Gabriel Bortoleto: ‘my dream was so big’ - the long journey to F1

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2:41He left Brazil when he was just 11 years old. It was tough because, you know, I used to sleep every night in my home with my parents, with my brother, and we have such a close relationship that we were doing everything together the whole day. And from one day to another, finish. I didn't see them for three, four months. And, you know, for a kid that is 11 years old, it was tough. But Gabriel Bortoleto had to follow his life's ambition. My dream was so big to be in Formula 1 that I never realised until I entered F1 and then I'm like, what I did was quite crazy, you know. The reason why my father was working so much and not being so much with the family at some points, it was because I was racing and my brother was racing.

3:25So it became like a goal, like I need to be a Formula 1 driver. This is the minimum I can achieve to compensate everything he did for us. The sacrifices Gabriel's family made have certainly paid off because he's gone from winning back-to-back championships in Formula 3 and Formula 2 to being described as the real deal by his Sauber team principal, Jonathan Wheatley. Welcome everyone to F1 Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson, where Gabriel tells me the remarkable story of his journey from Sao Paulo to the pinnacle of world motorsport. Gabriel's success on his way to Formula One brings high expectations, as does the fact he's representing a country that's eagerly awaiting its fourth world champion.

4:11So how much pressure does he feel to follow in the footsteps of his idol Ayrton Senna? We also talk about the huge amounts of time he spends racing and learning on his home racing sim, his friendships with Max Verstappen and Oli Behrman, and how he has Fernando Alonso to thank for making it to Formula One. Gabi's an absolute joy to speak to. His love of racing and for his family and for his country is infectious.

4:45Gabi, it's great to have you on the show. How are you, first of all? I'm doing great. Happy to be here with you. Unfortunately, this year I have not been in the press conferences I was in the previous years, but good to talk to you. So Gabby, you strike me as someone who's already very at ease in Formula One, the cars, your relationship with your rivals. Just how long did it take you to get comfortable in this environment? I don't know, like five races in the sense like understanding a bit how the race weekend was and the amount of commitments we had and how the sequences of free practices and time with engineers work.

5:27So I have five races and then slowly, you know, after that, I'm still getting used to it. I'm not 100%. What has surprised you about F1? The amount of time we need to talk to the media on Thursday. To be honest, it's a big thing because we always talk about this, not as a negative, but it's just different. You know, in F2, F3, you basically have a little bit of media, but what, one hour maximum on a Thursday. and then you have the whole day to study and to analyze things with your engineers, prepare the weekend. And in Formula One, basically the entire Thursday, you are talking to media, doing interviews, sponsor work and things like this.

6:10So you need to calculate very well your timings and save your energies also for the weekend and still have time to prepare the event very well on Thursday with your engineers and everyone. So I would say this is very different because, you know, preparation is key in Formula One. preparation is key but what about using the media to your advantage in what sense is that a conscious thought do you sit in every interview and think right what do i want to say here how do i want to project myself yeah absolutely but i mean not only for myself but you know i don't want to say only things that come in my mind and put it out immediately because there's a lot of people watching you know our interviews and things a lot of kids a lot of yeah just a lot of people so you need to be careful with things you say obviously I'm always going to be transparent and who I am I'm not going to be fake I'm not going to be trying to be someone I'm not that's who I am and that's how I always let's say act in front of cameras or off cameras but for sure you need to be careful because sometimes some questions come and you want to give an answer that maybe it's not the time to do so you know because it is what it is and I don't know just need to think about it what about the cars you say it took five races but these ground effect cars that we've had since 2022 are an acquired taste I think we can say that because some great drivers like Lewis Hamilton will hold their hands up and say it's difficult to get a lap time and to get consistency out of them how are you finding them to drive well it's definitely a very tough car I need to be honest you know this f1 generation of cars they are complicated they are cars that's very sensitive you know to wind to track conditions and things so luckily you know i've been able to adapt this year you know quickly to the cars and to how i feel with it and how much i'm pushing on them but you know as you said some great drivers have been struggling a bit you know even if i think Lewis is not doing a bad job but everyone expects things so highly from him because he's a seven time world champion but if you see in Zandvoort for example he was super close to his teammates in qualifying you know he was less than half a ten from it and Charles is a very fast driver and we know what he's capable of doing in qualifying.

8:34Where do you find the time in these cars is it all on corner entry or is it just maintaining that minimum speed like you do in formula three for example i mean there is no secret or there is no specific entry some sometimes you push the entry like crazy and and you pray that it's going to be fine on exit because there's a short straight ahead of you and you know it doesn't compensate on on having a mega exit because you lose too much on entry so it's a bit of a different thing you know but with this generation of cars i would say just probably keeping it clean in the sense of not being too erratic i don't know if this is the right word but with the car and not making crazy moves you need to be a clean driver you need to drive with a lot of precision you cannot make so many corrections in the middle of the corner or you cannot afford to arrive in these corrections because these cars are so aggressive that as soon as you have a snap you are basically out you know or you crash or you're in the gravel so yeah Lando Norris said on this show in the past that in Formula One the driving's the easy bit it's everything else that's hard maybe he's referring to the media the pressure the expectation do you agree with him look it depends I know that McLaren you know they do a lot of media and and I also told Lando this many times look I heads off to you guys because you know sometimes I'm with Lando and he's like oh tomorrow I'm flying to to UK to do this and that and then I need to fly to US you know and and I'm like man that's that's crazy you know they have so many sponsors and and things to do luckily you know with us we we have a lot of sponsors but you know we have a different way of doing things and yeah I don't have the same let's say still a very busy one because the time I'm not with the sponsors I'm probably in the same with the team or doing other things with the team so it's just different different timings but yeah I would say driving is not the easy bit this I can guarantee you it's very tough to to extract 100 % of these cars but definitely there is a lot of things that can affect your driving if you don't focus and if you don't save your energies we're two-thirds of the way through this season I just want to get your reflections now on on how you feel it's gone well i see the season in a very positive way you know we started in in a very difficult way with the car you know we were really struggling to find a good balance to find performance we were really struggling sometimes to go out of q1 me and nico and you know we know how nico is good at and formula one has been here for 15 years great qualifier you know last year we saw the result he had and we were struggling at the beginning of the year and then we went to some other directions we you know we took some different routes and we brought the car in a very decent window with barcelona upgrade and then austria and then silverstone and then from there on we started to fight for points more often and i've been able to show a bit more what i believe i'm capable of you know i'm super happy because it's not easy when you don't have the car to show this maybe people don't see what you can really do and now that we have a car that is there you know in the middle field and that we can perform we can extract that extra you know and sometimes put the car in q3 and do like crazy qualities and stuff like this and this is always surprising so that's racing we move on from monza now what has your learning been linear this year or did it take the barcelona upgrade and then the austria developments to accelerate it no i mean my learning from driver's perspective has been always the same and constantly going up i believe obviously at the beginning is it's more of a steep curve because you have so much to learn that you know you start studying and you start doing things and you you just learn and you grow so much in that area but then when you stabilize more or less in a place that you should be and then from there on is fine tunings you know and then you start doing things here and there and there and there that at the end of the day you know step by step you just achieve so many things and you look down and you're like it looks so small of a step and now it's so big because you know you keep doing one percent every day so i would say barcelona was a big turnover for us because was when we put the car in the right and I actually started fighting people because so far in the season I was not able to fight anyone you know like we were struggling to overtake in the races we were struggling to follow closely so I mean until that moment of the season I was basically racing with Nico or with myself when you look at where the car was in pre-season testing and look at where it is now how much faster is it if you took this car back to Bahrain now how much faster would it be I don't know three tenths something like this it's difficult to say a number you know you need to put the car back on the same track but it's not only on the pure lap time it's not only on the one lap but in the race performance in the tire management the way that the car is easier to handle the amount of mistakes we do less now with this car you know it's just very different but i feel what's really stood out from you this year is your qualifying performance because as you say Hulkenberg is a really good qualifier Jolien Palmer once described him as a career killer because he's so fast over one lap yet you really are delivering on Saturdays he's crazy fast man he pushes me a lot you know like I wouldn't be at the level I am in in my qualifying and in my racing right now if it was not Nico probably pushing that much I mean I've been learning from him I've been studying him I've been analyzing data and and working on myself and yeah has been working out very well I would say it has been a great season so far but when you look at his data what stands out he's precise he's quick he's he's you know he doesn't make many mistakes in his lap you know his lap looks like it's very much in the limit but he is able also when he makes mistakes to keep the car inside the track and not lose a lot of lap time and this is not easy with Formula 1 cars you know so that's impressive about him.

15:11Is he the fastest teammate you've ever had? Yes he is the fastest teammate I've ever had probably. Partly because of his experience or is it raw pace? Raw pace is raw pace experience obviously comes you know racing strategy decisions and stuff but speed if you're not quick straight away you're not gonna be quick in 10 years you know it's not that you wake up one day and you are quick and i feel like nico has been well look at him he did poll in his rookie season if i'm not wrong in brazil you know 2010 and he has been always a great qualifier and and a racer as well but we always say qualifier because that's where he stands out a lot and this doesn't take out the qualities that he has in the racing side as well that is quite a lot of them it's just nice to be able to be you know fighting and to be in the level i am right now and and to be fighting with a guy that is so quick like this and it makes me happy and and coming to the race weekends i'm excited because i know it's going to be a tough fight and it's between me and him and you know i need to deliver everything i have and for all that competition it seems that you get on very well i i think back to his silverstone podium you looked genuinely happy for him.

16:24Nico, it's Gabi. Man, you don't know how happy I am for you. You are a f***ing legend. Honestly, absolutely insane what you did today. Thank you, buddy. Thank you very much. Appreciate that from you. I wait you in the podium. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's no reason why not to, you know. He has been in Formula 1 for 15 years. He has struggled to get a career podium first time this year. And I'm all about fairness in my life. And I never thought that his career was fair because I really thought that Nico could have achieved so much more if he had the right cars and good teams behind him. And I don't think he did.

17:05And I think he could have achieved much more. So to look at a guy like him, that won Formula 3, won Formula 2, did an amazing job in Formula 1, and not getting a podium, I was like, man, come on, this is not possible. Like, if he doesn't get a podium, then what? And then when he got a podium, you know, I was genuinely happy because I really believed that he deserved it. And, you know, it must be tough for him, even if he doesn't say it after 15 years trying not getting a podium. At some point you even say, I don't care about this and I would just do my job. But yeah, it must be tough. Hopefully, you know, I achieve my own as soon as possible.

17:42And I'm sure he'll be very pleased for you. I hope so. Look, I agree completely about Nico, but let's bring it back onto you. and to something that Jonathan Wheatley said recently. He said, Gabi is, and I'm quoting him now, the real deal. And Wheatley has worked with all of the modern day greats. He worked with Michael Schumacher at Benetton. He's worked with, of course, Vettel, with Verstappen. What does that make you think when someone of his experience is saying that about you? What can I say? I mean, it's amazing. Does it make you even more confident? Well, definitely. A guy that saw so many talents, worked with the greatest together with Senna.

18:31And Michael won seven titles. I always rate him very highly together with my idol, that is Senna. He worked with the guy. And then he says, I'm the real deal. What can I say? For me, it's just amazing. And I still have so much to prove in Formula One. And I want to achieve so much here. I want to be a champion one day and that's what I'm going to work every single day I wake up for. And to hear from my boss that I'm the real deal, it's amazing. What can I say? It's great. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy.

19:11When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed, sponsored jobs gets you quality candidates and you're going to be a champion. when you need them most. Because when you're hiring, you don't just want more applicants, you want the right applicants. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. That's because it helps you reach candidates that meet your specific criteria, such as skills, certifications, or location from the word go, boosting your job post in search results so you can reach the people that help your business thrive.

19:45So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs.

20:25This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed, sponsored jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. Because when you're hiring, you don't just want more applicants, you want the right applicants. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. That's because it helps you reach candidates that meet your specific criteria, such as skills, certifications, or location from the word go.

21:05boosting your job post in search results so you can reach the people that help your business thrive. So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

21:42Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs.

22:04Gabi, how important is it for you to get this year under your belt ahead of the rule changes next winter? If you were going straight into your rookie season with so many changes next year, do you think you would have been at a disadvantage? Yes. I mean, I would need to learn everything. Obviously not everything because I would have had an year of testing, probably a year of being in here with the team and learning. But still, driving is driving. nothing is better than that racing against these people and and being part of the team you know i believe uh it would be a big disadvantage for me especially you know being straight away audi first year everything would not be easy but i'm glad they gave me the opportunity to to develop this year and you know start with the big team next year driving's driving i mean the 26 rules are such a reset for the teams do you think there'll be a reset for the drivers or is driving just driving is a car a car ultimately i always believe a car is a car and if you are you know how can i put this in the right words but if you're quick you're quick if you're quick you're quick yeah obviously there is cars you feel better or not but when you are quick you are quick and you need to adapt you know and especially when you are so young like I am I don't have any options you know you need to drive any car you get in your hands and extract 100 % of it okay right your record in single seaters would echo that f3 champion f2 champion in consecutive years what about a Brazilian stock car I was I was looking at your your racing record were you immediately quick in that when you did it when you raced it look i'm gonna be honest i was very quick at it but i didn't know how to race because i always raced my whole life in open wheels and you know you cannot touch wheels in in formula one as soon as you touch you have a puncture or something in stock car they are great drivers there man like the level it's insane in that series obviously we have so many stock car drivers that come to race in europe and they win le mans and daytona and things like this so the level is crazy i went there i was quick i was happy and then in the start i remember a break i had three guys on the left three guys on the right one guy almost jumping over me and just banging wheels and everything and i was like man this is crazy i think the sim helps you young guys now a lot something that wasn't available 25 years ago to drivers would you agree with that yeah sim is for me a key i i love sim you know it's a passion is not only a tool of work, but I'm passionate about it.

24:47You know, I love going back home on a Sunday night after the race and sit in my sim and drive. Not on Sunday night after a race? Yeah, like backwards. You know, I came back Sunday night. And then went straight on the sim? Yeah, yeah. Having done a Grand Prix that day? Yeah, but I mean, this is not work for me. This is, I love, you know, it's different. When you love doing something, you don't see as a work and then you don't see as like, oh, why would I jump in the sim on a Sunday? nine why like thought you might have done enough driving for one day but i mean it's never enough a grand prix is not even close to what i do in a day of sim the grand prix 70 laps i do i don't know 150 200 laps when i'm practicing so i don't know it's just different you know i love doing it i think it's very good for my to keep it up with the speed and to you know the same movement every time i finish that's why i jump on a sunday night because it's when you have everything fresh in your mind so you set up the throttle and the brake exactly how you had a couple of hours ago the steering weight and everything so you can set it in the perfect way you know so on sunday night of zanvort did you drive zanvort again yeah in the same correlate yes yes but it's not the only track i've done this this year already many did you learn anything in particular on sunday night no i mean i've obviously you know you finish the weekend with a knowledge much better than what you started then yes in the sense i i came back home with things i didn't know when i before the weekend when i started in the sim knowing much better but i didn't learn something in the sim on sunday night but i made my sim better i made the paddle better i made the steering weight better i made it the car more realistic because you can make the setup of the car similar to what i had in the weekend so for the next track that is monza when i went on monday to practice again i had it a car that, let's say, is much more realistic than what I would have the weekend before, you know?

26:42I find this fascinating, and I'm reminded of a conversation I had with Gerhard Berger about Ayrton Senna. Gerhard said to me that Max Verstappen is a better racing driver than Senna ever was, and I thought that was a very strong statement coming from him, given that they were teammates at McLaren. They were very good friends. I said, why? And he said, because of the sim. If you drive the sim the whole time, you get better practice starts all the things that you've just described and none of that was available to Ayrton if he'd had a sim he even Ayrton Senna could have been a better racing drive absolutely but back in the time even data was very limited sim you didn't have the live onboards and things so the the Formula One world evolved a lot in the last 30 years and it's natural that a new generation will get more data, more information to improve comparing to, let's say, the older drivers.

27:43This doesn't make them worse or better than us. I get fascinated about Senna, and I always say it, is that Senna, for me, was ahead of his generation. So it's like if he was today ahead of the sim generation, in the sense like he would be in a step ahead in 10 years. In 10 years, people would be doing things that he was doing already 10 years before. So that's what I find fascinating about him because he was the game changer. It's the same as Michael Schumacher. You know, when you hear histories about him, he was a game changer in many topics, you know, in the physical condition, you know, he was putting the bar up, you know, he was setting things in another level.

28:24And that's what I find fascinating about Senna, Schumacher, and for example, Max with the sim. I think he was the first real driver to get these sim things very serious even if nowadays in the grid there is still i think 90 of the grid doesn't do sim at home but they do a lot in the factory you know but they don't do at home but i don't know maybe in 10 years maybe you know i'm quite sure in 10 years you will see drivers here sitting that they're going to be nerds talking about sim and playing the whole day at home because that's what they grow up with you know how much have you studied Senna because he had that very unique throttle application didn't he when he used to pop pop pop pop pop I've asked so many people about that already have you tried it on one of these have you tried it doesn't work you know there's no turbo lag or anything with these f1 cars recently but it wouldn't work you know we have the differential of the car that is it's linked with the throttle so if you hit the throttle the diff locks and everything so it's it wouldn't work in nowadays car but it worked for him back in the time and I asked so many people that used to to work with him back in the time why did he do that and they explained me you know for the turbo lag right yeah turbo lag plus the rpms you know he never wanted to let it drop so much so he wanted to keep it high and the turbo you know working for when he goes on power he has a very good exit so it was something that he was the only one able to do for all of this sim conversation we're having is there a little bit of you that wishes there was more on track testing absolutely yes yes because there's no replacement for doing it for real right i mean sim is the replacement trying to replace the test we cannot have in real life but if we could choose between do you prefer doing sim or the amount of days you're doing the sim in the real track 100 real track i mean sim is just good because we don't have time on track but that's the only reason why we do it and you could try some really interesting things on track that maybe you don't try in the sim tell me if i'm wrong but mika hacken and once when he was at mclaren tried a hand throttle because he believed it was a shorter distance between your hand and your brain than your foot and your brain so he wanted to try to see if it was better using his a hand throttle just crazy stuff like that's interesting and well yes but you are also able to test this nowadays in the sim i suppose you can it's kind of actually much easier but what you cannot test is like i don't know i had a development that you do in your car you cannot like you can put it in the sim but how much can you rely on that you know maybe it's not 100 accurate but when you put in the real real track is is the real thing you know so what happens there it's gonna be in the race weekend plus like in the sim we have very good track models and car models but they are never 100 accurate they are close to it but like tracks like zandvoort you know that is a very banking t3 it doesn't exist any sim that gives you the feeling of how much banking there is in that corner in real life you know you don't feel the g-forces you don't feel a lot of things that you do in real life so that's only in the real life feeling you have yeah is there a crazy bit of technology that you would like to try in Formula One?

31:45A bit like Mika and his hand throttle. Well, you got me with this question because I never stopped. Maybe I give you at the end of the show, at the end of the podcast, we talk about it. I will think about it. It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because there's a lot of things that could have been tried. I sometimes think if the FIA didn't regulate Formula One to the extent that it has to, for safety reasons, where would the cars be now? I don't think drivers would be able to drive the cars that's the reality you'd be blacking out because the g-force is too high you would pass up in the middle of the corner you would g-force would kill you tell us a little bit more about senna if you would you have his helmet colors uh as part of your color scheme why why why have you done that well it's a mix of senna and brazil obviously you know it's senna colors because he got famous using them he's my idol so last year in f2 i had a helmet that was red and and sorry it was orange and black if I'm not wrong, something like this.

32:40And then I said for 30 years of Senna's death, I'm going to do a tribute to him and make a helmet in his colors with Senna's logo together with the family. So they approved and they said, absolutely, we would love to. You know, it's amazing from your side to do this in the Imola event. So I decided to do it. It brought me luck. I did pole and, you know, I got my podium. I'm not sure it was my first podium, probably it was, of the season. And I decided to stick to that helmet because a lot of Brazilians got in love with it. And I got in love with it. I was like, why didn't I use the colors of my country earlier?

33:20You know, I represent Brazil, like I should be using it. So I decided to use it. And this year I stick to it as a, let's say, Brazilian flag colors, plus obviously Senna. That was the reason why I did it. And yeah, I'm so happy that I'm able to use it like this. And the family and Viviani, as you say, they were very supportive of you using the colors. Yes, they were. They were 100%. They were in Imola and we took many pictures together. And I was so glad, you know, because, I mean, it's the family of my idol being there, happy that I'm using something for him, you know, like a boy's dream. Tell us a little bit about Brazil and any pressure you might feel from home, because it's been a while since you've had a full-time Formula One driver, Massa being the last one who ended his career in 2017.

34:10Is there pressure? Do you feel it? There is pressure, obviously, like any other country. Obviously, Brazil probably a bit more than England because England has had many drivers for many years, champions and everything. For us, I believe Brazilians are so emotional, they are so in love with the sport and they want Brazil to be in a high that any athletes in Formula One, in tennis or whatever, they start following you and they are like, okay, you need to be the next one. And they put this pressure on you. And I take it as a positive because it's a lot of support I get from Brazil. But also, you know, when you have a tough race, sometimes there is people that, you know, go after you and they are like criticizing you.

34:53But, you know, at the end of the day, it's part of the job. It's going to be always like this. We have love and we love people. That doesn't give you love. And it's normal. But I said this already before, and that's what I love about Brazil. Because we are emotional. We are honest. We are normally not fake. Whatever we feel, we put it out. And that's it. And I know that many of these people that maybe criticize, they are not really criticizing. They are just feeling the pain that they want you to do well. And they're like, a lot of times I see people, like they come and they try to give me advices.

35:29but they don't understand about motorsport but i i'd see in a different way i try to understand what they're saying because there is always something you can take about it you know so yeah i always felt that with rubens i always felt rubens you could have construed it as criticism from back home but actually it was just people passionately wanting him to deliver the championship absolutely yeah but has been always like this this is brazil and because we don't have many opportunities of being in a well in a grid like Formula One you know eight years that we didn't have a Brazilian driver now that we do they want me to win they want me to and as soon as possible but obviously it takes time it's not gonna happen you know like this we have to develop and grow as a team and we are doing that right now but yeah it's gonna take a bit of time but so hopefully we'll come soon.

36:21You went back to brazil during the summer break did you notice any difference in people's attitudes towards you i don't know going through sao paulo airport just people on the street that kind of thing yeah i mean obviously it's a bit different you know you go eat in a restaurant people recognize you everywhere you go now but uh it's nice because you know they come and they they say nice words and they take pictures and they say like it's a lot of i need to be honest it's a lot of it's a lot of kids nowadays you know it's it's impressive you know i live in a in a close um building let's say a close neighborhood you know there is many houses inside that's with security and everything we know a bit how brasil is and you know inside this place people know that i'm there sometimes a year and and a lot of times i was eating having dinner with my family and then the ring would bell and then I was like, my God, who is it?

37:19So I opened the door and it's a kid like this, six, seven years old with the parents behind. They're like, sorry to disturb at this time of the night, but can my son take a picture? He's such a big fan. And I'm like, absolutely. Like I was this kid some years ago. You know, I love to do these things with people because I was one of them not so long ago. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs.

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38:28Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Building a great team is never easy. If you're a small business, hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy.

39:14When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. Because when you're hiring, you don't just want more applicants, you want the right applicants. Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. That's because it helps you reach candidates that meet your specific criteria, such as skills, certifications, or location from the word go, boosting your job post in search results so you can reach the people that help your business thrive.

39:49So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed-sponsored jobs.

40:31there's more to come from Gabby in a moment his team principal Jonathan Wheatley is on our sister podcast F1 Explains this week that's out on Friday and F1 Nation's review of the Italian Grand Prix is out now featuring a very honest chat with McLaren boss Andrea Stella just search for F1 Nation and F1 Explains on your podcast app.

40:57Let's talk a little bit about your family now. Is there racing in your blood? Did your dad race? Tell us, where did the bug come from? Well, it comes from my family. Obviously, my father was always in love with racing. He was passionate about it. He loved Senna. my grandmother, she loved it as well. She used to put me in a wall that we had in this house, and then I would sit in the wall, and she would be looking at for five, six hours. We would just stop for lunch and come back, and what car is this? And then I need to say the name of the car and what engine it uses and stuff. Road cars or racing cars?