all the things that are sort of constraints and barriers to why people lock up their emotions is why I love the fact that you love is probably the wrong way of saying it. But two weeks ago, you obviously let emotion out again. It wasn't just two years ago. You're allowing yourself to do that. No, definitely. I mean, this is quite a journey the last few months because I just thought I wanted to pop back and have some chats with a therapist, just, you know, covering off all sorts of things. And, you know, it's a stage of life. It's what you're thinking, what your next chapter might be.

22:28It's all sorts of things going on.

22:32And that brings a lot up, you know. And I have, you have to face those things. You have to allow yourself just to go like that. There's no point in, I probably couldn't, I couldn't have done this, John, a few years ago. I couldn't have done it. I was just too, wouldn't have been able to open up quite as much. I've had to give myself permission to do that. and also just to be able to talk openly. I mean, I was, stupidly, I was kind of ashamed about being adopted for a lot of my life. And only in the last few years have I, that somebody can say, oh, you're adopted or I can talk about it and not feel like I want the earth to kind of freeze up or I want to drop through a trap door.

23:16You know, there would be, there'd even be family occasions where somehow my twin sister Kate was always a lot more confident about it. She didn't mind talking about being adopted. when she was at school and growing up, whereas I was like, God, no, don't mention that. I was really, whether it was because of bullying, I don't know. The way I was, I didn't want people to know that I was different to make a big thing of it, whereas Kate was so much more authentic about it. And I somehow felt like, God, I didn't know. I didn't want people to know about it. Let them in because somehow that would just be a badge that wasn't necessarily desirable.

23:52And that's so ridiculous when you think about it. You should be... Yeah, but you were doing the best you could at the age that you were. And those kids, there's a feeling that can come here. Bullying is often not just about what's actually said, it's about how they made you feel. You were made to feel different at that point. It's heartbreaking for me to hear that you were a happy kid because your positivity, and when he's that word again, is infectious. The way that we've been connected by someone, I'll call him out, Tim Ferriss. He's like, you're going to love him. He's just the most positive person.

24:20Oh, Tim's great, yeah. And you had that from a young age, and it was potentially beaten out of you. You stayed on course to try and keep your positivity. You're here now giving positivity out to me, to other people this morning, whatever else you're doing this afternoon. That's the best compliment I can give you. Well, if it does help someone, then there you go, job done. I can only talk to you as honestly and openly as I do. Can I jump in? I think it's really important that, you know the expression, you've changed. The best compliment to you is that the young kid that was like, shh, don't talk about that.

24:53It's your auntie's sister and so on. To now, talking about it now, is that you've done the work on yourself. You've spent the time, rather than boxing that. Because that does happen with people. They box it up and do not go there. I will not open it, you do not open it. And then there's a lack of strength there. So that's where I was trying to say your vulnerability is such a strength. I feel that. We all as humans like to tap things under the carpet. And ultimately that's never going to be the healthiest way to deal with stuff because they'll just come back to bite you. and and i had this big juggernaut of emotions to deal with and and and i've had to attack and pick that off and um and work through stuff yeah and oh it's great to get to a point where you feel i've definitely improved you know i've got some i'm such i'm i'm i feel so much more me and it you know you have to my therapist talked about this you you have to marry the young lost sort or Toby with the adult that's done pretty well because you can you can carry these sort of past journeys with you you can carry this narrative from the past if you just if in until you get to the point where you just have to let that go but you have to kind of interface this young how you were once and those feelings that you had with with your life now and try and feel proud about you for what you've done and and feel confident you know for like a you know a um you know that a proper adult you know it sounds a bit odd but you do have to find that person you know and um i think that the lovely thing for for me personally you know being on the radio is i feel so natural at my most natural you know talking to you is lovely as well but i on the radio i just feel it's such a lovely place to be to have that connection and also to feel what other people are feeling as well.

26:40I really love that intimacy of it. The audience will feel that. They will feel that. I hope so. Do you have it where people, I'm sure you have this, stop you in the street? And that was a crap tune you played at 10 past eight. But that relatability piece is almost like they know you. I imagine you embrace that, whereas some people would be like, that was my work. Yes. I've left that and I'm trying to get to M &S now. Actually, I bet you probably quite like that. There's an element of familiarity where these people are kind of like, you know just as if they know you because of how much you give of yourself yeah well i think the biggest compliment is when people say god it's like having a mate every morning you're so friendly and so warm but people say that i can't be anything else i was never going to be a gritty left field comic or you know irreverent sort of you know wacky or you know these kind of you've not tried to be anyone i've never tried to be anything else i mean i think when you when you're growing up you know when i was 14 i was honored to be steve right in the afternoon you know made a terrible visible attempt at doing that you know there are because all you've got are these people that you looked up to you hear every day and you try to filter some of those things into your broadcast but then you gradually find your own personality and how you're going to relate that to people and how you're going to how you're going to do that on a microphone as you say it's a very kind of unnatural thing to to think about something you're just in a room talking to nothing but you're not in my mind no and you know the other thing you know it's as i go you know going back to that ward rounding and seeing those happy people that you just take a request from and then you pay for you know that will always be with me war 20 wexler park was so probably maternity you know always tv i never found the same it never felt like home radio feels like home to me how do you deal with it really had tv never tv never did i was thrust into it not thrust into it against my will that's Well, I want to go there.

28:33Because you obviously put yourself in a position to get into TV, but so many people wanted to, want to. Oh, God, yeah. There's a whole rejection piece there, which goes back to the kid that was bullied that didn't want to put themselves in a position of not belonging. But you put yourself in a position to face rejection. Yes. Because it was brutal, right? Well, on that side of the thing, on the one hand, you've got this kind of feeling of being able to share with people. And, you know, it's like a mutual love or respect, whatever you want to call it, with your listeners. um but at the same time but the industry outside of that little bubble that you're in is brutal broadcasting is but so but i didn't kind of choose to go i mean i i was sending out demos from hospital radio and getting rejection there after rejection letter and then i went to uni and studied psychology um and which of course i was going to study psychology of course i was going to major in developmental and john bulby attachment and adoption because i was so interested in people like me i wanted to learn about it i spent three years learning about it but um and then just out of nowhere this uh i don't know how to cut it i've always tried over the years to try and cut this condense this story of how i ended up on the telly but partly partly i would say you know talking about too much because it would just really piss people off that are desperate to be tv presenters but essentially i was just in the right place at the right time that old horrible old thing right face right place right time but I was just sort of spotted by a producer at the BBC who decided that I was going to be the fit exactly what he was looking for as a presenter to join Andy Peters and Philippa Forrester on Children's BBC back in the day the 90s and and and it I was asked to do a little show reel and then that went in and it was an awful the BBC they asked me I was it's funny I said oh we should film you changing a wheel on a car because if you can make that vaguely entertaining and we've got I've got my car here and we can do it then you might you might stand a chance but it was a it was a bloody awful demo you know you saw something yeah yeah and I couldn't get the wheel off um maybe that was it yeah but maybe that was it just me swearing just walking off and getting a coffee they'll leave that i'm going to get a pasty you know but um so we send that into the uh we sat there and then they madly asked me for an interview at the bbc so i went to television center and did a little audition and um felt that i'd gone really badly and this is all surreal because i'd only just graduated not long before that and we're all there was in a house share with some people we'd all from some four other graduates and we sat there and the phone went and it was paul smith at the BBC saying Toby yeah hi is Paul you just you just came to an audition this afternoon yeah crap wasn't it he went well how do you feel it went well not particularly well and I'm not on the phone and everyone's around me going what is it what was it who was it Paul from the BBC he said well we'd like you to join the team I'm like are you having a laugh and and that was it and there's no structured way of getting into to be a tv presenter or radio presenter there were going to be bits of like a mad ones like that the universe doing what it does um and i ended up yeah landing this job on i got a six-month contract i thought after that i'll just go back to my graduate sales job and it was a learning curve and i did that for six months and then they kept me on and uh yeah and ended up doing a bit more stuff at the bbc and and hi ryan reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

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32:41See terms. you know we were on every day so you got quite well known doing the broom cupboard every afternoon you know with 15 million people watching neighbors and you're on just before that every day so whatever you put in the broom cupboard it was going to be even if it was a puppet it was going to get famous and the puppets got more famous than us to be honest but we um um bloody hard vox um but also and and but essentially i did about eight or nine years of various i then went on to do the lottery and work on other bits and bobs at bbc and other shows which i'm very lucky to do but i never felt completely comfortable doing telly and that wasn't great i don't think i was great at it but i that was my means to get on to heart and to get a tryout on overnights and that was so i ended up effectively doing eight or nine years of telly to get the job that i really really wanted isn't that what it's about i really wanted yeah you went back to your roots you went back to what excites well yeah and a lot of people so you would have got a lot of experience you'd had a lot and you also then that the intrigue of tv that may not have happened through the stars aligning for you there may may well have been an intrigue to go into it may not have been the experience that you had yeah that's true it's all part of your it's very true but the irony of doing the radio was that when my agent at the time nige called heart up and he passed him and said look please can you give toby a try out he really wants to be a dj and they said well we know i think toby is a bit too much of a tv boy and now look at the numbers of tv people that are on the radio because there's not as much tv so they're trying to get on the radio whereas for me my passion was always for doing the radio so i did that way around i yeah and you're there because you want to be there well i yeah i do you know i i i do radio because i generally absolutely love it and adore it it's all i ever wanted to do it's not just another bit of work for me every day it's not just part of a it's just my main thing that i adore and i'm yeah so grateful to be doing it another 25 years oh I don't know about that not on heart I've joked before they'll have to wheel me out of that building at global but no I mean I always point is there's no there's no nothing in your eyes it says to me that you know I give it a few more years and so you just keep going well that's up to not up to me necessarily you would keep doing it I I would oh I will always do you know you always think maybe I should change and try something else but no because what I know and what I love and I'm still getting better all the time I still do shows and think god that wasn't the best show so I can't wait to race in the next day and do a better show and not make the same mistakes and i just i'm always searching to do the best show i can do can you give me an example i'm really interested in that yeah that's that critical version of yourself and what what can you get wrong on radio what do you want to get better oh i could do i could i could talk about something and think that wasn't really i could talk about something and then when i've done the link thing that wasn't the best out i could have done i should have done that as the out there was a there was something there was a thing staring at me there and why didn't i pick up on that i should have finished with that or why did I do that why did I tease the song now I should have just left it at the end of that link and then just bang you know there were lots of little things or um or I just won't have sold even if I don't sell a tune you know I'm one thing I hate hearing on the radio is just lazy laziness and we've all been I if if I ever am you know if you just people that just go on there and say oh i know next up cold play and and living joy that that that to me why would i want to stay as a listener when i've just had that that's just laziness yeah you are literally i want to say oh my god next 95 that was just such a big year for dance music one of the standout tunes it's going to absolutely rock some memories for you know in a couple of minutes you know if i haven't done that i say god to come on you got pull yourself i love it there's a bit setting the scene which you can do because you've got the knowledge and the passion for it yeah so why would you not but i get it but i think that's always the driver for me because i'm so because i love doing it so much i don't want to let them down in the audience i don't want to let myself down so i'm always just wanting to get better and i listen to other people and some of them oh god they're so good why can i be that good you know they might talk about something that i didn't they really they took that that subject matter and they really smashed that but can i say why didn't why didn't i do that but i'll do that i'll do that with this conversation later and i'm thoroughly enjoying it thoroughly present with you now but they'll be a part of me sitting somewhere later be like oh yeah why didn't and is that not part of what makes us trying to always be better you're a perfectionist yes but with but without any um complacency or arrogance which is the opposite of what we're doing isn't actually nice to see where for whatever reason people uh looking at us listening to us we think we're doing really well and we think we're the best we can be that's that's not that doesn't work actually someone that is just aspiring to always be better yeah and is perhaps managing the self-critical because i can be really hard on myself and i'm pretty sure you can yeah that's that's probably my biggest challenge yeah you know and and not focusing on that no i mean i can do a bad i can do what i consider to be not a strong enough link and i carry that all day and it's like god i can't get on the air soon enough to put that right not that i do the same link but i just don't want to come out feeling that way again i have to go and smack you know go and punch a bag in the gym or something for about an hour what to get at me and then and then and then um it's not it's not yeah but i still enjoy and love it every morning but there's this degree of come on stop it you know don't let yourself down again you know you need to do that better next time it's really really bloody annoying having that but i guess that's the you know it's like you with your job me with mine it's always been about delivering a good radio show it's not been about the fame tv was never about that that came by accident there and then you got well known from doing it and you make a little bit of a mark you know doing radio it's a it's a job it's one it's well it's more of a way of life but i I love doing it but I take it very seriously and I take it there's an element of responsibility as well if people with all the stations they've got if they choose to lock you know to tap hard dance in the morning or club classics on a Friday night you know they're making a choice you can't let them down or they'll punch out of that and that's where this whole thing or that link wasn't good enough they can just punch it I can't allow I don't want to show anybody the door the doors open they come and I want to make them welcome I don't want to give them any kind of excuse to leave that room and if i if i do i can't i can't legislate for the music necessarily i have a i have a i have a little bit of input but generally that that cut that's you know the playlist put together by people that know what they're doing um but if we let them down if it's music i can't really but i but i control what i say just about what i do so that if i get that wrong that's my own bloody fault you control the controllables you control control those variables you really care about it yeah and you can't worry about you know they say you know don't worry about what what you can't change well that's still bloody hard to stick to that because yeah there are things i know i can't change but i still want to change them but you've got to take that's that's energy that you'll just waste you need to expend the energy into and really focus on what you know you can change or make better and just throw everything at that and then at least you know you've done you've given everything what i've all the way through my life one thing i can say is that whether i've done it badly or well i've given it 100 yeah every single filming thing every single radio show whatever it is i've can be proud of i've given it everything yeah if it didn't work out well i couldn't have done anymore i shared with you before we started filming one of the the things that really piqued my interest was how you stay relevant because a lot of people A lot of people talk about that.

40:34A lot of people talk about the whole staying relevant. And you said, what does that mean? I don't really know what that means. You just answered it beautifully. You care every single day about what you do. You've never got any complacency. Is that relevance then? Yes. Yeah. Because the whole principle of what you're doing on the radio and anything else you do that interacts with people, it means that people can feel it. If you'd switch that off and be like, I've done this for 25 years, I've done this for 30 years, it kind of comes naturally to me. I don't need to think too hard about this. No, people will feel that.

41:06I honestly think that's the answer because I was quite thinking, that's going to be so interesting for me. And what would you say? You don't even know how to answer, but you feel it, you do it. Yeah. When you go on the radio tomorrow morning, for the, you tell me the hundred thousandth time, it will be really important to you. It will mean the world to you in that moment. I think everyone will realise, everyone knows that. Because I care. Yes. I care about it. It's that, you know, it's a big job to do that every morning and you've got to do it well but you the more prep i do the more things i listen to the more things i go and see you know the better i know i'll be at it yeah um and that's the deal you know i open the mic every morning and i'm in like a happy place and and the whole thing about because i think when people talk about being relevant it's you know they talk about you think about pop styles like madonna or kind of people that reinvent and they'll have to go down a different track they have to change their style of music and it might work or it might not all their look whatever they want to do everyone's entitled to whatever they think they need to do but what it what is what are they doing it for what are they trying to do you trying to stay i think what's important is that you kind of keep a balance between being authentic but keeping up you know you i'm really um i'm obsessed with language for example you know when i hear other presenters on the radio i you know some people it's the word you use i think around your links and stuff and and and language evolves as well you know the 25 years i've been on heart well certainly in 2001 i wasn't saying i'll jump on the text or the whatsapp you know people were faxing requests in 2001 we had a bloody fax machine but there's just you you just have to i think just if yourself if you're aware of what's going on in the world it's not like i'm trying to be 30 again when i started i'm not i'll never try and do that that just would sound awful but you just need to be aware of what how people are talking about things and how they're describing things without stepping out of being your you know authentic you know you've got to still be um people can see through you know things and people can't they yourself you have to be awareness is you have to be you have to be um again it's another thing i don't you know you can hear people on the radio and i don't believe what they're saying about a song or something but there are other people that really do connect yeah i think you would notice that more than most i think i really know i noticed it a lot as well yeah you would because yeah you know the heart and soul that you put into uh and also you've got the knowledge so you'll be able to i listened to this tune first because you did whereas perhaps some of these people have come in and they just want to be famous yes on the radio whereas you come in with the love of music, the love of entertaining people.

43:52We're out of time, and I don't want this to name. I know. I'm just checking you all right, because you have been so vulnerable. God, yeah, yeah. And I've loved it. I feel like you've given me 110 % of yourself, and I just wanted to thank you for that authentic version of you. Thank you for having me on. I mean, I've looked at your podcast. The people have on it. It's amazing. David Dean, you had on it. I'm an Arsenal fan. It was really interesting. hearing from him and James Haskell, the big rugby player, and his vulnerabilities. And, you know, we've all got them. And I'm not going to say, you know, to be able to be open and honest with you and chat about stuff, I mean, it's something that I couldn't always do.

44:40So for that reason, it is quite emotional when I hear myself saying those things to you. But I'm also really happy to let myself, you know i'll dive in yeah well i thank you for that no it's it's it's a it's a pleasure i'm sorry if i did get quite emotional but you know when you hear those things it's it's it's like um it you know when you talk them out and um you get that sense of god you know i've done i've sort of i've not i've done it i've made it i've i've done 20 i've got well i've done 25 years and i'm still going um and you're right i still don't i it's in my blood anyway i'll never yeah you'll be wheeling in in the wheelchair mate yeah i mean people will be like you know terrified of the day that you're not there anymore it could become i don't even know i'll be terrified i think i'll what are we gonna do where's our mate oh no i mean you know people get on with their lives so then they you know they yeah well i don't underestimate how important i think you are to a lot of people.

45:38Oh, well, that's really kind. To make time to film today. You'll set me off again, bud. No, I mean it. I really do. I think that's how you come to me. Right, okay. And that's what I'm experiencing now. So when I have the time to listen to the radio, and I love dance music, so that's my go-to. And, you know, there's lots of people that clearly, you know, value you, love what you do. Yeah, I hope so. And keep on rocking, man. Keep on doing it. And thank you for making time for this. No, thank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Cheers, mate.