Carlos Sainz: pushing for progress with Williams

29:54Carlos Sainz:And they find ways to waste a little bit less energy. But honestly, our job is not as different. It's just how different it feels. While you do that, it feels completely different. And you just have to adapt to how different it feels. The starts are very different. And the race ability of the car is going to be very different. but this until we don't go racing, I will not be able to tell you how different it is. What aspect feels most different to you? Is it the narrower tyres? Is it the lack of or less ground effect? Is it the increase in electrical energy? For me, it's the drivability of the electrical energy and the combustion engine itself.

30:38Carlos Sainz:I don't know how much horsepower we have, but for those few seconds that we have 350 kilowatts plus all the ice, internal combustion engine flat out, it's a rocket ship. For three or four seconds, it's a rocket ship. Then it starts cutting and it starts slowing itself down. But the acceleration from, let's say, 150 to 250 is much faster than what it was a few years. On top of that, we have the SLM, the old DRS, double DRS. And it feels incredible. For those three or four seconds, it feels incredible. Then you hit the brakes and everything. we need to, let's say, fine-tune it still because I've been in this sport for long enough that I remember how big the change was from 2013 to 2014.

31:22Carlos Sainz:I was a simulator driver for Red Bull back then, young driver, and I remember how different that felt, how difficult it was for the teams to adapt. So I know how much F1 is going to evolve then. How it will get sorted. It kind of reminds me of when Pirelli came in as the sole tyre supplier. It took everyone a while to work out how best to get the maximum out of them. That's the beauty of Formula One. We have so many smart, clever people. It will get better. Already the second test, it will be better done. With four days that we've given homework to factory engine manufacturers, in four days they will come up with solutions and they will put us here something that is better.

32:01Carlos Sainz:In two weeks from Melbourne, it will be even better. And in six months, it will be much better. And then in two years, I cannot tell you. But that's the beauty of Formula 1. What about the chassis themselves? The cars are narrower, shorter, etc. Aesthetically, I think they look fantastic. They look really good cars. I agree with you. What do they like to drive? The drive are actually not that different to last year. It's like taking the cars of last year and taking away, I don't know how to explain to people, but it's like 60 to 100 points of downforce to last year. And with a little bit better ride because you can run a little bit softer than last year because of not having ground effect.

32:43Carlos Sainz:So it's not that different. It's just running on the Monza wings of last year, but in Bahrain. So if I said, do they feel more like a 2021 car pre-ground effect? No, because the 2021 car had even more downforce than the 25 car, or let's say downforce in different places. but it's like a 21 car let's say with a lot less downforce. I'm getting it I'm getting a picture. Between a 21 and a 22 car with less downforce. Yeah it's just in the middle it's like it's not a 21 it's not a 22 generation it's like in the middle of the two and then you reduce downforce and then you take away drivability and you put turbo lag and you put other different things that make your life very complicated.

33:31Carlos Sainz:Which is kind of what it should be right? I don't complain about being complicated. I'm happy to be challenged and then especially I'm happy to also challenge the engineers to make it better because that's what they're going to do. What about the racing on a Sunday afternoon? Do you think, how's that going to play out with no DRS now? Are you going to be able to control your pursuers like you did in Singapore when you won the race, for example? I don't think so. I need to come up with a new solution to that. But let me say, The key of these regulations and my recommendation right now to FIA and FOM would be to stay open-minded with the way we use the overtake mode.

34:12Carlos Sainz:Because the solution that we might have come up now for Bahrain might be the right one, but maybe for a different circuit is a bit different. And if we want to make racing good and still put on a good show, we might need to adapt and learn from these regulations. because I don't even think FIA, FOM know how much overtake mode to put for each track, how difficult it's going to be to follow or not follow with these wrecks. So I think we need to, as a sport, we need to stay very open-minded to adapt those regulations to what we start seeing on the first few races. Is there one particular kind of driver that will excel with these cars?

34:55I think the people who have been sim racing since they were in short trousers I mean you've all got spare mental capacity behind the wheel

35:04Carlos Sainz:the leveling Formula 1 nowadays is so high I honestly think the 20 drivers 22 drivers are extremely talented we will all find a way like there's not enough difference in talent across the whole grid to tell you there's going to be a few guys that sort it out better maybe there's a few guys that get it a bit earlier or a bit later than others. But we will all find out the best way to drive it. That's why when last week I started seeing journalists analyzing the drivers that have adapted the quickest to do these regulations, it's so much. It's like, come on. You don't even know what we're testing.

35:41Carlos Sainz:You don't even know what we're doing. You don't even know if our PUs are allowing us to do what other drivers are allowed to do. Like, it's too early. come down, give us a few days of testing and let's give it time.

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39:04Carlos Sainz:Have you watched the car's trackside? I have, yeah. What did you think? I think there's one of the biggest differences I've seen trackside ever. You can close your eyes and you can hear who's coming rather than having to see which car is coming. So engine, no, or just the way it's being driven? Engine, engine. Because the engine, then with the two drivers, we end up doing the same because we are not stupid. If we see your teammate doing something that works, you copy it. And if he sees you doing something with your car or with your engine, it works. Same case is Mercedes engines. If I see George Orlando doing, Orlando has a different gearbox, but Alpine and Mercedes and me doing certain gear, I'm going to copy Alpine and Mercedes and vice versa.

39:51So you can clearly tell if it's a Mercedes gearbox coming, if it's a McLaren gearbox, or if it's a Red Bull, or if it's a Ferrari, if it's an Audi, or if it's a Honda.

40:05Carlos Sainz:And this, I would say, a year ago, you close your eyes, you wouldn't be able to differentiate who's coming. And now when they approach 2010, you can just, after two minutes, you understand who's coming. it feels like then that there's more capacity for racing if people are doing different things at the beginning yes i think there will be different solutions to different problems other approach by different approach by all the teams and we will see who's got it right i i said it last week on another interview i think the key of the new set of regulations is going to be integrating driver gearbox and drivability all together it's not saying we need to do it this way and the driver needs to adapt or we need to do it that way.

40:51Carlos Sainz:The driver wants to do it this way and the PU needs to adapt. I think it's how do we all agree in one thing and commit to it. And do you all agree in one trajectory? Not yet. We need to find which solution and which direction is right and now the development war will start soon. Are you and Alex Albon, your teammate, are you in agreement as to the way forward? I would say so, but it's unfortunately for Alex and me, we have a higher power, which is MGP and HPP, which will decide a bit the direction to go. But if we can influence that, my opinion, HPP and MGP should listen also to what Alex and I have to say to experience clever, you could say we like thinking also and coming up with good solutions.

41:38Carlos Sainz:And they should use us to find the right way because it's like having four drivers in your team, not only two. It feels like it's a good thing that James Valls has spent so much time at Mercedes in the past. He knows the way they work. He knows who to speak to there. Yeah, I think honestly, if there's one time to be a bit closer and united to develop this PU and these gear shifts is now more than ever. And then as we all become more competitive and everything is sorted and drivability and everything else is ready to go. And it's like last year that we didn't even think about them. we didn't even report anything because it was perfect then everyone every man for himself or everything for themselves but now that we need time to develop i think the the all this guys that use a bit the same pu same systems the same gearbox we we need to we need to help each other because there's a lot of work and when i say a lot of work is a lot of work to do and does it help in this instance that your team principal is also an engineer or in the conversations he can have at Bricksworth yeah well in general James likes being involved and it's great to have a team principal that also understands he likes driving himself so when you talk to him about a downshift or when you talk to him about drivability he he gets it because he's an amateur but a driver himself and he likes it.

43:06Carlos Sainz:He's also an engineer, so he's a bit of a hybrid, you know, between driver and engineer. More of an engineer, let's say, but also a bit of a driver. And I think it's always cool sharing a good conversation with him. Did you give him any advice before his race in Abu Dhabi at the end of last year? He did an endurance race, didn't he? Was it a McLaren? I think it was a McLaren. oh we had just been there driving a Formula 1 but an F1 is so different for a GT car that I couldn't give him much advice I just keep off the curb at turn 12 or whatever because with a GT you can stay on the curb compared to an F1 so I would no the only thing I ask to him is keep me posted like keep sending me updates of how you're doing and anything you need here we are both Alex and we have a group with him and yeah and he kept sending us updates of how he was.

43:59Carlos Sainz:He did great, I think. I think he did, yeah. Yeah, podium. I'd love to know what you put on that WhatsApp group, but that's probably a different conversation. How much of it's serious? How much of it is light? For that, you will need to pay to have access. Tell me a little bit more about James. He tried so hard to get you to join his team. He talked about the courting process and the late night dinners and all that sort of stuff. I'm a bit excited by Netflix, by the way. This whole courting thing, it's not like we were flirting too much. It was just a normal, I want you, I want you too, you need me, yes.

44:37Carlos Sainz:Let's see how we can get to an agreement here. But I mean, JV is only, what is he, three years into the role? Have you been impressed by him? No, not impressed because since the day that he was strategist in Mercedes, when he was doing all these videos analyzing, explaining the strategies of Mercedes, I don't know if you remember, Nico versus Luis and he was, Toto chose him to say, you explain what we've had to do here because I put you on the camera to explain because I don't... And he has that ability to explain it in layman's terms. To rationalize it and to explain it in a rational way. I've always had very good opinion and expectation of him because I could see he was quick and he was smart.

45:27Carlos Sainz:And I had high expectations about James in that sense. And I can only tell you he's even quicker and smarter and better talker than he is in those team videos. How does he compare to your previous team principals like Fred Vasseur, Ferrari or Zach and Andrea? I don't like comparing. I think every team principal has its great things and obviously the things that you like a bit less. But I'm not going to sit here and compare them and give you a comparison. I can just tell you, James is a great team principal, someone I really enjoy working with. And as I said, a very good hybrid between engineer, team manager, and a bit of driver.

46:16Carlos Sainz:that three-way combination makes it very easy to speak with. Whenever you have a doubt, whenever you want to speak about something, anything related to the car, anything related to the team, you can have a full, open, honest conversation about it. And that's something I think as a team principal and driver relationship, very good to have. Post-Formula 1 career as a driver, do you see yourself in that role? Could you do it? I've been thinking about it. whether I would like a role like that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where I will be in life because there's a few things, like going to live to Oxford, nothing against Oxford, but moving away to the UK with your whole family.

47:06Carlos Sainz:If I have a family and kids by then and nine to six job that I've never had in my life, for example, I'm a racing driver. I've never had to go to an office or anything like that. I don't know if I would be up for that or ready to do that. Like, I know that when I retire around the 40s, I'm going to have still another 40 good years in me. So how am I going to use those 40 years? Will you stay racing? For sure. You're going to race something. You won't do a Nico Rosberg and just... No, I'm a racer. I'm a racer. I'm competitive. As I said before, I like winning at anything I do. I will do a category that I think I can win.

47:47You know, Rubens Barrichello still, I don't know if he did it last year, but he was doing the karting world championships well into his late 40s. What a legend.

47:56Carlos Sainz:Yeah, I could see Carlos Sainz doing that. I don't know. I will race. I don't know if it will be Le Mans, it will be Dakar, or it will be, I don't know. By then, maybe there's other categories that are attractive, but I think I will stay racing. Something that keeps me active. I like what my dad does. He's 63. Maybe it's too much. But I like how he post-rallying, World Rally Championship, he extended his career, and that kept him fit. As a 63-year-old, I haven't seen a 63-year-old more hungry, more fit with so much dedication towards his sport that keeps him waking up every morning at 6 a.m. and still having something to work towards and i think even for your kids me as his son seeing that growing up has given me a great example to follow because i see someone that is 50 60 still going at it i'm not surprised once a competitor always a competitor right Yeah.

49:05He's like that. You'll be like that. But back to team principle, because you have the bandwidth, don't you? That's what people say. To tick all the boxes that you need. And damn it, how many languages do you speak?

49:17Carlos Sainz:No, I only speak Spanish, Italian, and English. Only three. It's not like I'm multilingual here. But the easy answer is I don't know. Have I thought about it? Yes. But I don't know. I don't know what you're trying to get from here, from this conversation. No, I'm just interested to know what you think. Do I think I would do a good team principal? I don't know. Science Grand Prix? What is that? Have your own team? My own team. No, I think that's a mess. That's too much. I don't know if the team principal role is the right one for me, but I think I could have a very good influence in other things in a Formula 1 team.

49:58Carlos Sainz:I think knowing what I know and how to manage drivers and how to manage a team of engineers. That, I think I could find a role or something. I don't know if team principal is the role that I would enjoy or that I would extract the most out of me. For that, I remain open to find potential solution. And then that has to come after I like being a racing driver and I will like being a racing driver by then. Well, you've said 40, so that gives you another 10 years. Let's see. Look, a couple more things, if I may, just before we end. Fame, I wanted to ask you how you deal with that, what kind of requests you get, because Formula One has gone stratospheric in the last five, six years.

50:46How has your life changed?

50:48Carlos Sainz:I'm going to be honest with this answer. I think fame is something that consumes you a little bit. It's something that at the beginning is great, and once you become famous and an F1 driver, where everything is actually cool to be famous at the beginning. But then the more you become famous and the more time you spend being famous, the more of a ballast it is. Like in a sense where the more exposed you are and the more time you spend exposed and the less you like it in that sense. And it's something that I'm dealing with, let's say, every year a bit worse. and this is me being very open with you like every time an extra picture or an extra moment of privacy that is interrupted let's say it's a bit more painful I don't know if it's because the amount of times this happens to you or that is also that we are becoming more famous as my career has continued because F1 has been exponentially getting you're getting more and more famous So without never crossing the boundaries of obviously always being well-mannered, educated to anyone who comes to me, it is true that more and more often it's something that I suffer a bit more from.

52:10Carlos Sainz:Struggle, let's say, is the right word. Does a day go by when you don't get asked for a photograph or a request come in? Is that just the reality? Every single day you're being stopped? If I leave home, pretty much every single day, which is... Are you becoming more insular as a result? Yeah. Do you stay at home more? Yeah. Yeah, I think I do. I do. Or I avoid busy places or... Yeah. Maybe I'm an introvert and I don't like... Maybe there's other people that love it. And the more famous they become, the more they are out there. Carlos, I wonder... But I'm not like that. I wonder where you could go where you're not recognized.

52:51I saw a great clip with Rowan Atkinson, you know, Mr. Bean, and he said he delayed releasing Mr. Bean in Italy because he liked going on holiday in Italy and he didn't want to be recognized. One step ahead of the game. I'm wondering if there's any way you can go where you're not recognized.

53:10Carlos Sainz:No, the only thing I've become is a bit more demanding with the fan, in a way where I like hearing at least a please or a do you mind. You know, like there's a lot of young generation nowadays that they don't even ask. They are with the phone like this, Carlos. And it's like, come on, like, where's them a bit of manners or, or they do you mind or can you please or, and the guy that comes or goes and shake your hand and say, Carlos, I'm a huge fan of you. Just wanted to shake your hand. I love that guy. I offer him, do you want a picture? because you're actually a genuine fan and a genuine I like you, I love you and shake my hand.

53:53Carlos Sainz:But the social media generation has changed everything so much. Before, it used to be an autograph, I don't know, in the time of my dad. You would carry a pen, I guess, and sign. Now you can tell there's people out there that just do it for the gram. They don't even know who you are. It's like, are you Carlos? Can I take a picture? and it's like to show to whoever you know how many times did that clip from the f1 movie go around you know when the girl asks in the nightclub can you introduce me to carlos saints how many times have i seen that ah um i could send it quite a few times and it's i enjoyed it i didn't enjoy when we were all in the cinema watching it and everyone turned and looked at me like you know that's gonna go everywhere now i mean like yeah i know but it's okay i don't i don't mind it it's these are funny things no yeah what i'm talking about is i don't know how many people see this is just be aware it's you are interrupting someone's privacy you know so at least especially a younger generation that i think are the ones that take it for granted that a picture is for free and a selfie is a must at least i mean some message i think more to the younger generation of it's not normal to go on assist be nice, be polite and that's the only message I guess I use this moment for.

55:20Well Carlos it's been wonderful to have you on the show again, thank you two last questions, who's going to be the world champion in 2026?

55:28Carlos Sainz:I'll say two names okay? George Russell or Max Verstappen. Can I ask you to explain that? No you cannot But you think they're the favorites? I mean, that is a huge statement about Red Bull, given that they've got the powertrains. From what I've seen in Bahrain, three days of testing. And what would success look like for you and Williams this year? Progress. Keep showing progress. Doesn't matter which area. We need to progress in every area. I'm not going to look too much at the results because if there's a year that is difficult for results and to judge where everyone is, it's going to be this one.

56:07Carlos Sainz:but progress, progress in every area. Podium? I'm going to try, I hope so. All right, Carlos, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much.

56:23Carlos never disappoints, does he? We always have interesting and engaging conversations and this one was no different. While the start of the season might look tough for Williams, I'm excited to see how the team and Carlos can turn things around. And looking further ahead, much further ahead, what do you reckon to Carlos Sainz's team principal? He's one of those people who will be good at whatever he turns his mind to. Thanks for your time, Carlos. Great chat and good luck in 2026. Now, a few notices before I go. Remember that you can watch F1 Beyond the Grid on the F1 YouTube channel. Plus, our other podcasts, F1 Nation and F1 Explains, are back for the new season as well.

57:06The shows are teaming up for this year, so make sure you're subscribed to the F1 Nation podcast feed to get all the latest episodes in one place. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next week with another great guest from the world of Formula One. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.

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