Isack Hadjar + Laurent Mekies: trust, teamwork + targets

0:01Hello, appliance fans. I'm here at Grand Appliance where Bill just bought a premium Bosch Benchmark dishwasher. Talk about your experience, Bill. My salesperson was an appliance genius. She told me about their free install offer on Benchmark appliances and it was a done deal for me. Wow, free install from the pros at Grand? That's a no-brainer. Agreed. They make it so easy. There you have it. Grand for the win. Check out GrandAppliance.com for full details.

0:33Can we have a look at the wrist? How is it? Have you got full movement back? No. No, really? Good enough. Can I ask how you did it? It's very stupid. We welcome back to the Red Bull seat, Isaac Hadja with a new contract under his arm for next year. I think I did a very good job on the couch. I got a podium on the couch and I got a contract. Versteppen from Mylesburg. What a move from the four-time champ! Probably facing prime of the prime of the level you can achieve in Formula 1, and he's just next to me in the garage. I'm one very, very lucky guy. And we're now joined by Isaac's team principal, Laurent Mechies.

1:15In the car, he's just getting better every time he goes out of the garage.

1:25welcome everybody to this week's f1 beyond the grid i am delighted to say welcome back to isaac hadjar it's great to see you here in baku after what's been a difficult period what have you missed whilst not racing i don't know what i miss more between the competition and the pressure or actually the feeling of like the g-force coordination the vibrations of the car and all the technical stuff i don't know which one but yeah i would say the package the whole package it's interesting that you say you miss the pressure ah yeah and press pressure is a privilege right yeah yeah the excitement you know of uh and um not knowing what is going to happen and you get addicted to it.

2:15And then once you're out of this for like two months already and there's no stress in your life, for me it gets very boring quickly. So yeah. Well, I'm guessing the wrist was a bit of a stress. Can we have a look at the wrist? How is it? Have you got full movement back? No. No, really? Good enough. It's good enough. I had a whole day on the sim on Monday. I did over 100 laps. so you know it's supposed to be simulating reproducing the real thing so is there anything you can do with the systems on the car to take some pressure off the wrist in terms of i don't know making the steering a bit easier or no i didn't think of that priority for me is the feeling i have in the car and the pain we we deal with it but uh i don't want to change anything on my steering wheel.

3:07I come to a point now I'm fully adapted to what I do. I don't want anything to change. So can I ask how you did it? Yeah, it's, uh, it's very stupid. I finished a gym session conditioning on the bag and it's just like very bad hit. I was not strapped. Yeah. It was a shit bag. I must say. So you were just punching a bag and did you know immediately what you'd done? not at all was there much pain the next day when i woke up never in my mind i thought it would be a fracture because i felt limited and i had pain but i never broke anything in my whole life so when he told me i'm out for this amount of weeks i was like yep i have a race in five days so how do we do now so yeah it was um big shock what happened next i mean can you talk us through the telephone call to Laurel?

4:06Actually, the first one I called was my trainer. Then the physio of the team. I don't remember breaking the news to Laurel. I did not do that. I think someone else did it for me. But yeah, I think I kept it a secret like for a day to plan what I wanted to do with my wrist. And then we broke the news. But yeah, for a day, I was like, a lot of thoughts was going on. So what, the initial diagnosis was what, six weeks out? Because then it's a race, isn't it? Yeah, but then it's also like, if you want it brand new, it's 12 weeks. I don't have 12 weeks. At first I was, for me, Monza was like ideal to come back.

4:49And then, you know, I eventually tried. It was not working. Tried on the sin. Yeah. I had no strength, nothing, no mobility. If you're out for Monza, that means you're out for Madrid as well. So yeah, my target was always Baku. So, you know, I think I've done well with the healing and yeah, it's good to be back. It's true that you spoke to Marc Marquez, the MotoGP world champion. Yeah. Who's been pretty beaten up over the years, hasn't he? What advice did he give you? Take it easy, you know, And I wanted the, you know, when all the doctors are like, yeah, you should not come back. Okay. But there are doctors.

5:34And then you call a guy that's tough, that has all the experience in the world for that. It's free to call, you know. And that was it. It was very quick, but it was clear what not to do. So it was the right decision. I think I got it right. And that's the perfect time. And psychologically, how tough has it been for you to see another driver driving your car? This I don't really care. It's just like, just painful to watch the other guys drive. Also like not driving in a new track, you know, useful for next season. All these little details, there's always constantly things you learn on the car going to, from tracks to tracks.

6:21and you don't get to experience it in the car, I feel like you're missing out on something. So in that aspect, it pains me a bit. And could you learn anything from Liam Lawson, his feedback? Did you and him discuss the RB22? Yeah, it's good to have his feeling coming from a top midfield car to our car and see how he feels. If anything is better on their car, what can we learn? to play it there and, you know, just how he feels inside it from an outside view. That was definitely interesting. Obviously, we would like a guy like Kimi to come in our car and tell us a bit more. More tricky to organise that one.

7:09Yeah, exactly. So, no, it was good and fair play to him because he was very, very competitive. Let's talk about the new contract now. It's been, I mean, it's huge news. after all the recent frustrations, the timing of this could not be more perfect. I think I did a very good job on the couch because I got a podium on the couch and I got a contract. So I think I should stay out for a bit more now. If I'm in doubt, I just go back home and do nothing. If in doubt, sit it out. Exactly. So no, it's great. It's what I wanted. you know I signed in the junior team to go to Red Bull and stay I'm not there for a wild card or anything I'm here for the long term and to have the trust of the team the trust that they showed me during this period this tough period for me I'm very grateful for it so it's great to have it all secured and I can just focus on driving the car you know and building the momentum and um yeah building my relationship with all the boys and girls at the factory so no it's it's just great to to for once to repeat something you know with with the team because my whole career you keep moving everywhere you're always under pressure and now you get to sit and build something is this the earliest you've known what you're doing the following season in your career Yeah, by far.

8:39There's no doubts. This is the thing, isn't it? Up until that moment when you were punching the bag, it had gone incredibly well for you. This had been a really good season for you. How do you look back? How do you reflect on the first part of the season? I felt very confident out there for the last couple of races. I think I had only one race. I was a bit off and I knew why. and since then once we started to go racing again in Canada from Canada to basically now I felt I felt great in the car I would say one lap pace been good Max is outstanding on Sunday it was incredible and I toward that late period before summer rake I was starting to build some momentum then it happened but I think all in all I think I've been surprising myself a little bit Hello, appliance fans.

9:38I'm here at Grand Appliance, where Bill just bought a premium Bosch benchmark dishwasher. Talk about your experience, Bill. My salesperson was an appliance genius. She told me about their free install offer on benchmark appliances, and it was a done deal for me. Wow, free install from the pros at Grand? That's a no-brainer. Agreed. They make it so easy. There you have it. Grand for the win. Check out GrandAppliance.com for full details.

10:15let's talk a little bit more about max because you said prior to the start of the season this is what it's all about for you it's about comparing yourself yeah to the best how do you feel you've stacked up against him it's exactly what i expected max verstappen to be on the track. I had an idea of how good he was and it translates really well. And what I have in my mind that I want to achieve on track, he kind of does it. But there's always a difference between what you're aiming to do and what you actually deliver. You know, there's always a little gap sometimes. But he's constantly like, he doesn't really have low moments.

10:57No mistake, he's always at the right time. the right place as well. He like creates his own luck a bit. But yeah, I love, I love the challenge. I love going into every session knowing that he's going to set a benchmark that I need too much and I need to overcome. And it's, yeah, it's just exciting. You know, it changes from everything I've had my whole, whole career. And when you look at his data, is he doing anything extraordinary with a car anything where you sort of take a step back and go wow i would say you can on a track you know have like 15 corners and maybe there's one corner you you master or two three four five corners you do really really well but he matches you there and then on the others he keeps that same level and then over the lap he makes the lap time difference but i wouldn't say I look at the data I'm like I can't reproduce this it's how often he does it that makes the big difference at the end it's it's like he has no peak you know it's just like it's flat it's up there but it's flat you know whereas everyone kind of yeah it's it's what makes him such a tough driver so and do you know what Isaac you're probably up against him at his peak you know he's got 11 years experience in Formula One he knows the team inside out it's an interesting time to be up against yeah no it's like i'm probably facing the prime of the prime of the level you can achieve in formula one and it's just next to me in the garage and to experience this at my age this early in my career i'm one very very lucky guy and he respects you i looked at the interviews he did in baku talking about you re-signing for 27 and there was genuine affection there.

12:49He was genuinely pleased to know that he was, Hadjiu has his wingman. Yeah, it's good to hear. It goes really well, you know. He's a very, very kind guy. We get on really well. It's good to work with him. And he just, you know, I'm grateful because he gives me so much to work with, you know, to improve, which probably no one else can give. So yeah, just for that. I'm thankful and it's great. Your motivation is infectious. I'm sitting here almost wanting to get in the car myself. You can come. You won't fit in my seat though. I'm a small guy, you know. Look, a couple more things if I may. I wanted to talk to you about Monaco.

13:34Isaac Hadjar to the podium for just the second time in Formula One. Bravo. Bravo. Good job. It's P3. Oh my God. Why does it have to be so difficult? Yes! First up, what was it like to stand on that podium with the royal family? I was so done, man. After that race, it was just hell on earth in the cockpit the whole time. It's just like I would have an issue and then other issues would come on top of it. it was just a nightmare to drive and i was like so overwhelmed i was blocking george the whole time he couldn't get by i knew like going back out on track after the red flag five cylinders left in the engine and they're like it's a standing start i'm like why and i am in third at that moment so i know going into turn one even though it's a short run i have no power like i know i'm gonna I get overtaken and I have like a couple of laps to stay within five seconds of Pierre to keep third.

14:44And like Piastri is like beeping behind me, like I'm blocking in the tunnel, going crazy. And like, yeah, it was just awkward to drive. But yeah, once I finished third, I was like, I was so tired. Mentally, I was so done. But yeah, I was so happy when I was standing there. It was good. And how did that podium compare to Zandvoort last year, which was the first one? What a sentence this is! Isaac Hajar, you are P3! And he started his Formula One career in the barriers on the formation lap. Race 15, he is heading to the podium. Oh my god, no! What have you done?

15:31So yeah, that's my first podium, that one. That's it.

15:38And SoundVolt will always be special because I think it's a weekend where it was probably my first and only 10 out of 10 performance the whole weekend. Perfect qualifying, perfect race pace, zero mistakes, nothing. And then Monaco was different. It's like you bounce back from a very bad start of the weekend. the confidence is that it's lowest after the crash in fp1 and then you have to rebuild around the track like that it's very difficult um yeah i would say zandvoort because you do it in a midfield car it's it's a different story right so talk us through the roller coaster of emotions that follow after monaco right so what is it five days later the stewards rescind pierre's penalties he takes p3 you know i wake up on monday morning i'm happy yeah i'm just i don't care i had my moment sunday was great and then you move on to barcelona it's like taking away from me three points but that's it you know taking away the rest which is the more important stuff for me so then fast forward to monza i i'm guessing you're in a frustrated state of mind because you're not racing yes when the news came through that was good news yeah definitely i was you know it was it was an annoying period you know the trophy is gonna go back to to red bull it's a it's a good thing but you know it was not like it was a high yes moment and not uh zero adrenaline or anything you know it's just it's good and just to be clear the trophy did go between Milton Keynes and Enstone in the UK, depending on who had the podium at that particular moment.

17:29Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I don't get to keep the trophy, but I think it was in Milan at Pierre's home, I think. Okay, he gets to keep the trophy, right? He does. Yeah. Honestly, it's a shitty situation that it's with Pierre. I would have liked it to happen with another driver, you know. But Pierre is my friend. the races come thick and fast now between between now and the year nine nine weeks in 11 weeks yeah nine races yeah 11 weeks yeah that's cool there's not much that's cool right is that how you view it right i mean i had too much of a break now like i i have so much energy i slept so much i have so much to give so if anything i have the edge on the the other guys and then just in terms of your own personal goals how high are you looking yeah i think so far now Now I've been doing a good job at, you know, like being there.

18:23There's still that thing missing. There's a few things that I need to align a bit more. Sometimes it can be a race start that we compromise. Sometimes it's that first in with the heavy car, killing the tires a bit early, being two positions up the grid in qualifying, you're missing half a tenth. And then you have a different Sunday, unfortunately. And it's all these little things you can align like Max does. And then you're in contention. and knowing that you're in the car for 27 does that take a little bit of pressure off i mean i know you like pressure you said that earlier but no i think it's of course you know you have a nice backup you know you're like okay i'm i'm safe but you can't go out there and be like anyway i'm even if i don't perform i'm safe for next year you know it's like if you do that then you should just retire.

19:15I think it's, I always put the pressure on myself to be like, okay, this weekend I need to deliver. I don't want to disappoint myself. And that's always how I approach things. So I'm always under pressure. And what happens on the outside, the external pressure, it's nowhere near the one I put myself in. So you said you've slept a lot. Have you done a lot of training while you've been off as well? Obviously no boxing, but... No. yeah you know it's good to keep the nervous system active you still benefit on the limb you're not training because you're training the whole rest of it so it stays in a reasonable window let's say obviously you haven't been able to cart right go go karting no so how do you stay race sharp you don't you don't is that right no but you can't on monday i was pretty satisfied so and i guess the new contract for 27 has got a few extra clauses in it no boxing no but you know i i don't have any any restrictions sit on the couch exactly that's what the contract is right that's it i don't really have restrictions i think to be honest you know i'm a very careful guy you know i'm 22 soon and i've had one fracture in my whole life and this is it i've always like I don't allow myself since I'm competing like world championships in go-karts to go skiing because I know if I break a knee then I can't compete or anything.

20:47Boxing is something I really like and that I find actually safe in a way. I've been a bit... Not sure about that. I know, but you know, when you're in control and you know what you're doing, you feel safe. That's the most important. And actually, yeah, I messed up. It won't happen again. and itching to get back. Yeah, I know that I'm not made for the couch. I need to go out there and drive. All right, well, look, very best of luck. Merci. Thanks for your time. Hello, appliance fans. I'm here at Grand Appliance, where Bill just bought a premium Bosch Benchmark dishwasher. Talk about your experience, Bill.

21:26My salesperson was an appliance genius. She told me about their free install offer on Benchmark appliances, and it was a done deal for me. Wow. Free install from the Prozac Grand, that's a no-brainer. Agreed. They make it so easy. There you have it. Grand for the win. Check out grandappliance.com for full details.

21:55And we're now joined by Isaac's team principal, Laurel Meckies. Laurel, thank you for your time. He seemed in really good form. cannot wait to get back behind the wheel. Yeah, I think it's a fair assessment. You know, I think it's been a long month for him. If I recall back when the injury happened, I think he already wanted to be back in Zonvoort and obviously that didn't happen. So it's been a very long month, but he has been very good. He has been very disciplined with the doctor and with the recovery. And, you know, I'm sure he told you he did the last scan on Sunday and he was on the simulator on Monday.

22:33so a couple of days ago and we couldn't get him out of the simulator he said something like 100 bucks he just kept driving and we couldn't get him out so I think he's ready he hasn't been wanting to be in the car as much as he wants now so it's good news it's good spirit, it's good energy he said I'm not made for the couch yeah of course he's a racing driver and he's a very fast one and and it's nice to see the energy and the excitement. You've worked with so many drivers over a long career now. Can we just look at the psychology of what he's been going through? You've got your big break with Red Bull Racing and then suddenly halfway through the season, you're forced to sit out three races.

23:22How tough has it been for him? I mean, we talked about it a bit, but just from your perspective. I think there must be a moment where you think is it going to cost me my seat sort of things and you know we have seen a few times in Formula One history that actually it has been a decisive point for a driver or another to lose the seats for a few races we certainly as far as we could Tom we certainly from day one exchanged with him about how big the picture was and the big picture was he has done an amazing first part of the season. He has been progressing every time the car has been going out of the garage, race after race.

24:04And really for us, those three races bent little to nothing compared to trying to develop him, looking into the futures. And it's also why we made a point of confirming him as a race driver today, which very much fit with the fact that we were looking during that month off at the big pictures and prioritizing his full recovery. We'll come on to the new contract in a minute, but just with the wrist, can you remember where you were and what your first thoughts were when you heard what he'd done? I tell you what, I remember exactly because I was on holiday, because it was during the shutdown. You know, it's the sort of thing, the sort of last day of holiday, phone call with the news.

24:49But I tell you what, my first thought when we spoke was he was so confident. He was so much trying to tell me that it was nothing that the first, you know, 10 minutes I thought, you know, it's probably not so much. And then obviously after that phone call, we had a few more and spoke with our medical people and his medical people. And we realized it was a bit more than what the first reaction was. But again, even if it then became apparent that Zandvoort will be challenging. It never felt anything bigger than a small blip into what was a very, very strong season. And to bring him back in Baku, bumpy street track, did you have any reservations about Baku?

25:37Look, our approach from day one was super simple. Either you come back at 100 % or you don't come back on the basis that we don't want to take any compromise on your full recovery. And therefore, the track you are going to doesn't matter because we assume that you will be at 100 % and that you will be taking zero compromise on your full recovery. So as much as when we did the pre-Zandvoort assessment and he came to the simulator a few days after the incident, it was very, very clear that he would not be able to drive in Zandvoort. in the very same way the difficulties we had to get him out of the sim two days ago confirmed to us that we are very sure he's going to drive at 100 % or very close to that in Baku Okay, now the new contract you've talked about the timing I think you were being serious in that now is a good time to reassure him after the three races out is that why you've announced it now?

26:39So at first in fairness to him It was a very easy decision. And we've made very clear every time you guys have been asking us, how is Isaac evolving? We've made very clear that we were very satisfied with the progress, that we were very satisfied with the way he was developing. And hence, we were going towards that easy decisions. We felt it was a good moment to formalize it so that in a moment of a difficult time for him being off the track for a month, he feels once again the full support from the team. How has he evolved from the driver you worked with at the start of last year at Racing Bulls?

27:19You know, I think the most remarkable factor is what we discussed earlier, is that at first in the car he's just getting better every time he goes out of the garage. But in what way? In every way, Tom, he's faster, his technical feedback improves, what he feels from the car improves, his interactions with engineers improve and you know then after you can deep dive into qualifying pace race space tire management all the kpis are improving every time he goes out and and it has been quite a steady progressions you know as opposed to stable for a few races and then a good step forward you know he has been really improving every time so there is nobody in the team that would not want to see where that's going to take him next year.

28:10I mean, Max has now had, I think it's eight teammates in Formula One. There are a lot of people in your racing team who have seen all eight of them. Can you say that Isaac is one of the best or even the best teammate that Max has had? That would be unfair for me to say that because I've only worked with a few of them. So that would be unfair for me to say that. The only thing I can say with high confidence is that the starting point against Max in terms of Delta is very strong, meaning that he has been only a few tens behind. And that more importantly, we see these improvements curve on all the KPI is getting closer.

28:58and perhaps even more importantly, we see his attitude to learning and to improve. You know, he's trying to learn from Max every day. He's trying to work better with the team every day. And when you see that, it gives you high hopes that it's going to get him even closer. One of the things he said to us was he loves the pressure. And I think you're not going to put yourself under greater pressure anywhere in Formula One than being Max Verstappen's teammate. And he seems to be relishing it. Yeah, you know, I think absolutely. I think there is an element which is very often not fully seen from outside, you know, is that these guys, you know, these sort of top drivers, the pressure they put on themselves, on their own, just for their own desire to perform and to be the fastest out there, is a much higher pressure than any things you can read or feel in the media.

29:56So that's why when you think about the pressure that one can feel as being in a record racing in Formula One, Max's teammate, well, actually, Max himself, Isaac, they all put a lot more pressure than that perception on themselves. So what goals have you set, Isaac, between now and the end of the year? I tell you what, if we were continuing to see that progression, that would be fully, you know, that would be a fully successful season for him. You know, it could be the case, Tom, that we see a period where we don't see him progressing that regularly as he did in the first part of the season. You don't always progress in the same way through the months or through the years.

30:41so to your question if we were seeing in that second part of the season especially now after the month of break if we were seeing more improvements it will really give us you know it will really put us into the category of a very strong season and will give certainly a lot of impatience to see how it develops into next year Brilliant and Laurent final one if I can bigger picture at Red Bull Racing now you've got both drivers under contract for next year you've got a new engineer coming in in Tom McCulloch who has huge experience in what is a sort of transformative year I think for the team maybe you disagree with that description but where are you in the rebuild now do you feel that you've you're close to getting everything that you need to turn Red Bull Racing back into that race winning force again we certainly don't like the rebuild term you know because it's easy to forget that we finished two points from the driver title last year but what we do not forget is that we had the incredible adventure of the power unit debut which was a phenomenal you know achievements to be in the fight we do not forget that we have not been able to have the fastest car this year And therefore, as competitors, we do adjust, we do analyze, to your point, we do analyze what do we need to get back to be in a position to have the fastest car.

32:13We don't call it a rebuild, but we certainly, it's a very dynamic team. and Pierre for the chassis side, Ben for the power unit side. They drive their team every day with the quest for perfection and quest for improvement that makes it a never-ending dynamic. And therefore, it's not a rebuild, but it's certainly not a static place. Okay, Laurent, thank you very much for your time. Great to chat. Thank you.

32:50Thank you, Laurent, and thank you to Isaac. I really enjoyed both of these conversations, and as ever, I learned a lot. Isaac is burning with desire, isn't he? So hungry to learn and to succeed, and Laurent, you sense, knows his driver incredibly well and will give him all the support he needs. Good luck, guys, and thank you again for your time. Now, before I go, a couple of parish notices for you. Don't forget to check out F1's other official podcasts. F1 Nation's review of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix is out now. And the latest episode of F1 Explains features F3 champion Ugo Ugochukwu and F2 technical director Pierre-Alain Michaud talking about their new car for 2027.

33:35That's also on the F1 Nation feed right now. Thanks very much for listening. I will, of course, be back next week with another big name from the world of Formula 1. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.