Ayao Komatsu: aiming high with Haas

31:20And also then I thought, secondly, for people to see the enjoyment, smile on his face, you know, how much of a passionate guy he is, both internally and externally, I saw that be really, really positive. Lots of team members don't see that, like I said, let alone the fans. It's amazing. so we did a shakedown at Silverstone because he was worried that I said, look, Gene, don't worry, we'll make it as simple as possible. We do a shakedown at Silverstone and then make sure you're comfortable with seat, all the controls and everything else, then did it. And then when he got out of the car in this Silverstone shakedown and he was just beaming with a smile and he said thank you to every single mechanics and shook their hand.

32:01That never, ever happened. Even that alone was for me worthwhile doing because our guys the guys actually building the car realized oh wow this is gene the side of gene that they've never seen and then we actually went to goodwood and then exactly the same he was beaming with smile enjoying it you know he had a lot to say about driving the car and then again you know said thank you to everyone should come with everyone back like when the fans were there like a good dude as you know fans can get really close right which is brilliant about good dude. I said to Gene, there's fans out there. Do you want to take some pictures?

32:36He'd never ever do that here, like race weekend. But he took so many pictures together. So he signed so many autographs, interacted with fans. That's the side of Gene that you don't normally see. I was so glad we got that out of him. And then people from our team experienced it. And the fans actually saw it as well. So that was my, let's say, aim. But then, yeah, it's just everything helps, right? You know, I really wanted people to see, like, look, behind this really private guy, quiet guy, introvert guy, this is the, you know, exciting, let's say, enthusiastic side of him. Then for people to see that and experience is amazing.

33:17And also the fact that he spoke with so many mechanics there, right? When he comes to the racetrack next time, there's more familiar faces, more people that he's comfortable talking with. that's good for him to be integrated more into the team at the end of the day like this is his team this is what he's created but he's just such a private guy if you don't kind of like ask him or get that out of him he's never gonna come by himself to say i want to do this yeah you see i mean but um that was brilliant really good i don't rate my chances of getting him on f1 beyond the grid right you have to private for that look can we talk about Toyota now yes and in the context of Gene right he came he drove at Goodwood if it needed reinvigorating it I get the impression that his love of the team and of Formula One was helped by driving the car do you think he's as committed to Formula One now as he was when he started the team?

34:18Because a lot of people are saying that the Toyota deal is just a precursor to him maybe selling a share of the team. I'd love to get your thoughts. No, no, he's more committed than ever. Really? Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, he came into Formula One when the times were very, very different, right? You know, 2016, it was nothing like now. So he came in that more, let's say, I wouldn't say difficult time, but more challenging time. And then he went through that COVID period of 2020 and 2021, came through that, stuck with us. And then now he's enjoying it more. He's enjoying some success. It's just more fun element is there as well as being competitive.

34:58And he understands Formula 1 much more than before. And he's absolutely committed. Yes. So what about the Toyota deal? What does Toyota bring to Haas? Yes. So our foundation is Ferrari, right? the way we set up from day one we couldn't have done it with Ferrari we don't exist without Ferrari so we have our power supplied by Ferrari gearbox and suspension supplied by Ferrari so Ferrari is our foundation and we also have an amazing technical partner in a company called Dallara you know so we work together on the chassis side we now do lots of designs but Dallara still does brilliant job in manufacturing we work all very closely together so we those Those are, let's say, our foundation's technical partners.

35:42But if you look at the areas that Ferrari doesn't touch or cannot touch because of regulation, or the areas that is not Dallara's expertise, there are still plenty of areas that we are just doing it on our own. And I saw it would be really beneficial to have a strong technical partner to help us move forward in those areas that either Ferrari or Dallara is not working with us. So that's where Toyota comes in. So actually have an amazing partnership with these three greater technical companies. So what is Toyota bringing? You've now got a TPC program. See, again, that's one clear, clear advantage because we always wanted a double TPC team because not just running the TPC car, but actually educate people, grow people.

36:32and then giving opportunity to younger drivers. That, again, we couldn't do it by ourselves, but thanks to our collaboration with Toyota, we could do that. So that's huge. And also the simulator. We use a simulator in Maranero, but that's logistically, it's quite challenging. So we always wanted to have a simulator in the UK, where our main factory is. So we are doing that now. So again, that's thanks to Toyota. So then there's a few other areas that we are working with, but it's great. We're just looking at what Toyota can offer, what Toyota's good at, what our team needs. And then it's those areas where it's easily identifiable, we're working together.

37:11Are they going to help manufacture any parts? Yeah, some of the manufacturing, yes. In Cologne? Some of it in Cologne, yeah. But again, it's not the objective to say we need to use the Cologne facilities they need to manufacture. It's more, let's say, organic in the sense that, okay, so Akio-san's direction. Akio-san, by the way, is such a great guy, the chairman of Toyota. His direction to his guys is basically make HaseFan team competitive. So it's not objective in itself to say, okay, you have to use that Köln facility. You have to use that facility to manufacture something. No. What do we need to make the HaseFan team go faster?

37:49What areas are we weak? Have we got either people or capability or facility that is able to help in that area from Toyota side? if answer is yes, let's do it together. Like TPC, you know, we wanted to do it, but we just didn't have the financial means or anything to do it. Then Toyota helped us financially and put the structure in place, etc. And they're having that development program. I mean, Ayo, when you look at Formula One today, the level is extraordinary. And particularly when you look at the new regulations in 26, the reliability that everyone's had. Just wind the clock back 10 years, that wouldn't have happened.

38:26The level is so high. can Haas with its current setup challenge the likes of Ferrari, of Mercedes, of Red Bull? Or do you need a fundamental shift? Like, do you need a new factory? Could we ever see you move lock, stock and barrel into the Cologne factory in Germany, Toyota's facility there? Or I don't know when you look at the next five years what does Haas need to do and what needs to happen for you guys to be able to challenge for wins let's say yeah definitely we need to be constantly evolving and then for me to sit here and talk about the wins is too far away for sure so our medium-term target in the next three to five years is basically trying to establish ourselves consistently at the front of the midfield pack, right?

39:22That's where we need to be year in, year out on the merit, not because some team didn't do a very good job. You know, on the merit, everyone's doing amazing job. We need to be at the front of midfield consistently in three to four years' time. That's our aim. And then from that aim, of course, you work backwards what this organization needs to be, how it needs to evolve, how quickly it needs to evolve. So that's what we're doing. but then for me only when you get there in the three to five years time then we can look at okay what are we still lacking to challenge for podiums on the merit to challenge for the race wins on the merit there's of course a big gap you know big four teams are big four teams but it's not everything about the size but again it's not to say we just need to increase the numbers of people or not to say we need to manufacture everything internally that that's not the answer right but we got to look at where we are in let's say three to five years time once we establish ourselves front of the midfield consistently year in year out I'm sure it will become actually obvious what gap we need to bridge to be able to challenge for podiums.

40:26Do you have any idea sitting here now what that might look like? Yeah but I don't think it's very relevant in the sense I think you got to have a broad idea, but like, you know, I say like objectives, yes, definitely got to have long-term objectives, right? Let's say you have a 10-year plan, but for me, it's no point having such a concrete plan five years beyond, year six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Why? Because what you need to do on the year five, year six is heavily influenced by year three or year two. So every day you make some adjustment then but the year two year three year four you can still have a reasonably concrete plan then you can make adjustment but what we need to do in year seven for example because it's so far away depending on the direction we took the steps we take on the year two year three this will change a lot so you got to have a broad plan but it's just no point for me to have that concrete plan can we talk drivers sure you first of all How did you enjoy driving?

41:29I was very, very cautious. Again, to start off, what a privilege. You know, it's not every day. I should just add that you drove with Gene at Goodwood. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. No, it's not every day that you get to drive a Formula One car. Was it the first time for you? Of course. Yeah, yeah. It was incredible. Incredible. But yeah, I just had to drive very, very cautiously. But the thing is, thanks to some of my driver stroke riders friends, they all scared hell out of me. Saying, ah, good, this is the most dangerous place. It's such a low grip. If you go off, you can really damage the car.

42:06And then again, even, who was it? Kazuki Nakajima, the ex-F1 driver. He was telling me how slow I need to drive to be absolutely safe. Because he showed me a video, but I think it was a Pierre Gasly driving Alpine or something. And it looks very slow. and said, yeah, but Ayao-san, even a professional driver has to drive this slow, so you've got to be really, really careful. So I was really worried about it. And then the first drive, and I said, actually, grip is fine, but then, because you never know, right, I just drove very slow and came back and then bumped into John in the toilet and said, how was it, John?

42:39And then John said, oh, the best grip ever made. It's such a great concert. Thanks, John. I just wasted one run because I listened to your Scare Manga history story. By the way, I love the fact that you and John McGinnis, the Isle of Man TT legend, are mates. How do you know John? I love motorbikes, right? And then the sad thing is I haven't been to Isle of Man, but my kid's been twice. But because I obviously got a minor thing called Canadian Grand Prix that used to coincide with Isle of Man TT, I never made it. But John's such a great guy, humble, down-to-earth guy, eats for English breakfast.

43:16It's so funny. But then he's got belly but he's an amazing rider right amazing yeah amazing guy are you a rider are you a biker i used to ride bikes when i was young i was terrible absolutely terrible i crashed so many times on track or we just no no i was nowhere near good enough to ride on the track i crashed so many times on the road so no no motorbike for me i i never felt in one with motorbikes but then somebody like john you know i said to him he's just incredible and i can't remember how old he is now, but I remember talking to him, was it last year? He was doing still PBs at his age. I don't mum, you know, places where you get scratches on your helmet.

43:58It's absolutely crazy, like the commitment. But he loves it. You know, he really, really enjoys it. He's just a genuine, genuine, genuine guy. Yeah. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes of this show, booking guests across time zones, tight turnaround edits, and constant time management. And when things get chaotic, you realise pretty quickly how important it is to have the right person on your team. If I had to hire someone tomorrow, I wouldn't just want a good editor. I'd want someone who understands pace in long-form interviews and can work fast under pressure.

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46:49well look what about the race drivers right Oli Berm and Esteban let's throw it back to 25 first of all the job they did for you last year two drivers at very different stages of their Formula 1 careers aren't they let's start with Esteban yeah that is when we signed Esteban, I wanted Esteban was his work ethic, right? And he's clearly very, very fast when he has the car he likes. He's a proven quality race winner, podium finisher, scored so many points over the last 10 years. And I know that he doesn't leave any stones unturned. And as a team to grow, somebody like that is what I needed. And I knew that we are signing Oli Behrman, which is an exciting rookie.

47:31So I really needed somebody with experience, but still young enough and really hungry for success and then Esteban was the one so that's why signed him and then especially earlier in the season he was doing really really well but again you know from that moment in Melbourne he gave us the data he gave us the feedback we needed to make basically a decision how we're gonna let's say modify the car for Suzuka right so he played a pivotal role in that and also Shanghai he drove really really well and scored points for us so when he's got the car or even Melbourne of course he didn't have the car but he was very very good at giving us feedback and then when the car was much better in Shanghai it's the same car but just because the truck hasn't got the input to provoke these dynamics so car was behaving okay at that instance Esteban was brilliant right then scored our first points of the season again And Monaco was another highlight earlier in the season.

48:30But then at some point, we had too many issues with the brakes that we couldn't totally identify. So he was struggling with that. And then when he is not confident under braking, he just cannot push enough. You know, he cannot drive around. That's his driving style. That's his mentality. So certain, let's say, races, we just couldn't get the performance out of the car, performance out of him. Like Baku was the one bad example. he really wasn't confident with brakes and we couldn't solve it, then that meant he was so far off the pace. But it's amazing. Obviously, driving a Formula 1 driver is a very, very sensitive thing.

49:09Look at Abu Dhabi, great example. Friday, he wasn't happy with brakes again, completely off the pace, like half a second. And then we changed a few things overnight. But nothing that obviously indicates us to say, like, oh, Friday, this was the problem. certain setup changes, certain let's say component changes. Again, when we look at the data, nothing's night and day. But for Esteban, FP3 was totally clear. His feeling was great with the car. He had no issues that he felt on Friday. And then bang, he was on the pace straight away. Same pace as Oliverman, right? So that half a second, we're not talking about Tenso too.

49:45Half a second he was missing on Friday. He just got there. So he's got it. It's just about how to unlock it, how we can give him a car that gives him that confidence to push to that limit. On the brakes in particular? Lots of it was on brakes, yeah. Whenever he was really struggling qualifying, that was brakes. Because in a race, you don't brake as hard, so the problem becomes smaller. But in a qualifying way, you have to put everything on the line, late braking, peak pressure. That's where he had a problem. him. So can I, I'm going to take you back to a quote that I read. Unfortunately, I wasn't at the press conference that you gave in the Bahrain test.

50:25So forgive me if this has been taken out of context. I don't know. But you said you expected more from Esteban last year. What did you mean by that, given everything you've just said? Yeah, I don't think that was a press conference in Bahrain. That was, I think, after Barcelona when I did the shakedown. Yeah, after the shakedown when I did the online media session. I think that was completely taken out of context anyway, because I basically, if you listen to the whole sentence, it was much more in the context of the overall picture. But what I meant by we expected much more from Esteban, of course, you know, he's a race winner.

51:00He finished on the podium. He scored so many points before, 10 years of experience in Formula One. I expected him to score more points than Oli Behrman. I'm sure he expected the same you know that's what should have happened but it didn't why because part of it he just couldn't get on with the car at certain races part of it the team couldn't give him the car to give that confidence so I wasn't blaming him it's all a team effort but you know for whatever the reason which we still don't totally understand because that Abu Dhabi's in the prime example Friday to Saturday from what we can see it's not a night and day difference in the car performance.

51:40But whatever it is, gave Esteban that confidence that he needed to perform, right? So the result was night and day. So as a team, we need to be able to put Esteban in that situation at every race, every session, right? But we are not good enough to do that last year. So this year, we need to be. Do you think the 2026 cars being 30-odd kilos lighter will sort of lend themselves more to Esteban's driving style? I don't think so. Honestly, I think Esteban Esteban's a very good driver. So, you know, whether cars 30 kilo heavier, 30 kilo lighters, you know, if he's got the confidence, he's got good feel on the car, he can get best out of both cars.

52:20It's not a problem. So, but it's just about, again, we talked about process that we're still learning. We talked about the younger truck side team. So we are all learning together. You know, everybody needs different things. But the good thing is we are able to talk about these things in a completely open, transparent manner, constructive manner. And then, like I said before, you've got to be able to have hard conversations. And we've been having that throughout the last season, not to have a go at each other, but without having those hard conversations, you cannot get to the bottom of the root cause, bottom of the issue.

52:53And then if you don't get to the root cause, you cannot solve it, right? So you've got to put everything on the table in a manner such that you don't take it personally. Sometimes it's difficult, but you try your best. And then once you put everything on the table, then at least that's the start that you can have a chance to solve it. Okay, right. That's Esteban. Yeah. What about Oli Behrman? How did he evolve as a driver during his first full season in Formula One? No, it was great to see him evolve in that way, actually. You know, again, before when we signed Oli, right, lots of people asked me, like, but how's having a good history about rookie drivers?

53:30Is your team capable of developing a rookie driver? I said, come on, you cannot bundle rookie driver as one. You got to look at individuals. I had no doubt, Oli Biermann, he had an amazing, amazing talent and potential. And I had the confidence that if we do it right, I knew we could do it. We can develop him, we can nurture the talent, et cetera. So I had no doubt. But then beginning of the season, Again, unsurprisingly, he showed his brilliance in the speed, but he made some mistakes, rookie mistakes, silly mistakes. But then again, going back to having a hard conversation, you got to have those conversations, then set the expectation, right?

54:09Why do we make those mistakes? Why did you make that mistake or decision, wrong decision at those critical moments or non-critical moments? So you got to be able to discuss those things and understand how we can do better in terms of his preparation, mental preparation, or how can teams help. You know, we work with his management closely as well. How can we give him better mindset, framework, short-term objectives? How can we get him to focus more on the right things, take the noise out, environment, create the environment? So it's a huge team effort, like that Monaco, you know, overtaking under a red flag, get 10-place grip penalty.

54:48get 10-place grip penalty in Monaco when we had a decent car and he's quick. It's a disaster. But you got to learn from it. Then Silveston, the same thing. Car was good. And then a red flag, pit lane entry, crash, right? You had upgrades as well, I think, at that race, didn't you? Sorry? You had upgrades on the car at Silverstone as well. No, no, then upgrade was working, right? So the car was fast and Oli was fast. Oli got on with that upgrade really well straight away. So yeah, we had huge potential And then, of course, that went down the drain when he crashed in the pit lane. Those moments, you got to raise up from it as a team, group of people together, all he included, all his management team, everyone included.

55:29And we've done that. Then you started seeing the result of it towards the end of the season. And his consistency of delivery got much, much better. He was much more focused. He took the noise out from his environment. And then it's just amazing rate of improvement. then probably the Pinacrius or was that Mexico you know that doesn't happen by chance you know the way Ori drove on that day with huge pressure from people like George or even Max and then it didn't look like he had pressure of course he had pressure but he he drove in that amazing banner that doesn't happen by chance it's accumulation of all the hard work that happened over the last months.

56:12It was an incredible journey that he went on last year I mean, let's talk about Melbourne again. Yeah. I mean, the car was difficult. We've established that over the course of our chat now. But, you know, he crashed in two of the three practice sessions. And then look at the performance he did in Mexico. It's like a different driver almost. Yeah. Thanks for reminding me about that. Sorry. Melbourne, like, so you can see straight away, he had a huge problem in the car, with the car, right? Then he had a heavy crash. So he didn't run on Friday. And I remember having conversation with him on Friday night.

56:45Look, Oli, we need you tomorrow morning because we only got Esteban's feedback so far. But, you know, in high speed corners, I really need to have the team really needs to have both drivers feedback because Esteban, Oli, you know, those guys, how he feels on the high speed dynamics is slightly different. So, you know, for Esteban, this is a big problem. I really need your feedback. Then what does he do in FP3? He shunted straight away. I was mad, right? But again, I had to then count myself down, take that emotion out of the way, then have a strong, hard, but constructive conversation with himself, which we did.

57:24And how does he react to that? Good. But this is the amazing thing about that kid. Okay, he's 20, so maybe I cannot call him kid. He's less than half my age. But now he's those tough moments. Of course, you know, he's really disappointed. He's gutted. He's like destroyed. but when we have those conversations, he's very, very open. He listens, even if he doesn't agree, at least he listens. You know, so that is a quality that I noticed very, very early on. If you are able to listen, you know, digest the information coming from other parties, whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not, you know, that gives you a chance to improve, right?

58:02And then I remember talking to him in Shanghai start of the weekend. I said to him, look, I don't care about lap time here this weekend in Shanghai because I know you are quick. But this weekend, if you are, let's say, three tenths of Esteban all weekend, I said, I do not care because I don't doubt your speed. But you got to do every single lap that is on the run program. That's all I care. And he said, OK. He got on with it, did every single lap on the program. What was the result? Scored points. So for me, the focus was different. But of course, you know, he's incredibly talented and quick, right?

58:37Do you remember in 24 when he stood in for Kevin Magnussen in Brazil? So Brazil is a very, very technical truck, right? I love the truck because it's so challenging. But for a driver, it's very challenging. And he had no simulator session or anything. I told him, I think like at six o 'clock in the morning, Kevin's not well, can you jump in the car? No preparation. Then that was sprint weekend. so he had one hour to prepare for sprint qualifying and then i remember watching fp1 run one lap one yeah without any preparation that lap he did i never forget i was like how can you do that you just woke up being told you're driving got in the car spoke with engineers go out of the garage out up then one push up whoa so he's got that natural ability to be able to do that but that's such a knife edge that's not so different from having that crash in melbourne last year here in fp1 fp3 one was different but fp1 so again when do you take risk that brazil probably he had to take that risk but that was well judged but melbourne wasn't and even when he drove for ferrari in the jeddah you know that famous race that he stood in for carlos and then got p7 i qualifying i can't remember you know i remember watching on board he touched the wall a few times right so he's always there but it's just such a small difference between hero or complete leader failure but you got to manage that you got to understand when you take the risks right to take the risks is not fp1 or even q1 depending on the car right q3 if he crashed because he pushed you can't blame him that's when you have to take the risk but just judging that but that's experience isn't it?

1:00:26Exactly. I mean, look at Max Verstappen was exactly as you've just described in his early years and then look at him now. But this is why, you know, like I don't complain in the sense that, you know, I rather work with somebody who's got the unbelievable potential and he's got the personality, like I said, the openness and then genuineness, the humbleness to be able to have those conversations and listen. So now I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy working with him. How good can Ollie Behrman get? I don't know. I haven't seen the limit yet. So I'm really looking forward to this year. He's, again, stepped up already with the brand new regulation complications.

1:01:06He needs to work with engineers, not on the chassis side, but on the power unit side. So I think, and then, you know, for somebody like him, you know, every year he's been doing different formula. And compared to last year to this year, yes, it's both Formula One, but changes are so big. it might as well be a different championship but it's not new to him it's another new year another new category, here we go so he's got huge potential. Do you worry that you might lose him to Ferrari one day? Yeah, it's no point worrying about it I'm a strong believer in controlling what you can control and then Ferrari's been investing in him for many, many years, so we got him for last year and of course this year so we got to focus on what we can control and then if we've done great job with Oli and then Oli performed so well that Ferrari really wants to take him the following year we have to be happy that we've done our job if you like so you got to focus on your job.

1:02:06Are there any deadlines in this year when you need to know from Ferrari what their plans are? Yeah but that's So that'd be just a discussion between us and Ferrari. But seriously, we all are just focused on getting best performance out of the car and out of body. If that meant we lost him for next year, hopefully not. But that's not something we can control. It's been so great having you on the podcast again, Ayo. Thank you. I love our chats. So what does success look like for Haas this year? I think you may have alluded to it already. front of the midfield or what do you hope for in 26? For me it's again continuous improvement you know just learning from mistakes improving from last year improving from last race you know in terms of championship position you cannot judge everything by championship position right because uh so 24 we finished p7 and then 25 we finished p8 you know our target was p6 but 25 overall I think there was a lot of positive.

1:03:08We scored 79 points in that tight midfield where 1000 per second defines if you can go into Q3 or not. To be able to be fighting there in that sense scoring 79 points is a huge improvement but this year again with brand new regulation who knows people will improve. Some people will make a big improvement some people may struggle to make more improvements so that landscape will be difference. So championship, I cannot say what the success looks like in terms of championship position, but in terms of as a team, I think we are growing in the right way. And then this is a huge challenge. And so far what I've seen, you know, through the, you know, Barcelona Shakedown 2 Bahrain Test and preparation before that, we've been doing reasonably well, you know, especially considering our organization.

1:03:57And then we pushed last year for 25 cars. So we are doing parallel development. And so I actually prepared myself my team for a lot worse right now so we are I would say we are in a better shape than I prepared myself for prepared our team for but again there's no complacency right you got to really focus on basics execute and then at least I'd like to see us getting more out of the car best out of the car more consistently in terms of track side that be that would be a clear sign of success at the base in terms of development again this year is going to be a huge huge development race and that's going to be tougher than last four years but if we can keep up with that development race that would be a success well best of luck thank you thank you very much for coming on the show thank you very much pleasure

1:04:59What a fascinating conversation with Ayo. He's so logical in his explanations and so reassuring in his analysis. What an inspiring leader he is. And I loved what he said about the drivers and Oli Behrman in particular. Ayo hasn't seen Oli's limit yet, which is a mouth-watering prospect for all of us neutrals and for Ferrari who have him on a bungee back to the team. And remember that Ayo has worked with a lot of drivers so this is praise indeed for Oli. Ayo-san, thank you for your time. It was great to chat. Well, that's almost it for this week's show. A few parish notices before I go. F1 Nation's preview of this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix is out now.

1:05:43I'm joined by Jolien Palmer and James Hinchcliffe Just search F1 Nation on your podcast app, or you can watch our chat on the F1 YouTube channel. And this week's episode of F1 Explains answers your questions on the new 2026 tyres. That'll be on the F1 Nation feed this week. Thanks very much for listening. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.

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