Fred Vasseur: Ferrari’s ‘next step’ with Lewis Hamilton + Charles Leclerc

0:03The Italian Grand Prix is magical, especially when Ferrari win. Monza last year, when you can feel the enthusiasm of the fans, for me it's something that I never felt before. As Fred Vasseur looked up at Charles Leclerc on the podium in 2024, he could hear the sound of the Tifosi celebrating a home race victory. but he knows what they and the rest of Italy really wants is championships. Pressure is the best motivation for all of us. I spend my life to work under pressure. I think that it would be, for me, very difficult to do something else without competition, without this kind of pressure of the Sunday at 3pm.

0:57Fred's high-pressure job has two high-priority objectives To get the best out of Charles Leclerc Charles is the first one to say my mistake when he's doing something wrong He's incredibly fast and quick Part of the family at Ferrari And to support the new member of the family, Lewis Hamilton I don't know if we underestimate the importance of the change Probably He's a champion, he's doing very well easy as the pace. My job is also to give him my support to do the best job that he can do.

1:33Here on F1 Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson, Fred talks about assembling a team that can win titles. He talks about his 5am starts in search of success and why returning Ferrari to the top of the sport will take time, even with two proven stars in the car. The Toffosi will be out in force at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza this weekend. And as you'll hear, Fred knows just how much it would mean to end their long wait for a world championship.

2:08Fred, it's lovely to have you on the show again. How are you? Fine. After the break, it's always fine. And back on track, it's also a good one. How was the break? Are you relaxed? Does it feel different coming into the second half? Much more than the other years that it was quiet, perhaps also because the market of the driver was quiet this summer and it was a very good break with the family, the friends. Do you stop thinking about F1 when you're on the break? Honestly, yes, this year that I stopped. I was still working a little bit in the morning, I'm still waking up quite early. It means that I have a slot for me in the morning.

2:47but no i was completely off then and i spent good time with the family you're an engineer by trade nobody's perfect but do you have any side projects do you have something in your garage that you're working on in the cellar yeah in the wine cellar yes not in the garage i always believe fred that um holidays and boredom are the birthplace of creativity and good ideas when you were in the cellar on the beach whatever you were doing did you get any inspiration no i stopped completely to even to think about the business on when i was with the friends of the family um it's true that in my life i think i did my best business in the in august if you have a look the last 30 years but this year was very quiet hey tell us more do you mean are you talking about contracts are you talking no contracts that i don't want to disclose something but contracts or drivers or big sponsors and so because i think you are a bit more relaxed at this period and you have time to be focused on essential and i remember gordon murray telling me on this show that he came up with mid-race refueling whilst in the bath i was refueling but not the same but fred we're heading into monza i feel it's a good moment to just pause and reflect for a moment on the three years almost three years you've had with Ferrari how do you reflect on everything that's happened so far it's quite intense for sure with up and down on the sporting side that you always want to get more but I would say it's overall it's positive that we had a let's speak about the last two years a good improvement this season is a bit It's a good improvement, that we are step by step putting things together.

4:41What we underestimate or I underestimate is also the inertia, the beginning, the fact that to rebuild something or to do things differently is taking time, but it's okay. But the most important is that the mood into the team, even if we are emotional, even if we are Latin, even if when you have bad results or bad session, it's tough. but at the end the mood is on the positive side. Inertia is an interesting point. How long does it take to change tack when you're in a team? Not just Ferrari, you've worked for three different Formula 1 teams. Yeah, it's nothing to do with Ferrari. It's more the F1 system is like this.

5:24First, you can never say that I'm in a good place. I think that even today McLaren, they are still trying to improve. They are still doing some changes. it means that if at one stage you say okay now everything is perfect i think it's the beginning of the end i mean that you need to keep this approach and it's for you the dna of your business it means that it's a non-end process but it's true also that uh in f1 today with the contract that the key personnel have is it means that if you want to recruit someone or if you want to change a little bit the organization it will take two years that you can take the example of the flowic for example who joined the team eight months ago.

6:05We probably started the discussion two years ago. And then the first car of the Aloyka area will be the next one. It means that it's probably a three-year project. And I'm not sure that today the F1 and the world in general, but the F1, the world in general, is keen to let three years to an organization. If you have a look on some of our competitors, like Alpine, they change the TP each year the last eight or nine years. it means that if you have to wait three years to bring something that if you change each year it's not the time the same time scale no one has any patience it seems anymore do they yeah but this we can't change it means that we have to deal with and we have to to accept it and it's true that with the media are different social media are different compared to the past and you want everything for the next day that it means that is this is the mentality in general and at the end sometimes on some projects it's quite difficult.

7:05Let's talk about the uniqueness of Ferrari now, specifically this team. How long did it take you to get used to that? I don't know but I think I had a good picture of the team before to join. The fact that we worked together when I was customer at Sauber, I was customer of Ferrari or the fact that I was linked also to Stellantis via Alfa Romeo. I think I had a decent picture of the team before to join and a decent picture of the main characteristic of the team before to join. But in what ways is this place different? Because it is different, right? You've worked for Alfa or Sauber in Switzerland.

7:43You've worked for Renault. It's completely different for different reasons. The fact that with Minardi, we are a bit isolated in Italy and when you have seven teams in UK, it means that the focus is much more diluted in UK. we are almost the national team in Italy that it's also another point and the fact that being Italian we are probably a bit more emotional and more Latin than all the other teams it means that if you put everything together at the end that emotion are huge and that it's one of the main characteristics of the team You talk about being isolated in Italy I think that's an interesting point because are you there is a motor racing motor racing industry you've got a lot i was thinking about the f1 world that for sure that we have a lot of company around us focus on the on motor racing and we are not isolated in in the world but in the world of the f1 that you have seven teams in 60 kilometers in in uk that the approach is a bit different when you have to recruit or when And you are a bit less exposed also to the move of people of the team.

8:55But it is like it is. And I'm really happy to be in Italy. What has been the hardest thing for you to get your head around at Ferrari? To not take 10 kilos per month first, probably. Too much pasta. No, but I would say that it's all positive. You know, for sure that the emotion sometimes is difficult to manage. The passion is difficult to manage. that the enthusiasm is difficult to manage, but I prefer to have to manage this than the lack of passion. I mean, just looking from the outside in, Fred, I look at your profile is obviously much higher now than it's ever been in your career. Has this opportunity with Ferrari come at the right time?

9:41Would you have been ready for this at an earlier point in your career? Well, this I don't know and nobody knows. I think it's true that it makes sense to join this organization with a good experience and the experience in your business it's also linked to being humble and humility because you know that each station you start from scratch and it's always important to calm down on the enthusiasm of everybody. Now you've alluded to this already when you were on holiday you did a bit of work in the morning but i remember you telling me once uh that you get up at 5 a.m every day why so early i don't know it was always like this i always wake up quite early a bit a bit more now but uh i also enjoy to start to work early because that it's quiet that you can do your own job and i'm still one of the first one at the at the factory in the morning the early bird catches the worm yeah yeah i don't know early bird a big bird but no no but it's uh yeah it's my my life is like this and i really enjoy to be uh to start to work i suppose what i'm getting at fred is your management style i guess those early hours in the day are when you're able to get your personal work done and then is the rest of your day very much dealing with people meetings empowering people it's probably that you have to ask this question to the guy working with me but it's true that if you start to do your own work or own work the morning the first one or two hours and then you can spend more time with the people around you when they arrive and this honestly I think that I always had this approach and I won't change.

11:38First, it's too late.

11:43I'm really pleased to work like this. Now, I remember years ago going to Fiorano and doing an interview with Michael Schumacher in Enzo's office, which I think is still there, isn't it, in the cottage. Quite an austere office, I remember. What's your office like in Marinello? The building is completely different, but I still have some pictures important for me pictures of my drivers on the child on the podium of last year i don't remember if it's vegas or whatever charlie lewis in in china and i have a big picture of 30s in 65 or 66 beginning of 66 with the four wheels flying why john said because first i have to say that to be honest that the picture was there when i joined but each morning i see the picture with the car flying and I said what this time was crazy and it kind of emphasizes the history of Ferrari as well is it yeah it's it's true that you you have the I don't know if it's the weight or of the story but it's good also for the humility and the approach I think it's uh as we said before that now everybody wants to have everything tomorrow morning and so and if you have a look on the last 60 years of Ferrari, it's for sure that you have a very high moment, but you also had up and down.

13:13But it's the life of every single team, every single team on the grid that we had up and down, because quite often it's about cycles, and we need to keep the same approach to continue to do step by step, and small improvement after small improvement. But everybody is pushing to win. We have to keep this in mind. It's not that some teams are not focused on the races. You know what I mean? Everybody is pushing like hell. Everybody is passionate. Everybody is doing a huge job. And when you join F1, as you said before, I was before in a other team, much smaller and so, but you can feel the same passion.

13:54I remember when I joined Sober, we were a very, very small team. We were 250 at the beginning. And the passion was there also. It's not that when you are at the back of the grid that you are not working or you are not pushing or you are not into the competition. You know what I mean? This is important. And everybody on the grid, in the paddock, I think is doing a fantastic job. He's pushing like hell. He's passionate. And it's not just about the engineer. I think everybody in the paddock, even you, Tom. no no but when you know it's true that it's uh doing now that we have to do 25 races and so it's it's a challenge this atmosphere honestly i think it's uh when you work in f1 i think it's quite difficult to change at one stage because that to to work in a this kind of environment sorry with so much passion so much pressure and so i think it's quite difficult to and it's inspiring isn't it it's inspiring to be around people who want to be the best they can be i certainly find yeah and at the end of the day we are also working probably with the best at least in this business the best of the best of the best you know that and this i enjoy every single day in my life to have this kind of discussion meetings about on the technical side or whatever that it's it's a real challenge but each morning that my assistant is telling me that I'm doing the best job of the world.

15:30And she's right.

15:44Success in Formula One is an interesting thing, isn't it? And how it's achieved. is your philosophy do 100 things one percent better rather than one thing 100 percent incremental gains no no this is important i think the first message is that everybody into the team is a performance contributor it means that performance is coming from the contribution of more than 1 000 people doing a small step and if you do the addition of each step it's performance at the end and we need to keep this mindset that everybody is owning the performance, good or bad, but it's not that performance is coming from two or three person into the team.

16:29This is the first message and when you want to manage a team, I think it's crucial to have everybody pushing in the same direction. And I'm really convinced that if today McLaren is doing a better job than us, it's not that they have a magic bullet on the car at 3-4 tenths, is that they are doing probably a better job on a lot of items. Probably that we are doing a better job on some items but much less. And it's true into the paddock everywhere that you can find good ideas on the guy with P10 and and this is what I learned the last 30 years is that you have to be an very open mind on this, that everybody is doing good things, every single team has good ideas and to keep this kind of approach and this kind of motivation.

17:18Is Formula One a sport, a business or a technical exercise for you? For sure the three. All three? Yeah, technical exercise, it's obvious. Business, it's obvious that we are big companies running a big business over the world and so, but it's still a sport. And the difference between our business and some other business is that you have a sanction every single weekend or three or four times during the weekend with the classification. And this is probably different to some other business in the world. And this is keeping the pressure on. But I think the pressure is the best motivation for all of us.

17:59Do you like the pressure? Do you see it as a privilege? A privilege, I don't know, but I spend my life to work on the pressure. pressure was different when I started in Formula Renault running my own team but the pressure was coming from the bank that it means that the pressure was huge and when you are an engineer in Formula Renault you can't imagine that there is bigger pressure somewhere else you are focused on your car with your drivers you want to win the race and you have a huge pressure I think it's a good motivation at the end and I'm probably addict I think that it would be for me very difficult to do something else without competition, without this kind of pressure of the Sunday at 3pm.

18:47Can I get your thoughts on something Martin Brundle said recently? Talking about you, he said being team principal of Ferrari is both the best job in the world, but also the worst job in the world because of the pressure, because it's the national team of Italy. What do you think of that? Best or worst, I don't know. I think Formula One, first we have to enjoy what we are doing, all of us. you have millions of people in the world who would like to do our job that this we have to keep it in mind sometimes we are complaining because the stewards said this or that we had this or we had the gust of wind or we had the...

19:28okay but at the end of the day we are doing something that millions of people would dream to do even if when I started I was not expecting to do Formula 1 I was always expecting to do something better next year and at the end of the day even if to be at Ferrari is not the goal for me. The goal is to win with Ferrari. It means that I need to do the next step, but I can't complain. I'm doing something fantastic with fantastic people around me, good drivers, that it's the lineup that I wanted to have, that it's engineers are top, that it means that we are in a very positive environment and this we have to keep it in mind.

20:06How helpful is the fact that you are an engineer by trade in your role as team principal?

20:18Yeah, but it was not always the case for my competitors. Stotto is not an engineer. But he's the only one who's not now. There's been a big shift. Christian was not. But now Laurent. Yeah, Laurent is. yeah but I think what is also strange in F1 is that you have 10 teams with 10 different setups 10 different organizations 10 different profiles of a team principal and at the end of the day we are all able to put the car not this weekend but sometimes in the same tenth of seconds and this also the exciting side of the project is that we are taking different ways to arrive to something very similar now what is the best profile for the team principal I'm not sure that you have a good answer to this it depends on the team, depends on the structure depends on to be a customer team or not at the end of the day the good team principal is the one who is winning You mentioned Toto, I did want to ask you about your relationship with him both of you in the past have talked about a friendship is that friendship as deep today as it was five years ago now that you're a genuine rival to Mercedes?

21:31We always try to keep the two aspects completely separate. The friendly relationship that we can have and the fight on track. It's true that when I was at Sober, the fight on track, it was not every single weekend. We had the beginning of 22, but it was the last one. Today we are fighting. We are also more fighting on the recruitment. but I think we are clever enough I hope that we are clever enough to keep the last 25 years of friendly relationship in mind and even if we are fighting on Sunday or Saturday to know that Monday morning we can start from scratch and I enjoy the relationship with Toto that we know each other for 25 years now Fred, was it affected by everything that's gone on in the last couple of years?

22:23You take Lewis Hamilton as driver, you take Loic Serra as your technical director, you take Jerome D 'Ambrosio. He's taking also some guys at Ferrari, don't worry. He's gone both ways. But this is the life of a Formula One team and we don't have to be upset with this. For sure, when I had to give the call to Toto about Lewis, it was not the easiest call of my life. Because I am perfectly aware of what's happened when they helped me a lot also at some stages in my life. And this, I try to keep it separately. Toto is my friend. He will stay my friend for the next 30 years of my life. We are fighting.

23:06We will fight this afternoon for the quali and tomorrow for the race. But Monday morning, I hope that Toto will stay my friend. Now, you've been involved in motor racing an awfully long time. You've been involved in Formula One, even on the periphery of it when you were running teams in the junior formulas for a long time. How has the atmosphere changed in the paddock?

23:32Is the intensity the same today as it was 20 years ago? This is very difficult to judge. First, because I don't want to be the stupido saying it was better before. What is true is that we have much more races first, less test but much more racist we are in a successful area it means that a lot of sponsor a lot of attention and so and a lot of media also and with the social media it's much more difficult to have a private life it means that it's uh probably an extra pressure that we didn't have the 10 years or 15 years and everyone now has a platform on which to air their opinions which they didn't have 25 years ago.

24:15Yeah. And in terms of the atmosphere, are you better able to have relationships, friendly relationships with other teams? I'm reminded of Miami last year when you went and interrupted the McLaren celebrations. Yeah, but it was a game between Zach and myself. And Lando. Are you quite tight with Zach? Yeah, we have a... I think that the same as for Toto, So we can fight on track, we can fight for people, we can fight for drivers and so. But at the end of the day, we are in the same boat for the business. We are in the same boat for the future of the F1, for the regulation, for the relationship with FOM, for the relationship with FIA.

24:57And we are also the only one in the world sharing the same experience. It means that it's not that I'm proud of this, but I'm very happy to have a good relationship with Toto, with Laurent. Laurent sometimes we have the dinner together and Bologna with Zach and so that because that at the end of the day it's also good to share our own experience, our own vision of what we are doing and it's nothing to do with competition and I think it's yeah I'm very happy to have this kind of relationship with them. Zach is going to share his experiences in a book that's coming out later this year are you going to write a book is there a book i will never write a book for sure if someone wants to write a book they can't do it but i won't do it myself now you touched on social media i did want to ask you about the media in general you have always kept i feel a very calm outlook in the years that i've known you um the only time i've seen you very upset was vegas was vegas yes in the press conference both yes that's true you and toto actually now you mention it oh my goodness you caused me a few problems then um no but i'm actually talking of course about uh canada earlier this year it was the only time vegas aside but that was a bit different um where i've seen you visibly upset you know there had been the articles written in the italian media questioning your position as team principal um it was clearly it was not the reason tom that

26:41when i signed at ferrari i knew about this i knew the that i will be exposed to the gossips to the rumors to the this kind of polemic but in the same article we had two other topics the first one was ah, perhaps that Loic is not the right guy for the job. Loic arrived after the car. And I was a bit upset that you can throw a name like this under the bus just to create the polemic with absolutely nonsense. The second point was about Charles. They said, ah, Charles will go to Mercedes. It was the same article, the last five, six races, and Charlotte Thursday is coming back to say, guys, it's not true.

27:27I'm at Ferrari, I want to stay. At one stage, I think this article is more to create a mess than something else. And it's where I say, guys, please calm down. I'm not asking the press to be positive with Ferrari when we are not doing well. You can have a negative judgment. But just to... I don't want to say the word because I don't want to have to go to the steward, but... to spray this on the team each weekend at once i said please calm down be negative when we are doing a poor job on track but don't spray rumors like this how did those articles affect your relationship with with the journalists in here in the paddock it's not the it's not an issue for me but what you have to understand is that behind the names you have family you have a i had the We had the same discussion one year ago that we had the rumor that Ferrari will recruit someone for Aero.

28:24Honestly, I didn't know the guy. But if you read the article, it was done. But you have to imagine that we have someone in place doing the same job. It means that the guy can imagine that he's fired. The wife of the guy can imagine that he will be fired. And each time that we have to calm down this, it means that I will never stop the... journalist is not the right word but uh guys to write something like this but they have to also to understand they are not helping at all so were you more concerned about what the articles were saying about loic serra and charles claire than what they were saying about you yeah because i knew my position i mean that's that's interesting that tells us a lot fred about your your management You know that it's, I remember perfectly the story last year about the guy on Aero.

29:19It's exactly the same story is that this is creating a mess, but not for the team. It's creating the mess for individuals. And it's not fair because they never called us to say, is it true or not? And at one stage, I think when you are the team principal and you sign at Ferrari, you know that you will have to manage this kind of situation. but I would love to protect my guys. You talk about the families of Loic, for example, being involved. I mean, you have a wife, you have four children. How did they react to the articles about you? Or before you took the job, did you sit them down and say, guys, this is the situation?

30:00Yeah, I spoke with my wife.

30:05that the discussion was with Ferrari three years ago a bit more very quick but I asked to John and Benetto to discuss with my wife because I knew also at this stage that I will expose my family and I said that are you keen to do it or not because that most important is my family and if you are not you are not and but the answer was very positive and very quick. How much support You mentioned John Elkin you're talking about and Benedetto Vigna. How much support did you get from them around June time this year? Well, honestly, I think the setup at Ferrari is very good. We have a very, very close relationship.

30:49I'm fully in charge, fully responsible. But I have also a direct access to Benedetto and to John. It means that if I need to do something, if I need to discuss about something, to get their support, I can reach them every single day. I mean, this setup is probably the best one that I had. Let's throw it forward. We're speaking at Zanvoort. We've still got 10 races to go. What would constitute a good end to the season for you and the team? Well, we have to win races, at least some races on the last 10. We have to finish P2. I think now P1 is gone. But we have to finish P2 in the championship. and to win races.

31:32Andrea Stella is on the same page. He said coming into this race that he thinks Ferrari are going to be McLaren's closest challenges. I mean, this year's car has been a bit of a diva, hasn't it? I feel the potential has always been there, yet unleashing that has been really frustrating. Have I summarized that pretty well? Yeah, but I think if you put McLaren aside, it's probably true for Red Bull, Mercedes and us also because as McLaren is far away perhaps that we are trying to take more risk or we are a bit more aggressive on some choices or whatever but I think it's even on some weekend and during some weekend that we had a kind of big swing of performance between the three teams could have been a mega exciting championship What's your biggest frustration with this car?

32:30McLaren that's actually quite a good answer without them yeah no because I think that for sure we had some issues on our side and this will keep it for for me but you can always do a better job and we can if we have to redo the season now perhaps the approach is a bit different but I don't have the feeling that we did massively wrong and if I compare with Mercedes and Red Bull we are two references of the last decade we are in front of them it's not that we did something stupid but for sure if you compare with McLaren today they are outstanding and if you look at the progress you've made look at the update in Austria look at the rear suspension in in Spa it is you're making progress yeah but Mercedes and Red Bull also perhaps that we started a bit behind and we are the last two were a bit in front, but perhaps that today will be a bit more difficult.